The 80K Pathologist?

[LADoc00]

As the government cuts to Pathology continue to roll right on through and I stare at this crazy negative slope CMS is preparing against us, I wonder how far off we are from the "80K Pathologist" or someone who even though they did 4 years in undergrad, 4 years in medical school and 4 years in residency is getting paid what the average RN makes with a 2-yr associate degree from Greendale Community College?

And if that is the case, what will happen to all the academic programs which colluded with CMS to make this happen?

AND Once this "grand trick" is played out on everyone, what is the end game? Robots? A.I. diagnosis? Molecular algorithms worked by small Apple based smart wrist watches (worn on cheap physician extender types of course)?

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[coroner]

Sounds like you've been watching too much Star Trek or got carried away by seeing those Med-Bay units in that movie 'Elysium'...

You're concern for the "80K pathologist" is equivalent to the top 1% distraught over assembly line workers being layed off by GM. The sky isn't falling, so keep calm and chive on...while making bank.

 

[Nave]

lawlz please...

As the government cuts to Pathology continue to roll right on through and I stare at this crazy negative slope CMS is preparing against us, I wonder how far off we are from the "80K Pathologist" or someone who even though they did 4 years in undergrad, 4 years in medical school and 4 years in residency is getting paid what the average RN makes with a 2-yr associate degree from Greendale Community College?

And if that is the case, what will happen to all the academic programs which colluded with CMS to make this happen?

AND Once this "grand trick" is played out on everyone, what is the end game? Robots? A.I. diagnosis? Molecular algorithms worked by small Apple based smart wrist watches (worn on cheap physician extender types of course)?

 

[dr4n6]

Here in NYC it is not hard to find an RN that makes 100K and they already have dogs that can reportedly detect lung cancers, so I think that in the future if we can make 80K that LA Doc is right in that we will be doing well.

 

[WEBB PINKERTON]

I doubt you will see many working for 80 grand but you will be seeing a high unemployment rate for pathologists.

 

[schrute]

I think the old presumption that physicians have stable, high-income employment is now a palpable disillusion, though that won't generate sympathy for us from the American public given we're still the highest paid med pros...many (most?) people outside the profession don't care if we make 400k or 200k...it's still probably more than they make, and they'd likely prefer the latter due to some sense of "equality"/ egalitarianism, Marxism, jealousy, or whatever.
They have no idea what goes into being a physician, let alone a pathologist, other than the fact it's "hard" and takes a long time...that would only change if care was being compromised to the point people took notice, but I feel that day will never come as there will always be a plethora of bright-eyed and bushy-tailed pre-meds, lured by naïve advisors and detached academic pied pipers, waiting to fill the admission rolls no matter what the projected outcome.

 

[Over9000]

80K won't be too far off from the future. It has a lot to do with the complete lack of professional respect that our field suffers from. We are on the same level as PhDs, and should be paid as much, according to those who write the checks. Our own medical association, the AMA, fights against us. The CAP is consistently ineffective because our membership fees are a minuscule addition to their budget (and for those who say that we don't have a big "war chest", the CAP is one of the richest lobbying associations in medicine - too bad the majority of those funds come from PT and thus CAP focuses on things that will maintain or increase PT profits).

Some people seem to be complacent about this, assuaged by the notion that the PC is still not bundled. That won't matter. Hospital systems will respond by demanding pathologists become employees. Then they will pay accordingly, and skim most of the PC.

Our field is for losers.

 

[turtle1966]

80K won't be too far off from the future. ..... Our field is for losers.

Shut down redundant residency programs!

 

[Autopsy101]

Hearing this makes me consider going back for forensics...In some offices, the fellows get paid $80,000.

 

[yaah]

Well, I disagree (somewhat). While the unemployment rate will no doubt be above zero, to call it "high" probably depends on your definition of high. What's high? 5%? 10%? I would call 1-2% high I think, if the 1-2% are actively looking for a job. I also would suggest that lower future salaries are a problem of all medicine except perhaps for cosmetic related stuff and people willing to be unethical. To intimate that it will be primarily a pathologist problem is woefully ignorant.

 

[Lysinee]

For the Drs who don't like pay cuts, a job is better than no job.

 

[schrute]

For the Drs who don't like pay cuts, a job is better than no job.

Not sure if it's even worth acknowledging this comment as the product of conscious thought, but I suppose ignorance is bliss.
"A job is better than no job" is about as asinine of a retort as telling a war vet that "Hey, having one leg is better than none...suck it up." ... it doesn't detract from the reality that the constant war in healthcare to maintain wages (we're not even talking increase, just maintenance) has multiple fronts...physicians are in constant struggle with insurance companies, administrators, governing bodies, the public, and other physicians, particularly those in other specialties.
When you leave the insulated walls of your academic environment perhaps that will become apparent.

 

[gbwillner]

an $80K pathologist is just not realistic. Even in today's "doom and gloom" environment, I can't get a PhD level person for anywhere near that. I am looking for CRAs and technologists for the lab whose salaries are pretty close to that level.

If I get an MD for 80K, it is because they trained oversees and do not have certifications in this country (actually, 2 have applied for the positions I list above and both fit into this category).

 

[malchik]

an $80K pathologist is just not realistic. Even in today's "doom and gloom" environment, I can't get a PhD level person for anywhere near that.

You're not looking very hard. There are thousands of postdocs working for 50k range in this country.

 

[Lysinee]

Not sure if it's even worth acknowledging this comment as the product of conscious thought, but I suppose ignorance is bliss.
"A job is better than no job" is about as asinine of a retort as telling a war vet that "Hey, having one leg is better than none...suck it up." ... it doesn't detract from the reality that the constant war in healthcare to maintain wages (we're not even talking increase, just maintenance) has multiple fronts...physicians are in constant struggle with insurance companies, administrators, governing bodies, the public, and other physicians, particularly those in other specialties.
When you leave the insulated walls of your academic environment perhaps that will become apparent.

Yeah, I get your POV. But, your war vet example is weak, and an apples to orange comparison. An amputee is a permanent condition and an unemployed physician isn't. That physician will eventually find a job if s/he is unemployed for a period of time.

 

[schrute]

Yeah, I get your POV. But, your war vet example is weak, and an apples to orange comparison. An amputee is a permanent condition and an unemployed physician isn't. That physician will eventually find a job if s/he is unemployed for a period of time.

Well, you apparently know next to nothing about the field of pathology...the race to the bottom and the "hypothetical" $80k path job IS a permanent situation (which is the point of the discussion, not whether or not an individual pathologist can find a job)--we're not suddenly going to get a bump in pay, only constantly fight for scraps, and dismissing this fact with a "you should feel lucky to be employed" pat-on-the-back is to miss the entire point of the conversation.

 

[Lysinee]

For the Drs who don't like pay cuts, a job is better than no job.

..... an unemployed physician isn't. That physician will eventually find a job if s/he is unemployed for a period of time.

Well, you apparently know next to nothing about the field of pathology...the race to the bottom and the "hypothetical" $80k path job IS a permanent situation (which is the point of the discussion, not whether or not an individual pathologist can find a job)--we're not suddenly going to get a bump in pay, only constantly fight for scraps, and dismissing this fact with a "you should feel lucky to be employed" pat-on-the-back is to miss the entire point of the conversation.

Read my last 2 responses again I made general statements. A physician doesn't always have to be a pathologist; there are many other fields too. And yes, general statements can be made in a path forum.

Since you don't like losing arguments to inferior med students ("insulated walls of your academic environment" and "you apparently know next to nothing"), I will just say that the attending has won the argument. As Apple recently said “Put on your big boy pants." LOL

 

[gbwillner]

You're not looking very hard. There are thousands of postdocs working for 50k range in this country.

...except I'm not hiring post docs, I'm hiring people for a clinical laboratory.

 

[656844]

Hearing this makes me consider going back for forensics...In some offices, the fellows get paid $80,000.

I agree with you. With all this disgusting negativity about the future of pathology in the USA (which I don't believe for a second), I'm planning on attending medical school in the near future, graduating, doing a 4-year AP/CP residency, and then a 1-year forensic pathology fellowship. I already have pathology assistant experience under my belt, so I might as well go for the gusto. And hey, let's say even IF the future of medicine looks bleak with high physician unemployment and low pay, that should increase the incidents of murder and violence in this country. Looks like the need for forensic pathologists will be increasing over the next 25 years! I'm ready!!