take HPSP or not?

[dexadental]

I found out I was awarded the hpsp navy four year scholarship a few days ago, now they're just waiting on the paperwork to come in...then I sign and its a done deal. Problem is I am a little hesitant to take it after reading so many negative responses on this board. What are everyone's views on this? I will be attending Nova Southeastern College of Dental Medicine in Ft Lauderdale, a very pricey school in a very pricey area. I have the numbers all worked out...and have been told by so many people that the debt is worse than a four year obligation. What are your views?

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[IgD]

Make a spreadsheet and figure out the money involved. Talk to dentists on active duty and ask for advice. Meet with your family and write down all the pros and cons. Make a joint decision. I can honestly say things worked out very well for myself and my family. On the other hand you can read posts here were things didn't work out so well for others.

 

[Galo]

Make a spreadsheet and figure out the money involved. Talk to dentists on active duty and ask for advice. Meet with your family and write down all the pros and cons. Make a joint decision. I can honestly say things worked out very well for myself and my family. On the other hand you can read posts here were things didn't work out so well for others.

This by far is the sanest advice I've seen you give. Did you recently start medication?

Most of the people on this board are medical. I have not seen much posted by dentists.

About 3 weeks ago I went to a local dentist, who had served in the Navy, and was stationed in Japan for 3 years. He seemed to have had a good time, but had some of the similar complaints we all experience, lack of support, poor pay, lots of crap that has nothing to do with Dentistry, etc, etc. I think for him it was offset as he was driving an old R32 Skyline, and learned Japanese. The best advice is to start calling up as many Navy dental clinics as you can, and talk to as many Dentists as you can. That should give you more insight into what's going on in your specialty than any one here can tell you. Just remember, you are not only signing up for 4 yrs, its 4, plus an additional 4 of individual ready reserve, where you can get called up and reactivated.

Good luck, and start making phone calls.

 

[island doc]

This by far is the sanest advice I've seen you give. Did you recently start medication?

Most of the people on this board are medical. I have not seen much posted by dentists.

About 3 weeks ago I went to a local dentist, who had served in the Navy, and was stationed in Japan for 3 years. He seemed to have had a good time, but had some of the similar complaints we all experience, lack of support, poor pay, lots of crap that has nothing to do with Dentistry, etc, etc. I think for him it was offset as he was driving an old R32 Skyline, and learned Japanese. The best advice is to start calling up as many Navy dental clinics as you can, and talk to as many Dentists as you can. That should give you more insight into what's going on in your specialty than any one here can tell you. Just remember, you are not only signing up for 4 yrs, its 4, plus an additional 4 of individual ready reserve, where you can get called up and reactivated.

Good luck, and start making phone calls.

Or...IgD is the recepient of the world's first brain transplant.

 

[Aberfly]

and have been told by so many people that the debt is worse than a four year obligation

Obviously that is the question. Which do you value more- personal freedom or financial freedom?
Of course nobody can answer the question for you, because it is a HUGE decision and depends on a variety of factors which are unique to each applicant. Be sure to read as much as you can, and talk to as many people as you can, before you sign. Also, I would not sign the contract the day they hand it to you. Take it home and read it carefully first. Lastly, take a look at the attitude of people on the forum. It is a helpful place.
Good luck.

 

[James Sonne]

Oh, and you weren't "awarded" the scholarship. Don't make that mistake. It's no great honor. They're begging for people to take the scholarships.

It is a good deal, especially if you can't pay. I personally think it's an interesting and exciting prospect to serve in the armed services, but many others don't see that as a benefit. If you're not sure you want it, don't take it. You're signing away 4 full years of your life. You have to be sure you want that, first.

 

[NavyFP]

Ask yourself this question:

Do you like the idea of being in the Navy? If the answer is no - you have your answer. It HAS to go beyond the money.

I still feel there are a lot of good reasons to be in the service. I like what I do and put up with a number of the headaches others have posted. The balance sheet for me is positive. Japan is a cool place to be stationed. Was stationed in Okinawa. It is a nice jumping point to Asia and Austrailia.

Weigh the pros and the cons.

And no one from the IRR in Navy Medicine has been called up since Vietnam. (according to BUMED)

 

[orbitsurgMD]

Ask yourself . . . no one from the IRR in Navy Medicine has been called up since Vietnam. (according to BUMED)

Treat that as what it is, a bit of trivia.

Past performance is not a guarantee of future performance.

Right now, they are worried about accessions. When they are desperate, who will care that is hasn't been since Vietnam that they haven't called up the IRR?

 

[dexadental]

Hey thanks, all the info is good to know. I'm not gonna be stuck paying some nasty debt and I guess I can deal with four years of military service...afterall, I think the experience will look positive in the eyes of many after I come out. I don't think I'd enlist again at the end of four years but of course I'll have to see how I like it. Looks like the HPSP has reeled me in...strictly financial...I don't neccesarily mind the traveling anyways. Just would suck when I start a family.

 

[Aberfly]

I'm not gonna be stuck paying some nasty debt and I guess I can deal with four years of military service...afterall, I think the experience will look positive in the eyes of many after I come out. I don't think I'd enlist again at the end of four years but of course I'll have to see how I like it. Looks like the HPSP has reeled me in...strictly financial...I don't neccesarily mind the traveling anyways. Just would suck when I start a family.

Wow . . . does that ever sound like me right before I signed up. Just be very, very sure of yourself if it is "strictly financial." It was a money decision for myself as well, and now I regret it.

 

[militarymd]

Make a spreadsheet and figure out the money involved. Talk to dentists on active duty and ask for advice. Meet with your family and write down all the pros and cons. Make a joint decision. I can honestly say things worked out very well for myself and my family. On the other hand you can read posts here were things didn't work out so well for others.

very good advice

 

[BKK]

Hey thanks, all the info is good to know. I'm not gonna be stuck paying some nasty debt and I guess I can deal with four years of military service...afterall, I think the experience will look positive in the eyes of many after I come out. I don't think I'd enlist again at the end of four years but of course I'll have to see how I like it. Looks like the HPSP has reeled me in...strictly financial...I don't neccesarily mind the traveling anyways. Just would suck when I start a family.

As a commission officer, you don't "Re-enlist". Talk to some officers and docs, listen to good and bad experiences (with a grain of salt) and come in with a better idea of what you are doing. Those that come in with just dollar signs in the eyes quickly become discouraged and resentful. As I have posted before, you are a Commissioned Officer and a Health Care Professional. Not just a doc that wears funny clothes to the office.

BK

 

[JA_Perez]

Wow . . . does that ever sound like me right before I signed up. Just be very, very sure of yourself if it is "strictly financial." It was a money decision for myself as well, and now I regret it.

Me too!

 

[JA_Perez]

Wow . . . does that ever sound like me right before I signed up. Just be very, very sure of yourself if it is "strictly financial." It was a money decision for myself as well, and now I regret it.

Same case here. I singed thinking about the money, now I am thinking about being free again. Be very caerful!

 

[dexadental]

Thanks for the replies, its pretty late and I'm just torn between signing these papers for this (no offense to anyone in military recruiting here) ******* backwoodsey navy guy recruiter who doesn't keep in touch with me ever. I actually had to call him to find out if the paperwork fell through for me to get the HPSP 4 year deal. Haven't signed anything yet and am really considering not doing it. Granted, being on this site doesn't help...lots of people bashing the military. I don't want to be 28 and not able to settle down. I don't want to be away from my kids when I do plan on having them. It just is unappealing for myself to become a military doc as well. My intentions are strictly financial and part of me says, why don't you just throw the towel in on dentistry all together? So confused...

 

[orbitsurgMD]

. . . I don't want to be 28 and not able to settle down. I don't want to be away from my kids when I do plan on having them. ...

That is a very real possibility for you, so real that if it is a reason for you not to sign, you should not. The U.S. Navy doesn't care whether you ever get to settle down. And they couldn't care less about your family, either.

Tattoo that to your forehead if you have to.

 

[Monty Python]

. The U.S. Navy ......get to settle down..

Those two subjects are mutually exclusive by all definitions and stretches of the imagination.

 

[Croooz]

You don't even know if you want dentistry......THEN WHY EVEN JOIN THE MILITARY?!?!?!

One decision at a time.

 

[dexadental]

You don't even know if you want dentistry......THEN WHY EVEN JOIN THE MILITARY?!?!?!

One decision at a time.

It is not that I don't want to be a dentist, of course I do, or I would not be going to great lengths to find a way to finance the education. That is really the only problem that is in the way. I am now ready to commit to the HPSP program, the two year scholarship to atleast slash the debt in half, which will help a lot. I understand the committment may not be the greatest thing in the world, but a two year scholarship will allow me to get out and still have a reasonable debt to manage. I couldn't do the four year deal, it is just too long to be in something I'm somewhat unsure of. Any people out there do the two year deal? Or three?

 

[studybug]

I found out I was awarded the hpsp navy four year scholarship a few days ago, now they're just waiting on the paperwork to come in...then I sign and its a done deal. Problem is I am a little hesitant to take it after reading so many negative responses on this board. What are everyone's views on this? I will be attending Nova Southeastern College of Dental Medicine in Ft Lauderdale, a very pricey school in a very pricey area. I have the numbers all worked out...and have been told by so many people that the debt is worse than a four year obligation. What are your views?

Hey Dexa, it's not that bad. I spent 5 years and 3 months as a medical corpsman in the navy of which most was spent with the marines. I start using the Air Force HPSP scholarship for Medical school next month. You're going to spend some time with the marines and in the field. if you don't like open desert in california or field environment, it had been better if you used the Air Force which is more competitive by the way. It's really not bad when compared to the benefits and the prestige you get as a commissioned officer who is also a profesional. You have a lot of say also. Usually when you're not in the field a normal day is like a regular clinic/dental visit for the general population. You may not spend more than 30 days in the field in a year. There are years when you may not spend a day. I think you should go for it.

 

[DD214_DOC]

To the OP,

IgD gave very sound advice. I actually did work out pros/cons and such when deciding which branch to choose. I had actually already chosen to do HPSP before I even got into med school.

One thing about the stipend and life during med school. At the current rate, you really won't live much better than any other student -- hopefully that will change soon when the new stipend comes into effect.

For medical guys, because I do not know how the dental side really works, HPSP really pays off during residency, where you can make around 2x what a normal civilian resident makes. I am lucky to be married to a RN so we will live pretty well during med school, and even better during residency.

Regarding the debt, some people say it does not matter. Yes, you can easily pay it off if you manage your finances correctly and have an average practice. I had the unfortunate experience of working in government lending (SBA stuff) for a large national bank. We did commercial loans for small businesses. I saw many, many physician and dental practices applying for startup funds or working capital to expand. (Yes, practices are considered small business. If I remember correctly anything that grosses less than $100M is a small business. Maybe it was $10M I don't remember)

Anyway, I saw a lot of dentists and physicians denied loans because of their DTI ratio from student loans. (This job was a great learning experience, because I had full access to their credit reports; you would be surprised how many people I saw with six-figure incomes and crappy FICO scores) While a $150K+ loan by itself will not matter too much with a sizeable income, once you throw a mortgage and everything else on top of that you risk begins to stack and you become less attractive to loan money to, even if it is for a practice.

 

[i want out]

I found out I was awarded the hpsp navy four year scholarship a few days ago, now they're just waiting on the paperwork to come in...then I sign and its a done deal. Problem is I am a little hesitant to take it after reading so many negative responses on this board. What are everyone's views on this? I will be attending Nova Southeastern College of Dental Medicine in Ft Lauderdale, a very pricey school in a very pricey area. I have the numbers all worked out...and have been told by so many people that the debt is worse than a four year obligation. What are your views?

I am medical, not dental. So my knowledge of the dental side of the house is second hand information.

what I can tell you, is that every first tour dental doc that I have worked with (2 of them) has left as soon as they could.

They both mentioned that the Navy was a good place for them to learn some stuff about practice management, but both were in a single dentist platform. I doubt you will learn much about practice management in a big clinic where your just an RVU machine.

As for Family, I am on my second deployment to the sandbox in less than a year, and I have a daughter at home thats less than a year old, so I am missing quite a number of developmental milestones.

Pretty much every dentist we have here is at least LCDR or above with the majority being CAPT (O6) for you non Navy types.

THat means that if your an LT, your GOING to be deployed, and it will likely be the ones that the CAPT, CDR, and LCDR said no to. That should tell you how desirable the location you will go to is.

Now days even taking an overseas clinic doesn't assure that you won't be pulled to come to the sandbox.

So, if you want to be with your future kids, then today's Navy probably isn't for you.

If you want to do some things that you would never have a chance to do anywhere else in world, like be the Helo Control officer (air traffic control) or count $800,000 in cash as a disbursing auditor, or Conn a ship then maybe the Navy is for you, but if you want to do Dentistry, then look at paying the loans back in a conventional way.

i want out

 

[dexadental]

I see you want out, I don't feel like paying the bank back most of my life...maybe if I chose a state school liek UF to attend, but I chose Nova, and now I'm satisfied with my decision to do the Navy HPSP. Each day I become more and more content with my decision, maybe its because I want to make a difference somehow in the world. I wouldn't mind being deployed, and I am 21 right now, in four years, 25, than 4 more, 29. I don't mind having kids at that age, and being able to start a practice or join one debt free. Each person has their own reasons for joining and I think in the end, you really have to make the decision for yourself only. I see that many people are dissatisfied with the program, but for many, it has helped them achieve something they couldn't have done otherwise. The contract is a deal, and like anything, a sacrifice. Maybe this is what people don't understand. You'll have to make a SACRIFICE, yes, not be some hot shot doc straight out of school. But I can live with that for four years, and then specialize on my own...who knows, maybe I'll love it and specialize with them. I'm glad other people here have posted their positive experiences.

 

[orbitsurgMD]

I see you want out, I don't feel like paying the bank back most of my life...maybe if I chose a state school liek UF to attend, but I chose Nova, and now I'm satisfied with my decision to do the Navy HPSP. Each day I become more and more content with my decision, maybe its because I want to make a difference somehow in the world. I wouldn't mind being deployed, and I am 21 right now, in four years, 25, than 4 more, 29. I don't mind having kids at that age, and being able to start a practice or join one debt free. Each person has their own reasons for joining and I think in the end, you really have to make the decision for yourself only. I see that many people are dissatisfied with the program, but for many, it has helped them achieve something they couldn't have done otherwise. The contract is a deal, and like anything, a sacrifice. Maybe this is what people don't understand. You'll have to make a SACRIFICE, yes, not be some hot shot doc straight out of school. But I can live with that for four years, and then specialize on my own...who knows, maybe I'll love it and specialize with them. I'm glad other people here have posted their positive experiences.

You really should talk to some active-duty practicing dentists before you decide. Try to get in touch with both general dentists and specialists, if you can find any. If general practice dentistry is your interest, you should get plenty of experience (maybe not cosmetics, though--something to think about if you transition to civilian practice one day). Most clinics have DTs, so there is a platform for personnel support for practitioners, but how well that actually comes through is something you should leave for your inquiries. Also, consider the possibility that you might want to specialize. It would be good to know what your chances of getting a periodontics or orthodontics residency would be once in service. If you had your heart set on those options but discovered the service only wanted you for general dentistry, you could be in for a disappointment. Also consider loan repayment options after graduation. If you do want to keep open the option of specializing, that might be a better way to go: take the military after you do your training of choice.

 

[i want out]

I see you want out, I don't feel like paying the bank back most of my life...maybe if I chose a state school liek UF to attend, but I chose Nova, and now I'm satisfied with my decision to do the Navy HPSP. Each day I become more and more content with my decision, maybe its because I want to make a difference somehow in the world. I wouldn't mind being deployed, and I am 21 right now, in four years, 25, than 4 more, 29. I don't mind having kids at that age, and being able to start a practice or join one debt free. Each person has their own reasons for joining and I think in the end, you really have to make the decision for yourself only. I see that many people are dissatisfied with the program, but for many, it has helped them achieve something they couldn't have done otherwise. The contract is a deal, and like anything, a sacrifice. Maybe this is what people don't understand. You'll have to make a SACRIFICE, yes, not be some hot shot doc straight out of school. But I can live with that for four years, and then specialize on my own...who knows, maybe I'll love it and specialize with them. I'm glad other people here have posted their positive experiences.

One of the reasons I accepted the scholarship 8 years ago, was because I wanted to follow in the steps of my brother and Father, and spend some time in active service of my nation.
I also couldn't imagine how the hell I would pay back loans that would be at least $160,000 by the time I graduated from school, then pay back close to $250,000 over the life of the loans.
At the time that debt seemed insurmountable, now it sounds a lot more manageable.
Don't get me wrong, I am really happy about a couple things.
1: I will go into residency debt free.
2: I should have the GI bill to supplement my residency pay.
3: I can't seem to come up with a number three.

The unhappy list is much longer, and while I won't go into all of it, I will start.
1: deployed twice away from family when other folks in same clinic network haven't been on a single deployment.
2: risk my life and chain of command refused to let me have either a side arm, or a flak jacket even though both were available, and I was, and am qual'd with the 9mm and m16.
3: hung out to dry on single GMO platform with CO that said "medical is pretty much a waste of space" then proceeded to demonstrate his feelings.
4: Nobody in my medical department that had been to sea in the last 15 years.
5: Nobody in the medical chain of command had any sea duty either, so no help there.
6: etc

You are correct, that you need to make your own decision, and it appears that you have already done that, I hope its a decision that you can live with, and that it makes you happy.

i want out

 

[JohnUC33]

I found out I was awarded the hpsp navy four year scholarship a few days ago, now they're just waiting on the paperwork to come in...then I sign and its a done deal. Problem is I am a little hesitant to take it after reading so many negative responses on this board. What are everyone's views on this? I will be attending Nova Southeastern College of Dental Medicine in Ft Lauderdale, a very pricey school in a very pricey area. I have the numbers all worked out...and have been told by so many people that the debt is worse than a four year obligation. What are your views?

I have a cousin who did HSPS for the navy and is a dentist. As I was considering HSPS for med school, her advice to me was to only take HSPS if I have a love for the military. Otherwise, I would hate every minute of it.

 

[DogFaceMedic]

I have a great deal of respect for those who enlist to serve, and they deserve to be treated better than the way bureaucrats and elitists treat them. So, I always try to be part of the solution and give them both the respect and health care they deserve.

Having said that: If you don't like the military; you won't like serving in it.

Having said that: I don't mind saluting nurses - they are Americans too.

And, after all is said and done, my HPSP package tuition, pay, bonuses, no debt interest, etc.., is worth ~$500,000.

 

[former military]

I have a great deal of respect for those who enlist to serve, and they deserve to be treated better than the way bureaucrats and elitists treat them. So, I always try to be part of the solution and give them both the respect and health care they deserve.

Having said that: If you don't like the military; you won't like serving in it.

Having said that: I don't mind saluting nurses - they are Americans too.

And, after all is said and done, my HPSP package tuition, pay, bonuses, no debt interest, etc.., is worth ~$500,000.

It is not a big deal to salute nurses... it is a big deal to have policy made about how to best serve patients medical problems made and enforced by nurses, pharmacists, physical therapists, and veterinarians with rank... you will get to experience how that feels. These people will be able to tell you how to run your ENT clinic or your oncology clinic with absolutely no knowledge of how things work there or what goes on... never will they come spend a couple of hours to find out.

You think you won the 500K mini lottery? You will be surprised both at the emotional cost and opportunity cost you will pay in the future... just my guess from 11 years in major USAF medical facilities interacting will all sorts of physicians.

 

[DogFaceMedic]

Emotional Cost? Show some backbone. All docs should go to basic training.

I know a great deal more about bureaucracies than most, and I know how to resist the dark side. Bureaucracies always try to dictate pt care and control costs. It is up to us to stand by our treatment decisions and enforce them.

I understand the disadvantages of the military bureaucracy along with all of the snivelling serpants (civil servants) that infect it.

We are in agreement that socialized, government controlled medicine is highly problematic. But, the attacks on the good people, the elitism, and denegration of the enlisted and their dependents rubs me the wrong way.

I'll work on solutions long before I feel sorry for myself.

 

[dexadental]

Emotional Cost? Show some backbone. All docs should go to basic training.

I know a great deal more about bureaucracies than most, and I know how to resist the dark side. Bureaucracies always try to dictate pt care and control costs. It is up to us to stand by our treatment decisions and enforce them.

I understand the disadvantages of the military bureaucracy along with all of the snivelling serpants (civil servants) that infect it.

We are in agreement that socialized, government controlled medicine is highly problematic. But, the attacks on the good people, the elitism, and denegration of the enlisted and their dependents rubs me the wrong way.

I'll work on solutions long before I feel sorry for myself.

I like this post. I feel the same way, I'm not going to be in the military for 11+ years like the above poster; plan to do my time, and in four years be debt free. If I were going to medical school with the residency, I probably would not have done the military option, for me that is just too long to do something I'm not truly at ease with. Personally, the decision to enter the military after dental school and pay them back for my education will be one largely made based on a financial decision, but in the end, I've always wanted to serve America and the military has always fascinated me. It really irks me when people get angry that others, who have paid their dues via other life choices (not attending medical school or professional school), get mad at the fact that yes, they will be lower in rank and thus under orders. Just because you are a graduate of dental or medical school does not make one a God. I think serving in the military may be a humbling experience..