Stimwave

[needledox]

Does this technology work? Specially PNS? In fellowship we abandoned stim wave but now that I’m out physicians in the area are dropping them like crazy

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[pmrmd]

Limited experience but yes. Perm harder to activate properly and cumbersome but effective for the right indications. Really not looking for more though.

 

[paindoc007]

Stimwave Fails to Include Alleged External Hardware Deficiencies as Complaints

Complaints of software-related performance problems did not go through the firm’s complaint handling procedure, which meant they were not evaluated to determine if the events should be reported to the FDA.

www.fdanews.com

 

[Needlejockeys]

sounds about right

 

[No Pain All gain]

sounds about right

Decent experience with PNS n=1

I did 1 SCS and external battery burned up like crazy and lead free floated. Fortunately didn’t burn patient. Case report published in BJA.

I’ve had several Bioness patients with intolerance of patch so I am actually thinking the wearable from stimwave has an advantage. I’ll do some more cases and see.

Interested to see Nalu for PNS

 

[needledox]

I’ve had at least 20 patients come in with failed stimwave PNS. All asking for them to be explanted

 

[BobBarker]

I think 10 stim wave scs implants were done in my state with their first distributor in 2017. They are all explanted.

 

[deleted472101]

Nalu seems like it will be a little better than stimwave in the external battery setting.

 

[epidural man]

Stimwave Fails to Include Alleged External Hardware Deficiencies as Complaints

Complaints of software-related performance problems did not go through the firm’s complaint handling procedure, which meant they were not evaluated to determine if the events should be reported to the FDA.

www.fdanews.com

fake website by the way - (I think....)

 

[No Pain All gain]

6 month data. Questionable statistics. Predetermined outcome.

 

[Crybaby]

I have done 2.
1 medial inf genicular in a diabetic with TKA infected/ revision. Terrible post op pain. RFA did well on superior genicular locations, inferior I just could not get.
His pain thus far 2 months out is very good, and his activity level has substantially improved. I am not pleased with his wound. I used a zip tie closure device and he took it off 3 days post op and failed to mention it until f/u 6 days later. That was my mistake, I do not think I will use that again. So with his history I have been watching this very closely and thankfully it is looking better.

# 2 is a lady with SI joint pain. Injections lasting 6-10 weeks, and having was mobility issues affecting independence when injections wear off. While the battery is worn it works very well. Almost 2 months out, thus far I am pleased. Now she can saver her steroid exposures for COPD exacerbations

N of 2. I am hopeful. I will continue to offer to patients that really have no other options if there is an identifiable source of pain.

 

[gdub25]

I think everything about this company is questionable from their marketing tactics to their nearly unrealistic results in their study to the doctors they are partnering with and have on the payroll to the CEO herself. In OK where I live there is a family medicine doc who’s impacting these things like crazy, teaches their courses, is a self proclaimed expert in neuromodulation, and the company appears to hold him in high regards despite him having any formal training or certifications that I can tell from his publicly available credentials. I think there may be a niche for this type of treatment but have a hard time taking this company seriously and will be looking to other similar devices for any perfipheral indications I run across.

 

[Needlejockeys]

I think everything about this company is questionable from their marketing tactics to their nearly unrealistic results in their study to the doctors they are partnering with and have on the payroll to the CEO herself. In OK where I live there is a family medicine doc who’s impacting these things like crazy, teaches their courses, is a self proclaimed expert in neuromodulation, and the company appears to hold him in high regards despite him having any formal training or certifications that I can tell from his publicly available credentials. I think there may be a niche for this type of treatment but have a hard time taking this company seriously and will be looking to other similar devices for any perfipheral indications I run across.

Concerning for sure

 

[TIVAndy]

i think people are looking into 1. Stimrouter from bioness and 2. SPR sprint system for PNS. anyone utilized them yet? i'll be doing some soon for suprascapular and axillary nerve. also the other thing i had issue with stimwave is i don't know if their IPG code is kosher. one of the billing companies said don't risk it.. not sure what everyone's experience is

 

[icecold99]

I’ve had at least 20 patients come in with failed stimwave PNS. All asking for them to be explanted

What were the reasons for stimwave PNS did not work for your patients?

 

[Orin]

I've used Bioness and Stimwave.

The Bioness system is my favorite to place and it is far more forgiving.
The Stimwave system requires a lot more attention to detail and the PNS hardware needs to be iterated a few more times, as their PNS lead is basically their SCS lead with barbs on it

The SPR system is easy to put in but I keep getting push back from insurers since they call it percutaneous electrical nerve stimulation since you aren't actually implanting an electrode or electrode array, and the lack of ability to trial anything with it makes it frustrating

 

[deleted993114]

I’ve had at least 20 patients come in with failed stimwave PNS. All asking for them to be explanted

Wow- that is not very encouraging. Twenty? I have had about the same number of Nevro patients who has the systems placed for back pain who wanted the stims ex-planted. Not bashing Nevro- just the indication for which the stim was placed. I think you can make all of the conventional systems work with the proper indications.

 

[deleted993114]

I think everything about this company is questionable from their marketing tactics to their nearly unrealistic results in their study to the doctors they are partnering with and have on the payroll to the CEO herself. In OK where I live there is a family medicine doc who’s impacting these things like crazy, teaches their courses, is a self proclaimed expert in neuromodulation, and the company appears to hold him in high regards despite him having any formal training or certifications that I can tell from his publicly available credentials. I think there may be a niche for this type of treatment but have a hard time taking this company seriously and will be looking to other similar devices for any perfipheral indications I run across.

These "experts" come and go over time. Usually those guys end up in legal trouble, which ends their empires. I purposely do not use companies which cater to these unethical physicians and do nothing to reign them in.

I'll bet that guy eventually will have problems with the insurers, as they will identify him as a far statistical "outlier". When they do so, they pass such information off to the board of medical examiners. Clearly, with no training, this guy does not give a rip about patients and is just interested in money. Unfortunately, pain management tends to attract such individuals. He will get whacked eventually- they all do.

 

[No Pain All gain]

That same guy is doing Vertiflex also.

More likely there will be a bad outcome and lawsuit and the center that credentialed him will be in more trouble than he will be.

Stimwave will train anyone obviously and just want to post more pictures of d-bags with their boxes on LinkedIn.

 

[deleted993114]

That same guy is doing Vertiflex also.

More likely there will be a bad outcome and lawsuit and the center that credentialed him will be in more trouble than he will be.

Stimwave will train anyone obviously and just want to post more pictures of d-bags with their boxes on LinkedIn.

Those things never end well. It is really a shame when a doc puts profit above patient care. You can do very well in medicine and be ethical- people just get greedy and lose sight of their mission.

Just be thankful you are not like him- you can sleep at night and are doing the right thing for people who need help.

I will not be using stimwave due to this information, as we should not subsidize companies who are operating in this manner.

 

[icecold99]

I think everything about this company is questionable from their marketing tactics to their nearly unrealistic results in their study to the doctors they are partnering with and have on the payroll to the CEO herself. In OK where I live there is a family medicine doc who’s impacting these things like crazy, teaches their courses, is a self proclaimed expert in neuromodulation, and the company appears to hold him in high regards despite him having any formal training or certifications that I can tell from his publicly available credentials. I think there may be a niche for this type of treatment but have a hard time taking this company seriously and will be looking to other similar devices for any perfipheral indications I run across.

Are you referring to some of the doctor's stimwave uses for medical advisors? Can you provide any examples or specifics?

Stimwave Technologies - Home

Stimwave Technologies - Experience Less Pain & More Living. Freedom Stimulators provide a full-body

stimwave.com

Do you think the Stimwave devices themselves offer any advantages over Bioness Stimrouter given it looks like they can operate at higher frequencies than Bioness?

I am also puzzled why if the Stimwave company as a whole is unethical how they managed to get a 5 yr DOD contract for SCS.

Stimwave wins 5-year DoD contract to supply SCS devices

Stimwave Technologies said today it won a Distribution and Pricing Agreement with the Department of Defense’s Defense Logistics Agency. Through the 5-year contract, Stimwave will supply the Agency with its Freedom spinal cord stimulation systems. The Ft. Lauderdale, Fla.-based company touted the...

www.massdevice.com

Appreciate your thoughts.

 

[Orin]

It's unclear to me why any company should be expected to police the people using their products?

If the company is manipulating them to sell stuff, it's one thing. If the company is supporting a customer, why should they be making sure the customer is trained beyond what they do to train any other doctor? I assume this person is accredited/credentialed/reimbursed by boards/hospitals/insurers/etc.

Conversely, did we all feel that when DRG rolled out that the controlled access/training was appropriate? They argued it was to make sure the technique didn't die because of unscrupulous doctors working beyond their skills, but it seemed like a marketing/business decision.

While I'm aware of local reps steering referrals away/to certain providers based on outcomes, I'm not aware of any company that blacklists a physician from using their hardware?

Stimwave does some goofy stuff for sure, but I'm really not sure it's any worse/better than any of the other companies. They're definitely much more disruptive for the neuromodulation ecosystem than Nevro though with their lack of need for IPG revisions, transitioning batteries to DME -> L codes, and their lack of a paddle system.

 

[DODOCSS]

Several new posters (shills/reps) popping up defending bs

 

[Orin]

Argumentum ad hominem – logical fallacies

ad hominem argument occurs when one attacks the person making an argument rather than the argument itself.

www.skepticalraptor.com

In all honesty, I don't see how this company is any worse or better than the rest, but I'm definitely not aware of their practices beyond my local sphere. Maybe if I had paid for that lucrative center of excellence tier they would have shown me their crazy?

 

[Ducttape]

Interesting that one would post about the government and getting a contract as a sign of something good.

one of the interesting aspects about this forum is that we can see how companies through their representatives treat their customers and those who implant their devices.

I know in a free market capitalist economy, its all about money and selling product is paramount... but I like to think that we as physicians are ethically bound to do what is best for the patient. 3 members posted something of concern. the thread appeared to die out on Aug 31st, then suddenly a brand new poster who has only 2 posts - both on this thread - appears last Friday, after near 3 weeks inactivity.

DODOCSS posts concerns that this might be someone who is working for the company... which is a conclusion that seems appropriate. it wasn't an ad hominem attack, because I believe his primary purpose of the post was to raise collective concern that there was a biased poster on this thread.

 

[Orin]

Interesting that one would post about the government and getting a contract as a sign of something good.

one of the interesting aspects about this forum is that we can see how companies through their representatives treat their customers and those who implant their devices.

I know in a free market capitalist economy, its all about money and selling product is paramount... but I like to think that we as physicians are ethically bound to do what is best for the patient. 3 members posted something of concern. the thread appeared to die out on Aug 31st, then suddenly a brand new poster who has only 2 posts - both on this thread - appears last Friday, after near 3 weeks inactivity.

DODOCSS posts concerns that this might be someone who is working for the company... which is a conclusion that seems appropriate. it wasn't an ad hominem attack, because I believe his primary purpose of the post was to raise collective concern that there was a biased poster on this thread.

A government contract/DOD approval is in theory an endorsement of quality as that's a rigorous vetting process one would assume. They generally don't like their active duty military people being played with just for funsies.

It is neat to see how representatives treat their customers/implanters/patients, but that doesn't necessarily define a company. There are poisonous reps everywhere though, but the question is whether outcomes are independent of the local representatives or if it's really just a magic placebo.

I'm not sure what to say about the post trajectory, but I would expect any media savvy company to have shadow posters/reps/etc to manage their social profile. In this case, we may as well be beetlejuicing Andrea Trescot or Laura Perryman themselves, but anonymity is the beauty of the internet. For all I know, I may be a deepfake bot from China.

Regardless, those two CEO/CMOs and their company may be a bit weird, aggressive, arrogant, or whatever, but it's good to see some new thoughts in this field. I don't think they're really positioning to sell out and make money like some people keep suggesting, but they are pushing hard to get people to use them, even if we don't like who those people are. They're definitely very millennial with a better idea of how to sell/market/etc than the big four, but they're uniquely hampered by the inability to get orthopedic/neurosurgeons due to their lack of a paddle system. Listening to the scuttlebutt around the conferences, they've also uniquely pissed off some important KOLs that are frequently shown on the Caption Contest of the Week: Why Are These Men Smiling? and I unabashedly have a soft spot for their instrangience even if they do seem to get sued on the regular (https://www.massdevice.com/nevro-wins-partial-injunction-in-patent-spat-with-stimwave/).

 

[No Pain All gain]

Nothing says "Center of Excellence" like not wearing a hat for an implanted device. Universal precautions and sterile technique don't apply for industry-declared "Centers of Excellence"
Nothing says professional like "Buisness Development Manager"

 

[Agast]

Xray tech isn't even wearing a mask wtf is this.

Oh. Dude started his practice in 1986. They probably weren't even washing their hands back then.

 

[Orin]

Xray tech isn't even wearing a mask wtf is this.

Oh. Dude started his practice in 1986. They probably weren't even washing their hands back then.

Was there an RCT on masks and infections? Is this evidence based?

Use of face masks by non-scrubbed operating room staff: a randomized controlled trial - PubMed

Surgical site infection rates did not increase when non-scrubbed operating room personnel did not wear a face mask.

www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov

I'm just messing, but the dude's hair rocks. It's like the Stimwave version of Matlock. Do you think that radiology tech was flown in or the usual?

 

[myrandom2003]

Was there an RCT on masks and infections? Is this evidence based?

Use of face masks by non-scrubbed operating room staff: a randomized controlled trial - PubMed

Surgical site infection rates did not increase when non-scrubbed operating room personnel did not wear a face mask.

www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov

I'm just messing, but the dude's hair rocks. It's like the Stimwave version of Matlock. Do you think that radiology tech was flown in or the usual?

Flown in from Joe Montana’s stable

 

[sdnuser001]

I have done 2.
1 medial inf genicular in a diabetic with TKA infected/ revision. Terrible post op pain. RFA did well on superior genicular locations, inferior I just could not get.
His pain thus far 2 months out is very good, and his activity level has substantially improved. I am not pleased with his wound. I used a zip tie closure device and he took it off 3 days post op and failed to mention it until f/u 6 days later. That was my mistake, I do not think I will use that again. So with his history I have been watching this very closely and thankfully it is looking better.

# 2 is a lady with SI joint pain. Injections lasting 6-10 weeks, and having was mobility issues affecting independence when injections wear off. While the battery is worn it works very well. Almost 2 months out, thus far I am pleased. Now she can saver her steroid exposures for COPD exacerbations

N of 2. I am hopeful. I will continue to offer to patients that really have no other options if there is an identifiable source of pain.

Where did you place the leads for #2?