Studying for Step 1 using Adderall--how do you feel about it?

[tfom08]

I have heard of quite a few people I know using adderall to study, especially for boards because of the long hours of concentration required. What does everyone out there think about it? On the one hand, we are going to be doctors so giving yourself an edge so you can learn more efficiently is in some way a path to help others. I have read of surgeons using adderall during surgeries that require particularly intense concentration. It is hard to fault someone for that when the goal is to help another person. On the other hand, Step 1 is also somewhat of a competition between medical students with the top scorers being more likely to land a competitive residency. In that way, Adderall use is more like a performance enhancing drug in a sport like cycling or baseball. I would probably be a little upset if a classmate I knew was using adderall scored higher than I did, what do you think? Of course, this is not pertaining to those people who have been prescribed medication for ADHD. Also, I've never used adderall, so I can't compare effectiveness of studying with adderall to studying without adderall. Are there any experiments out there that show a significant difference?

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[Instatewaiter]

I have heard of quite a few people I know using adderall to study, especially for boards because of the long hours of concentration required. What does everyone out there think about it? On the one hand, we are going to be doctors so giving yourself an edge so you can learn more efficiently is in some way a path to help others. I have read of surgeons using adderall during surgeries that require particularly intense concentration. It is hard to fault someone for that when the goal is to help another person. On the other hand, Step 1 is also somewhat of a competition between medical students with the top scorers being more likely to land a competitive residency. In that way, Adderall use is more like a performance enhancing drug in a sport like cycling or baseball. I would probably be a little upset if a classmate I knew was using adderall scored higher than I did, what do you think? Of course, this is not pertaining to those people who have been prescribed medication for ADHD. Also, I've never used adderall, so I can't compare effectiveness of studying with adderall to studying without adderall. Are there any experiments out there that show a significant difference?

Why?

Really, who cares.

 

[Blesbok]

On the one hand, it is cheating in a way. On the other hand, it isn't cheating in the traditional sense that you don't learn the information.

The way I look at it, if it helps you learn more and become a better doctor then it isn't exactly a bad thing. On the other hand, you are correct that if someone finds out it may irritate them and in turn could damage your future career if they report it.

 

[BillyRubinstein]

I have heard of quite a few people I know using adderall to study, especially for boards because of the long hours of concentration required. What does everyone out there think about it? On the one hand, we are going to be doctors so giving yourself an edge so you can learn more efficiently is in some way a path to help others. I have read of surgeons using adderall during surgeries that require particularly intense concentration. It is hard to fault someone for that when the goal is to help another person. On the other hand, Step 1 is also somewhat of a competition between medical students with the top scorers being more likely to land a competitive residency. In that way, Adderall use is more like a performance enhancing drug in a sport like cycling or baseball. I would probably be a little upset if a classmate I knew was using adderall scored higher than I did, what do you think? Of course, this is not pertaining to those people who have been prescribed medication for ADHD. Also, I've never used adderall, so I can't compare effectiveness of studying with adderall to studying without adderall. Are there any experiments out there that show a significant difference?

Personally feel you need to be re-directed to a grand jury and let them put this performance enhancing incident into perspective - just remember that when you patent the cure for cancer one day, your name will forever be read tfom*

On a more serious note, my roomate in med school did it quite often and he had some really funky rxns. to it, like FALLING ASLEEP for a while right after taking it and having no appetite all day only to stuff his face with food at 1:00 a.m. Your choice though.

 

[UditNarayan]

ive never used any of that and dont drink coffee or anything to stay up...

 

[Resolve]

i want to try one, where can i get it?

 

[AK_MD2BE]

Using Adderall while studying during Step 1 (or any exam for that matter) if not prescribed for its actual intent (to treat ADHD) is absolutely cheating. Period. Just like anabolic steroids and HGH help professional/Olympic athletes gain an unfair advantage, so to does Adderall give those who use it an unfair edge. However, I realize that some people have less of a moral/ethica/spiritual conscience than others.

 

[LUBDUBB]

Using Adderall while studying during Step 1 (or any exam for that matter) if not prescribed for its actual intent (to treat ADHD) is absolutely cheating. Period. Just like anabolic steroids and HGH help professional/Olympic athletes gain an unfair advantage, so to does Adderall give those who use it an unfair edge. However, I realize that some people have less of a moral/ethica/spiritual conscience than others.

Better call the NBME and report those students so they can "unfactor" their scores out of the curve.

 

[ROBINHO]

haha it will be funny if in the Future there are Doping Tests.

I don't think Adderall improves your memory or makes you to understand better than the average Joe. maybe it helps u to stay more concentrated but again the brain works in a complex way. The more you rest it processes the informations beter. U can't eat your cake and have it. I doubt there is a Performance Enhancing Drug for mental thinking. Even the person who sleeps better the night before will have an advantage and that cant be illegal either.

 

[R_C_Hutchinson]

What are your feelings on athletes who inject HGH but also work out really hard?

 

[peter90036]

where can i get some ?

i tried snorting coke but i dont like it how it gets my buggers all white... so annoying !

 

[moldovanits]

you can get it prescribed if you tell the physician you cant concentrate. dont buy it off the streets you never know what your getting!

 

[strawberryfield]

if you truly have the chemical imbalance, therefore truly need it and it truly helps you, I see absolutely no problem with this. People who truly have ADD are not performing to their potential without it. I don't see how giving it to someone who didn't have at least some symptoms of ADD would really help all that much.

Frankly, it seems like MANY if not ALL the people I know in med school (myself included) have some degree of ADD, maybe not diagnosed, but still...

 

[jey2283]

Very simple answer! (hopefully many agree)

Step 1 is one of the biggest tests of your life. You generally study for 2 months. The #1 WORST THING YOU CAN DO to prepare for such an IMPORTANT exam is to CHANGE your study system at the last minute. If in the past you had success with this medication, continue to use it. If you have never done it before, why in the *ELL would you experiment with a mind altering medication?

Stick with what works, don't change systems. There are side effects that may not do well with you.

Of course, if you are truly interested, contact your GP and express your concerns and i'm sure they will address your issues. Once again, my advice is to not try new things

 

[jey2283]

Using Adderall while studying during Step 1 (or any exam for that matter) if not prescribed for its actual intent (to treat ADHD) is absolutely cheating. Period. Just like anabolic steroids and HGH help professional/Olympic athletes gain an unfair advantage, so to does Adderall give those who use it an unfair edge. However, I realize that some people have less of a moral/ethica/spiritual conscience than others.

That's crazy. Steroids build your muscles up and make them larger then they could have ever been w/o them. Adderall helps you focus. If your an 'idiot' your just going to be an idiot on speed. If you are not adhd you are going to be on speed to the point you may not focus.

LoL in the words of Goljan, "and that's all i have to say about that."

 

[JMC2010]

i'm pretty sure you have to be extra lame to resort to drugs to do well on tests. man up and do it the old fashioned way and just study hard, period. it's not like the people that do well on Step 1 focus 12 hours a day, every day for 5 weeks...there's plenty of goofing off in there. you don't need drugs to study for step 1, just a little bit of fear and dedication.

 

[velamj]

?

 

[Anastomoses]

Eh, I don't think it's cheating. I tried it three times...unfortunately it doesn't do crap for me except give me a good mood for 3 hours and a dehydrated headache the next day.

Best to get it by legal means, though.

 

[Locrian]

1. Of course it isn't cheating.
-What does that even mean? We aren't playing sports where each of us are competing against eachother and who ever is naturally more gifted wins a big prize.

We are in the business of helping people and saving lives.
If I need a life saving procedure done on me, do I want the doctor who had 12 mental break downs during med school and stuggled and struggled and dicked off of studying, or the obsessive doctor that studied 17 hours a day and knows everything about everything fricking cold? I want the doctor who "cheated" then.

In the same way, I want all my colleagues to be healthy, and if you're not making it through med school except with massive depression, I wouldn't call it "cheating" if you needed to be prescribed anti-depressants, why torture yourself?

Do what ever you need to do, to be happy, and healthy, and be the most knowledgeable physician to help decrease the likely hood that you will adversely harm one of your patients in the future.

2. The people who are offended are probably people that have never used it before. IT DOESN"T MAKE YOU WANT TO DO THINGS YOU DONT WANT TO DO. Another reason I can't even understand why people call it cheating. Sure, pop an adderall, if you don't want to study, youre not going to study -.- you'll probably end up doing some meaningless distracting task and just be really focused on that instead. It still takes the energy, the drive, and the want, to study. More than that, if you can actually focus, the only thing it really does is make the long hours of studying you were capable of doing anyway fun or bearable -.-

Maybe that makes you jealous that the guy who spent 8 hours studying ENJOYED it. And you hated it. I guess that makes it "unfair". Yeah right.

 

[MedicineMike]

I thought it was great

 

[Choo]

If people didn't use adderall for step 1, you'd see no one posting their scores on this website.

 

[link2swim06]

If people didn't use adderall for step 1, you'd see no one posting their scores on this website.

It's not a magic bullet. Actually I suspect the people who actually do better with it probably actually had some undiagnosed ADHD.

There is a study where they gave adderall and a placebo to people taking a test. The both score the same but the people on adderall thought they did a lot better (and it was double blinded).

 

[Locrian]

Most peoples post should include this information.

More realistically read as:
Pathoma videos 2x speed, Goljan audio 1.5x, Goljan Slides
FA 3x
Rapid Review 3x
USMLERx %
Kaplan Q bank %
12 different NBME scores
Uworld % first, 2nd Run, and 3rd run
Uworld assesment 1 & 2
Free 150
Adderall Mg/day over those "6 weeks"... -.-

Seriously. The guys on this forum aren't fooling anyone. Otherwise their all robots

 

[Brain Bucket]

It's not a magic bullet. Actually I suspect the people who actually do better with it probably actually had some undiagnosed ADHD.

There is a study where they gave adderall and a placebo to people taking a test. The both score the same but the people on adderall thought they did a lot better (and it was double blinded).

I'm interested in looking into this further. Could you post a link please?

 

[Locrian]

Here you go: I actually read that same article a while back

http://healthland.time.com/2010/12/...e-you-smarter-but-it-makes-you-think-you-are/

 

[Wordead]

It's not a magic bullet. Actually I suspect the people who actually do better with it probably actually had some undiagnosed ADHD.

There is a study where they gave adderall and a placebo to people taking a test. The both score the same but the people on adderall thought they did a lot better (and it was double blinded).

That study doesn't look like it accounts for what adderall does for a medical student - sit down for 8-10 hours and study at full force. Does anyone think it makes you smarter or improve your memory?

 

[Locrian]

That study doesn't look like it accounts for what adderall does for a medical student - sit down for 8-10 hours and study at full force. Does anyone think it makes you smarter or improve your memory?

Lol. No.

Thats not the best study, there are a multitude of other more credible papers that harp on this.

Simply put, if you absolutely do not have ADHD and you take adderall, the only thing it is going to do for you is make you more interested/enjoy what you are doing, which may make you focused on the material for longer.

The apperent increase in memory is from that fact that you have simply put in more focused hours on the material then you may have otherwise.

Either way, compared to someone who studied the same material as many hours as you did, you won't remember it, or have learned it any quicker than them because of the drug.
But you probably had more fun than they did

 

[Choo]

Lol. No.

Thats not the best study, there are a multitude of other more credible papers that harp on this.

Simply put, if you absolutely do not have ADHD and you take adderall, the only thing it is going to do for you is make you more interested/enjoy what you are doing, which may make you focused on the material for longer.

The apperent increase in memory is from that fact that you have simply put in more focused hours on the material then you may have otherwise.

Either way, compared to someone who studied the same material as many hours as you did, you won't remember it, or have learned it any quicker than them because of the drug.
But you probably had more fun than they did

So then it does increase your memory (if only by its affect on focus). Memory would be tied to knowledge and you'd then be "smarter" but not necessarily more intelligent.

 

[Locrian]

So then it does increase your memory (if only by its affect on focus). Memory would be tied to knowledge and you'd then be "smarter" but not necessarily more intelligent.

Exactly. He gets it!

 

[Brain Bucket]

Here you go: I actually read that same article a while back

http://healthland.time.com/2010/12/...e-you-smarter-but-it-makes-you-think-you-are/

Ah, I thought you'd read the paper. Thanks.

It's obviously not cheating, but it's not something I'd condone unless I knew the long term neurological effects. You could make the same argument for smoking and a million other things.

 

[Choo]

Exactly. He gets it!

But you said no to wordead's question

 

[Locrian]

But you said no to wordead's question

Notice the context and quotation marks "smarter" make me understand he understands the principle to which I am referring -.-

 

[Choo]

Notice the context and quotation marks "smarter" make me understand he understands the principle to which I am referring -.-

I think you are more confused than you think you are.

 

[Locrian]

I think you are more confused than you think you are.

Hah, you're probably right.Touche.

 

[DCBFan]

Here you go: I actually read that same article a while back

http://healthland.time.com/2010/12/...e-you-smarter-but-it-makes-you-think-you-are/

People don't use adderall to take tests, they use it to study for them. The investigators really set up that study incorrectly.

 

[Stingarov]

1. Of course it isn't cheating.
-What does that even mean? We aren't playing sports where each of us are competing against eachother and who ever is naturally more gifted wins a big prize.

We are in the business of helping people and saving lives.
If I need a life saving procedure done on me, do I want the doctor who had 12 mental break downs during med school and stuggled and struggled and dicked off of studying, or the obsessive doctor that studied 17 hours a day and knows everything about everything fricking cold? I want the doctor who "cheated" then.

In the same way, I want all my colleagues to be healthy, and if you're not making it through med school except with massive depression, I wouldn't call it "cheating" if you needed to be prescribed anti-depressants, why torture yourself?

Do what ever you need to do, to be happy, and healthy, and be the most knowledgeable physician to help decrease the likely hood that you will adversely harm one of your patients in the future.

2. The people who are offended are probably people that have never used it before. IT DOESN"T MAKE YOU WANT TO DO THINGS YOU DONT WANT TO DO. Another reason I can't even understand why people call it cheating. Sure, pop an adderall, if you don't want to study, youre not going to study -.- you'll probably end up doing some meaningless distracting task and just be really focused on that instead. It still takes the energy, the drive, and the want, to study. More than that, if you can actually focus, the only thing it really does is make the long hours of studying you were capable of doing anyway fun or bearable -.-

Maybe that makes you jealous that the guy who spent 8 hours studying ENJOYED it. And you hated it. I guess that makes it "unfair". Yeah right.

Best reply yet.

My thoughts: if you have ADHD, as I do, you need to question whether you can take care of patients effectively or may ADHD your way into missing key info that puts the patient in harms way. Once that question is answered, the situation takes care of itself. ER had an episode about this in season 6, good times.

 

[Locrian]

People don't use adderall to take tests, they use it to study for them. The investigators really set up that study incorrectly.

That's true. I did mention that there are many more credible studies that boil down to this:

If student is allowed to study a piece of information for lets say 1 hour
they would do no better on the exam given that hour while "on" adderall, vs. off it.

And I mean absolute study time, even if we consider someone with ADD, if they take adderall and study that 1 hour limit straight, vs. not on adderall being able to focus only in 10 minute increments but still adding up to an hour of study time their performance would still be the same.

Adderall does not make you smarter. If you put in the same amount of hours on or off it, you will perform exactly the same.

The benefit may only come from possibly putting in more hours of real work a day then you normally would like too. Which makes you seem smarter, but thats only because you probably got more hours of studying in then the average guy, not because you put in the same amount of hours + adderall.

 

[bsp2016]

I think it is disgusting how many of you think is is ok/acceptable to lie to a physician to get a medication you dont need. You are supposed to be professionals. It speaks volumes to your character and morals, or lack there of. You are glorified drug seekers and you should really examine you decision making.

 

[wingshorns]

I think it is disgusting how many of you think is is ok/acceptable to lie to a physician to get a medication you dont need. You are supposed to be professionals. It speaks volumes to your character and morals, or lack there of. You are glorified drug seekers and you should really examine you decision making.

Interestingly, in a few years time when they are residents, these same students will likely look down on people coming into the ER feigning illness with the objective of obtaining painkillers etc.

 

[Brain Bucket]

I think it is disgusting how many of you think is is ok/acceptable to lie to a physician to get a medication you dont need. You are supposed to be professionals. It speaks volumes to your character and morals, or lack there of. You are glorified drug seekers and you should really examine you decision making.

No one's lying to anyone. Do you really think the doctor's going to be fooled by that charade? Both parties know exactly what's going on but can't spell it out because of the associated stigma and legal ramifications. I'm not condoning anything illegal. I'm saying 'grow up'.

 

[wingshorns]

No one's lying to anyone. Do you really think the doctor's going to be fooled by that charade? Both parties know exactly what's going on but can't spell it out because of the associated stigma and legal ramifications. I'm not condoning anything illegal. I'm saying 'grow up'.

I know of plenty of students that lied to their doctor in order to obtain the script. Sometimes the physician is more than happy to provide the script even though they know what the actual intent is. Sometimes they provide it because they feel they are unable to factually prove that they student is lying. Similar to when a student goes to request a doctors note for missing an exam due to a "severe headache".

 

[Brain Bucket]

I know of plenty of students that lied to their doctor in order to obtain the script. Sometimes the physician is more than happy to provide the script even though they know what the actual intent is. Sometimes they provide it because they feel they are unable to factually prove that they student is lying. Similar to when a student goes to request a doctors note for missing an exam due to a "severe headache".

All of them either know the student is lying or don't see much of a downside. If they were morally or otherwise opposed, they could easily refer the kid to a psychiatrist instead. The point is... it isn't as big a deal as you're all making it out to be... especially when comparing it to people seeking painkillers.

 

[wingshorns]

All of them either know the student is lying or don't see much of a downside. If they were morally or otherwise opposed, they could easily refer the kid to a psychiatrist instead. The point is... it isn't as big a deal as you're all making it out to be... especially when comparing it to people seeking painkillers.

You are correct that society does not view the two scenarios as the same. It becomes a question of objective vs subjective morality.

 

[Brain Bucket]

You are correct that society does not view the two scenarios as the same. It becomes a question of objective vs subjective morality.

Not even obliquely referring to degrees or forms of morality. That's one can of worms I'm not interested in opening. Merely stating that there's no deception occurring, so the topic of morality does not even arise.

Sent from my GT-N7100 using Tapatalk 4 Beta

 

[Kal EI]

I used caffeine to help me. Same kind of thing.

 

[carddoc33]

I know of plenty of students that lied to their doctor in order to obtain the script. Sometimes the physician is more than happy to provide the script even though they know what the actual intent is. Sometimes they provide it because they feel they are unable to factually prove that they student is lying. Similar to when a student goes to request a doctors note for missing an exam due to a "severe headache".

So the students did what? Told the doctor they couldn't concentrate? To get a pill that helps them concentrate more? Because they couldn't concentrate?

How the hell is that lying?

 

[wingshorns]

So the students did what? Told the doctor they couldn't concentrate? To get a pill that helps them concentrate more? Because they couldn't concentrate?

How the hell is that lying?

I think you are cleverly twisting reality a bit in order to make the point that you would like to make.

If not, then you should read into the indications for the usage of these stimulants. There is a short block in First Aid on ADHD. I assume everyone in this subforum has that book.

 

[carddoc33]

I think you are cleverly twisting reality a bit in order to make the point that you would like to make.

If not, then you should read into the indications for the usage of these stimulants. There is a short block in First Aid on ADHD. I assume everyone in this subforum has that book.

I don't think I'm twisting anything. ADHD is a very subjective diagnosis. A lot of people go undiagnosed as children. If they're having problems concentrating and it's to a point that they can't overcome it, how is that lying to the doctor? They're using it to concentrate and study, not to stay up all night and party to deadmau5 in the clubs.

I'm not going to even address your patronizing second statement. I'm quite used to dealing with med students talking down to me who think they're a lot smarter than they really are.

 

[wingshorns]

I don't think I'm twisting anything. ADHD is a very subjective diagnosis. A lot of people go undiagnosed as children. If they're having problems concentrating and it's to a point that they can't overcome it, how is that lying to the doctor? They're using it to concentrate and study, not to stay up all night and party to deadmau5 in the clubs.

I'm not going to even address your patronizing second statement. I'm quite used to dealing with med students talking down to me who think they're a lot smarter than they really are.

So you are arguing that the majority of medical students who obtain Adderall through legal or illegal means actually would qualify for a honest diagnosis of ADHD? If you know any psychiatrists, I would advise you to discuss this topic with them.

Keep in mind that "my arm hurts" is not reason enough to prescribe morphine. "Can't stay up to party" is not reason enough to prescribe amphetamines. "Can't win a 5-round decision" against Anderson Silva isn't reason enough to provide testosterone or HGH.

I don't know about your contacts, but the people I know did a bit of story telling during their visit to the doctor.

 

[Locrian]

If we lived in a world where alcohol was only something that could be recently synthesized and packaged from some pharma company as a potentially therapeutic drug, and put doctors in charge of prescribing it, well what legitimate reason would they ever have to hand out scripts for Vodka?

So I guess they would look down on people coming it to try and get it, and look down on their friends too because they are just looking for a "good time"?

At least when people come in to get adderall its for some benefit: to themselves, or in the case of student-doctors, for the benefit of others.

People readily have access to substances that are addictive/dangerous, which allow them to hurt them selves or get wasted and potentially hurt others.

And you're focused on blaming the physicians for providing a substance that has more benefit and less risk then either cigarettes or alcohol combined and your argument is about what? -because they maybe don't fit the criteria for some arbitrary rule we've constructed on who can receive adderall, its wrong for a physician to give you access to it when you too also benefit from it?

Arbitrary rules, futile arguments that wouldn't mean crap if everyone could goto a local store about buy stimulants for themselves.... oh wait... they already can -.-