Student with unfair advantage on auditions

[Smiths11]

I'm not gifted in politics, to say the least. So I don't know if I should do something about this situation or not.

I'm auditioning with 3 other students in the ED. One of the students happens to have had a side gig/job in the department throughout Med Schools, which is good for him and obviously a fair advantage. He's well acquainted with all of the attendings and residents because of this, but again I have no complaints about this - it's just part of the game and he held the job fair in square.

Then it came time to make our shift schedule for the rotation. This kid shamelessly pulled out the attending schedule, which he obviously had prior/inside access to, and conveniently wrote in his name so he gets the most face time with PD and his top lieutenants while the rest of us have like 0 shifts total with the top people.

A few days ago we all had one on one meetings with the PD, who's a very friendly and down to earth guy. We talked about SLOEs and Residency, etc., and he voluntarily mentioned how no student will have an advantage over anyone else based on which attendings he/she works with. I didn't mention the above-mentioned event to him, but I almost wanted to. I'm sure he's telling the truth, but I feel that at the end of the day, if all else was equal between two candidates - the one with the more face time would win. And that bothers me.

Should I say anything about this? Or is this again just part of the game and we should just let it go? Again, I suck at hospital/work politics so that's why I'm bringing it up here.

Thanks

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[gutonc]

Congratulations on learning, relatively early, that departmental politics matters, and that it's not what you know, but who you know. Lesson very obviously learned.

There is only one way you can screw things up from here, and that is to make this a "thing" with the PD, or the Dept Chair, or any of the "top lieutenants", or the charge nurse, or the US tech, or the unit secretary, or frankly anyone.

And I'm not sure this will be as huge of an advantage for that guy/douchecanoe as you think it might be. He was already well known to the staff in that department and, it's unlikely that, for better or worse, he's changed anybody's mind with this rotation. If they loved him before, they probably love him now. If they already knew what a douche he was, clearly he's cemented his reputation in their minds.

TL;DR - You can only make things worse at this point. Move on.

 

[littlejuan]

That guy is a jackass for hoarding all those shifts, but people see through it. A guy did the same thing and more on my audition rotation. I presented a whole one patient to the PD, never had a full shift with him or any of the APDs and I still honored that rotation. Not only that, but during my entire interview trail, people would constantly ask my why I would choose their program over the one where I auditioned given that they loved me so much.

What we look for in rotators, someone who works hard, wants to learn, is enthusiastic and gets along well with everyone, not just attendings, but residents, nurses, etc.

Don't say anything about this, I am sure they are aware. I doubt they think it's a coincidence that he/she has all her shifts with the important people and the other rotators have none.

 

[Vandalia]

and that it's not what you know, but who you know.

Slight correction. It is "who knows what you know." If you are an idiot, or have significant flaws as an applicant, increased visibility is a negative, not a positive.

 

[Psai]

Man what a douchecanoe

 

[canigetawhatwhat]

I presented one patient to my PD when i auditioned. I matched.

-god mc

 

[RPedigo]

I write a lot of SLOEs and honestly it doesn't matter that much which attendings you worked with, just what their evaluations say. Most of my "top 10%" SLOEs I didn't personally work with the subintern clinically, but the core faculty evaluations and resident evaluations were glowing so it earned them that distinction. I agree with the other posters of (1) don't make a big deal out of it, and (2) just focus your efforts on doing the best you can during your subinternship and impressing the people that you work with.

 

[Smiths11]

Thanks for your insight all, I won't bring it up and focus on my own performance.

 

[gutonc]

Slight correction. It is "who knows what you know." If you are an idiot, or have significant flaws as an applicant, increased visibility is a negative, not a positive.

I thought, and should have said, "it's not what you know, but who you blow".

But that seemed crude.

Until you rephrased it.

 

[AdmiralChz]

Yeah this won't be the last time you work with a real douchenozzle in medicine, did you have that person in your class who just so happened to be hyper-interested and looking at that career in every rotation during 3rd year? Don't be vindictive about it, gunners still have to stand up clinically at the end of the day. We all know it's frustrating, but just focus on yourself.

Also, "auditioning" may not be the word I'd use for an ER rotation, you aren't going for the lead role in Cats.

 

[emergentmd]

I'm not gifted in politics, to say the least. So I don't know if I should do something about this situation or not.

I'm auditioning with 3 other students in the ED. One of the students happens to have had a side gig/job in the department throughout Med Schools, which is good for him and obviously a fair advantage. He's well acquainted with all of the attendings and residents because of this, but again I have no complaints about this - it's just part of the game and he held the job fair in square.

Then it came time to make our shift schedule for the rotation. This kid shamelessly pulled out the attending schedule, which he obviously had prior/inside access to, and conveniently wrote in his name so he gets the most face time with PD and his top lieutenants while the rest of us have like 0 shifts total with the top people.

A few days ago we all had one on one meetings with the PD, who's a very friendly and down to earth guy. We talked about SLOEs and Residency, etc., and he voluntarily mentioned how no student will have an advantage over anyone else based on which attendings he/she works with. I didn't mention the above-mentioned event to him, but I almost wanted to. I'm sure he's telling the truth, but I feel that at the end of the day, if all else was equal between two candidates - the one with the more face time would win. And that bothers me.

Should I say anything about this? Or is this again just part of the game and we should just let it go? Again, I suck at hospital/work politics so that's why I'm bringing it up here.

Thanks

This really bothers you? This is what you call life. He is not a Douche. Would I do that - Likely not but what he is doing is fair game. Its called the Game of life.

As you get into residency, you will find some residents with better set up than you. When you become an attending, same. Don't let this bother you, its call life

 

[Doctor Bob]

douchecanoe

douchecanoe

douchenozzle

Douche

 

[KinesiologyNerd]

Whiners are worse than douches.

 

[TeamZissou]

I agree with those above me but will add this.

You will only benefit by dropping "unfair" from your vocabulary.

 

[Vandalia]

To add a bit more, the actual power dynamics of any EM department (any organization really) often do not match what is written on paper. For example, in academic medicine, the department chair or program director may be the ones that get stuck with the administrative work while those who have real power have the freedom to do other stuff. To make that relevant to this thread, the "lower" attendings are far more likely to actually follow through and provide the specific information that leads to the SLOE. The department chair or program director, on the other hand, have so much on their plate that they will likely only provide generic comments and evaluation that don't do you a whole lot of good.

And academic attendings are usually not complete idiots. They have seen the brown-noser's for decades and know how to deal with them. Believe it or not, we too have been in medical school and know exactly the dynamics that take place. At the start of my residency, the Chief of Staff said, "Don't try to pull the wool over my eyes. Remember, every trick you can possibly think of I have already seen many times before. In fact, I am probably the one who invented it in the first place."

 

[carbonizedeyesockets]

I think one is taking a risk by rotating at a place that they are well known. Being a good tech doesn't mean you're going to be a good resident. In some ways the expectation could be higher for that rotator and it could be pretty easy for him to not meet those expectations. I think he would be more likely to drop down on the rank list than move up. If he was well liked as a tech by the attendings, I would venture to say that he would be ranked to match even if he did not rotate there. "Audition" rotations can cut both ways.

 

[Apollyon]

Yeah..."unfair". The only thing "fair" is the weather. The word to use is "inequitable". And this is not.

 

[Petypet]

Gunners gunna gun. Show up, work hard, you will get noticed for that. Will also get noticed, in a bad way, by being a whiner and complaining.

 

[Dane07MD]

Don't lose too much sleep over it. Rotated at an institution, I never worked with PD or any APDs. Introduced myself sure and expressed my interest at times outside of the ED. Now we are co-faculty members at aforementioned institution.

Insider tip, impress the clerkship director. They are the ones who usually report all the rotating students to selection committees. Be a boss and you'll get recognized.

The over eager types are easy to pick out early, and sometimes that hurts them. Both in residency and beyond. Just be yourself, things will undoubtedly turn out as they should. Don't force it.

 

[DeadCactus]

Sounds like the program you're rotating at is lazy with their scheduling for students on the rotation...

 

[theWUbear]

I am doing my home EM rotation starting next week. I asked for and got a copy of the attending schedule. Most of the students rotating at home in August are people not interested in EM. I guess the right thing to do is to inform all the students that I have the attending schedule and let me know if they want to take a cell phone photo of it before we schedule our shifts?

 

[Psai]

I am doing my home EM rotation starting next week. I asked for and got a copy of the attending schedule. Most of the students rotating at home in August are people not interested in EM. I guess the right thing to do is to inform all the students that I have the attending schedule and let me know if they want to take a cell phone photo of it before we schedule our shifts?

No you don't owe them anything. There's a huge difference between being proactive and helping yourself vs actively trying to screw other people with an advantage that they don't have.

 

[DetectiveAlonzo]

Somebody better call the WAMbulance. lolz

**** him OP. Do yo thang shorty. Stay in your lane and if it works out, it works out. FWIW you now have the ball in your court bruh.

 

[WilcoWorld]

Somebody better call the WAMbulance. lolz

**** him OP. Do yo thang shorty. Stay in your lane and if it works out, it works out. FWIW you now have the ball in your court bruh.

Yep, if you have to be a back-stabbing douchecanoe to match somewhere, you probably don't want to spend 3-4 years there.