Stony Brook vs. a B.S./M.D. program (read more)

[Gigantron]

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[HockeyDr09]

Now that the college application is over for just about every high school senior, it is the time to finally make the decision for where we will spend the next four years (or for some, possibly less) of our life. I was accepted to some really great schools like NYU and BU. However, horrendous financial aid has implored me not to even consider these schools as options.

My choices have now been narrowed down to two schools: Stony Brook University and Shepherd University (8 year B.S./M.D. program; also known as the MedSTEP program). I interviewed at the WVU School of Medicine on Thursday (for the MedSTEP program), and will find out my decision on or around the week of April 10th, leaving me with enough time to still decide.


Stony Brook University Pro’s:
-Great undergraduate science program(s)
-Research opportunities abound
-Shadowing/Internship opportunities abound
-Would graduate with no debt, even if I didn’t receive help from outside scholarship programs (only 6k/year instate tuition)
-Very close to family
-Decent reputation
-Won’t have to live on campus (hopefully)
-The ability to choose specialized science courses (Neuroscience, for example)
-Connections with the Stony Brook School of Medicine (received a letter of recommendation from an Anesthesiologist affiliated with the university during my shadowing time with him)
-Overall a better ranked school than Shepherd

Stony Brook University Cons:
-Campus life isn’t that great
-HUGE intro classes (I’ve heard anywhere from three to five hundred students)
-I’ve heard that even classes at the 300 level can be crowded
-Classes taught mostly by TA’s, not professors
-Educational budget cuts (New Yorkers, you know what I’m talking about) could possibly hinder opportunities for the future
-Everybody is trying to get the attention of the professors
-There is just no way that I am guaranteed an acceptance into medical school...this worries me
-Cutthroat competition
-Presumably no support from the faculty, since most of them only seem to care about research
-No diversity
-Huge pre-med population = Tons of competition
-Science course notoriously challenging


Shepherd University B.S./M.D. pro’s:
-A small, close-knit college feeling
-Guaranteed pre-planned, medically related activities to do over the summer
-Research is also easy to find
-Guaranteed acceptance into the West Virginia University School of Medicine (a great medical school)
-Only need to maintain a 3.5 GPA and score a 24 on the MCAT
-Monthly seminar-enrichment activities
-Enormous support (especially for MedSTEP students) from the faculty and pre-medical advisors
-Decently sized campus (not too big, not too small)
-There is the possibility of graduating early (giving me one less year of tuition and one extra year of physician’s salary)
-I’m not pigeonholed into a specialty like primary care – I would have the ability to match into whatever I want, wherever I want. No hidden “conditions” for this B.S./M.D. program
-Scarce pre-med population = no competition
-Barely any TA’s
-Only 3-6 students are accepted; could be used to my advantage when entering private scholarship competitions

Shepherd University B.S./M.D. cons:
-In the boonies
-Five to six hours away from home
-I am always considered an “out-of-state” student, tuition wise
-The WVU School of medicine costs around 62k each year for out-of-state students
-The possibility of graduating with enormous debt from the school of medicine
-Undergraduate institution is relatively unknown outside of West Virginia
-You lose the guaranteed med school acceptance if you decide to apply out
-WVU School of medicine requires additional coursework like philosophy, sociology, or even U.S. History. Quite frankly, I’d prefer not to take those
-Tuition for undergrad may pose a problem (6k tuition with no room and board at Stony vs. 26k tuition with room and board at Shepherd)
-No diversity here either
-May not provide a challenge (I know I said Stony's science courses are notoriously challenging, but I want something in the middle)



Sorry for the huge list, but I want to have outside opinions on this. I also just want to clarify: I know that I haven't been accepted into the B.S./M.D. program, but my interview went extremely well and there were "hints" that I would have a good chance of being accepted into this program. Of course, if I'm not accepted, I am going to Stony Brook hands down, but again I want to have other opinions on this.

I'm from LI too, and I know Stony Brook pretty well. I actually chose Buffalo over Stony Brook (Kind of for the opposite reason as you, I wanted to live AWAY from home, not near it ). If it was me, I would go to Stony Brook. To me the biggest factor is tuition. The whole rankings and going to a "lower tier" school doesn't make a difference to me personally. 63k a year O.O.S Cost of attendance isn't horrendous, but it's more than I would want to spend. Are you a good standardized test taker? The B.S/M.D program requires a 3.5. In my opinion, if you have a >3.5 and usually score well on standardized tests, 30+ on the MCAT is definitely within the realm of possibility. With >3.5 and 30+ on the MCAT, and all the other aspects of your application are in order, you should be able to get into an in-state med school and save some serious cash.
I wouldn't live at home if you went to Stony Brook though. I know it saves money, but it's just a different experience, and doesn't really give you real college experience.

 

[Gigantron]

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[HockeyDr09]

Thank you for responding. You're right, while 62-63k of OOS tuition a year for medical school may not be horrible...I think it really depends on what specialty you go to. If was, oh say, interested in primary care, then maybe the OOS tuition factor may pose as a greater threat. I'm actually interested in surgery. I've shadowed physicians in both the clinic and in the operating room (about 200+ hours worth of shadowing, I would say), and surgery is much more interesting.

I'm a slightly above-average test taker. My ACT score of 27 is good, but it isn't in the 99th percentile or anything like that.

As for the bolded, Stony Brook is a commuter campus. If mandatory freshman tripling is pertinent to a "real college experience," then I'll gladly still live at home and save myself about 2k.

From College Board

Housing and Policies
82% of first-year students live in college housing
59% of all undergraduates live in college housing

That is just college housing, and it doesn't account for people who live off campus near the school (without parents). I'm surprised you say it's a commuter campus, I know a ton of people that go there, and they all live on campus. Just my experience, so it doesn't hold much water, but I thought I'd throw the stats on there. Let me know what you wind up choosing, I'm curious. If you want any more advice into dealing with TA's, and huge classes, feel free to PM me.

 

[bigdan]

G -

Looks like you have some tough choices to make.

To appreciate my perspective, I'm an anesthesiology resident in Pittsburgh, but I went to Stony Brook for medical school. My very short answer to your question is go to Stony Brook.

My long answer is go to Stony Brook, for several reasons:
1. Education: look, you've gotta learn organic chemistry and statistics and whatever else no matter where you go to school. That's on you. Like professors, some TAs will be good, some will be bad. Don't forget that in a larger school, you will also have more opportunities for help/guidance/extra help that you might at a smaller school. I understand the superficial desire to avoid "competition", but from my perspective, that competition is VERY important for you as a pre-med: first, those competitors will ALWAYS be there - maybe not at your school, but they're gonna be somewhere, competing against you for medical school spots, residency spots, jobs after residency, etc. Additionally, I think there's something good for your development in having to step up your game. The last thing, which to me is the most important, is that a big school that does not have you on easy street into medical school will allow you to keep your mind over about other things in life. I remember my very first undergrad chemistry course. The professor asked "How many of you are pre-meds, and plan on going to medical school?" I kid you not - almost the entire class raised their hand...so my guess is 400 of the 450 students did. From that class, FIFTY of us ended up applying to medical school. So 350 students had their plans altered along the way. Which is fine. It may not happen to you, but it may. It's not always that students can't hack the work, but often people realize medicine isn't for them. Unfortunately, there are a number of people that don't realize that until they're in medical school or residency - at that SUCKS, because they're already in debt at that point. Either way, it's important to have exposure to some of the other things in life.

2. Location: Based on your post, I'm assuming you're a Long Islander, from Suffolk County. In the most tactful way possible, let me suggest to you that life in medical school at Morgantown (in MANY ways) will be much much different than what you're used to. That can be a good thing - in fact, I think it's very important to see things different than what you're comfortable with/used to...but this will be a very big change. You already know that, but I just wanted to reinforce that.

3. Cost. I don't know you, but I'm already impressed that you're taking cost into your equation. The scuttlebutt on the future of medical care is this country is that physician salaries are likely to decrease. Let's hope that doesn't happen, but if it does, how are you supposed to pay back those megaloans? One way to help prevent that crisis is to keep the loans as low as possible. Does your post say you'll be paying 62 THOUSAND DOLLARS PER YEAR for medical school?!?! AFTER 26K/yr for UNDERGRAD?!?! Let's say you fall in love with Pediatrics or Family Medicine after medical school, and you end up a resident in one of those specialties...adding interest to those loans all that time. You get your first job, doctor, at 110K/yr...that puts you in a tough spot. My impression (remember I'm one person with one set of experiences) is that when you apply for residency, the medical school you come from may matter if you come from either Hopkins or Harvard or maybe Penn...but it's the STUDENT that matters. My point is, while you think WVU is a very good medical school - and maybe it is - I don't know that it's worth 62K of your money...I don't think ANY medical school is worth that. I went to Stony Brook (like 20K/yr) for medical school, but my favorite medical school was Emory in Atlanta. But I wasn't gonna pay 59K for the same two letters after my name.

Whatever you choose, good luck. I happen to think medicine is a great profession, and I am glad I chose it.

dc

 

[Gigantron]

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[bigdan]

Did you two just agree that $62,000/yr "isn't horrible" for you medical education?!?!? No? Not bad? What would an example of horrible be? You are aware that interest will collect on that, right?

Remember, no one is talking about increasing physician salaries in the future.

 

[bigdan]

G -

Did you apply to SB's BS/MD program?

Ah - Nassau. Either way - not Morgantown.

 

[Gigantron]

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[HockeyDr09]

Did you two just agree that $62,000/yr "isn't horrible" for you medical education?!?!? No? Not bad? What would an example of horrible be? You are aware that interest will collect on that, right?

Remember, no one is talking about increasing physician salaries in the future.

You're right, it is bad, I shouldn't have phrased it like that. My point was the 62k was the cost of attendance, and although it's bad I've seen schools CoA much higher. Instate Suny Buffalo is definitely cheaper, but still a lot in the end.Even SUNY Buffalo Instate medical students CoA is

Instate
MS1-47k
MS2-43k
MS3-51k
MS4-40k

OOS
MS1-71k
MS2-67k
MS3-75k
MS4-64k

62k is definitely bad, I just didn't think it was horrendous based on some other schools. I still think the OP should go stony brook.


How about Tufts medical school.

CoA
MS1- 77k
MS2-80k
MS3-84k
MS4-83k

 

[Gigantron]

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[torshi]

doesn't matter either way it's 8 years.

the accelerated program just makes it easier because its a guaranteed spot in med school and takes away the hassle of applying

 

[235009]

Yeah...I'm pretty sure I'll end up going to Stony Brook. Stony Brook's school of medicine would be an ideal school for me, at only 18-20k a year, and coming out of undergrad + medical school with no debt is absolutely wonderful.

tuition is now at ~25k and is certainly going to keep rising

as a NYS resident going to a no-name state school as an OOS student with no chance of applying to the FOUR well-regarded state med schools is NY is absolutely *****ic.

also don't look at COA for med schools ...just look at tuition + fees. You're going to have to rent a room and eat no matter where you go and one school might be underestimating some things while another might be overestimating. One example is that you'll be flying home during holidays from WV whereas at SB you can just take a leisurely half hour drive for a tiny fraction of the cost of the plane ticket. Not to mention gong to WV would mean being alienated from friends and family for 8 years as opposed to being a short drive away.

 

[Gigantron]

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[bigdan]

You made the right choice! Congrats, and I hope you end up a fellow alumnus in a few years!

dc