"Sweeping Health Care Plan Passes House"

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Maybe I'm just pessimistic, but I am REALLY worried about falling through the cracks on this. 250K of loans when I'm done. I'm guessing if we get a single payer system, med school tuition will probably go down or be free, but that won't help me. Current docs will be ok because they can pay it off. What happens to the 4-6 classes of medical students coming into the market within the next few years with similar amounts of debt? If salaries go down, how the hell are we going to pay our loans back?

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What incivility from some people! And you would consider yourself rational and intelligent people.

I'm not particularly enamored of the public option. Not because I don't think it means well, or that it's somehow a step in the wrong direction, but rather because I have doubts as to whether or not it will really do much. If the system's broken (hint: it is), then adding another option to that same system probably won't help much.

What is much more interesting to me is the part of the bill that gives the Director of HHS broad, sweeping powers to change the way the system works. This means that positive change is far more likely, as it transfers the burden of doing potentially politically controversial things to someone who isn't worried about reelection.

I will watch with great interest the next few years. It could, indeed, get worse, as several here seem convinced. But I am nevertheless aware that this is the first time all of the players in the health care system (insurance companies, hospitals, pharmaceuticals, etc.) have been unanimous that the current system is unsustainable, and in need of some significant change. It's a broken system, a failed market, and it was long overdue for overhaul.

The histrionics of those who seem, without any sense of irony, to be saying that doctors of the future will essentially have one foot in the poor house as a result of health care reform, I think we can easily chuckle at. I have sincere doubts that doctors will somehow become destitute overnight because of this. I will suggest that perhaps some doctors may have to get comfortable with the idea that they aren't able to maintain the same lifestyle that they have previously, but that certainly means different things for different people, I guess.

Lastly, tort reform. Yes, I get that it's needed. No, I have no idea what shape such legislation ought to take. Sorry to break it to you, but no, it won't be the panacea you think it will, no matter what.
 
honestly after spending the last few weeks reading up on the whole situation, i seriously considered withdrawing all of my apps and just be done with it all. ive been wanting to be a physician since i was young, and to be in this point where the profession will go to crap is unreal...

Seriously, withdraw your applications. Do not going into medicine. Obama is a disaster.
 
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Which "American people" are you referring to? The little voice in your head?

Elections have consequences. Americans overwhelmingly voted for Democrats running on health care reform in 2008. Shocker: the Democrats are delivering on their promise. :)

How about all those town hall meetings and protests?
 
we're screwed. the government can't run medicare/medicaid for ****, but health insurance companies are dishonest and wasteful. talk about a catch-22.
 
3.) You can't compare American healthcare with other countries its not a fair comparison, nearly like apples to buicks.

I'm curious why you can't compare.

4.) Those other countries that everyone loves to talk about their single payer healthcare also take the majority of your money in taxes. France takes 51% of your income, Belgium nearly 56%. (MSN Money)

But, see, now you're comparing apples to Buicks. Those countries with a high tax burden also have much more robust social programs and drastically reduced health care and educational debt.

What they pay in taxes, we simply prefer to hand over to the private sector, and generally get less in return. Either way, the money's gone, it's just a question of who gets it.

5.) The majority of people are happy with their healthcare meaning we should not tear the whole thing down to help the minority.

Well, the fact that people are happy with their healthcare I think is the weakest argument of all. People are going to have to come to terms with the fact that they can't have the smorgasbord of health care to which they've become accustomed. They may end up disliking things initially.

I mean, I get what you're saying, but given that we're moving forward with this legislation, perhaps it's time to start thinking about how you may best get what you want within that framework.
 
The latest Rasmussen Reports national telephone survey finds that 42% now favor the health care plan proposed by President Obama and congressional Democrats. That's down from 45% a week ago. Fifty-four percent (54%) now oppose the legislative effort, up three points since last week. Only 23% of all voters Strongly Support the plan while nearly twice as many (44%) are Strongly Opposed.

Go Obamacare....:rolleyes:
 
Looks like it's time to give up on being a doctor and become a lawyer:D:D:D

No jk, lol this is really stupid and I hope the Senate does not pass this crap bill. They can't muster up something of this magnitude on the American people in a year. This type of plan needs years of thought process and testing to see if it will actually work.
 
Looks like it's time to give up on being a doctor and become a lawyer:D:D:D

No jk, lol this is really stupid and I hope the Senate does not pass this crap bill. They can't muster up something of this magnitude on the American people in a year. This type of plan needs years of thought process and testing to see if it will actually work.

Dude, no offense, but this has been, what, 80 years in coming? I'm getting really amused by these people who pretend as though their resistance to meaningful reform is somehow a rational desire to "sit and think about it".
 
Barack Obama is the f***ing antichrist. I hope he burns in hell forever, stupid POS. If this bill passes, I'm leaving the US as soon as my education is completed. Socialist m***erf***er.

There I said it.

Where are you moving to? Maybe Germany? :smuggrin:

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I don't want to throw flames on a growing fire, but since I don't know enough about our current healthcare system or the bill, I figure I should ask questions:

1. I have somewhat of a skewed perspective towards illegal immigrants because I teach at a high need school where many students are undocumented. As a matter of fact, our valedictorian last year was undocumented. I thought it was wrong that she couldn't receive any government funding for colleges even though she was accepted at many great public institutions. She was trying to obtain citizenship but the US immigration system takes a very long time, think 5+ years. I'm curious to know the type of insurance that she is able to obtain both in our current system and the bill?

2. I'd like to understand the cash flow juxtaposed with physician choice in the current and proposed system. As a teacher, I have several employer-based insurance options that cover a whole gamut of benefits. I chose the plan that doesn't have a monthly deductible from my regular pay and that has the lowest hospital copay during visits. I believe that I have the option to select my own physicians as well. The insurance covers health, dental, and yearly eye exams. It seems like a pretty good setup, but I'd like to know how much all those benefits would cost through a private insurance company?

3. I think once I have an answer to the second question I will be able to formulate questions about the problems with the current system; the main one being, can low-wage Americans afford the kind of care that I take for granted?
 
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I hate polls that say "over half the american people are not in support of this bill." In all honesty, I think there are about 200 people in the US who have actually formed intelligent decisions either for or against. Everyone else is going "wtf does all this mean?!" And they vote for or against based on what their friends say or their politician of choice says.

It's really hard for the average person to understand wtf is going on with all this health care reform when you have words like socialism thrown around and people go "oo they said that in a mean voice, it must be bad! I'm voting no!"

No matter what happens with all this reform, someone is going to get screwed at least a little. Persoanlly I'm hoping the insurance companies get screwed but that's just me.
 
Where are you moving to? Maybe Germany? :smuggrin:

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lol, well the general quality of living isn't bad there...

It isn't all about the money, but if the America of the future doesn't value American ideals, I'm going to step back and consider other options. ObaMANIA has gotten way out of hand.
 
lol, well the general quality of living isn't bad there...

It isn't all about the money, but if the America of the future doesn't value American ideals, I'm going to step back and consider other options. ObaMANIA has gotten way out of hand.

I love how "American" has somehow become synonymous with "Republican". WashMe, I get where you're coming from, but you really ought to put down the Ayn Rand and relax. The lady wasn't an economist, and quite frankly had a very unrealistic, irrational view of the way markets ought to work; hell, even Greenspan finally left the Randian fold.
 
I'm registered independent and truly vote across party lines and find all the melodramatic responses quite hilarious. Years ago all I heard about were the "whiny liberals" and how all they do is complain, complain, complain. All of a sudden, every person that is a proclaimed conservative begins to complain and whine as much, if not more, than any liberal I heard. Yet, none of the ones that complain actually cite evidence for anything. It is always hearsay and personal believes.

The point is to combine senate and house bills into something workable. Honestly, the vast majority of people will NEVER agree. It will always be down the middle regardless of how great the plan is. People do not like compromise. I also see this trillion dollar bill thing thrown out all over the place, yet I have no idea where that number comes in. Does that account for the gains in income/productivity that'd normally be lost because of illness, or the avoidance of massive ED bills? People always say they want tons of choices, but evidence points to the opposite. Satisfaction goes down almost directly with number of choices offered.

Either way, we need to cut down on waste, which everybody says they want to do, but probably won't happen. We, as healthcare professionals, truly believe that we know what is best. We should operate unhindered and get what tests we want regardless of cost. Analysis of data has shown that there was not a statistically significant better health outcome resulting from all these extra tests. One trillion is a big number, but so is the 250-500 billion in estimate waste per year (which isn't counting indirect costs). If we were to cut even 25% off the low number, it'd only be a little more than a decade before the trillion is directly made back (not counting the indirect benefits which are greater than the downsides).

As far as illegal immigrants and healthcare. They make up a shockingly LOW proportion of cost. We're talking single digit percentages. Why? Most of them are younger, healthier and terrified to get help out of fear of being deported. I forget the exact numbers, but it does make virtually no difference in relative cost/expenditures.
 
I bet you it doesn't cost a trillion dollars.

Over ten years, I bet this statement is not as clear cut as it seems. It's not that obvious, and at least make an attempt to see from the perspective of patients without health insurance who cannot provide adequate care for their families.

For everyone worried about their precious paycheck taking a cut to pay for the "illegal's" health care, just remember you're already subsidizing it any time you pay a medical bill or insurance premium in this country. Using the ER as a primary care office is becoming commonplace, and it is absurdly inefficient.
 
Either way, we need to cut down on waste, which everybody says they want to do, but probably won't happen. We, as healthcare professionals, truly believe that we know what is best. We should operate unhindered and get what tests we want regardless of cost. Analysis of data has shown that there was not a statistically significant better health outcome resulting from all these extra tests. One trillion is a big number, but so is the 250-500 billion in estimate waste per year (which isn't counting indirect costs). If we were to cut even 25% off the low number, it'd only be a little more than a decade before the trillion is directly made back (not counting the indirect benefits which are greater than the downsides).

I think you need to stop pulling numbers out of you ass. "oh lets take off 25% here for my calculation" "$250bil to $500bil"
If you want to do some math, get some real numbers from real studies and then do some real calculations.
 
lol, well the general quality of living isn't bad there...

It isn't all about the money, but if the America of the future doesn't value American ideals, I'm going to step back and consider other options. ObaMANIA has gotten way out of hand.

Indeed, Germany does have a good quality of living. It is mostly white people too, and I know how much you'd like that!
 
Same. I told my mom a few weeks ago that this whole crapfest was making me doubt becoming a physician for the first time in my entire life. It really made me super unhappy for a few days to think that my mind went there. Even during difficult classes, MCAT, people telling me not to go into it etc, I never doubted it ... not until then.

Don't go into medicine.
 
Doctors need to look out more for one another. Look at labor unions. Even better, look at farmers: if you lower the price of crops too much, then we'll burn em rather than to feed you with cheap food! Hell,almost every other profession will do what it takes to make sure they get the most pay for the least amount of work.

With the kind of attitudes by a lot of the folks on this board, the pay for docs will go down, and the workload will go up. All because future docs like ourselves are willing to put up with this.

I know that none of us here is into medicine for money alone. But still, we need to look out for ourselves more.
 
I, for one, am very happy about this.
 
I'm glad your rash cleared up in the 3 months it took to see a doc, but that's not good ... at all. Also, do you have any stats on the population differences between Canada vs US, and doc to civilian ratio?? Just curious and must comment that by what you are saying, I still would want to stay a million miles away from a universal system. Even if it's okay and getting better like you said, it feels extremely un-democratic at best, and that's not something I'm looking for.

A 3 month wait is not that odd to me, and I'm in the US. My vision has got so bad I cant read highway signs at any distance. Called the ophthalmologist early sept and got the next earliest appt for late Nov. The dermatologist? I dont even bother with them any more. A couple weeks to a month to see the PCP to get a referral another 2 months to get an appt with an open schedule. All with an expensive (imo) PPO.
...maybe they just dont like me
 
I love how "American" has somehow become synonymous with "Republican". WashMe, I get where you're coming from, but you really ought to put down the Ayn Rand and relax. The lady wasn't an economist, and quite frankly had a very unrealistic, irrational view of the way markets ought to work; hell, even Greenspan finally left the Randian fold.

Well I'm not a Republican, I'm a Libertarian... and I don't think the following cycle is unrealistic:

(1) Docs leave the US to work elsewhere because the policy here is ridiculous.
(2) The quality of new docs decreases because talent follows money and the most talented people won't go to school until their early 30's to carry $250k in loans and make $100k.
(3) Subpar healthcare results from the brain drain.
(4) The government comes up with another socialist idea to try to fix it.
(5) Back to step 1.

Indeed, Germany does have a good quality of living. It is mostly white people too, and I know how much you'd like that!

If I want 98% white people I'll just head back to my hometown. Right now, I'm in a city that's predominantly AA and it's :thumbup:. I like rap music better than country anyway. I'll have to start listening to techno before I move to Germany...
 
I think you need to stop pulling numbers out of you ass. "oh lets take off 25% here for my calculation" "$250bil to $500bil"
If you want to do some math, get some real numbers from real studies and then do some real calculations.

Here's where that $250 billion number comes from
 
Which "American people" are you referring to? The little voice in your head?

Elections have consequences. Americans overwhelmingly voted for Democrats running on health care reform in 2008. Shocker: the Democrats are delivering on their promise. :)


Look at the polls, smart ass.
 
Dont you hate those people who say they are out of a thread and then keep coming back to post? doh well, I have something else to say. lol

I'm curious why you can't compare.
There is no comparison. The economic and political system (aside from societal influences) are simply different. I'm not going to get deep into the differences between these countries, the information is out there, just research it a bit. What works in Belgium simply wouldn't fit America and vice versa.

But, see, now you're comparing apples to Buicks. Those countries with a high tax burden also have much more robust social programs and drastically reduced health care and educational debt.
How so exactly? First your statement makes the assumption that a "robust" social program is worth 55% of my income.....I simply say it is not. Second, you would be hard pressed to make me accept Belgium and France's social programs as "robust". Healthcare and educational debt doesn't really come into play all that much, another poor comparison. On a side note, I would love to go have a beer with you sometime it seems we have alot of great discussion debate to be had. Would be fun :)

What they pay in taxes, we simply prefer to hand over to the private sector, and generally get less in return. Either way, the money's gone, it's just a question of who gets it.

Even if that was completely accurate (which its not) that is exactly my point. Private sector means you and I get the money, small business owners who support the working class. Thats better than giving it to the governmnet in my opinion.

I mean, I get what you're saying, but given that we're moving forward with this legislation, perhaps it's time to start thinking about how you may best get what you want within that framework.

I dont know that we are "moving forward with this legislation" just yet. Its got a long road ahead of it to pass the senate if we can even recognize it by that time.

Indeed, Germany does have a good quality of living. It is mostly white people too, and I know how much you'd like that!

This is just uncalled for.
 
Some important notes:

1) The full text of the bill is here (and it has been ever since it was brought to the floor, before that, there wasn't any bill--just the individual committee ones):

http://docs.house.gov/rules/health/111_ahcaa.pdf

2) The public option in both houses of Congress is only offered via the Exchange to a tiny subset of Americans without insurance through their employers and within certain income limits. The public option is NOT pegged to Medicare and will use negotiated rates by the same standards of private insurers. Moreover, the public option is NOT taxpayer supported. IT will be funded only through premiums, just like private insurance. The government will provide $2 billion in start-up fees, but the public option must repay that money with interest. This is NOT an entitlement program. Frankly, the only difference from private insurers is that the public option will have minimal overhead (2-3% like Medicare). Its severely limited scope will lower its premiums enough to create competition without becoming a dominant player.

3) Illegal immigrants aren't covered under this bill. pp. 228-232 explain the rigorous verification process put in place to ensure that only legal residents of the US can have access to Exchanges, tax credits, the public option, etc.

4) The House bill will cost $891 billion over 10 years. However, the bill is totally paid for and will actually REDUCE the deficit by $109 billion in the first 10 years. These savings are realized through several avenues, but mostly, the bill controls cost increases drastically. The bill also would cover an additional 36 million people over 10 years, increasing the non-elderly insured rate from 83% to 96%. (CBO estimate here: http://www.cbo.gov/ftpdocs/107xx/doc10710/hr3962Dingell_mgr_amendment_update.pdf)

5) The Republican alternative bill is totally and utterly untenable. It does not prevent discrimination due to preexisting conditions, allows insurance to be bought across state lines, and introduces hard caps on medical malpractice. The CBO estimates that this bill will reduce the deficit by $68 billion over 10 years (less than the Democratic bill). It will insure only an additional 3 million people over 10 years, leaving 52 million uninsured. Thus, the percentage of uninsured in the US will remain the same (83%). (CBO estimate here: http://www.cbo.gov/ftpdocs/107xx/doc10705/hr3962amendmentBoehner.pdf)

6) The Democratic bill controls costs. In 10 years, the average premium for an individual would be $5300 per year, and $15,000 per year for a family of 4. Compare that to $13,400 for a family of 4 NOW, and $25,000 in 10 years (without reform). For those keeping count at home, that's around a 1-2% increase, bringing health care premiums back in line with inflation (as opposed to 7-15% increases like currently).


Out of curiosity, I hear a lot about all of the "government-takeover" and "socialism" in this bill, but truth be told, I just don't see it. I guess you could argue that some of the regulations placed on insurers participating in the Exchange constitutes government-intrusion...But, it's really just regulation, like we have of all industries in this country. And even so, the regulation is pretty lenient. Obviously, the public option is too small and emasculated to be considered any sort of government-takeover. In fact, due to its likelihood of covering disproportionately less healthy consumers (and its negotiated rates), the CBO estimates it might actually have HIGHER premiums than comparable private plans.

Seriously, though, I'd like to hear your thoughts. Obviously, this bill is far from perfect, and I would like to hear the parts you find objectionable (if possible, could you point to quotes in the bill itself?).
 
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The only winners last night were the anti-abortion activists. They know for sure now, that there will be no bill with abortion support, they have effectively managed to tie abortion into this bill. It's a lose-lose situation for all sides involved
 
I love how people in here like JaggerPlate use things like 'oh it would never work, its failed horribly in canada'

coming from a Canadian
sorry bud, you can speculate on canadian health care but its pretty great

*not saying that this system would work for the US


I don't want to sound mean, but I work in a public hospital (major one actually) and it's pretty bad right now. Great, as in, yeah, you don't pay everytime you go see a doc.


For specialized care, ie. hyperbaric or vascular surgery, waittime is, quite literally 4-6 months.

Hell, by then you're almost likely to go from non-urgent to urgen. What's the point then?

Canada's system is in trouble too.
 
Seriously, though, I'd like to hear your thoughts. Obviously, this bill is far from perfect, and I would like to hear the parts you find objectionable (if possible, could you point to quotes in the bill itself?).

Don't bother. Most of the people raising hell don't know wtf they're talking about and couldn't cite 2 pages of that bill.
 
I don't want to sound mean, but I work in a public hospital (major one actually) and it's pretty bad right now. Great, as in, yeah, you don't pay everytime you go see a doc.


For specialized care, ie. hyperbaric or vascular surgery, waittime is, quite literally 4-6 months.

Hell, by then you're almost likely to go from non-urgent to urgen. What's the point then?

Canada's system is in trouble too.

This always sounds a lot more to me like a doctor shortage problem than an administration problem. It's not like surgeons are standing around twiddling their thumbs waiting for patients to treat. Most surgeons work a lot of hours and non stop. Find more surgeons and you'll have less wait time.
 
Just a few points of fact and then I'm out of this thread as well.

1.) People who are against this particular bill are not against healthcare reform. Calling them "healthcare reform critics" is inaccurate and disingenuous.

2.) The bill is not "law" as its still got a long way ahead of it to get through the congress and all the changes they will make.

3.) You can't compare American healthcare with other countries its not a fair comparison, nearly like apples to buicks.

4.) Those other countries that everyone loves to talk about their single payer healthcare also take the majority of your money in taxes. France takes 51% of your income, Belgium nearly 56%. (MSN Money)

5.) The majority of people are happy with their healthcare meaning we should not tear the whole thing down to help the minority. There are other options. We haven't addressed tort reform, insurance across state lines, electronic medical records, blah blah blah. There are many things left out that would be required for this attempt at "healthcare reform" to be taken seriously.

6.) No one knows whats actually in the bill to argue about, Pelosi lied and didn't support Obama's promised transparency and refused to put the bill up for us to read like the said.

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I am admittedly still learning about this subject, mostly because my interests lie in pursuing excellence in medicine, and not really being interested in political issues most of the time. That being said, with the limited knowledge I have thus far (I've been starting to read up on this a little in my spare time), these seem like good points. Carry on...
 
This always sounds a lot more to me like a doctor shortage problem than an administration problem. It's not like surgeons are standing around twiddling their thumbs waiting for patients to treat. Most surgeons work a lot of hours and non stop. Find more surgeons and you'll have less wait time.

True. And if we bring 46 million new people into the healthcare system right now, we're going to have the same type of doctor shortage here---and wait times are going to become ridiculously long as a result. That doesn't really seem like improving accessibility to me.
 
if we bring 46 million new people into the healthcare system right now, we're going to have the same type of doctor shortage here---and wait times are going to become ridiculously long as a result.

Just to be clear, are you arguing that we should purposefully deny 46 million people from adequate health care for the benefit of those of us lucky enough to already be healthy?
 
Just to be clear, are you arguing that we should purposefully deny 46 million people from adequate health care for the benefit of those of us lucky enough to already be healthy?

There are only 10 million who are actually uninsured; the 46 million number is what Obamacare likes to cite and are people who choose not to enroll in insurance or medicare or are illegal immigrants.
 
How about all those town hall meetings and protests?

They are irrelevant. If teabaggers want to exercise their will in a representative democracy, go out and win the election.
 
This always sounds a lot more to me like a doctor shortage problem than an administration problem. It's not like surgeons are standing around twiddling their thumbs waiting for patients to treat. Most surgeons work a lot of hours and non stop. Find more surgeons and you'll have less wait time.


And why do you think there's a shortage of doctors around? 2/17 medical school in Canada produce physicians who will emigrate. The single-payer system fails to provide enough incentives for physicians to stay, hence they leave. To make matters worse, that government-run healthcare couldn't generate enough revenue so they needed to minimize healthcare cost. How? Cap medical school admission numbers, and reduce doctor employment in the hospital.


Government run health --> Doctor shortage --> Inferior healthcare.

At least in Canada.
 
Everyone on sdn talk about Canada's case to argue against government-run healthcare, but there are many other developed countries that have efficient, government-run system which provides healthcare for everyone while keeping the qualities decent. I spent more than 10 years of my life in South Korea receiving excellent healthcare. They have a government-run universal healthcare system plus some private insurances that offer more advanced coverage for diseases like cancer. It's like, you have the government-run police force providing general security and protection to everyone and those with money can hire private body guards to get further protection. Physicians there certainly make less than American physicians do, but still enough to lead a respectable upper-middle class life. I find it ridiculous that people here are thinking about quitting their pursuit of medicine just because of this healthcare bill, which is nowhere even close to a government takeover.

People don't factor in the size of the countries and how many uninsured they had compared to us.

Switzerland is a wealthy nation, and something like half their residents living there don't even qualify as citizens. So they can afford running quality universal health care. Other European nations similarly can afford running one because they are much smaller. And even then they run into a plethora of problems. Look at the average waitlist for an organ in any nation with universal health care. We have 50 million uninsured, spend more money than other nation's of equivalent size on health care per capita (Government run won't lower this), not to mention we're currently in an extremely high deficit. It's not a good time for this at all.
 
Jesus. I'm going to laugh the day you become a grown up with bills, etc, and realize, god damn ... I was a young, idealistic, person who got caught up in a really slick marketing campaign. Again though, until then adults are talking, and yes ... feel free to revel in all the successes Obama has had thus far. I know I voted for that Nobel Peace prize after his eleven days in office.

Some of us are grown ups, have and are paying bills, and don't find that to be mutually exclusive to being idealistic. Nor is it intelligent to state that everyone that voted for Obama did so because of a "slick marketing campaign". I think it's safe to say that the 65 million people that voted for Obama had a myriad of reasons for doing so. In my case, I voted for him, because I didn't think the GOP deserved to run a popsicle stand, let alone the country, after eight years of the Bush Administration (six of which also had a GOP majority in the legislative branch).

Elections have consequences. The consequence of the election of W. got us stuck in a couple of wars that have no real end state and have cost us a whole bunch of money.

The consequence of Obama getting elected is that there is going to be changes in the healthcare system. I don't know what the solution to the problem is, but I know it needs to be addressed, and am glad that someone is willing to step up to the plate. Out of all of this will be a compromise that will hopefully result in cleaning up the inefficiencies in the system.

At any rate, just to add to the level of hyperbole on this thread:

"Well, Obama's health plan just passed the house. Looks like Doctors are only going to get paid in chickens from here on out. Good thing you pre-meds can get out now and go to law school."
 
Man there is a lot of crying in this thread. In case you're afraid that the Obantichrist site above is biased, this is from KDKA Pittsburgh/CBS news:

The legislation would require most Americans to carry insurance and provide federal subsidies to those who otherwise could not afford it. Large companies would have to offer coverage to their employees. Both consumers and companies would be slapped with penalties if they defied the government's mandates.

Insurance industry practices such as denying coverage on the basis of pre-existing medical conditions would be banned, and insurers would no longer be able to charge higher premiums on the basis of gender or medical history. In a further slap, the industry would lose its exemption from federal antitrust restrictions on price gouging, bid rigging and market allocation.

At its core, the measure would create a federally regulated marketplace where consumers could shop for coverage. In the bill's most controversial provision, the government would sell insurance, although the Congressional Budget Office forecasts that premiums for it would be more expensive than for policies sold by private firms.

The bill is projected to expand coverage to 36 million uninsured, resulting in 96 percent of the nation's eligible population having insurance.

To pay for the expansion of coverage, the bill cuts Medicare's projected spending by more than $400 billion over a decade. It also imposes a tax surcharge of 5.4 percent on income over $500,000 in the case of individuals and $1 million for families.

The bill was estimated to reduce federal deficits by about $104 billion over a decade, although it lacked two of the key cost-cutting provisions under consideration in the Senate, and its longer-term impact on government red ink was far from clear.

Democrats lined up a range of outside groups behind their legislation, none more important than the AARP, whose support promises political cover against the cuts to Medicare in next year's congressional elections.

The nation's drug companies generally support health care overhaul. And while the powerful insurance industry opposed the legislation, it did so quietly, and the result was that Republicans could not count on the type of advertising campaign that might have peeled away skittish Democrats in swing districts.

I know it's hard to read actual facts, so I'll summarize for you:
1. More people are covered
2. Insurance companies are better regulated
3. More options for insurance buyers
4. Your employer has to cover you if they are over a certain size
5. AMA is on board
6. AARP is on board
7. Drug companies are on board
8. Reduce deficits over time
9. The filthy rich pay more taxes

I'm sure most of the crying is about #9, but very few of you will be making over $500k. As someone who will top out at 100k in the vet med field, with the same amount of debt as a med student, I have very little sympathy for your poor little salaries.

Oh and right now here in lovely America it has taken me 3 months to get a regular doctor's appointment with good insurance. Then I lost that insurance and couldn't go to my doctor OR the hospital where I worked. Yes, worked. There are working people without insurance. Shocking, I know. Anyone who thinks this system is working is living far out to sea on an island of privilege, because it sure isn't working for the rest of us.
 
I am thinking that most of you haven not even thoroughly researched what the plan entails. Here:

http://www.whitehouse.gov/issues/health-care

Edit:
www.factcheck.org

http://www.factcheck.org/2009/09/obamas-health-care-speech/ Fact checking obama's healthcare speech

Unfortunately, I already tried this strategy. Apparently, no one cares about actually being informed when they can just spew unresearched talking points.

Just once, I would like to see an opponent of this bill actually point to a specific part of the bill that justifies their claims. I know this bill isn't perfect, and I have my fair share of troubles with it (public option is too weak, Exchange is limited in scope, and the Stupak anti-abortion amendment...to name a few).
 
I think you need to stop pulling numbers out of you ass. "oh lets take off 25% here for my calculation" "$250bil to $500bil"
If you want to do some math, get some real numbers from real studies and then do some real calculations.

According to the Dartmouth Atlas, roughly 1/3 of medical procedures are unnecessary.
 
Tort reform. Prevent money hungry trial lawyers from inflating the cost on the doctor's end. Lower pay outs to trial lawyers = lower cost of doctor malpractice insurance = lower cost to the consumer...aka the patient.

That's not true. Med mal premiums have still increased in states that have enacted tort reform.

This is because Medical Insurance companies make their money by investing premiums. So if the market takes a hit, your premiums are going up regardless of tort reform.
 
Man there is a lot of crying in this thread. In case you're afraid that the Obantichrist site above is biased, this is from KDKA Pittsburgh/CBS news:



I know it's hard to read actual facts, so I'll summarize for you:
1. More people are covered
2. Insurance companies are better regulated
3. More options for insurance buyers
4. Your employer has to cover you if they are over a certain size
5. AMA is on board
6. AARP is on board
7. Drug companies are on board
8. Reduce deficits over time
9. The filthy rich pay more taxes

I'm sure most of the crying is about #9, but very few of you will be making over $500k. As someone who will top out at 100k in the vet med field, with the same amount of debt as a med student, I have very little sympathy for your poor little salaries.

Oh and right now here in lovely America it has taken me 3 months to get a regular doctor's appointment with good insurance. Then I lost that insurance and couldn't go to my doctor OR the hospital where I worked. Yes, worked. There are working people without insurance. Shocking, I know. Anyone who thinks this system is working is living far out to sea on an island of privilege, because it sure isn't working for the rest of us.

Couldn't have said it better myself. :thumbup:
 
Unfortunately, I already tried this strategy. Apparently, no one cares about actually being informed when they can just spew unresearched talking points.

Just once, I would like to see an opponent of this bill actually point to a specific part of the bill that justifies their claims. I know this bill isn't perfect, and I have my fair share of troubles with it (public option is too weak, Exchange is limited in scope, and the Stupak anti-abortion amendment...to name a few).

This country will never make real progress until the citizens (us) stop following both sides blindly and make choices for ourselves. In case you guys don't realize it, Washington D.C and our political system is as corrupt as it comes and both sides have backs to scratch as well as people and companies to scratch theirs. They rely on you (the citizens) to follow blind ideologies and recite talking points.

And in the words of Forest Gump; " That is all I have to say, about that."
 
I know many people are hoping this to be killed by the senate, but to be honest, I think this is going to go through...
:scared::scared::scared::scared::scared::scared:

DON'T BE SO PESSIMISTIC ;)

like a few others have stated, I will most definitely be second guessing my ambitions to become a physician if this catastrophe passes :(
 
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