The diversity prompt (rant)

[Lifeblood_20]

I get it. So many amazing applicants with great scores and experiences, gotta separate the wheat from the chaff. Gotta be unique. Inclusive. But the problem is the premed process (the traditional route, to clarify) and diversity do not mesh at all. You gotta be privileged to jump through many hoops, to even get to the position of applying. Instead of a meager 250 word essay asking us to show off our “diversity” like trophies on a shelf, how about make the MCAT and the admission process more affordable as a start. That would help with bringing real “diversity” to the class. Instead we are being asked to summarize in a paragraph what makes us “diverse” like an afterthought. Pfffff.

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[deleted480308]

I get it. So many amazing applicants with great scores and experiences, gotta separate the wheat from the chaff. Gotta be unique. Inclusive. But the problem is the premed process (the traditional route, to clarify) and diversity do not mesh at all. You gotta be privileged to jump through many hoops, to even get to the position of applying. Instead of a meager 250 word essay asking us to show off our “diversity” like trophies on a shelf, how about make the MCAT and the admission process more affordable as a start. That would help with bringing real “diversity” to the class. Instead we are being asked to summarize in a paragraph what makes us “diverse” like an afterthought. Pfffff.

You don’t have to be “privileged” to apply to med school

 

[Rachapkis]

I get it. So many amazing applicants with great scores and experiences, gotta separate the wheat from the chaff. Gotta be unique. Inclusive. But the problem is the premed process (the traditional route, to clarify) and diversity do not mesh at all. You gotta be privileged to jump through many hoops, to even get to the position of applying. Instead of a meager 250 word essay asking us to show off our “diversity” like trophies on a shelf, how about make the MCAT and the admission process more affordable as a start. That would help with bringing real “diversity” to the class. Instead we are being asked to summarize in a paragraph what makes us “diverse” like an afterthought. Pfffff.

The odds are stacked against low income applicants. It helps to live in a wealthy neighborhood to attend better schools. It helps to have money to prep for the SAT and the MCAT. It helps to have money to pay for these tests. It helps to have money to avoid college debt. It helps to have money to afford medical school applications. It helps to have money to be able to travel to in person interviews. I agree that the diversity essay, while something, is a small bandaid on a massive wound.

 

[deleted804295]

I get it. So many amazing applicants with great scores and experiences, gotta separate the wheat from the chaff. Gotta be unique. Inclusive. But the problem is the premed process (the traditional route, to clarify) and diversity do not mesh at all. You gotta be privileged to jump through many hoops, to even get to the position of applying. Instead of a meager 250 word essay asking us to show off our “diversity” like trophies on a shelf, how about make the MCAT and the admission process more affordable as a start. That would help with bringing real “diversity” to the class. Instead we are being asked to summarize in a paragraph what makes us “diverse” like an afterthought. Pfffff.

Yes the system is racist, classist, elitist, nepotist.

My blood boiled when I learned that the gunner pre-meds who attempted to sabotage me several times in undergrad were students who had daddy as a faculty member at medical school.

But med schools don't care. They say they want to be diverse but as long as it doesn't significantly affect their numbers. The AAMC issued the new MCAT as a guideline where 500 was passing. They didn't expect medical schools to use it as a numbers game by stratifying students.

Medical schools will need a serious wakeup call to end their discriminatory practices in admissions. If they don't, there will be a class action law suit on their hands in a few years.

 

[deleted804295]

You don’t have to be “privileged” to apply to med school

You actually do. $170 for first medical school you apply to and $40 for each subsequent school. I have friends that applied to 30+ schools and had 95th percentile stats. Little Johnny who has no money can barely afford 15 schools + $150 average secondary fees.

FAP does not help every low income household.

 

[LunaOri]

You don't have to be privileged to apply, but it helps to be privileged if you want to fulfill all the prerequisites. It's difficult for a student to get top grades, shadow, volunteer, do research, etc etc etc if they also have to work to support themselves.

 

[deleted480308]

You actually do. $170 for first medical school you apply to and $40 for each subsequent school. I have friends that applied to 30+ schools and had 95th percentile stats. Little Johnny who has no money can barely afford 15 schools + $150 average secondary fees.

FAP does not help every low income household.

I applied to med school, I know the numbers. Putting together $2k to do applications isn’t privilege, it’s investment

 

[deleted804295]

I applied to med school, I know the numbers. Putting together $2k to do applications isn’t privilege, it’s investment

What???

 

[Cheezin]

What???

Well in the long term if every student is prepared for $200k debt with interest throughout 6+ years, I would believe 2k in the hole up front is an investment

 

[deleted804295]

Well in the long term if every student is prepared for $200k debt with interest throughout 6+ years, I would believe 2k in the hole up front is an investment

The $200k is covered via loans.

The $2k isn't. False comparison.

 

[Instatewaiter]

Medical schools will need a serious wakeup call to end their discriminatory practices in admissions. If they don't, there will be a class action law suit on their hands in a few years.

Please expound upon these discriminatory practices. AAMC publishes the racial data already. That data suggests that there already exists a large disparity in scores needed to gain admissions based upon racial groups.

 

[deleted480308]

What???

I stand by my point, for less than a cell phone bill during college a student can reasonably apply to med school.

 

[deleted804295]

Please expound upon these discriminatory practices. AAMC publishes the racial data already. That data suggests that there already exists a large disparity in scores needed to gain admissions based upon racial groups.

Please tell me there's some sort of joke I'm missing here.

Of course there needs to be a disparity in scores based upon racial groups. Because there are serious disparities in life that make it so that black and brown people have more adversity they need to overcome in order to even apply to schools.

I'm saying that these disparities in scores are not enough. The 5 point median score deviation in MCAT scores does not offset the systemic issues black and brown people face. From the difficulties they face in childhood, to high school, and undergrad, schools need to do more and follow AAMC's guideline of 500 being a passing score.

 

[deleted480308]

Yes the system is racist, classist, elitist, nepotist.

My blood boiled when I learned that the gunner pre-meds who attempted to sabotage me several times in undergrad were students who had daddy as a faculty member at medical school.

But med schools don't care. They say they want to be diverse but as long as it doesn't significantly affect their numbers. The AAMC issued the new MCAT as a guideline where 500 was passing. They didn't expect medical schools to use it as a numbers game by stratifying students.

Medical schools will need a serious wakeup call to end their discriminatory practices in admissions. If they don't, there will be a class action law suit on their hands in a few years.

Racial discrimination is already used pretty significantly in order to increase diversity. You seem to think schools can increase diversity without that in a gpa/mcat meritocracy.

 

[deleted480308]

Please tell me there's some sort of joke I'm missing here.

Of course there needs to be a disparity in scores based upon racial groups. Because there are serious disparities in life that make it so that black and brown people have more adversity they need to overcome in order to even apply to schools.

I'm saying that these disparities in scores are not enough. The 5 point median score deviation in MCAT scores does not offset the systemic issues black and brown people face. From the difficulties they face in childhood, to high school, and undergrad, schools need to do more and follow AAMC's guideline of 500 being a passing score.

I misunderstood before, you are literally arguing for MORE racial discrimination?

 

[Tennisgirl92]

I agree- it’s crazy expensive. Even for those with money, it’s expensive.

But what is the better solution? Schools use secondary fees to pay for the admissions people, arrange interviews,etc. AAMC I am less sympathetic to fees, however I am sure there are costs we are not aware of. A big company takes a lot of money to run. That money has to come from somewhere.

 

[deleted804295]

I misunderstood before, you are literally arguing for MORE racial discrimination?

Lol. Imagine calling equity racial discrimination.

Put simply, I believe if a black or brown student has above a 500 MCAT, and has met the necessary requirements to matriculate as well as some involvement in extracurriculars, then they should be admitted.

I'm tired of admissions committees saying they'll admit more black and brown students only to admit kids from immigrant groups who have better safety nets or kids who already have physician parents.

 

[deleted804295]

I agree- it’s crazy expensive. Even for those with money, it’s expensive.

But what is the better solution? Schools use secondary fees to pay for the admissions people, arrange interviews,etc. AAMC I am less sympathetic to fees, however I am sure there are costs we are not aware of. A big company takes a lot of money to run. That money has to come from somewhere.

Trust me, schools are not going to go into debt by not having secondary fees.

 

[deleted804295]

Racial discrimination is already used pretty significantly in order to increase diversity. You seem to think schools can increase diversity without that in a gpa/mcat meritocracy.

There *is no* meritorcracy. You're operating under the assumption that all things are equal for everyone that applies.

All things *are not* equal.

 

[Instatewaiter]

Of course there needs to be a disparity in scores based upon racial groups. Because there are serious disparities in life that make it so that black and brown people have more adversity they need to overcome in order to even apply to schools.

I'm saying that these disparities in scores are not enough. The 5 point median score deviation in MCAT scores does not offset the systemic issues black and brown people face. From the difficulties they face in childhood, to high school, and undergrad, schools need to do more and follow AAMC's guideline of 500 being a passing score.

Got to be a troll... But if not:

Oh I get it as long as Timmy's skin is brown (and the right color brown-apparently not talking about indians) he doesn't have to have a strong academic record to get into medical school. Cool, cool, cool.

What do you think are the unintended down stream effects? Do you think this will make the public more or less trustful of having a black doctor?

Let me ask you something, when does somebody have to stand on their own academic record? Obviously you don't think it's after college. Is it after medical school, when applying to residency, when becoming an attending? Or does someone get an academic free pass bc of brown skin forever?

Ahhh... The soft bigotry of low expectations.

 

[deleted804295]

Got to be a troll... But if not:

Oh I get it as long as Timmy's skin is brown (and the right color brown-apparently not talking about indians) he doesn't have to have a strong academic record to get into medical school. Cool, cool, cool.

What do you think are the unintended down stream effects? Do you think this will make the public more or less trustful of having a black doctor?

Let me ask you something, when does somebody have to stand on their own academic record? Obviously you don't think it's after college. Is it after medical school, when applying to residency, when becoming an attending? Or does someone get an academic free pass bc of brown skin forever?

Ahhh... The soft bigotry of low expectations.

Your implication that having equitable standards is lowering expectations is racist. And you need to educate yourself on why that is.

The facts are: "AAMC recommends that med school admission committees consider applicants near the center of the range [500], rather than placing the most emphasis on the higher end of the scale." (source: The Princeton Review)

These expectations come directly from the AAMC. Having schools accept students that score 500 or more is not low expectations; it is the expectations of the AAMC.

You're going to need to educate yourself on equity and also the AAMC's actual expectations because you're clueless on both.

 

[deleted480308]

Lol. Imagine calling equity racial discrimination.

Put simply, I believe if a black or brown student has above a 500 MCAT, and has met the necessary requirements to matriculate as well as some involvement in extracurriculars, then they should be admitted.

I'm tired of admissions committees saying they'll admit more black and brown students only to admit kids from immigrant groups who have better safety nets or kids who already have physician parents.

So you fully back what is essentially a quota system with very different standards by race?

 

[deleted804295]

Anyways, this conversation will be meaningless in a decade because the AAMC will make the MCAT P/F because classist medical school admissions decided to not listen to the AAMCs recommendations.

The entire point of restructuring this exam was to make it less biased by incorporating the P/S section and having a score that stated students' readiness for medical school.

This was in hopes of making admissions more holistic and less stats based while still having a benchmark of which students were ready for medical school or not.

The process is not holistic as the AAMC hoped for. It is still racist, classist, and nepotist.

 

[Goro]

I stand by my point, for less than a cell phone bill during college a student can reasonably apply to med school.

I agree with my young colleague.

And yes, the system favors children of doctors. Yes, it's classist, etc.

But I submit that if you work a few years after college and save up for those fees/costs, you will come in as a much stronger candidate, with wisdom, maturity, knowing how to deal with people, and a good work ethic,...something that a lot of traditional pre-meds lack. frankly, I wish a year of employment was a requirement for med school.

This entire process is about delayed gratification.

 

[gyngyn]

This seems like a good place to stop.