Stacker and other "male supplements"

[SpecterGT260]

I just saw a commercial with a Dr Jacob Rosenstein (neurosurgeon) who had "discovered the secret to restoring testosterone to older men"


Questions: wtf is a neurosurgeon doing looking into testosterone? (Besides the obvious "he wasn't")

Also... I thought testosterone was a primary reason why men have a lower life expectancy then women. They tout the "health benefits" of testosterone replacement (and although they probably don't affect levels much) is this an example of something that, if it did what it advertised, would actually hurt you? Kinda like homeopathys law of infinitesimals

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[tiedyeddog]

I just saw a commercial with a Dr Jacob Rosenstein (neurosurgeon) who had "discovered the secret to restoring testosterone to older men"


Questions: wtf is a neurosurgeon doing looking into testosterone? (Besides the obvious "he wasn't")

Also... I thought testosterone was a primary reason why men have a lower life expectancy then women. They tout the "health benefits" of testosterone replacement (and although they probably don't affect levels much) is this an example of something that, if it did what it advertised, would actually hurt you? Kinda like homeopathys law of infinitesimals

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[SpecterGT260]

Well ya that was the obvious part
My interest was to actually get some facts about these proposed mechanisms. If you guys haven't noticed I kinda like debunking snake oil
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[Nymphicus]

 

[Rothbard]

nm

 

[MichaelPhelps]

I just saw a commercial with a Dr Jacob Rosenstein (neurosurgeon) who had "discovered the secret to restoring testosterone to older men"


Questions: wtf is a neurosurgeon doing looking into testosterone? (Besides the obvious "he wasn't")

Also... I thought testosterone was a primary reason why men have a lower life expectancy then women. They tout the "health benefits" of testosterone replacement (and although they probably don't affect levels much) is this an example of something that, if it did what it advertised, would actually hurt you? Kinda like homeopathys law of infinitesimals

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???

Testosterone is essential, bro. Having decreased or low test is a bad thing.

 

[SpecterGT260]

???

Testosterone is essential, bro. Having decreased or low test is a bad thing.

What's w all the bro-hards on this forum lately?

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[Asp]

They should legalize testosterone and human growth hormone. They are amazing.

 

[pkwraith]

low testosterone is positively correlated with mortality

no one really knows why men live longer than women

What? What is this I don't even

 

[SpecterGT260]

low testosterone is positively correlated with mortality

no one really knows why men live longer than women

seriously I cant even believe you are actually a med student anymore....

every time you post the content is nearly 180 degrees opposite the truth.

Women live longer than men.


As for the correlation, I wasn't quite sure. I had seen evidence that suggests that testosterone itself may cause early death across species - however the confounder was the aggression and general "dumb s***" guys do when amped up on the stuff. To be fair, even if it [the commercial for the OP] is making a legitimate claim in terms of health benefits and testosterone, the majority of the point was some sell-out neurosurgeon who is promoting it. I suspect a failing practice with this guy plastering his face all over such products.

 

[tiedyeddog]

???

Testosterone is essential, bro. Having decreased or low test is a bad thing.

Thanks for the knowledge drop broheim, why don't you stick to swimming and looking ugly?

no one really knows why men live longer than women

srs?

 

[tiedyeddog]

the majority of the point was some sell-out neurosurgeon who is promoting it. I suspect a failing practice with this guy plastering his face all over such products.

I don't think he necessarily has to have a struggling practice. Money is money, some people will do anything for more of it even if they have a Scrooge McDuck style money pool waiting for them at home.

 

[SpecterGT260]

srs?

keep in mind..... he "practiced" homeopathy before "attending med school"....... It is the basis of my hightened distaste for this poster as many of his posts I view as not only ignorant, but dangerous as he can potentially slap an MD label onto the claims to support them. In essence, he and those like him are exactly why I posted this thread about this doctor in the first place.

 

[SpecterGT260]

I don't think he necessarily has to have a struggling practice. Money is money, some people will do anything for more of it even if they have a Scrooge McDuck style money pool waiting for them at home.

I know.... its my idealistic side that likes to believe that one would not stoop so low and would just make a fortune off of doing and loving the thing he was trained to do
still though, it makes me think that the average person is literally 2 degrees above ******ed if they are swayed by the marketing rhetoric that decided slapping a doctor on their product wasnt enough. We got a neurosurgeon! Why on earth didnt they get an endocrinologist? wtf does neurosurgery have to do with this?

basically, when I see the commercial, I do this

we got another gem on our HD channels - Colon Flow. Their CGI actually shows a colon voiding. Great marketing strategy for dinner time guys

 

[tiedyeddog]

keep in mind..... he "practice" homeopathy before "attending med school"....... It is the basis of my hightened distaste for this poster as many of his posts I view as not only ignorant, but dangerous as he can potentially slap an MD label onto the claims to support them. In essence, he and those like him are exactly why I posted this thread about this doctor in the first place.

I understand where you are coming from but they are within the limits of the law to do so. I think this cheapens how the lay public looks at our field, but I think the real problem here is in the legal classification and control surrounding non-FDA approved supplements and treatments.

I think we as professionals should be doing more to promote stricter (or any?) laws surrounding supplements. There will always be peddlers of this crap, regardless if an M.D. backs it or not, unless we change the laws.

 

[tiedyeddog]

I know.... its my idealistic side that likes to believe that one would not stoop so low and would just make a fortune off of doing and loving the thing he was trained to do
still though, it makes me think that the average person is literally 2 degrees above ******ed if they are swayed by the marketing rhetoric that decided slapping a doctor on their product wasnt enough. We got a neurosurgeon! Why on earth didnt they get an endocrinologist? wtf does neurosurgery have to do with this?

basically, when I see the commercial, I do this

we got another gem on our HD channels - Colon Flow. Their CGI actually shows a colon voiding. Great marketing strategy for dinner time guys

My guess:
1. Dude is probably getting some burnout/wants to retire and have a fallback plan. Why not peddle supplements! Kind of genius, if you ask me.

2. The lay public has faith in anything compressed into a pill format and aren't educated in anyway in how drugs and supplements are legally controlled. Plus people are stupid and lazy. Bam, horrible combo.

3. Not sure if more than half of the US population has any idea what an endocrinologist does, or if you have to have an M.D. or D.O. to be one. Everyone knows what a neurosurgeon does, and hey, they must be smart if they work on the organ that keeps the smart!

 

[SpecterGT260]

I understand where you are coming from but they are within the limits of the law to do so. I think cheapens how the lay public looks at our field, but I think the real problem here is in the legal classification and control surrounding non-FDA approved supplements and treatments.

I think we as a professional should be doing more to promote stricter (or any?) laws surrounding supplements. There will always be peddlers of this kind of crap, regardless if an M.D. backs it or not, unless we change the laws.

that is exactly why it bothers me so much. like comparing a 92 VW Jetta to a Corvette..... yes, both have 4 wheels, a steering wheel, and are in fact cars. Must be the same thing - said the lay person to his homeopath..

 

[Shnurek]

The neurosurgeon on that commercial looks like he has his mouth botox'd along with a guido tan. He looks and acts weird as hell if you ask me. Someone I wouldn't want to chill with. Coincidentally an ophtho that I worked for also altered her body in unnatural ways. What's with docs and their fascination of tampering with nature? Its not attractive and just makes the person look like a tool.

[YOUTUBE]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7KslCYz0VO8&t=39s[/YOUTUBE]

 

[KinasePro]

Testosterone deficiency is a legit medical problem in aging men. It can cause osteoporosis, gynecomastia, decreased muscle mass, and a variety of lifestyle problems (libido, energy, mood). I don't know much more about it, but here is a urologist from BID who is one of the current thought leaders on this topic. Also not sure what the incidence of legitimate testosterone deficiency is.

Anyway, this supplement is clearly snake oil and the neurosurgeon is a sell out. He must be a Dr.Oz fan.

 

[Ballints]

Testosterone deficiency is a legit medical problem in aging men. It can cause osteoporosis, gynecomastia, decreased muscle mass, and a variety of lifestyle problems (libido, energy, mood). I don't know much more about it, but here is a urologist from BID who is one of the current thought leaders on this topic. Also not sure what the incidence of legitimate testosterone deficiency is.

Anyway, this supplement is clearly snake oil and the neurosurgeon is a sell out. He must be a Dr.Oz fan.

hm how is he similar to Dr Oz? I never really watched his shows and a few google hits of his "recommendations" seem very pseudoscientific, but not fraudulent... Most doctors give you unscientific advice such as "rice" if they dont know the cause of back pain or "antibiotics" if you have a cough, so it's not new. And Dr Oz is a tv personality (with a successful career as a surgeon besides that), not some snake oil salesman.

I did see this commercial. While there is nothing unusual about a doctor promoting snake oil. I found it astonishing how he said something like "I am 60 and I look so young. I am in better shape than my sons". Maybe his sons are quadriplegics? But he definitely looks much older than my dad. And my dad never worked out in his life.

As for testosterone: most elderly people are worried about prostate cancer, going bald, etc. Is testosterone bad for your heart? I'd have to search pubmed for that, but does it really matter? If you want testosterone or hgh, wouldnt you be better off getting the real thing?

 

[KinasePro]

As for testosterone: most elderly people are worried about prostate cancer, going bald, etc. Is testosterone bad for your heart? I'd have to search pubmed for that, but does it really matter? If you want testosterone or hgh, wouldnt you be better off getting the real thing?

From what I've seen, testosterone replacement is often given as patches or gels (Androderm or Androgel) and requires a prescription. It's basically the same formulation that would be given to an adolescent with hypogonadism or some other HP-axis abnormality.

If I remember correctly, testosterone replacement for elderly men is given when they're symptomatic and their serum testosterone levels drop to pre-pubertal amounts. The side effects are probably negligible if serum levels are physiologic, although they sometimes have symptoms of a "second puberty." The value of all of this is playing itself out in the EBM literature... I think urologists and endocrinologists are running most of the trials.

 

[Rothbard]

nm

 

[SpecterGT260]

He was responding to your claim that men live longer. They don't. And you should feel bad for saying so

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[deleted393595]

It's apparently too hard for people to go to the gym and engage in good hypertrophic exercises (weightlifting)....

 

[dr zaius]

It's apparently too hard for people to go to the gym and engage in good hypertrophic exercises (weightlifting)....

It's been too hard for a long time [heh heh]. That's why tons of people throw their money at products like this without hesitation.

To the question of harm in the OP: low testosterone can cause some of the symptoms mentioned earlier: mood issues, sexual issues, decreased muscle mass, osteoporosis, etc. and can be treated by a physician. Part of that treatment is monitoring testosterone levels. If testosterone levels are increased to much higher than normal physiologic values you start getting the side effects of anabolic steroids: psychosis, gynecomastia, big penis, small testicles, acne, the list goes on.

 

[bad virus]

lol, Dr. Rosenstein is 56.

This means he probably just finished his residency.

Oh and I am surprised all you bros did not catch on to the fact that the broheim was messing around/trolling.

Mirin all of yall real hard bros.

Just keep on keeping on.

 

[calvnandhobbs68]

It's apparently too hard for people to go to the gym and engage in good hypertrophic exercises (weightlifting)....

Bro how are you supposed to get jacked without a test booster? Don't worry though, if you walk in your local GNC you'll find about 20 in nice shiny bottles staring you in the face.

Because you know, 20 year olds definitely need more testosterone.

 

[Asp]

Many people fibd it difficult to gain suffocoent muscle without pharmaceutixal help. Even christian boeving uses and he isbt tht huge. What most ppl consider finess model level physique can only be achieved with help of deugs. Natural bodybuildibg is overrated

 

[tiedyeddog]

http://scholar.google.com/scholar?hl=en&q=testosterone+mortality&btnG=&as_sdt=1,31&as_sdtp=

cheers

What does this have to do with your statement about men living longer than women? You linked a google search totally unrelated to that statement I was questioning....

 

[Rothbard]

nm

 

[Gnomo]

Undergrad at JHU, medical school at JHU (AOA), residency at UTSW. Chief resident of neurological surgery. Fellowship in England. Very impressive.

I don't think this guy is hurting for money so why devalue the MD (and lose credibility) by doing this? He wants even more money?

http://www.vitals.com/doctors/Dr_Jacob_Rosenstein

 

[Stacker]

As much as I would love to help you with your problems in bed, eating me on a frequent regimen won't help any.

 

[TeaKae]

Many people fibd it difficult to gain suffocoent muscle without pharmaceutixal help. Even christian boeving uses and he isbt tht huge. What most ppl consider finess model level physique can only be achieved with help of deugs. Natural bodybuildibg is overrated

Most people don't know anything beyond the very basics of weight training, either. To get fitness model physique, the workouts are about half the equation. The rest involves strict dietary control. The help of drugs is not NEEDED.