!!!!!Student Tour Guides Have Input to the Committee!!!!!!

[tourguide]

So I'm a first year medical student where I recently signed up to be a tour guide. At all of the interviews I went to I was told that student tour guides/ secretaries/ assistants don't have any say on my appilcation- but now that I am a part of the process I am discovering that this is different. Even though I don't fill out a form about an applicant I was asked to report any student that I really liked or didn't. A bunch of us at the training session said that seemed pretty shady and we were told that this is the norm around then country- secretaries can even mark how often you call- if you were rude etc.
So I guess the moral of the story- is pay attention to the phrasing of your tour guide- if they say they have no input at all then I guess I would take that for the truth- but if they say nothing or something a little ambigious then I would take it as they do report back and be on your best behavior- make a friend.
Also- be nice to the clerical staff!

Ok so that's my rant for how unfair I think this is

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[tourguide]

ok so i guess i was looking for comments- do you think that's unfair- good bad etc
and do you think that the guide should have to tell you if that's the case? because we don't have to tell you ****-
i just think this is really underhanded and think more people should be aware

 

[SuzieQ3417]

I really don't see anything wrong in this practice. If you are a nice person it should come across both in and outside of your interviews. That way an interviewer can make sure you're not just bs-ing when you're with them. As a doctor you will have to work with a team of people that includes med students, nurses, secretaries, etc, so it is important that you have the same amount of respect for everyone on that team. Just my $.02

 

[tourguide]

I really don't see anything wrong in this practice. If you are a nice person it should come across both in and outside of your interviews. That way an interviewer can make sure you're not just bs-ing when you're with them. As a doctor you will have to work with a team of people that includes med students, nurses, secretaries, etc, so it is important that you have the same amount of respect for everyone on that team. Just my $.02

good point- but you could look at it this way- so you get a tour guide that is super into his research and loves school and only wants to study all day- and you being a nice social person asks what there is to do in terms in nightlife in the town- do the students go out - do they hang out after class? and he/she sees it as you being a slacker and not going to school for the right reason (seriously there are some people in my class who are like that so i'm not just pulling this out of my butt)
i just think it's dumb that you have to click with one person and they can report if they liked you or not

 

[oompa loompa]

I guess I expect them to give feedback. I mean, it's the rare applicant who is noticeably rude or unfriendly to admissions staff and students ,right?
I actually worry sometimes when I'm especially quiet during an info session, especially when other people have clicked really well and become really loud and I"m just sitting there like a *****. I think, "what if they decide I'm an introvert and don't think I'll contribute to campus life?" But, other interview days have gone really well when I DO click with other interviewees and the current students. So, Yes, I think feedback is valuable if an applicant is especially rude, but if it's just about which applicants you "liked" better, then that's totally subjective and unfair.

 

[Uncle Izzy]

Interesting you say that... At my school, tour guides have zero input into the process, but, student interviewers defintely go have some input.

 

[argonana]

This is a bit random, but do you guys know if admissions offices have caller ID?? I have never been rude on the phone, but there are one or two schools I've called with neurotic questions a couple times.

 

[BooMed]

I'm not surprised by this at all. It only makes sense, really. I mean, if one of the applicants was just completely awful and mean to other people, wouldn't you want to give the ad-com the heads up?

Also, once when I visited a school the dean of admissions told me that he wanted to conduct a kind of "test" during the tour to see if students would help someone in need even when they are supposed to be paying attention to the tour guide. Yikes.

Moral of the story? Be on your best behaviour at all times!

 

[SanDiegoSOD]

Interviews are gameday. You don't show up and only play for two or three innings - you gotta play the whole nine.

 

[Centinel]

good point- but you could look at it this way- so you get a tour guide that is super into his research

Ahahaha, now that's just funny.

 

[DeterminedMD]

Interviews are gameday. You don't show up and only play for two or three innings - you gotta play the whole nine.

EXACTLY! Dont act like an idiot. If you were at a job interview would you be an a** to the front desk person just because he/she is not the one interviewing you? No...because they obviously can say something about you to your interviewer.

 

[lilycat]

There should be nothing surprising about this, nor is there anything unfair or "shady" about this.

In the situation described by the OP, which IS probably standard practice at most schools around the country, tour guides really don't have any input regarding admissions -- they are not screening applications, reading essays, or sitting in on meetings where applicants' merits are discussed, and rankings for admissions are established. However, tour guides, like all other affiliates of the medical school, including secretaries/coordinators, students not specifically affiliated with admissions or tour guiding, or professors not involved with the admissions process, may still have some input regarding admissions depending on the situation. When I was interviewing about five years ago, there was a male applicant who made derogatory, offensive, unprofessional comments regarding female cadavers during the tour. While there were no actual representatives of the admissions committee present to witness this, there were tour guides present, and an anatomy TA nearby. This incident found its way back to the admissions committee, and for good reason. When I was a tour guide my first year, there was a couple that was interviewing together and they could not keep their hands off each other -- they were kissing and carressing each other in the elevator, surrounded by the tour group, and clearly making the other applicants uncomfortable. They were also kissing and cuddling together in the auditorium for the applicants to gather in, in between interviews and tours. While this was not formally reported to the admissions committee, this was gossipped about privately between the tour guides and student AdCom members, and ended up being brought up at the AdCom meeting the following day, to the interviewees' detriment.

Questions about social life, partying, drinking, possibly even illicit drug use, would probably not trigger any reporting by tour guides or other members of the medical school community, even if they did not agree with the applicants' perspective. People are more tolerant than the OP gives them credit for. However, personally witnessing extremely unprofessional behavior is a different story, because these people are going to be your future colleagues, and if they can't pull it together for an interview session, where basically they enter into the situation knowing that they will be judged, how can you be sure they will pull it together when actually working in the hospital, where teamwork and collegial behavior becomes far more significant, and where it is harder to track an individual's behavior?

FYI -- the same holds for applying for residencies -- people have been brought down in the process by getting drunk and foolish at "getting-to-know-you" mixers and dinners.

 

[SuperTrooper]

good point- but you could look at it this way- so you get a tour guide that is super into his research and loves school and only wants to study all day- and you being a nice social person asks what there is to do in terms in nightlife in the town- do the students go out - do they hang out after class? and he/she sees it as you being a slacker and not going to school for the right reason (seriously there are some people in my class who are like that so i'm not just pulling this out of my butt)
i just think it's dumb that you have to click with one person and they can report if they liked you or not

I think you're making a big deal out of nothing. So, you were "asked to report any student that I really liked or didn't." I have some experience with this, and I don't think they care who you liked. I think it's more they want to know if there was a serious stand-out jerk that you really wouldn't want being your classmate. It has nothing to do with clicking with a person (as you suggested). I don't think it's unfair at all, unless the tourguide was a complete jerk himself/herself with an axe to grind. But even then, i think the admissions office would clue into that after a while.

 

[SeventhSon]

go on and rant about how you think this is unfair, but think about it.

students are a huge investment to a medical school. ther'es not a whole lot of you. you represent their school in the profession. Why would you NOT check up on your potentail students on the phone/in a tour to make sure they are not @$$holes? What you see during an interview is not always an accurate gauge of what you're getting.

 

[loveumms]

So I'm a first year medical student where I recently signed up to be a tour guide. At all of the interviews I went to I was told that student tour guides/ secretaries/ assistants don't have any say on my appilcation- but now that I am a part of the process I am discovering that this is different. Even though I don't fill out a form about an applicant I was asked to report any student that I really liked or didn't. A bunch of us at the training session said that seemed pretty shady and we were told that this is the norm around then country- secretaries can even mark how often you call- if you were rude etc.
So I guess the moral of the story- is pay attention to the phrasing of your tour guide- if they say they have no input at all then I guess I would take that for the truth- but if they say nothing or something a little ambigious then I would take it as they do report back and be on your best behavior- make a friend.
Also- be nice to the clerical staff!

Ok so that's my rant for how unfair I think this is

I think this is totally fair and reasonable. First off, an ACOM is not going to let a student matriculate or not based on whether a tour guide liked them or disliked them. That is ludicrous. Yes, if they acted totally *****ic or did something unprofessional on the tour your input might matter but, I can almost 100% guarantee that they are not going to deny admission based on if you liked them or not.

Second, you should ALWAYS be nice to clerical staff, regardless of whether they have anything to do with your application. Who cares if they record how many times you call … you really shouldn’t have to call more then a reasonable amount.

Someone asked if they thought the admissions office had caller ID. Not sure if they do or not but why would you be worried about it? Why would you need to feel like you have to hide your identity when you are calling? If you were calling for a practical reason then you wouldn’t care if they knew your identity.

 

[QofQuimica]

I also think that this practice is fair. Reporting by tourguides is probably optional in most cases, and so most tourguides probably don't report one way or the other about most applicants because there usually isn't anything that really sticks out to report.

When I was in college, I worked for the admissions office giving tours, hosting applicants overnight, and occasionally conducting interviews of the high school students that were applying there. As a tourguide, I rarely reported on any applicants, unless they did something really awful or really great that I thought the adcom should know about. As a host or interviewer, though, I filled out an evaluation that became part of the applicant's file, but I did not sit on the committee or get a vote on whether s/he was admitted. What the admissions office was wanting from me was my feeling about whether the applicant would fit in well at the school. They weren't looking for me to say whether I thought I'd be best friends with the person (i.e., have common interests like research or partying). And if I thought someone wouldn't fit in, I had to explain why. It couldn't be that I just didn't like the person's hobbies or something vague like that.

 

[45408]

I'm pretty sure that it's unlikely that a research-nerd tour guide is going to freak out about someone asking what the night life is like. I'm getting a pretty strong impression from a lot of med students that they pretty much all like to go out and party after a big block of exams or something.

 

[hippocampus]

oh noooo.. i called this one school to ask about my app, and i had really bad reception, so i couldnt hear what he was saying. so i had to ask the question again, and it seemed like he got annoyed.. is he going to write that? make something up cuz he was annoyed at me?

 

[Flopotomist]

Look at the positive angle here - an applicant that is TOTALLY nervous during the actual interview may be able to relax enough during a tour that the guide gets a better idea of how strong the candidate would fit into the school.

 

[loveumms]

oh noooo.. i called this one school to ask about my app, and i had really bad reception, so i couldnt hear what he was saying. so i had to ask the question again, and it seemed like he got annoyed.. is he going to write that? make something up cuz he was annoyed at me?

yup I think you should hurry up and rescind your application

Geesh people - STOP freaking out. Everyone isn't out to get you

 

[tangents]

i was a tour guide and i reported nothing to the administration and they didn't ask me anything, just a comment...

 

[ShyRem]

you only have something to fear if you're a jerk. Be yourself, be interested, be polite, you have no problems

 

[Darth Asclepius]

Second, you should ALWAYS be nice to clerical staff, regardless of whether they have anything to do with your application.

I agree 100%. So many people want to know who they have to be nice to because it could affect their acceptance, but why wouldn't you be nice to the secretaries and tour guides? You're going to have to work with other people for the rest of your life. If you can't be professional, you're going to have a problem. I think if an applicant is rude to the staff, they deserve to be rejected.

 

[happydays]

Tourguide is trying to say that he/she was TOLD he/she won't be judged in the tour, but later on he/she finds out that they are judged, and that's unfair. I don't think he/she was trying to say that being judged in the tour was unfair.