Surgical Programs

[Borja]

Hey. Now, I could be posting this in the wrong place but, since I'm still finding my way around things, I hope someone can guide me. First of all, I would like to say english is not my main language, so excuse any mistakes I make.

I'm a brazilian student, currently studying for the MCAT equivalent of my country. My goal is to become a surgeon and I have tons of questions about it, but for now I really wanted to understand something.

Considering I graduate med school in Brazil, is it possible for me to get into residency programs in the US? Can anyone give me at least a rough explanation on how it works? I know I'm still a long way off, but I like planning things and information is never too much. I thank everyone in advance.

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[Winged Scapula]

Hey. Now, I could be posting this in the wrong place but, since I'm still finding my way around things, I hope someone can guide me. First of all, I would like to say english is not my main language, so excuse any mistakes I make.

I'm a brazilian student, currently studying for the MCAT equivalent of my country. My goal is to become a surgeon and I have tons of questions about it, but for now I really wanted to understand something.

Considering I graduate med school in Brazil, is it possible for me to get into residency programs in the US? Can anyone give me at least a rough explanation on how it works? I know I'm still a long way off, but I like planning things and information is never too much. I thank everyone in advance.

Moving to Pre-Allo but before I do…

It is currently possible for a non-US citizen to do their residency training in the US, after having completed medical school in their home country.

Right now the process is as follows:

1) (recommended) arrange US elective rotations during your final year of medical school to obtain US clinical experience (USCE) and letters of recommendation from US faculty (LORs)
2) (required) register and complete the steps toward ECFMG (Educational Commission on Foreign Medical Grads) certification which include the USMLEs (US Medical License Examination): www.ecfmg.org
While currently many residency programs do not require the ECFMG certificate to interview for positions (it is only required to start residency training), some programs do and foreign applicants have found their applications are better received.
3) (required) register for ERAS (Electronic Residency Application Service): www.eras.org
4) (required) register for NRMP (National Residency Matching Program) and apply for programs: www.nrmp.org
5) (hopefully) interview for programs in the US
6) submit your ROL (rank order list) of programs (usually early February)
7) receive Match results (usually mid March)
8) start residency (usually early June-July 1)

 

[Borja]

Moving to Pre-Allo but before I do…

It is currently possible for a non-US citizen to do their residency training in the US, after having completed medical school in their home country.

Right now the process is as follows:

1) (recommended) arrange US elective rotations during your final year of medical school to obtain US clinical experience (USCE) and letters of recommendation from US faculty (LORs)
2) (required) register and complete the steps toward ECFMG (Educational Commission on Foreign Medical Grads) certification which include the USMLEs (US Medical License Examination): www.ecfmg.org
While currently many residency programs do not require the ECFMG certificate to interview for positions (it is only required to start residency training), some programs do and foreign applicants have found their applications are better received.
3) (required) register for ERAS (Electronic Residency Application Service): www.eras.org
4) (required) register for NRMP (National Residency Matching Program) and apply for programs: www.nrmp.org
5) (hopefully) interview for programs in the US
6) submit your ROL (rank order list) of programs (usually early February)
7) receive Match results (usually mid March)
8) start residency (usually early June-July 1)

That was very thorough. Thank you.

@edit And thank you for moving the thread.

 

[Law2Doc]

But just be aware, it's very hard for people not coming out of US med schools to match into a US residency, and surgery is often a challenge for an IMG. If you know for sure that you want to train in the US and there's any way to do your med school here, that would open a lot of doors.

 

[Borja]

But just be aware, it's very hard for people not coming out of US med schools to match into a US residency, and surgery is often a challenge for an IMG. If you know for sure that you want to train in the US and there's any way to do your med school here, that would open a lot of doors.

I'm aware of that. Brazil has a great medical formation, but the residency programs, especially the surgical ones, are mediocre at best. My plan is to specialize in the US and come back.

 

[allantois]

I'm aware of that. Brazil has a great medical formation, but the residency programs, especially the surgical ones, are mediocre at best. My plan is to specialize in the US and come back.

Tell that to any residency director, and you will be rejected right away.

You can't just come to US for medical training as you imagine it.

PS Whatever exam you study for in your last year of high school in Brazil is by no means an equivalent to MCAT.

 

[Law2Doc]

Tell that to any residency director, and you will be rejected right away.

You can't just come to US for medical training as you imagine it.

PS Whatever exam you study for in your last year of high school in Brazil is by no means an equivalent to MCAT.

Agreed. US residency slots are essentially funded by US taxpayers because we need the doctors we train. Don't expect residencies to be receptive to the idea that they are going to train you to take your skills back home.

 

[Borja]

Tell that to any residency director, and you will be rejected right away.

You can't just come to US for medical training as you imagine it.

PS Whatever exam you study for in your last year of high school in Brazil is by no means an equivalent to MCAT.

I only compared the exam as an equivalent so people would understand. I'm aware that MCAT's are a lot different than the exam I'll be taking.

Agreed. US residency slots are essentially funded by US taxpayers because we need the doctors we train. Don't expect residencies to be receptive to the idea that they are going to train you to take your skills back home.

The idea of specializing in a renowned surgical program has always been my goal. I would expect the US to prefer those willing to stay, and I might, I'm just saying that, for now, my goal is to specialize overseas. All I said is that I plan to come back to Brazil eventually, or even go to another country.

 

[Law2Doc]

...
The idea of specializing in a renowned surgical program has always been my goal. I would expect the US to prefer those willing to stay, and I might, I'm just saying that, for now, my goal is to specialize overseas. All I said is that I plan to come back to Brazil eventually, or even go to another country.

First, IMGs rarely end up in renowned surgical programs. You're going to have to take whatever categorical community GS program you can get. Not MGH. The training will still be great but if you think IMGs waltz into the top programs over the thousands of top US grads you are in for a rude awakening.

Second, when you apply you'd better be able to say with a straight face that your dream is to do bread and butter surgery in underserved US neighborhoods or it's game over. Our training, our rules.

 

[Borja]

First, IMGs rarely end up in renowned surgical programs. You're going to have to take whatever categorical community GS program you can get. Not MGH. The training will still be great but if you think IMGs waltz into the top programs over the thousands of top US grads you are in for a rude awakening.

Second, when you apply you'd better be able to say with a straight face that your dream is to do bread and butter surgery in underserved US neighborhoods or it's game over. Our training, our rules.

Look, I think you guys got it wrong. I'm not even a med student yet. The purpose of this thread was to gather information about overseas specialization, and I thank everyone for the input. The other details you mentioned are just that: details. I wanted to know if it was possible and how it worked. That's it. I have no intention of "waltz" into anything. I understand it's harder for foreign MD's to get into good programs, but hard is not impossible, and that's what the question was: is it possible?

 

[Law2Doc]

Look, I think you guys got it wrong. I'm not even a med student yet. The purpose of this thread was to gather information about overseas specialization, and I thank everyone for the input. The other details you mentioned are just that: details. I wanted to know if it was possible and how it worked. That's it. I have no intention of "waltz" into anything. I understand it's harder for foreign MD's to get into good programs, but hard is not impossible, and that's what the question was: is it possible?

Yes, as of today it's possible for an IMG to end up in a US residency. Less than half who apply are successful. A few years from now, maybe the odds will make it even less realistic though as US enrollment is starting to approximate the number of residency slots. I think WSs outline of steps was useful in terms of how to go about getting into a US residency generally, but that was before you started qualifying it with words like "Renowned". Anyway it sounds like your question is answered. Good luck.

 

[Borja]

Yes, as of today it's possible for an IMG to end up in a US residency. Less than half who apply are successful. A few years from now, maybe the odds will make it even less realistic though as US enrollment is starting to approximate the number of residency slots. I think WSs outline of steps was useful in terms of how to go about getting into a US residency generally, but that was before you started qualifying it with words like "Renowned". Anyway it sounds like your question is answered. Good luck.

I also said that surgical programs in my country are mediocre, so a decent program over there would be renowned here.

 

[Law2Doc]

I also said that surgical programs in my country are mediocre, so a decent program over there would be renowned here.

Fair enough.

 

[Borja]

Fair enough.

It's the sad truth. I'm just glad that some of us are willing to take an extra step not to be mediocre. In my case that step is "overspecializing"

 

[infinitessimal]

Look, I think you guys got it wrong. I'm not even a med student yet. The purpose of this thread was to gather information about overseas specialization, and I thank everyone for the input. The other details you mentioned are just that: details. I wanted to know if it was possible and how it worked. That's it. I have no intention of "waltz" into anything. I understand it's harder for foreign MD's to get into good programs, but hard is not impossible, and that's what the question was: is it possible?

It is possible. I just think everyone here, in addition to giving you the steps of how it works, doesn't want you to be unrealistic and instead be very aware of the limitations you are likely to meet as an international student. That answers your question just as much as the how-to. Also, it's good advice to not advocate your plans to return home, and it's better that someone tell you this now than you blurting this out in residency interviews because you didn't know. If you understand this, by all means, best of luck!

 

[Borja]

It is possible. I just think everyone here, in addition to giving you the steps of how it works, doesn't want you to be unrealistic and instead be very aware of the limitations you are likely to meet as an international student. That answers your question just as much as the how-to. Also, it's good advice to not advocate your plans to return home, and it's better that someone tell you this now than you blurting this out in residency interviews because you didn't know. If you understand this, by all means, best of luck!

Thank you for the advice.