Specialties for people with "Aspergers"?

[Arkangeloid]

I was talking with my psychiatrist about this the other day, and she mentioned that in the past, many med students with Asperger-like symptoms (technically DSM-V removed the diagnosis I believe) chose careers in Pathology or Radiology. I've even heard that some med school deans nudged them towards such careers.

It makes sense: they have minimal patient contact. But I was wondering: with the job market for both those fields in the crapper, what field should an Asperger-ish med student choose now?

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[Kahreek]

dont be stereotyped, Ark bro, go for whatever you like. For instance Primary Care can be great for you, maybe you've pursued medicine so you can have special relations with people around you, be noted and thanked for, make a difference and to grow out of the Aspie zone.
you can go to pathology or rads or many other fields, but you may risk feeling a patent soul void.
Dont burn your bridges just to get away.

 

[DermViser]

I was talking with my psychiatrist about this the other day, and she mentioned that in the past, many med students with Asperger-like symptoms (technically DSM-V removed the diagnosis I believe) chose careers in Pathology or Radiology. I've even heard that some med school deans nudged them towards such careers.

It makes sense: they have minimal patient contact. But I was wondering: with the job market for both those fields in the crapper, what field should an Asperger-ish med student choose now?

Pathology doesn't have as bad a market depending on the residency program you come from. Radiology is also the same way. You don't have to go to a top-tier residency in either field.

I think you have to look inside yourself and see what specifically about patient contact that you hate. I know people in Radiology who liked being around people and were very friendly to people, but hated patient care and the clinical BS you have to do on IM (for example) - these are people who will never cure, pretty much never listen to your recommendations, etc. Medicine is sometimes much more glamorous in the textbooks than real life. It's very easy to hate MS-3 clerkships and end up liking areas of medicine you're never exposed to.

 

[DermViser]

dont be stereotyped, Ark bro, go for whatever you like. For instance Primary Care can be great for you, maybe you've pursued medicine so you can have special relations with people around you, be noted and thanked for, make a difference and to grow out of the Aspie zone. you can go to pathology or rads or many other fields, but you may risk feeling a patent soul void.
Dont burn your bridges just to get away.

-- -- --

Sorry, but people don't just "grow out" of Asperger's.

 

[dermaway]

If you are socially inept, definitely pathology is the best option, with radiology being a second. I guess what you choose depends on how well you do in school.

But really, people on the autism spectrum aren't necessarily incapable of human interaction so you shouldn't limit yourself based on that.

 

[Screwtape]

Any of them? I am sure you could find a successful doctor with Aspergers in any specialty.

 

[TheWeeIceMan]

Didn't you want to do Psych or something? If you still want that, I wouldn't let someone convince you that you would "fit" better with a different specialty.

 

[DermViser]

Any of them? I am sure you could find a successful doctor with Aspergers in any specialty.

I think it depends on how well a person can mask it. I imagine though that convincing yourself that you like patients (people) when you don't can be a problem, esp. when you have a take an H&P, deal with their quibbles, etc.

 

[dermaway]

I think it depends on how well a person can mask it. I imagine though that convincing yourself that you like patients (people) when you don't can be a problem, esp. when you have a take an H&P, deal with their quibbles, etc.

Yeah this is definitely true. I am definitely somewhere on the autism spectrum but can mask it well and hopefully all of dermatologists i have worked with haven't noticed or else i am screwed

 

[chillaxbro]

I'm a bit awkward myself

How did you manage to get past the med school interviews? Did you make any friends in med school?

I have no advice but I'm glad I'm not the only one

 

[DermViser]

Yeah this is definitely true. I am definitely somewhere on the autism spectrum but can mask it well and hopefully all of dermatologists i have worked with haven't noticed or else i am screwed

I think it's easier in Derm bc your interaction with people isn't for extended long periods of time. It's very narrowly focused, people aren't usually complaining a lot like in an inpatient setting, and want to be in and then out, and you move on to the next patient. The ones that still hate patients even after all that go on to Dermpath, I guess. lol.

 

[DermViser]

I'm a bit awkward myself

How did you manage to get past the med school interviews? Did you make any friends in med school?

I have no advice but I'm glad I'm not the only one

Medical school interviews are Kabuki theater. There so many resources on how to get past a med school interview it doesn't really mean anything anymore. Even this new MMI thing has books written on it, on how to do well on it.

 

[Arkangeloid]

I'm a bit awkward myself

How did you manage to get past the med school interviews? Did you make any friends in med school?

I have no advice but I'm glad I'm not the only one

I think that all my gaming helped me immensely in this regard. Playing various RPG games helped me start to see talking to people as a dialogue tree from such a game, which made it easier to get through them. Also, I interacted socially with many people in games such as League of Legends, both through voice chat and through various IRC channels. Finally, gaming has given me something to enjoy and celebrate when I don't have much else in my life.

As for the med school interviews, I prepared answers to all the common questions. It's a game, it's just a real life RPG complete with dialogue trees you can figure out beforehand. "Why you," "why medicine," "why our school," you'll get those everywhere. Then prepare a few talking points about your extracurriculars, and have robust answers for any shortcomings on your application, and that's the gist of it.

As for making friends, I've made a surprising amount of friends so far in medical school.

 

[Mad Jack]

I've worked with people that were less socially adept (for various reasons, be it Asperger's, shyness, or just a straight up lack of social skills) in a lot of specialties. You don't need to be a social butterfly to be a hospitalist or a critical care attending- it helps to have solid social skills, but I've met plenty of people that got by fine without. The biggest thing is just not coming off as a jerk- you don't need to be likable, but you definitely cannot be dislikable if you're working with a lot of people.

You may not be the greatest at social interactions, but if you're anything like you are online in the real world, you're probably the likable sort of socially awkward. One of the guys in my social circle is like that- really not normal in any way socially but everyone likes him anyway because he's a good and genuine person. Just accept what you are and learn to work with it (sounds like you are doing a good enough job of that as is) and don't let anyone else's judgments limit you from picking the field that you feel to be right for yourself.

 

[DermViser]

I've worked with people that were less socially adept (for various reasons, be it Asperger's, shyness, or just a straight up lack of social skills) in a lot of specialties. You don't need to be a social butterfly to be a hospitalist or a critical care attending- it helps to have solid social skills, but I've met plenty of people that got by fine without. The biggest thing is just not coming off as a jerk- you don't need to be likable, but you definitely cannot be dislikable if you're working with a lot of people.

You may not be the greatest at social interactions, but if you're anything like you are online in the real world, you're probably the likable sort of socially awkward. One of the guys in my social circle is like that- really not normal in any way socially but everyone likes him anyway because he's a good and genuine person. Just accept what you are and learn to work with it (sounds like you are doing a good enough job of that as is) and don't let anyone else's judgments limit you from picking the field that you feel to be right for yourself.

That's the problem. You have to be sociable in order to function in those fields. Many times the "jerk" label will be put on those people with those deficiences. That's a definite red flag and will hinder you in MS-3 (esp. on OB-Gyn and Surgery where residents are not cheery and are sleep deprived), residency, and as an attending.

 

[Arkangeloid]

That's the problem. You have to be sociable in order to function in those fields. Many times the "jerk" label will be put on those people with those deficiences. That's a definite red flag and will hinder you in MS-3 (esp. on OB-Gyn and Surgery where residents are not cheery and are sleep deprived), residency, and as an attending.

The more I hear about OB-GYN, the more afraid I get. It must be a truly horrible thing.

I'd already written off Surgery a while back, but I thought that was the worst part of med school. Yet I hear a crapton of stuff about OB-GYN.

 

[DermViser]

The more I hear about OB-GYN, the more afraid I get. It must be a truly horrible thing.

I'd already written off Surgery a while back, but I thought that was the worst part of med school. Yet I hear a crapton of stuff about OB-GYN.

I wouldn't be afraid of them. I would just be aware of how you come off, bc female OB-Gyn residents can tend to be like really mean girls in a sorority: passive-aggressive, catty, gossipy, etc. Also if you have a male OB-Gyn resident, cling to them for dear life. It's usually 8 weeks and after that's over.

 

[PL198]

The more I hear about OB-GYN, the more afraid I get. It must be a truly horrible thing.

I'd already written off Surgery a while back, but I thought that was the worst part of med school. Yet I hear a crapton of stuff about OB-GYN.

Don't completely write stuff off before you try it. It's 1 thing to be like " well I probably won't like OB" and another to be like " OB is pretty f*cked up" if you haven't experienced it yet. Not necessarily meaning just OB, just saying there might be something that you go nuts over, that you never really even thought about.

 

[DermViser]

Don't completely write stuff off before you try it. It's 1 thing to be like " well I probably won't like OB" and another to be like " OB is pretty f*cked up" if you haven't experienced it yet. Not necessarily meaning just OB, just saying there might be something that you go nuts over, that you never really even thought about.

I think he's more referring to the notorious residents in that specialty, not the subject matter itself.

 

[greenlion]

Kind of depends on the severity of his asperger's doesn't it?

Can you greet people with relative ease (a sincere smile and a 'hello') or do you get too lost in your own thoughts/have an urge to go "undetected"?

 

[Kahreek]

-- -- --

Sorry, but people don't just "grow out" of Asperger's.

the people who do the DSM did.

 

[evilbooyaa]

I think he's more referring to the notorious residents in that specialty, not the subject matter itself.

He's referring to the 'notorious residents' based on what he's read in these forums. Not every OB-GYN resident is a complete a-hole. A lot of them actually mean pretty well, and there is a sense of reverse sexism that although the guys on OB/Gyn generally get to do less, they are treated better by the residents (ancedotally) than the female medical students.

 

[LivingEdge]

Dude, this is medicine. You are in probably the second spergiest profession next to engineering. Look around. 10% of your campus are overt frat boys. The other 90% seems to walk around in sweat pants and sandals with a faded Sonic the Hedgehog shirt they've had since 8th grade. They look like they weigh about 130 pounds soaking wet. They have huge glasses and pronounced thoracic kyphosis from staring at computers and books 25 hours a day since age zero. They use internet memes when they talk to each other.

What I'm trying to say is relax, having a psychiatric diagnosis for being a giant insufferable socially awkward nerd with OCD-like symptoms just means that you belong in medicine. If anything's really that poor of a fit then you'll find out in rotations and know not to apply to it.

 

[Arkangeloid]

Dude, this is medicine. You are in probably the second spergiest profession next to engineering. Look around. 10% of your campus are overt frat boys. The other 90% seems to walk around in sweat pants and sandals with a faded Sonic the Hedgehog shirt they've had since 8th grade. They look like they weigh about 130 pounds soaking wet. They have huge glasses and pronounced thoracic kyphosis from staring at computers and books 25 hours a day since age zero. They use internet memes when they talk to each other.

What I'm trying to say is relax, having a psychiatric diagnosis for being a giant insufferable socially awkward nerd with OCD-like symptoms just means that you belong in medicine. If anything's really that poor of a fit then you'll find out in rotations and know not to apply to it.

Here it's like 60%+ overt fratboys and dudes who lift. I was shocked when I came here too.

 

[touchpause13]

Here it's like 60%+ overt fratboys and dudes who lift. I was shocked when I came here too.

Not sure what your definition of fratbros is

 

[Arkangeloid]

Not sure what your definition of fratbros is

Muscular party dudes.

To be fair, the "fratbros" here are significantly more erudite and eloquent than their counterparts back at my state school, whose vocabulary was limited to describing their drinking and sexual conquests.

 

[touchpause13]

Muscular party dudes.

To be fair, the "fratbros" here are significantly more erudite and eloquent than their counterparts back at my state school, whose vocabulary was limited to describing their drinking and sexual conquests.

I see.

The stereotypical fratbros are much more like what you described at your state school. That's the type that comes to my mind when someone says "fratbro" and I have a feeling those types of guys aren't super common in med school. At least I hope not!

 

[PsychPod]

Here it's like 60%+ overt fratboys and dudes who lift. I was shocked when I came here too.

Since money is shriveling up in high level finance, consulting, business in general and the like, those types are more likely to pursue medicine now. IMO.

 

[Arkangeloid]

I see.

The stereotypical fratbros are much more like what you described at your state school. That's the type that comes to my mind when someone says "fratbro" and I have a feeling those types of guys aren't super common in med school. At least I hope not!

There's like 3 people in my class who fit that description to a T. But there are a crapton of muscular party dudes, and female counterparts to them. I think medical students concern themselves with their fitness significantly more than normal people.

 

[DermViser]

There's like 3 people in my class who fit that description to a T. But there are a crapton of muscular party dudes, and female counterparts to them. I think medical students concern themselves with their fitness significantly more than normal people.

I think also for a lot of "muscular party dudes" exercise, weight training, eating right, etc., is really such a huge stress reliever for them that they do it religiously. It's a vicious cycle, and they obviously benefit from it.

 

[LivingEdge]

I see.

The stereotypical fratbros are much more like what you described at your state school. That's the type that comes to my mind when someone says "fratbro" and I have a feeling those types of guys aren't super common in med school. At least I hope not!

We call them "pre-surgery."

 

[Amba]

There's like 3 people in my class who fit that description to a T. But there are a crapton of muscular party dudes, and female counterparts to them. I think medical students concern themselves with their fitness significantly more than normal people.

Ark - do you dislike these types of people? Or do you envy them? Maybe a bit of both? Those are honest questions and from reading your previous posts, it may be something for you to think about a bit.

 

[evilbooyaa]

Ark - do you dislike these types of people? Or do you envy them? Maybe a bit of both? Those are honest questions and from reading your previous posts, it may be something for you to think about a bit.

He clearly envies those "fratbros" b/c they're the ones that are getting chicks. Or in Ark's native language, "Going ham on bishes"

 

[LivingEdge]

@Amba - yeah, seems like Ark would do well to hit the gym a little bit himself. Whether or not he really is, he comes off as threatened.

 

[touchpause13]

There's like 3 people in my class who fit that description to a T. But there are a crapton of muscular party dudes, and female counterparts to them. I think medical students concern themselves with their fitness significantly more than normal people.

Aren't those the guys you are trying to emulate though? Do you hate them or want to be them?

 

[SouthernSurgeon]

I see.

The stereotypical fratbros are much more like what you described at your state school. That's the type that comes to my mind when someone says "fratbro" and I have a feeling those types of guys aren't super common in med school. At least I hope not!

Every time Ark describes "fratbros" I'm more and more convinced that these are just normal, sociable men.

 

[LivingEdge]

I'm not gonna criticize but I feel like OP needs a bit more life experience or maybe a few more male friends for the vibe I get from the 'fratbro' talk.

Granted I'm not really that social and am often overtly antisocial, and I certainly don't like to hang out with the party/drinking crowd at all, ever, but I am getting a vibe of jealousy and intimidation from all this.

It's possible OP needs some "bro lessons" to learn how to succeed in different social settings than he's used to. Again - not every setting is ideal for every person, but it's good to know how to succeed in every setting so you can get to a position to pick and choose.

 

[Arkangeloid]

Ark - do you dislike these types of people? Or do you envy them? Maybe a bit of both? Those are honest questions and from reading your previous posts, it may be something for you to think about a bit.

I used to lift a lot more regularly than I do now. Even though I had some muscularity, I could not measure up to the frat guys, the guys I hoped to emulate.

To be honest, it didn't bother me back in undergrad. I think I drew a fair amount of my self-esteem from my success in school, and all the sexual conquests and weekly screams of "YOLO" from the guys on frat row could not take that away from me.

And then medical school came. And then I had to confront the fact that not only was I in poor shape compared to my classmates, but I was also at the bottom of the class. So what did I have to be happy about?

This was one of the reasons that I started my blog, so I could have something to celebrate and feel happy about: gaming.

I think it will help to start exercising more. And yes, I guess you could say that I do sorta envy these dudes. Who wouldn't?

 

[DermViser]

Every time Ark describes "fratbros" I'm more and more convinced that these are just normal, sociable men.

Yeah, me too. I think his interpretation of what he sees, isn't really what the reality of it might be (obvi by now).

 

[DermViser]

I used to lift a lot more regularly than I do now. Even though I had some muscularity, I could not measure up to the frat guys, the guys I hoped to emulate.

To be honest, it didn't bother me back in undergrad. I think I drew a fair amount of my self-esteem from my success in school, and all the sexual conquests and weekly screams of "YOLO" from the guys on frat row could not take that away from me.

And then medical school came. And then I had to confront the fact that not only was I in poor shape compared to my classmates, but I was also at the bottom of the class. So what did I have to be happy about?

This was one of the reasons that I started my blog, so I could have something to celebrate and feel happy about: gaming.

I think it will help to start exercising more. And yes, I guess you could say that I do sorta envy these dudes. Who wouldn't?

Or you could, I don't know, actually make friends? No, no, that's to easy. No, all those muscle bound "frat boys" are living the high life with bishes on each arm while you're just at home studying your course packs.

 

[evilbooyaa]

Or you could, I don't know, actually make friends? No, no, that's to easy. No, all those muscle bound "frat boys" are living the high life with bishes on each arm while you're just at home studying your course packs.

If you don't put that word in quotation marks, I'm scared that you're not using it sarcastically.

 

[DermViser]

If you don't put that word in quotation marks, I'm scared that you're not using it sarcastically.

I think it's safe to assume on SDN, that besides Ark, anyone who uses the word, "bishes" and "hammin" is definitely being sarcastic. I'll be sure to use the quotes to clear any confusion, though.

 

[greenlion]

Well, you don't need "muscularity" to get girls. Lies work just as well. At least in my city- 30-37% of the population is below the poverty line. That means there's plenty of pretty girls who would love to marry a nice, smart doctor. Now titles like "heart surgeon" or "neurosurgeon" are a bit too on the nose. So I go with vascular surgeon at the bars. (I recommend surgery because it perks interest more than medicine.) Then I explain to them what vascular means with a bunch of medical jargon about this and that. Hook line and sinker. Swear to god I've gotten 3 (very hot) girls in bed this way in just 8 tries.

 

[PL198]

Well, you don't need "muscularity" to get girls. Lies work just as well. At least in my city- 30-37% of the population is below the poverty line. That means there's plenty of pretty girls who would love to marry a nice, smart doctor. Now titles like "heart surgeon" or "neurosurgeon" are a bit too on the nose. So I go with vascular surgeon at the bars. (I recommend surgery because it perks interest more than medicine.) Then I explain to them what vascular means with a bunch of medical jargon about this and that. Hook line and sinker. Swear to god I've gotten 3 (very hot) girls in bed this way in just 8 tries.

Or you could just not lie to get with girls and have them be interested in you, for idk being you... Although if you feel you need to lie about being a surgeon to get them, you probably don't have the confidence to do that anyway.

 

[PL198]

I've never understood the whole lying to get girls concept. Like there's two longitudinal potentials for interaction with the opposite sex:
A) One night stands, in which I have no idea why a woman would care the status of the man. I'd assume these are almost based solely on attraction(be it physical,mental,emotional etc), seeing as there's no interaction past that night, and I don't think women empty their purses at the end of every month and are like " This month I got with 2 docs, Rads and Ortho, and a physicist, you only got with 1 doctor and 2 teachers, so I win." I'm sure someone will say that status is appealing and yeah I guess, but I still say it's negligible for short term interaction and it's attraction is more based on providing successfully in the long term, which obviously isn't valid in this situation.
B) Long term relationships, so you just started a long term relationship off with a lie. I wonder how that one will go.

Either way, you're f*cked, and it's a terrible idea. But hey I guess I'm just old fashioned about truly representing myself.

 

[greenlion]

Or you could just not lie to get with girls and have them be interested in you, for idk being you... Although if you feel you need to lie about being a surgeon to get them, you probably don't have the confidence to do that anyway.

fool, I will easily be a surgeon if I choose to. I'm just not there yet, call it a chronological handicap. You can feel superior to me if you want to though based on whatever subjective criteria. And for the record- surgeon isn't what I would personally consider impressive. If I had my way I would have stayed in my original field (IBD at Bear Stearns).

 

[PL198]

fool, I will easily be a surgeon if I choose to. I'm just not there yet, call it a chronological handicap. You can feel superior to me if you want to though based on whatever subjective criteria. And for the record- surgeon isn't what I would personally consider impressive. If I had my way I would have stayed in my original field (IBD at Bear Stearns).

Key word, you will. You aren't now. But hey, let me go introduce myself as a radiologist, because in like 9 years I'll probably get to practice as one. no go on that one.

It's not about what you consider impressive, you do it for a reason- because you think others will. way to get defensive about it though.

 

[circulus vitios]

The correct answer is OBGYN.

 

[greenlion]

Key word, you will. You aren't now. But hey, let me go introduce myself as a radiologist, because in like 9 years I'll probably get to practice as one. no go on that one.

It's not about what you consider impressive, you do it for a reason- because you think others will. way to get defensive about it though.

Are you serious? Have you never been to a club? FYI the Bentley parked out front is a rental and the guys getting bottle service aren't rap stars.

Bold: Didn't I just say as much genius? yes, because others (the girls in my particular city) consider it impressive.

 

[DermViser]

fool, I will easily be a surgeon if I choose to. I'm just not there yet, call it a chronological handicap. You can feel superior to me if you want to though based on whatever subjective criteria. And for the record- surgeon isn't what I would personally consider impressive. If I had my way I would have stayed in my original field (IBD at Bear Stearns).