Teachers make more than Doctors hourly.

[urge]

http://www.bestmedicaldegrees.com/salary-of-doctors/

The Deceptive Salary of Doctors.

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[Man o War]

http://www.bestmedicaldegrees.com/salary-of-doctors/

The Deceptive Salary of Doctors.

I often fantasize about what it would look like if doctors formed one huge union like teachers have. Things would be drastically different.

 

[urge]

I often fantasize about what it would look like if doctors formed one huge union like teachers have. Things would be drastically different.

I would like to know how this exercise would look for a nurse. They barely work 40hrs week. Have amazing benefits. And only go to school for 4 years.

 

[Man o War]

I would like to know how this excercise would look for a nurse. They barely work 40hrs week. Have amazing benefits. And only go to school for 4 years.

Both places I trained had unionized nurses. They didn't do jack. The doctors were often cleaning up/changing over the rooms to facilitate turnovers.

 

[aneftp]

We docs will never win the public relations war on income vs teachers/nurses etc.

While the public values (and respects) physicians and many think we earn our compensation.

But there is still a mindset that doctors are the "captain" of the ship and the drivers for healthcare prices.

Unfortunately. Until the public gets educated that physician incomes only make up 8% (maybe it's even less) physician incomes make up less than 8% of total USA health spending.

The AMA and speciality organization do a horrible job "blaming the other guys". Where the heck does the other 92% of spending go?

Even if you adjust for docs who own their own labs, surgery centers, hospitals. Maybe this accounts for 15% of total healthcare spending.

So docs will never win the PR battle with nurses teachers/fire fighters etc in regards to the income battle.

 

[GravelRider]

Teachers are unionized and their union is powerful. Their contracts are very specific about how late they are expected to stay and how many days they can work a year. Teachers also tend to have great benefits.

As physician employment becomes the norm, I think a physician union will become necessary, but as mentioned there needs to be a better public relations by physicians. Most people think that doctors are swimming in pools of gold coins and hitting the golf course at the local country club every afternoon.

How would this exercise work for PAs/NPs? Or better yet, CRNAs?

 

[aneftp]

Teachers are unionized and their union is powerful. Their contracts are very specific about how late they are expected to stay and how many days they can work a year. Teachers also tend to have great benefits.

As physician employment becomes the norm, I think a physician union will become necessary, but as mentioned there needs to be a better public relations by physicians. Most people think that doctors are swimming in pools of gold coins and hitting the golf course at the local country club every afternoon.

How would this exercise work for PAs/NPs? Or better yet, CRNAs?

Issue is in the South teachers salaries are extremely low compare to the northeast.

My wife is very good friends with former teachers now stay at home moms in the South.

They got paid $60-70k up north easily with 5 plus years experience. I know many who make 80-90k. In DC they pay $100k plus. 9.5 months of work.

But in the South. They start them out in the mid 20s. Yes. Mid 20s. That's why the teachers don't last in the South.

My mother in law just retired 30 plus years teaching (she took 10 years off when she had kids) and the most she made was 52k and that was with a masters down South in Tennessee.

 

[GravelRider]

Issue is in the South teachers salaries are extremely low compare to the northeast.

My wife is very good friends with former teachers now stay at home moms in the South.

They got paid $60-70k up north easily with 5 plus years experience. I know many who make 80-90k. In DC they pay $100k plus. 9.5 months of work.

But in the South. They start them out in the mid 20s. Yes. Mid 20s. That's why the teachers don't last in the South.

My mother in law just retired 30 plus years teaching (she took 10 years off when she had kids) and the most she made was 52k and that was with a masters down South in Tennessee.

True. I know the northeast has very high teacher salaries. Finding teachers making over 120k is not uncommon, especially department chairs. Principals can make over 200k. I don't mind that the teachers are paid well and are treated like professionals. The public schools in the northeast tend to be very good for the most part and the teachers take their jobs seriously. The only downside is this is a big reason why property taxes are so high in the north.

 

[ZzzPlz]

Issue is in the South teachers salaries are extremely low compare to the northeast.

My wife is very good friends with former teachers now stay at home moms in the South.

They got paid $60-70k up north easily with 5 plus years experience. I know many who make 80-90k. In DC they pay $100k plus. 9.5 months of work.

But in the South. They start them out in the mid 20s. Yes. Mid 20s. That's why the teachers don't last in the South.

My mother in law just retired 30 plus years teaching (she took 10 years off when she had kids) and the most she made was 52k and that was with a masters down South in Tennessee.

So many questions I had about southerners were just answered in this post. Thank you.

 

[nimbus]

http://www.bestmedicaldegrees.com/salary-of-doctors/

The Deceptive Salary of Doctors.

The assumptions on the chart are not realistic. They say med school is equivalent to an 80hr work week. And they assume 80hr workweek throughout residency.

 

[pjl]

The whole thing is poorly written, pretty graphics, but bad logic and assumptions.

Makes me embarrassed to be a "poor doctor." You guys out there whining about low reimbursement and comparing yourselves to teachers should look around at the teachers you know a bit more closely.

Every single one of my doctor friends, including pediatricians lives a better lifestyle than my dual teacher friends. It may not be what it was, but it is not bad to be a physician.

Their only advantages are earlier start to saving in retirement accounts, and benefits after retirement.


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[urge]

The whole thing is poorly written, pretty graphics, but bad logic and assumptions.

Makes me embarrassed to be a "poor doctor." You guys out there whining about low reimbursement and comparing yourselves to teachers should look around at the teachers you know a bit more closely.

Every single one of my doctor friends, including pediatricians lives a better lifestyle than my dual teacher friends. It may not be what it was, but it is not bad to be a physician.

Their only advantages are earlier start to saving in retirement accounts, and benefits after retirement.


Sent from my iPad using SDN mobile app

You are missing the point. Your teacher friends would have an equal or better standard of living had they had 2 full time jobs after they finished their bachelor's. They just haven't put that much work in.

 

[pjl]

You are missing the point. Your teacher friends would have an equal or better standard of living had they had 2 full time jobs after they finished their bachelor's. They just haven't put that much work in.

60 hours is not 2 full time jobs. Maybe if you were to say they get time and a half. None of them are making 11k on a 24 hour shift like our esteemed colleague does on OB though. Plus I think not many docs put in 80 hours a week in med school, and all through residency.


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[urge]

The assumptions on the chart are not realistic. They say med school is equivalent to an 80hr work week. And they assume 80hr workweek throughout residency.

60 hours is not 2 full time jobs. Maybe if you were to say they get time and a half. None of them are making 11k on a 24 hour shift like our esteemed colleague does on OB though.


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Who makes 11k in 24 hrs?

You have to add the hours that are spent studying.

I know some people don't study regularly but then they spend 2 or 3 months non stop at the end of residency to catch up. It adds up.

 

[Psai]

Who makes 11k in 24 hrs?

You have to add the hours that are spent studying.

I know some people don't study regularly but then they spend 2 or 3 months non stop at the end of residency to catch up. It adds up.

sevo apparently

 

[GravelRider]

The whole thing is poorly written, pretty graphics, but bad logic and assumptions.

Makes me embarrassed to be a "poor doctor." You guys out there whining about low reimbursement and comparing yourselves to teachers should look around at the teachers you know a bit more closely.

Every single one of my doctor friends, including pediatricians lives a better lifestyle than my dual teacher friends. It may not be what it was, but it is not bad to be a physician.

Their only advantages are earlier start to saving in retirement accounts, and benefits after retirement.


Sent from my iPad using SDN mobile app

I think the general point is that physicians feel increasingly devalued in this corporate medicine world. You can't discount that no matter how accurate this infographic is. Physician burnout and dissatisfaction are at all time highs. Is comparing our compensation to a teacher's the right way to do it? Probably not. However, there is a crisis brewing within the medical profession that will have to be addressed. People are going to realize that the schooling and training is not worth running on the hamster wheel that is corporate medicine.

 

[nimbus]

Who makes 11k in 24 hrs?

You have to add the hours that are spent studying.

I know some people don't study regularly but then they spend 2 or 3 months non stop at the end of residency to catch up. It adds up.

I just read in the OR, never really studied on my own time.

And with the exception of a few months, most of med school was less than 40hrs/week. I think we tend to overestimate our own hrs. 80hrs a week is a ton. I've probably only hit that a handful of times in my life.

 

[chocomorsel]

How many of us actually graduated with 100K in undergraduate debt? I had 11k.
And yes, I only did 80 hours a week during some intern year months and as a resident, during the ICU months.
The chart and graphics makes a lot of assumptions.
And teachers, when you look at preparing lessons, grading, etc, they spend more than 40 hours a week working. These days however, they defer everything it seems like to online teaching to make their job easier.

I am with pjl on this one.

 

[67552931811]

How many of us actually graduated with 100K in undergraduate debt? I had 11k.
And yes, I only did 80 hours a week during some intern year months and as a resident, during the ICU months.
The chart and graphics makes a lot of assumptions.
And teachers, when you look at preparing lessons, grading, etc, they spend more than 40 hours a week working. These days however, they defer everything it seems like to online teaching to make their job easier.

I am with pjl on this one.

I graduated with 35k in debt from undergrad but will graduate med school with about 300k. The majority of med students nowadays are in my shoes. Graduating med school with over 300K in loans at a consolidated ~7% interest? No clue how I can keep that from ballooning in res/fellowship.

Yikes....

 

[teacher2md]

And teachers, when you look at preparing lessons, grading, etc, they spend more than 40 hours a week working. These days however, they defer everything it seems like to online teaching to make their job easier.

I was certainly working more than 40hrs a week as a public school teacher. A typical week for me was 40 hours in the classroom, +5 hours per week for clubs/sports, + 10 hours for lesson planning & grading, and +2 hours for faculty meetings, parent meetings & phone calls.

So more like 55-60 per week. This was typical for the (good) teachers at my public middle school. Of course, there was a handful of older, checked-out teachers who spent less/no time lesson planning, but their classrooms were out of control and the kids didn't learn anything.

Also take into account that teaching is a very stressful job. I loved it, but spending 7+hours a day managing classrooms of 30 13-year olds takes a lot out of you. For me, the transition to medical school wasn't too much different in terms of the hours that I had to put into studying or be on rotations, but the stress was often less than that of teaching.

 

[urge]

I was certainly working more than 40hrs a week as a public school teacher. A typical week for me was 40 hours in the classroom, +5 hours per week for clubs/sports, + 10 hours for lesson planning & grading, and +2 hours for faculty meetings, parent meetings & phone calls.

That sounds bad. My teachers had time off during the day to take care of stuff like grading and planning.

 

[urge]

I graduated with 35k in debt from undergrad but will graduate med school with about 300k. The majority of med students nowadays are in my shoes. Graduating med school with over 300K in loans at a consolidated ~7% interest? No clue how I can keep that from ballooning in res/fellowship.

Yikes....

You can thank Obama for raping the youth with rates that qualify as usury.

You can buy a house at 3.5% for 30 yrs easily and discharge it in bankruptcy if you want.


He tried to rape the youth with Obamacare too. See a common trend?