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Fix that attitude and you might get in somewhere next cycle.
Talking about surgery in interviews
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Fix that attitude and you might get in somewhere next cycle.
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This is just getting ridiculous...
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This argument is interesting.
Yes, there are well known people everywhere, and some residencies with large reputations are associated with schools that have smaller reputations.
But, let's say you are undecided in your research focus and specialty choice. You want to keep open the possibility of trying for the most competitive specialties, in case those strike your fancy later during medical school. You then need to pick a school that maximizes your chance of 1) getting a good letter from a highly respected department and of 2) getting involved with research that is going to produce something. Those chances are maximized at the schools that are traditionally considered all-around good, right?
On the other hand, it does make sense to me that people can get around the letter aspect with away rotations. And, I suppose you can, if you're not MSTP, also do 'away research' over the first summer and/or fifth year external fellowship.
Both these options are feasible but potentially inconvenient, given real-world issues like money or family or bureaucratic hassle and lack of advising. Not everyone takes advantage of away rotations/research; they can't capitalize on it like someone who actually goes to that institution can. Perhaps this explains why there's typically a home-institution or regional preference in match results. Any other explanations?
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You don't need to pick a school that "maximizes" your chances at these things to match well. You will have opportunities at any MSTP. The whole situation is much more complicated than your post. That said there's nothing wrong with attending the best school you get into, but my point was and still is that you will have strong opportunities at any MSTP.
Yes, as you alluded to, when you hit 30 years old you often have a family or strong ties your region and/or school, and thus don't really want to leave.
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Perhaps my sarcasm was unwarranted, but the comment was 100% serious. As an applicant and now as MSTP student, your attitude is matters. This year we've had several very arrogant people, and everyone remarked upon them when they left! Your interviewers aren't blind to your attitude, and those that read your applications aren't stupid either. If you have an attitude problem, then we don't want you at our program. Maybe this wasn't your problem. I'm simply recommending that you check how you come across on paper and during interviews.
You've said that you can convince those reading your applications (fully qualified MSTP graduates who are now professors and program directors) that you can handle surgery and research, as if you stand out from all the other stellar applicants. And maybe you can handle research/surgery; but thats not the attitude I would have wanted to purvey to the schools I applied to.
Also--I too only applied to the top 20 schools. You're welcome to shoot for the best, I just don't understand why you didn't apply to canadian schools too, if they are "almost as good". If you want to risk being a reapplicant you should have a solid back up plan.
Happy Christmas!
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Okay, thanks for expanding on that. Would you mind reading over this essay and telling me if it comes off as arrogant? Don't you have to stand out from all the other applicants to be able to convince a top school that it should accept you...but then where do you draw the line between confidence and arrogance?
What makes you unique, someonewho will add to the ____________ community? (250 words)
What makes me unique is not one specific aspect of my background, but rather the combination of a wide range of interests and aspirations and the ability to follow through on them. My goal of an MD/PhD followed by a surgical specialization is unusual, but by no means unique. However, I am also interested in the broader economic and public policy dimensions of medicine (which I am pursuing by taking courses in business and economics this year); and due to my experience with both the Canadian and American health care systems I have a distinctive perspective on public health and the role of government in it. Ultimately, I would like to be in a position to direct a team of researchers (this could be in academe, industry, or a governmental agency) and also have the flexibility to be involved to some degree in these other interests.
I realize that this is a lofty ambition and will be difficult to achieve, but I believe that I have, or am in the process of developing, the necessary skill set to do so. My academic performance and reference letters should speak for themselves in terms of my intellectual ability. Through my various extracurricular activities, I have been put in a number of challenging leadership situations, and I hope to continue to develop my leadership and interpersonal skills during my time in medical school. Finally, burnout is a serious concern for MD/PhDs, but I think I will be able to avoid this through my balanced and healthy lifestyle.
I did apply to some Canadian schools, but they don't send interview invites until February.
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Of course it's arrogant. Confidence is a quiet peace (which also reassures others) that you know what you are doing because of your experience. Arrogance is basically what you have exhibited throughout this thread.
Let me deal with the structural issues of the above before discussing more broadly. First, you repeat the word "unique" in a short space. That's redundant. Then you mention directing a team of researchers, which is just absurd at this point in your career. First direct your own lab before making up ambitions of running a program project. Then you mention industry and government, which are no-nos for MD/PhD programs: they are academic researchers and they want academic researchers, not private practice clinicians or even industrial researchers. Then you say that you have the necessary skill set to run a group of researchers, but provide no evidence for this. What is your mentorship experience, and in a lab in particular? Have you guided multiple undergraduate students through research projects? Please realize that I'm not trying to mock you, but you don't understand *what* skill set is necessary to manage a group of researchers if you yourself have never mentored even one junior researcher. Then you mention your reference letters and academic performance, which is redundant, and academic performance at any rate has nothing to do with running a lab or performing basic science research.
The first layer of humbleness (which can be easily faked) is NOT explicitly discussing your accomplishments as accomplishments. The application already gives you plenty of space to list them, your MCAT and GPA, and your recommendations are attached. There is no need to say that these things highlight your intellectual ability (and being outstanding compared to others) since you don't know what others have in their applications to make them outstanding. Perhaps what they lack in MCAT and GPA they make up with the rigor of their coursework, other degrees, years of work/life experience, etc.
The second layer of humbleness (which is much harder to fake) is to earnestly attribute your accomplishments to others who made them possible: God, family, circumstances, mentors, friends, etc. You don't have to do that here, but if you honestly feel that way, it can be put in in some fashion. I don't think it really adds to your application either way and can be mistaken for fake humility.
My take on how to answer that question is to never mention "What makes me unique." It sounds ridiculous. Nor should you discuss things that are objective factors in your application, such as stats or LORs. This question is meant for you to state something unknown to the adcom that makes you uniquely qualified for ______. This is going to be an experience, not a number. Only you can come up with that, but just speak about its relatedness to the question in a more tangential way.
Read the admissions brochures and school magazine (most of them put out a magazine once a month or once a semester) to see the sort of plastic writing style they enjoy reading.
You don't need to sell yourself here. Your stats are good. You need to identify unique life experience that helps fill in those intangible aspects of medicine and research to provide the adcom a more complete picture of who you are.
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QofQuimica
Seriously, dude, I think you're overreacting....
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OK, 'fess up. You're trolling us, right? I have to give you props for getting us all going for a while there.
Does the essay really reek of arrogance? I think it could be much worse. The intellectual ability and skill set comments might go against you, but I think the main problem with the essay is that it didn't really answer the question. You had a great start with your perspectives on the American and Canadian health care systems. I think you should have brought in more of your life experiences into the essay. You mentioned your passion for jazz music, your experiences in Costa Rica, etc.
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I don't think this essay reeks of arrogance....I don't really want to get into accusing others of arrogance, because lets be real, all people aiming to be academic scientist have arrogant moments...we have to at least think we are smart enough to be "scientists" and go to "ivys". But....this essay reeks of disorganization to me. It doesn't feel like the writer is very clear on what they want and honestly feels surface level.
I don't think the OPs problem was getting interviews though was it? I thought it was a concern that there were some post-interview rejections for MD/PhD programs.
For MD only I think the applicaiton might come across as a bit cold. There is no mention for example that the OP has any unique experience in caring for others....nothing MD-like. It is ironically clear that the poster is not so much interested in being a doctor as being.......something else.
Anyways. Biggest issue is DISORGANIZED and not really cognitively cohesive.
I don't think the OPs problem was getting interviews though was it? I thought it was a concern that there were some post-interview rejections for MD/PhD programs.
For MD only I think the applicaiton might come across as a bit cold. There is no mention for example that the OP has any unique experience in caring for others....nothing MD-like. It is ironically clear that the poster is not so much interested in being a doctor as being.......something else.
Anyways. Biggest issue is DISORGANIZED and not really cognitively cohesive.
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I think the OP was concerned about the lack of interviews from both MSTPs and MD programs on top of being rejected post-interviews at places he was invited to.
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agree with posters above - it doesn't smack of arrogance, but it's far from a convincing essay. I think at worst this essay is neutral / nothing added.
I don't think the essay reeks of arrogance, however, it unfortunately is rather bland in a sort of I'm-telling-you kind of way instead of the descriptive style that is usually used. The only thing I can tell that is presumptuous at a cursory glance is the very informal conversational tone and diction used. It's one thing to sit across from someonr and tell them this but it's quite another to write something for them to read and being overfamiliar with the reader could rub some people the wrong way.
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Pretty much. The biggest concern is really the pre-interview MD rejections, because I expected to be smacked down by some MD/PhD programs for the surgery thing + not huge amount of research experience...so maybe this would be better in the pre-allo forum. The Hopkins rejection hurt for sure, but that's just one school.
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I can't tell if this is supposed to be funny or what...
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Fair enough. I figured that after starting with "this is all the stuff I want to do" I needed to provide some support for that. But I can see why some of those comments could rub adcoms the wrong way, or at least be unnecessary. Thanks for the advice!
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I don't know about you guys, but that bolded sentence definitely came off as arrogant to me. If these things "speak for themselves," why did you even bring this up in the essay?
I think mercapto hit the nail on the head regarding your essay, especially regarding not explicitly stating your accomplishments as accomplishments.
I'm not sure you seriously considered schools beyond the "top of the top" in rankings. By seriously considered I mean exhaustively researched, not just applied.
Here's a Malcolm Gladwell piece on rankings that seems relevant:
http://www.newyorker.com/reporting/2011/02/14/110214fa_fact_gladwell?currentPage=all
The more specific about their program you are in your "why this school/why you" essays, the better you convey your interest and the background investigation you made to make sure you were a good fit for the schools you applied to. This goes double when it gets to interviews, I think. Even the most top-ranked school wants to think that you love it because you fit with its specific quirks and facets, not that you love its reputation. You might try and counter any mistakes you may have previously made with letters of interest to schools that are just sitting on your app, or take the lesson to your later interviews or to next cycle. Have you heard back from all your schools re MD-only interviews? Do you still have interviews scheduled?
Here's a Malcolm Gladwell piece on rankings that seems relevant:
http://www.newyorker.com/reporting/2011/02/14/110214fa_fact_gladwell?currentPage=all
The more specific about their program you are in your "why this school/why you" essays, the better you convey your interest and the background investigation you made to make sure you were a good fit for the schools you applied to. This goes double when it gets to interviews, I think. Even the most top-ranked school wants to think that you love it because you fit with its specific quirks and facets, not that you love its reputation. You might try and counter any mistakes you may have previously made with letters of interest to schools that are just sitting on your app, or take the lesson to your later interviews or to next cycle. Have you heard back from all your schools re MD-only interviews? Do you still have interviews scheduled?
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Assuming the OP is real and not trolling I think a part of his/her issues are due to some lack of maturity. This comes across in the essay and posts. For a bit of perspective the OP can look at it like you are talking to a high school student who is making the same comments about a college and their future goals.
They say they have to go to Hopkins b/c they know they will get a great education there based on XYZ. But the truth is they can't really know if its that much different than the education at Brown, or its long term effects on getting into Med school as an incoming freshman.
One problem for your apps/interviews may be that you are coming across as immature/arrogant while you think it is determination/confidence. Making grandiose statements only carries weight if you have the body of experience to back the talk.
Here are two points that may be of value. I recently worked with a surgeon who sits on the admissions committee for one of the Harvard surgical residency programs and this is their interview season. He and a chief resident were laughing at one applicant who started their essay with a grandiose statement about their "calling" to surgery and their belief that they would be a part of leading and changing the field of surgery at Harvard. They wanted to be a thought leader and Harvard was where they could achieve this life goal...
Stuff like that gets laughed at by people who have the experience to know better.
The applicant that gets the serious look is the one who can say that, " I love surgery, I love being in the OR b/c of X months doing ABC surgeries with Dr. A". I know its hard work, I know that this Harvard program as well as a lot of surgical residency programs have a 20%+ drop out rate. I have thought about this and the reasons why this is true. I have seen and talked to the residents working 14 days straight on their Thoracic rotation and I think I can do that b/c it is worth it to have the opportunity to eventually be an attending and not be working like that. I love surgery so much that I think I can put up with the rigors of residency so I can be a surgeon and spend my career doing what I love and hopefully being great at it..
The second applicant is not saying anything "important" but you can see the difference and which one you would take seriously.
They say they have to go to Hopkins b/c they know they will get a great education there based on XYZ. But the truth is they can't really know if its that much different than the education at Brown, or its long term effects on getting into Med school as an incoming freshman.
One problem for your apps/interviews may be that you are coming across as immature/arrogant while you think it is determination/confidence. Making grandiose statements only carries weight if you have the body of experience to back the talk.
Here are two points that may be of value. I recently worked with a surgeon who sits on the admissions committee for one of the Harvard surgical residency programs and this is their interview season. He and a chief resident were laughing at one applicant who started their essay with a grandiose statement about their "calling" to surgery and their belief that they would be a part of leading and changing the field of surgery at Harvard. They wanted to be a thought leader and Harvard was where they could achieve this life goal...
Stuff like that gets laughed at by people who have the experience to know better.
The applicant that gets the serious look is the one who can say that, " I love surgery, I love being in the OR b/c of X months doing ABC surgeries with Dr. A". I know its hard work, I know that this Harvard program as well as a lot of surgical residency programs have a 20%+ drop out rate. I have thought about this and the reasons why this is true. I have seen and talked to the residents working 14 days straight on their Thoracic rotation and I think I can do that b/c it is worth it to have the opportunity to eventually be an attending and not be working like that. I love surgery so much that I think I can put up with the rigors of residency so I can be a surgeon and spend my career doing what I love and hopefully being great at it..
The second applicant is not saying anything "important" but you can see the difference and which one you would take seriously.
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I don't know about you guys, but that bolded sentence definitely came off as arrogant to me. If these things "speak for themselves," why did you even bring this up in the essay?
Fair enough, but is a school really going to reject me pre-interview based solely on this one sentence?
I think what people are trying to say is that that particular sentence may not be an isolated occurence but may be the most obvious manifestion (to readers on SDN) of a broader pattern. And it may be this pattern with its associated subtle or nonsubtle signs that may have rubbed different people the wrong way that ultimately led to adverse outcomes. But that's just my speculation.
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These were proofread by a university professor (in a humanities discipline).
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Cool article, although it kind of comes off like one big promo for Penn State haha. I don't have any more interviews scheduled at this point, but I'm waiting on a bunch of schools still, most of which were submitted somewhat on the late side. I haven't heard about anyone sending letters of interest to schools...is this done commonly?
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There are multiple errors. Many sentences should be re-written or re-structured. Your flow is bad. Your word choice and tone are poor throughout the essay. Your focus of the essay is far too non-specific (talking about healthcare, public policy, public health, etc). You don't even talk about contributing to the community.
Here is part of one of your great sentences, unedited: "; and due to my experience with both the Canadian and American health care systems I have a distinctive perspective on public health and the role of government in it."
Hah!
"What makes me unique" is your first sentence. Seriously? Your professor is an idiot or really doesn't care about you.
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I'm really not sure what I've done to warrant this kind of sarcasm. How would you reword that sentence then?
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Ahh, point taken. Looking back on it, this wasn't a great essay and I see how parts of it could rub people the wrong way.
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Alright, so your third sentence is this whopper:
However, I am also interested in the broader economic and public policy dimensions of medicine (which I am pursuing by taking courses in business and economics this year); and due to my experience with both the Canadian and American health care systems I have a distinctive perspective on public health and the role of government in it.
A general rule is to stagger longer sentences with shorter sentences. Just for the first paragraph:
1) cut out the whole first sentence.
2) restructure the paragraph, remove waste, be as specific as possible for your training level for goals/desires/attributes/talents. The focus of this essay is on the community and how you will contribute to it uniquely, not how you are unique.
3) a distinct perspective, not distinctive perspective
4) you shouldn't need a semi-colon in an essay this short
I hope to use my M.D./Ph.D. training to improve the quality of life in my community on individual and community levels through research, clinical practice, and involvement in healthcare policy. At this point in my education, I envision leading a university-based research group for most of my professional time in the same concentration as my medical training. My experiences with both the Canadian and American health care and research systems have stimulated a continuing interest in healthcare and research policy. I anticipate that my training and interactions with physicians, researchers, and patients will give me a unique perspective that will enable me to benefit the community at multiple levels.
I spent about 10 minutes with that, so it's not perfect, and I couldn't put any specific details about you because I don't know them. Some people will care about the essays more than others. I am very picky, and what you posted was not as good as it could be. We can always improve our writing, and it is an aspect of your app that could be improved.
However, I am also interested in the broader economic and public policy dimensions of medicine (which I am pursuing by taking courses in business and economics this year); and due to my experience with both the Canadian and American health care systems I have a distinctive perspective on public health and the role of government in it.
A general rule is to stagger longer sentences with shorter sentences. Just for the first paragraph:
1) cut out the whole first sentence.
2) restructure the paragraph, remove waste, be as specific as possible for your training level for goals/desires/attributes/talents. The focus of this essay is on the community and how you will contribute to it uniquely, not how you are unique.
3) a distinct perspective, not distinctive perspective
4) you shouldn't need a semi-colon in an essay this short
I hope to use my M.D./Ph.D. training to improve the quality of life in my community on individual and community levels through research, clinical practice, and involvement in healthcare policy. At this point in my education, I envision leading a university-based research group for most of my professional time in the same concentration as my medical training. My experiences with both the Canadian and American health care and research systems have stimulated a continuing interest in healthcare and research policy. I anticipate that my training and interactions with physicians, researchers, and patients will give me a unique perspective that will enable me to benefit the community at multiple levels.
I spent about 10 minutes with that, so it's not perfect, and I couldn't put any specific details about you because I don't know them. Some people will care about the essays more than others. I am very picky, and what you posted was not as good as it could be. We can always improve our writing, and it is an aspect of your app that could be improved.
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Thanks for taking the time to write that out.
Just to make it clear, the part that I blanked out in the prompt was the school's name, so it's not referring to the general community. I don't know if that changes your thoughts on the community aspect of this essay.
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Again, is this really necessary? This is my 28th post on this thread, which have included a lot of fairly personal info that I'd rather not be floating around on the internet, so no, I'm not trolling. Like I said, I have no advisor or anyone else who's significantly knowledgeable about the US admission process.
Other than this, thanks for the advice.
Try looking for "letter of interest" or "LOI" using the search function- there are a ton of good threads about it. Basically, a good LOI should
1. not sound too desperate
2. reiterate your interest in the school and why you feel you are a good match
Usually people send them when they are waitlisted, but sometimes people send them pre-interview invitation. The idea is that the LOI may catch an admission director's eye and maybe help you to get an interview or to get off the waitlist. You don't send them to schools which have rejected you, to schools which have invited you to interview, or post-interview, pre-waitlist, for the most part. They are generally considered essential if you are waitlisted.
I'm sure you could send them to some of the schools which simply haven't replied to your application. Maybe others could weigh in with their opinion, as I have not personally written any although I've heard of positive or neutral outcomes as a result of sending them. My impression is that if it's well-written, it shouldn't hurt you, and might help you.
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I don't want to nitpick this essay. To me, the grammar is probably not what shut you out from interviews. Here are the two things I noticed:
1. You want to do surgery, business (what about academic research?), and maintain a balanced lifestyle. What do you need a phd for? You have all this other stuff you plan to do! When will you have time to do research? You don't even touch upon it in this essay. It kind of seems like you're in this for the money or glory, just from this essay anyway. It doesn't help that most PDs aren't big on surgery and private business.
2. On a related note, you come across as very naive. How do you know that you're able to accomplish all of this when others can't? Nothing an applicant could say would convince me that you can do all this without getting some experience (in medical school/residency) first. I know some MD/PhDs that do business/medicine/research and they certainly sacrifice a lot to accomplish this (home life comes to mind, the healthy balance you speak of). You should probably pick a one or two things that relate to each other and talk about them in your essays. For example, I would discuss your interest in health economics--leave business out--and talk about your experience in Canada vs. the US health care (I lived in the UK, and I talked about the difference between the US/UK, providing examples from my experiences as a patient and researcher/student).
1. You want to do surgery, business (what about academic research?), and maintain a balanced lifestyle. What do you need a phd for? You have all this other stuff you plan to do! When will you have time to do research? You don't even touch upon it in this essay. It kind of seems like you're in this for the money or glory, just from this essay anyway. It doesn't help that most PDs aren't big on surgery and private business.
2. On a related note, you come across as very naive. How do you know that you're able to accomplish all of this when others can't? Nothing an applicant could say would convince me that you can do all this without getting some experience (in medical school/residency) first. I know some MD/PhDs that do business/medicine/research and they certainly sacrifice a lot to accomplish this (home life comes to mind, the healthy balance you speak of). You should probably pick a one or two things that relate to each other and talk about them in your essays. For example, I would discuss your interest in health economics--leave business out--and talk about your experience in Canada vs. the US health care (I lived in the UK, and I talked about the difference between the US/UK, providing examples from my experiences as a patient and researcher/student).
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