Standardized Patients

Discover Your Odds of Getting into Medical School
This forum made possible through the generous support of SDN members, donors, and sponsors. Thank you.
O

o4i

New Member
10+ Year Member
Joined
Mar 3, 2013
Messages
1
Reaction score
0
Does anyone else think there is something a little weird about people getting paid to get rectal and genital exams? Getting paid to have your private parts examined seems a bit strange to me.
Members don't see this ad.
 
Members don't see this ad :)
I think a lot of them are volunteers. I guess you really gotta love what you do.
 
At my institution the people that work as standardized patients and the people that work as TAs/models for the genital exams are different, and we never perform the more "embarrassing" exams on SPs.

Many of these people do it because they have a personal interest in either the subject matter or teaching medical students. It isn't uncommon, for example, for the women that serve as TAs (i.e., the women we practice on and critique our technique) for our breast exam to have known someone that has had breast cancer. Maybe the man serving as your prostate exam TA/SP has a brother who passed away from undetected prostate cancer and this is the TA's way of sorting through that grief. There's absolutely no way I'd do any of that, but many of them have legitimate reasons for doing what they do. You should be thankful for the opportunity because without it you get to look like a complete ***** in front of someone who has absolutely no interest in having these exams performed on them, much less by someone who has no idea what's going on. It's not all about "LOL SOME PERSON TOUCH MY PEE PEE."
 
TheShaker said:
I think a lot of them are volunteers. I guess you really gotta love what you do.
Click to expand...

I don't think so. The ones that volunteer for the "sensitive" exams are paid handsomely. I am thankful towards them as well. Would be extremely hard to learn some of the physical exam stuff on sick patients or simulators. I like that I can be told what I am doing wrong/right in real time from someone who has been examined 100s of times.
 
The standardized patient who lets us perform the GU exam on him wanted to give back to the medical profession because his cancer of the rectum was found early due to a rectal exam.

SPs are some of the nicest individuals you'll find and it's an honor to be able to practice on them.
 
I was just thinking about this same subject the other day. I am very grateful to those willing to do this, paid or not. I could never do it, and wouldn't want my wife to either. Lol
 
They get paid pretty well. It's legal and ethically beneficial to their fellow man to train the next generation of physicians. Not a bad gig.
 
Not really. The purpose for it is not strange. And they get paid rather well for those particular exams, since they're not exactly fun.
 
If you do this at your local medical school/hospital as a pre med, is it possible that when you apply and if you are granted and interview, could your interviewer or student interviewer end up being the same person who examined your rectum?

Because that could be an awkward situation.
 
Members don't see this ad :)
o4i said:
Does anyone else think there is something a little weird about people getting paid to get rectal and genital exams? Getting paid to have your private parts examined seems a bit strange to me.
Click to expand...

In the context of medical education, no it is not strange. NickNaylor described it perfectly above. I would never do it, but I'm thankful for the people that do, because I don't want my first GU/rectal exams to be on real patients, and I'm sure the patients don't want that either.

TheShaker said:
I think a lot of them are volunteers. I guess you really gotta love what you do.
Click to expand...

Noooo they are paid very very well. A lot of them come back year after year.
 
pre med 2014 said:
If you do this at your local medical school/hospital as a pre med, is it possible that when you apply and if you are granted and interview, could your interviewer or student interviewer end up being the same person who examined your rectum?

Because that could be an awkward situation.
Click to expand...

It actually wouldn't be that awkward. By the end of med school and certainly by early residency you will have done so many genital exams, speculum exams and digital rectal exams on people of all ages and sizes that you really won't think of it as any different than looking in any other orifice (except that it's a pain to wait for a nurse to make herself available to be a chaperone, the most inconvenient part of the exam, when you just want to get in and out). By the end of intern year, depending on specialty, you probably will have done hundreds of these exams -- it's a critical part of the physical exam for certain complaints. The novelty and notions of taboo wear off quickly.
 
Law2Doc said:
It actually wouldn't be that awkward. By the end of med school and certainly by early residency you will have done so many genital exams, speculum exams and digital rectal exams on people of all ages and sizes that you really won't think of it as any different than looking in any other orifice (except that it's a pain to wait for a nurse to make herself available to be a chaperone, the most inconvenient part of the exam, when you just want to get in and out). By the end of intern year, depending on specialty, you probably will have done hundreds of these exams -- it's a critical part of the physical exam for certain complaints. The novelty and notions of taboo wear off quickly.
Click to expand...

When do they actually make you learn and perform this for the first time? I guess this is what I'm least looking forward to.
 
I guess I was wrong about them being volunteers. Maybe it was the standardized patients who don't get the invasive stuff. I don't know, I'm pretty sure I heard that they were community volunteers at one of the schools I visited.
 
Arbor Vitae said:
When do they actually make you learn and perform this for the first time? I guess this is what I'm least looking forward to.
Click to expand...

At my school, I just learned the breast exam (I am a MS1). Also have practiced the female pelvic exam on dummies. Will do that and the DRE on standardized patients around November of second year.
 
pre med 2014 said:
If you do this at your local medical school/hospital as a pre med, is it possible that when you apply and if you are granted and interview, could your interviewer or student interviewer end up being the same person who examined your rectum?

Because that could be an awkward situation.
Click to expand...

We're all supposed to be professionals by that time. Pretend like it never happened. He should extend the same measure of respect to you.
 
Arbor Vitae said:
When do they actually make you learn and perform this for the first time? I guess this is what I'm least looking forward to.
Click to expand...

We began learning the basic physical exam (not including breast or GU) midway through M1 and finished it by M1. M2 was spent mostly on "advanced" topics and exams.
 
I used to work as a standardized patient, and was paid $15 an hour for basic exams. Got a chance to meet first and second year students as well as a few residents/attendings. Learned a whole lot of stuff.
 
jorgediaz said:
I used to work as a standardized patient, and was paid $15 an hour for basic exams. Got a chance to meet first and second year students as well as a few residents/attendings. Learned a whole lot of stuff.
Click to expand...

sounds like a great job for premeds!
 
DrNoo said:
sounds like a great job for premeds!
Click to expand...

Actually I thought it would be great extra-credit for third and fourth years.

One year you give a rectal exam...next year you GET one! :eek:

Sounds like fun and laughter all around.:smuggrin:
 
So pardon my ignorance on this issue, but for the schools that use standardized patients for rectal or prostate exams, does that particular person receive multiple rectal or prostate exams in a single day/week.

I can completely understand wanting to give back to the medical community and having a passion for helping student doctors learn, but no amount of passion or altruism could get me to the point where I would be ready to have MULTIPLE rectal or prostate exams done in a single day. At some point this seems to cross into masochism!

Edit to add: I have nothing but respect and appreciation for standardized patients and the people who choose to donate their bodies to science in order to be utilized as cadavers for anatomy lab. Without them the medical profession would be seriously hindered on the education side.
 
WTEngel said:
So pardon my ignorance on this issue, but for the schools that use standardized patients for rectal or prostate exams, does that particular person receive multiple rectal or prostate exams in a single day/week.

I can completely understand wanting to give back to the medical community and having a passion for helping student doctors learn, but no amount of passion or altruism could get me to the point where I would be ready to have MULTIPLE rectal or prostate exams done in a single day. At some point this seems to cross into masochism!

Edit to add: I have nothing but respect and appreciation for standardized patients and the people who choose to donate their bodies to science in order to be utilized as cadavers for anatomy lab. Without them the medical profession would be seriously hindered on the education side.
Click to expand...

Yes. I just did the practice for these exams last week. The model for the male exam got at least 8 rectal/prostate exams that day. Good times.
 
WTEngel said:
So pardon my ignorance on this issue, but for the schools that use standardized patients for rectal or prostate exams, does that particular person receive multiple rectal or prostate exams in a single day/week.

I can completely understand wanting to give back to the medical community and having a passion for helping student doctors learn, but no amount of passion or altruism could get me to the point where I would be ready to have MULTIPLE rectal or prostate exams done in a single day. At some point this seems to cross into masochism!

Edit to add: I have nothing but respect and appreciation for standardized patients and the people who choose to donate their bodies to science in order to be utilized as cadavers for anatomy lab. Without them the medical profession would be seriously hindered on the education side.
Click to expand...
Never did a rectal exam on a model patient, actually. Did a pelvic, breast and male genital exam though. I'm sure the pelvic exam gets pretty uncomfortable, but the other ones wouldn't hurt.
 
TheProwler said:
Never did a rectal exam on a model patient, actually. Did a pelvic, breast and male genital exam though. I'm sure the pelvic exam gets pretty uncomfortable, but the other ones wouldn't hurt.
Click to expand...

Unless you squeeze too hard :eek:
 
WTEngel said:
So pardon my ignorance on this issue, but for the schools that use standardized patients for rectal or prostate exams, does that particular person receive multiple rectal or prostate exams in a single day/week.

I can completely understand wanting to give back to the medical community and having a passion for helping student doctors learn, but no amount of passion or altruism could get me to the point where I would be ready to have MULTIPLE rectal or prostate exams done in a single day. At some point this seems to cross into masochism!

Edit to add: I have nothing but respect and appreciation for standardized patients and the people who choose to donate their bodies to science in order to be utilized as cadavers for anatomy lab. Without them the medical profession would be seriously hindered on the education side.
Click to expand...

We had a guy let a dozen med students check his prostate in a span of about two hours.
 
Well, if you feel discomfort about someone who provides a service that you would be uncomfortable doing you might should look within and ask "Why?" This is even more important if you ARE in a direction headed to be a primary health care provider. After all, detachment from "the body" is important. Almost all genitourinary models truly see their genitals no different than their elbows or a heel... Truthfully, a physician-to-be MUST see a 'body' as an assembly of parts and examining any one of them is no different than another. The question of questioning a GU model is somewhat disconcerting...
 
I wasn't aware that anyone here was questioning a person's intentions when deciding to become a GU model or SP.

If that's what you got from my question then something was lost in translation, or you are being overly sensitive.
 
pre med 2014 said:
If you do this at your local medical school/hospital as a pre med, is it possible that when you apply and if you are granted and interview, could your interviewer or student interviewer end up being the same person who examined your rectum?
Click to expand...

The people who do the genital exams are often older and have that as their primary job (or at least close to it). At least, the women do. Most of them have had multiple children as well, which makes a significant difference when doing the pelvic exam. They travel a lot to act as models. I know, since I used to live with one of them. Talk about awkward...

WTEngel said:
So pardon my ignorance on this issue, but for the schools that use standardized patients for rectal or prostate exams, does that particular person receive multiple rectal or prostate exams in a single day/week.
Click to expand...

The way my school did it was have something like 3 groups in an afternoon with 3 students in each group. Each person would end up doing a full genital exam. It took a full week to get through everyone in the class.

The acting standardized patients tend to do it over and over again. I've been through the clinical skills center multiple times in the past 3 years and recognize many of the SPs, who have played multiple roles over the years. I believe their get compensated fairly well, but not as well as the genital exam SPs.
 
It didn't even occur to me that this was a profession! Fascinating.

I bet they are fantastic at what they do after they've been through these scenarios so many times...
 
WTEngel said:
It didn't even occur to me that this was a profession! Fascinating.

I bet they are fantastic at what they do after they've been through these scenarios so many times...
Click to expand...

Yeah I've only ever had one "young" SP and she was probably in her early 30s. The rest were 50s-60s range (but I've only interacted with ~15 or so of the SP's in the program). It was really interesting when one of the SP's I had for interviewing and for physical exam came back for a behavioral medicine session and she was her actual self. Apparently she had acted a lot in plays and commercials when she was younger and now this is just a way to keep acting and making money while teaching future doctors. All of the SPs are really really good and never break character, even when giving us feedback. It makes the transition to interviewing real patients almost painless! :)
 
SP's aren't just old people. Your school has an SP coordinator that is responsible for hiring, and they do their best to hire a diverse bunch of people. I used to work as an SP, and most groups are composed of people who don't work full time ie. those in retirement age or those attending college/just graduated.
 
As an SP, I sometimes break character. It depends on who the instructor is. Some instructors treat us like real patients, and the students really take the interaction seriously. Other instructors like to interject frequently, and acknowledge the fact that we aren't real patients. It's harder to stay in role when that is the case.
 
Law2Doc said:
We had a guy let a dozen med students check his prostate in a span of about two hours.
Click to expand...

WTF, what was the guy like?


MaleGUmodel said:
Well, if you feel discomfort about someone who provides a service that you would be uncomfortable doing you might should look within and ask "Why?" This is even more important if you ARE in a direction headed to be a primary health care provider. After all, detachment from "the body" is important. Almost all genitourinary models truly see their genitals no different than their elbows or a heel... Truthfully, a physician-to-be MUST see a 'body' as an assembly of parts and examining any one of them is no different than another. The question of questioning a GU model is somewhat disconcerting...
Click to expand...

There are a lot of ways to give to science. This seems more like science giving it to you.


mvenus929 said:
The people who do the genital exams are often older and have that as their primary job (or at least close to it). At least, the women do. Most of them have had multiple children as well, which makes a significant difference when doing the pelvic exam. They travel a lot to act as models. I know, since I used to live with one of them. Talk about awkward...
Click to expand...

Is this even real life?
 
Last edited:
Arbor Vitae said:
WTF, what was the guy like?
Click to expand...

seemed like your average middle age overweight white guy.

In tems of motivations, I suspect there are many: People have bills to pay, want to do something important in their lives like helping to train new doctors (not everyone is a college grad with a promising career ahead of them), have personal reasons/bad experiences why they want a role in improving healthcare, or are simply out if work actors who (like Kramer on Seinfeld) see this as some form of acting gig.

Regardless, we all should be thankful that for whatever reason people are willing to take on this job -- it would be much more awkward trying to learn this for the first time in a clinical setting.
 
Ismet said:
Yeah I've only ever had one "young" SP and she was probably in her early 30s. The rest were 50s-60s range (but I've only interacted with ~15 or so of the SP's in the program). It was really interesting when one of the SP's I had for interviewing and for physical exam came back for a behavioral medicine session and she was her actual self. Apparently she had acted a lot in plays and commercials when she was younger and now this is just a way to keep acting and making money while teaching future doctors. All of the SPs are really really good and never break character, even when giving us feedback. It makes the transition to interviewing real patients almost painless! :)
Click to expand...
One of the regular SPs (not a GU model, or at least not one that I encountered) was a college friend of my dad's. He was a small-time actor/playwright, so this just helped with the bills, I guess.
 
At the med school where I did my undergrad, there were posters up advertising opportunities to be SPs, I think the rectals paid about $200 by some time span.

Where I am now, I heard that quite a few of the nurses volunteer for the female pelvic exams.

Then a resident told me that some of the GI fellows practiced rectal stuff on each other.....
 
wholeheartedly said:
Then a resident told me that some of the GI fellows practiced rectal stuff on each other.....
Click to expand...

sticker,375x360.png
 
wholeheartedly said:
At the med school where I did my undergrad, there were posters up advertising opportunities to be SPs, I think the rectals paid about $200 by some time span.

Where I am now, I heard that quite a few of the nurses volunteer for the female pelvic exams.

Then a resident told me that some of the GI fellows practiced rectal stuff on each other.....
Click to expand...

Wanna buy a bridge?
 
You must log in or register to reply here.
Next unread thread

Similar threads

M
Secondary app "standardized tests"
Replies
3
Views
432
DOcSto
D
S
Standardized Patient Clinical Experience?
Replies
6
Views
2K
Goro
Goro
riolustan
Standard mid-cycle silence panic post
Replies
3
Views
780
candbgirl
C
L
Reporting High School Standardized Tests for TMDSAS
Replies
3
Views
439
wysdoc
wysdoc
L
  • Locked
What is a competitive amount of hours (working with patients) to apply to med schools?
Replies
1
Views
575
GoSpursGo
GoSpursGo
Top