"The GRE is no longer required for admission." NPs are making a farce out of us.

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womp

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Remember the MCAT and the AMCAS?

There is now a new breed of direct entry 3-year Nurse Practitioner (NP) programs that accept students who haven't had a day of nursing experience. For example this school in Boston:
http://www.simmons.edu/shs/academics/nursing/degrees/direct_entry.shtml

Here are the prereqs:
  • "The GRE is no longer required for admission."
  • 1 semester of gen chem
  • 1 semester of organic chem
  • 1 semester of psychology
  • 1 semester of physiology
  • 1 semester of statistics

These direct entry NP schools then pop out thousands of graduates who, with no residency, get paid more than double that of first year residents who have both more formal education and clinical training (not to mention the utterly different leagues of selectivity throughout the process). Residents go on to slave away 80 hrs a week for many more years to get the training necessary to be a competent doctor.

More and more states are allowing NPs to practice autonomously. In the meantime, the NPs continue to encroach upon the practice scope of primary care physicians, taking all the easy and lucrative cases, while leaving the zebras to the MDs. The Obama health care bill also encourages the expansion of midlevel providers, grouping midlevels together with primary care physicians as "primary care providers."

The quality of the current generation of NPs might be pretty satisfactory because many of these NPs had decades of RN experience, but can you all imagine the new crop of NPs (DNPs) 5-10 years from now? :scared: :scared: :scared:

Future physicians should avoid giving business to those midlevels who are practicing independently without physician supervision. For the patient's sake and for the future of our profession. We're losing the political battle against nursing lobbies. If we don't do something about this, NPs will be making a farce out of us with our process of premed, the 30+ MCAT, medical school, USMLE Steps, research, residency, fellowship, board certification.

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Also, its not as if the GRE is some insurmountable obstacle. A lot of my friends didn't study for it and got perfect scores on the math section and 95 percentile on the overall test.
You'd be surprised when we're talking about the people who apply to nursing programs.

Here's the average matriculated GRE score of CRNA (certified nurse anesthetist) students for one school:

Verbal: 485 (54th percentile)
Quantitative: 608 (48th percentile)

http://www.samuelmerritt.edu/admission/programs

CRNAs, who make $200k, want to be called "doctors" and to have an identical scope of practice as anesthesiologists.
 
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Also, its not as if the GRE is some insurmountable obstacle. A lot of my friends didn't study for it and got perfect scores on the math section and 95 percentile on the overall test.

I think the OP was just trying to emphasize how much of a joke it is to get into some of those NP programs and be able to prescribe drugs and act like a PCP. When compared to what a PCP had to go through to get to where he/she is, it is a joke.
 
Ridiculous... I hate to say it, but I'm confident we really are screwed and there is nothing that will be done about it. All over the world physicians get taken advantage of, and from the perspective of our legislators, it's about time physicians get royally raped in the good 'ol US of A, too.

Looks like I'm going to have to get a political career started if I want a nice standard of living and access to competent physicians, myself...
 
Ridiculous... I hate to say it, but I'm confident we really are screwed and there is nothing that will be done about it. All over the world physicians get taken advantage of, and from the perspective of our legislators, it's about time physicians get royally raped in the good 'ol US of A, too.

Looks like I'm going to have to get a political career started if I want a nice standard of living and access to competent physicians, myself...

Well, just as a counterpoint, people always think that the sky is falling -- it often isn't. Not that I think it's gonna be smooth sailing, but I don't think we ought to be putting ourselves on the endangered species list just yet.
 
Well, just as a counterpoint, people always think that the sky is falling -- it often isn't. Not that I think it's gonna be smooth sailing, but I don't think we ought to be putting ourselves on the endangered species list just yet.

Ha, ha... I guess you can make that point, but:

(a) More and more states are giving increasing autonomy to nurses
(b) The federal government has massively increased their grip on the health industry
(c) Being that the federal government essentially followed in MA's footsteps with their socialized healthcare plan, it's not unreasonable to think that they will soon follow suit and mandate acceptance of medicare, etc.

Losing ground to nurses, losing freedom to the government, and having the payor become the insurer while also being essentially immune from legal challenges is pretty bad.

It doesn't change my mind about what I'm doing, or what I want to do, but it sure does piss me off.
 
Maybe I'm just uninformed, but that sounds high. Got a link for this?

I can confirm that semi-rural areas will pay over 190k, 40-50 hrs/wk.
 
I can confirm that semi-rural areas will pay over 190k, 40-50 hrs/wk.

I can second that confirmation.

Step 1+Max Bench>630
Matched into Ortho
:laugh: How could one not possibly follow the other??? That's classic, right there.... you really should consider making it into a T-shirt with a fill in the blank for the number and sell it to all 4th yr ortho wannabe's -- it would likely sell like no other. :thumbup:
 
I can second that confirmation.


:laugh: How could one not possibly follow the other??? That's classic, right there.... you really should consider making it into a T-shirt with a fill in the blank for the number and sell it to all 4th yr ortho wannabe's -- it would likely sell like no other. :thumbup:

well I'll be doing my part! We need to nip this in the bud! Since Primary care docs bent over and took the "obama promise" in an attempt to screw us for the wish that they'd be getting more money, they should bear the brunt of the new system. They arent going to earn more money, they'll just be gouped as primay care folks with DNPs and PAs. But still, every time I get a consult from "dr" so-and-so" Im going to ask them "are you a DNP or a NP?" even if I know full well they're a MD. If they ask I'll just say "sorry....all primary care to me!".

Those ****ing idiots sold us out thinking they were going to cash in. what can you expect from the bottom of the class?
 
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I just had a brain flash from the other thread. :idea:

We are all going down the wrong track!....

The NPs don't need school, at least real school.

They don't need countless hours of clinical experience.

They do a little bit, just for show.

The real deal is in the Matrix-style hookup directly into the brain. This lets NPs get the equivalent--no wait, better!--training than physicians in half the time and a fraction of the hours. Man, we future MDs have got to get our hands on these devices. ...Neo??
 
well I'll be doing my part! We need to nip this in the bud! Since Primary care docs bent over and took the "obama promise" in an attempt to screw us for the wish that they'd be getting more money, they should bear the brunt of the new system. They arent going to earn more money, they'll just be gouped as primay care folks with DNPs and PAs. But still, every time I get a consult from "dr" so-and-so" Im going to ask them "are you a DNP or a NP?" even if I know full well they're a MD. If they ask I'll just say "sorry....all primary care to me!".

Those ****ing idiots sold us out thinking they were going to cash in. what can you expect from the bottom of the class?

hmmm...
good luck with that plan of action!:thumbup: (sarcasm)
 
My mother's friend is a former NP. Yesterday I was talking to her about how NPs are starting to practice without physician supervision. Quoting her: "Except for surgery, there is nothing that physicians can do that NPs can't." :bang:

Confidence in yourself is a good thing, excessive confidence borderlining on ignorance is not.

She should put her money where her mouth is and never visit another doctor again.
 
Moh's and Chino-

Thanks for the compliments! I was that 'that guy' flipping through flash cards between sets.
 
My mother's friend is a former NP. Yesterday I was talking to her about how NPs are starting to practice without physician supervision. Quoting her: "Except for surgery, there is nothing that physicians can do that NPs can't." :bang:

Confidence in yourself is a good thing, excessive confidence borderlining on ignorance is not.

Not knowing that you dont know is the thing that will put NP's, RN and DNP's in trouble.
 
...though by 2015, a doctorate, or a DNP, in nursing practice will be the standard for all graduating nurse practitioners...

Does this mean that they will have to go through, in average, 7 years of doctoral education? Or is this going to be a watered-down degree?
 
Interesting article-

"doctors who have gone through the full medical school curriculum are over-qualified for a job that, today, is more about coordinating care than medical science. "

::Rips out hair, tears off clothing, places chicken on head, runs naked through street::
 
Does this mean that they will have to go through, in average, 7 years of doctoral education? Or is this going to be a watered-down degree?

The DNP is only one extra year of NON-CLINICAL education on top of the 2 year NP MS degree. It's basically an MPH.

"doctors who have gone through the full medical school curriculum are over-qualified for a job that, today, is more about coordinating care than medical science. "

...Oh, my. Again, I think these people should give up seeing doctors for the rest of their life. If they believe NPs can do it all, they can put their money where their mouth is and just see the NP for everything. Maybe when the NP puts them in the hospital due to gross incompetence, they can spend their newfound free time reading up on all the new medical research and then decide whether medicine has become more or less complicated.
 
Apparently that's already happening. From the same article:



But alas, one still has the audacity to say:


:lame: What a horrible thing to put a kid through. I don't think we should be choosing providers who are clearly inferior for our KIDS - not that this lady chose it, but many do. It's one thing if you're an adult who wants to make a bad choice, but don't people want the absolute BEST for their kids? By any measure NPs have less training, less education. Even the people who clamor the loudest for NP parity and independence know deep down that they don't have equivalent education. Saying otherwise is putting politics and self-interest above the welfare and needs of children, which is borderline sociopathic.
 
Having said that, I am glad that a significant portion of the comments are along the lines of " I would never take a family member to anything but a full-fledged physician". Let's hope that this represents the majority of people seeking healthcare. :thumbup:

Saying otherwise is putting politics and self-interest above the welfare and needs of children, which is borderline sociopathic.

Fully agree. It's just absurd to suggest that physicians are "over-qualified" for primary care roles, and I believe most people have a political or economic agenda behind this NP > physician ordeal.
 
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If anyone feels like reading some more blatant BS from a huffy NP ...

http://takingnote.tcf.org/2010/04/t...urse-practitioners-provide-primary-care-.html

I encourage everyone to comment because it's absolutely absurd.
Nice comments by the physicians and med students! Looks like someone posted a part of my NP/DNP vs. MD/DO curricula comparison. :thumbup: I might as well post the entire thing and join in on the discussion.

That article was absolutely ridiculous. As much as I hate to say something like this, after going through so many different NP/DNP curricula, I really feel like my undergrad biology degree provided far superior basic science training than what NPs/DNPs get. Maybe I should lobby for a couple hundred clinical hours and claim equivalency to physicians? :laugh:
 
Does this mean that they will have to go through, in average, 7 years of doctoral education? Or is this going to be a watered-down degree?
It's a very watered down degree. Nurses felt left behind that they didn't have a "clinical" doctorate like other healthcare professions (ie. PharmD, DPT, etc). So, they created watered down, not-so-clinically-oriented degree and are claiming equivalency to physicians.

A group of DNPs at Columbia (these are supposed to be the cream of the crop of the NPs/DNPs) took a very watered down version of Step 3 (supposedly the easiest Step exam that interns don't even study for and have more than a 95% pass rate, IIRC) and had a 50% fail rate. That alone is very telling.

Edit: I apologize for those who have seen this following post of mine many times, but my hope is that people unaware get a look at this and start realizing what the difference between NP/DNP and MD/DO curricula is:

"Here's a sample curriculum from a BSN-DNP program (at Duke): http://nursing.duke.edu/wysiwyg/down...t_MAT_Plan.pdf

You need 73 credits to go from a college degree to a doctorate. That turns out to be less than 3 years.

Now, let's look at the fluff courses that aren't really clinically useful:
Research Methods (3 credits), Health Services Program Planning and Outcomes Analysis (3 credits), Applied Statistics (2 credits), Research Utilization in Advanced Nursing Practice (3 credits), Data Driven Health Care Improvement (4 credits), Evidence Based Practice and Applied Statistics I & II (7 credits, since you told me medicine is not evidence based), Effective Leadership (2 credits), Transforming the Nation's Health (3 credits), DNP Capstone (6 credits), Health Systems Transformation (3 credits), Financial Management & Budget Planning (3 credits).

Here are the clinically useful courses: Population-Based Approach to Healthcare (3 credits), Clinical Pharmacology and Interventions for Advanced Practice Nursing (3 credits), Managing Common Acute and Chronic Health Problems I (3 credits), Selected Topics in Advanced Pathophysiology (3 credits), Diagnostic Reasoning & Physical Assessment in Advanced Nursing Practice (4 credits), Common Acute and Chronic Health Problems II (3 credits), Sexual and Reproductive Health (2 credits), Nurse Practitioner Residency: Adult Primary Care (3 credits), Electives (12 credits).

So, out of the 73 credits needed to go from BSN to DNP, 37 credits are not clinically useful. In addition, the number of required clinical hours is 612 hours (unless I miscounted something)!! Wow! And the NP program is designed the same way, with a bunch of fluff courses (11 credits out of 43 required are fluff) and requires 612 hours as well: http://nursing.duke.edu/wysiwyg/down...rriculum_2.pdf

Here are the curricula to several other programs:

It's kinda scary how inadequate that training is in order to practice medicine independently. You can't really count prior nursing experience as time practicing medicine because you weren't practicing medicine during that time nor were you thinking in a medical manner (ie. the way a physician would). Nursing clinical hours might help you transition into medicine but they are NOT a replacement for medical clinical hours.

Now, just for comparison, let's look at a med school curriculum. I'll point out all the fluff courses here too. Here's an example from Baylor School of Medicine for M1/M2 (http://www.bcm.edu/osa/handbook/?PMID=5608) and for M3/M4 (http://www.bcm.edu/osa/handbook/?PMID=7463):

Fluff courses at Baylor School of Medicine during M1/M2 years ONLY: Patient, Physician, and Society-1 (4.5 credits), Patient, Physician, and Society-2 (6 credits), Bioethics (2.5 credits), Integrated Problem Solving 1 & 2 (10 credits).

Useful courses at Baylor School of Medicine during M1/M2 years ONLY: Foundations Basic to Science of Medicine: Core Concepts (14.5 credits), Cardiovascular-Renal-Resp (11.5 credits), GI-Met-Nut-Endo-Reproduction (14 credits), General Pathology & General Pharmacology (6.5 credits), Head & Neck Anatomy (4.5 credits), Immunology (5 credits), Behavioral Sciences (6.5 credits), Infectious Disease (13 credits), Nervous System (14 credits), Cardiology (4.5 credits), Respiratory (3.5 credits), Renal (4 credits), Hematology/Oncology (5 credits), Hard & Soft Tissues (3 credits), Gastroenterology (4 credits), Endocrinology (3.5 credits), GU/Gyn (3 credits), Genetics (3 credits), Age Related Topics (2.5 credits).

For only the M1/M2 years at Baylor, there's 162.5 total credits. Out of these 162.5 credits, 23 credits are fluff.

Core Clerkships during M3 (useful clinical training): Medicine (24 credits, 12 weeks), Surgery (16 credits, 8 weeks), Group A selective (8 credits, 4 weeks), Psychiatry (16 credits, 8 weeks), Neurology (8 credits, 4 weeks), Pediatrics (16 credits, 8 weeks), Ob/Gyn (16 credits, 8 weeks), Family & Community Medicine (8 credits, 4 weeks), Clinical Half-Day (includes Clincal Application of Radiology, Clinical Application of Pathology, Clinical Application of Nutrition, Clinical Evidence Based Medicine, Longitudinal Ambulatory Care Experience, and Apex -- 23 credits).

So, without even taking into consideration M4 electives and required subinternships (which are usually in Medicine and Surgery), medical students already have a far superior medical training than NPs or DNPs. Other examples of med school curricula:

You can get a BSN to DNP in about 3 years according to many programs I've looked at. Medicine involves 4 years of medical school and a minimum of 3 years of residency before allowing independent practice. Here's the math:

BSN to DNP: 2.5 - 3 years of training; longer if courses taken part-time; 600-1000 clinical hours!
BS/BA to MD/DO: 4 years med school + 3-5 years residency: 7-11 years of training; not possible part-time; clinical hours >
17000"

I also want to point out that there are really no valid studies suggesting that NP/DNP outcomes are equivalent to those of physicians. NPs/DNPs always mention that studies show that patients are more "satisfied" with the care/attention they receive from NPs/DNPs than from physicians. However, patient satisfaction =/= quality medical care. I talk to patients all the time when I'm volunteering in the ED, etc, and several have told me they feel much better after talking to someone. That does not mean I should be allowed to practice independently.

Hope this helps.
 
well I'll be doing my part! We need to nip this in the bud! Since Primary care docs bent over and took the "obama promise" in an attempt to screw us for the wish that they'd be getting more money, they should bear the brunt of the new system. They arent going to earn more money, they'll just be gouped as primay care folks with DNPs and PAs. But still, every time I get a consult from "dr" so-and-so" Im going to ask them "are you a DNP or a NP?" even if I know full well they're a MD. If they ask I'll just say "sorry....all primary care to me!".

Those ****ing idiots sold us out thinking they were going to cash in. what can you expect from the bottom of the class?

You are a huuuuge douche.
 
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IvMB7z9UYJ8

Listen to those ladies. It's clear that this movement has been carefully planned out...There is no doubt what the agenda of these programs is...

Also, if there is a huge shortage of nurses and mid-tier provider, why decrease the population of nurses by training them to be primary care provider? Makes no God damned sense.
 
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wow. i am speechless. people want to take shortcuts, make a bunch of money, and as a result they are endangering the lives of their patients.

shame on them.
 
waaa waaa waaa cry me a river. you people shouldnt keep comparing yourselves to others. why dont you try focusing on what you set out to do and ignore the rest. stop worrying about what other people are doing and how much $$ they will make in comparison to you. arent you going into this field to provide quality health care? heres an idea... why dont you stop wasting your time complaining like little sissies on this blog and crack your textbooks.
:barf:
 
waaa waaa waaa cry me a river. you people shouldnt keep comparing yourselves to others. why dont you try focusing on what you set out to do and ignore the rest. stop worrying about what other people are doing and how much $$ they will make in comparison to you. arent you going into this field to provide quality health care? heres an idea... why dont you stop wasting your time complaining like little sissies on this blog and crack your textbooks.
:barf:

I'm never one to follow a meme, but I feel like "clueless troll is clueless" is appropriate.
 
waaa waaa waaa cry me a river. you people shouldnt keep comparing yourselves to others. why dont you try focusing on what you set out to do and ignore the rest. stop worrying about what other people are doing and how much $$ they will make in comparison to you. arent you going into this field to provide quality health care? heres an idea... why dont you stop wasting your time complaining like little sissies on this blog and crack your textbooks.
:barf:
We are. It's too bad NPs/DNPs don't seem to care about quality health care. I guess the temptation of being a "doctor" :)laugh:) is too much for them, so they try to shortcut their way into medicine.
 
We are. It's too bad NPs/DNPs don't seem to care about quality health care. I guess the temptation of being a "doctor" :)laugh:) is too much for them, so they try to shortcut their way into medicine.

dont even waste your time answering to this troll because cutebabe9091 is a freaking TROLL!!!
 
well I'll be doing my part! We need to nip this in the bud! Since Primary care docs bent over and took the "obama promise" in an attempt to screw us for the wish that they'd be getting more money, they should bear the brunt of the new system. They arent going to earn more money, they'll just be gouped as primay care folks with DNPs and PAs. But still, every time I get a consult from "dr" so-and-so" Im going to ask them "are you a DNP or a NP?" even if I know full well they're a MD. If they ask I'll just say "sorry....all primary care to me!".

Those ****ing idiots sold us out thinking they were going to cash in. what can you expect from the bottom of the class?

Tell you what jackalatern. The Rvu committee and the AMA created the nurse practitioner and there are very few specialties that are difficult to match in. I couldn't take dealing with one organ system or a limited number of procedures no matter what the pay. Technician is the word not doctor. That's what superspecialization comes down to.
 
Tell you what jackalatern. The Rvu committee and the AMA created the nurse practitioner and there are very few specialties that are difficult to match in. I couldn't take dealing with one organ system or a limited number of procedures no matter what the pay. Technician is the word not doctor. That's what superspecialization comes down to.
Ouch. You're being as harsh on specialists as dynx was on PCPs aren't you?

Seriously though, IMO, this whole primary care vs. specialist thing needs to stop. Physicians need to stop bickering with each other and unite together to fight off the ANA and the nursing midlevels.
 
First off no one refers to a hole specialists unless there is absolutely no other option. Why would they? I refer my patients to specialists who I think they will benefit from not those with personality disorders that trump whatever abilities they have or don't have and attempt to hide through "puffing up like a porcupine"
 
First off no one refers to a hole specialists unless there is absolutely no other option. Why would they? I refer my patients to specialists who I think they will benefit from not those with personality disorders that trump whatever abilities they have or don't have and attempt to hide through "puffing up like a porcupine"

Is that like proctology?
 
...Seriously though, IMO, this whole primary care vs. specialist thing needs to stop. Physicians need to stop bickering with each other and unite together to fight off ...
Agree. We need to actually unite and fight off a large number of groups, including politicians and others.
 
i'm just being real here. I also realize my position as a pre-med, but i've had a taste of the environment. then again, I'm in the same position as a nurse crying for attention but at least i realize it.

nurses aren't doctors. nurse practitioners aren't either. we can't compare undergrad since there are those pre-meds who are not science majors. but you know what makes a HUGE difference? Let's just look at one obstacle. The first big wall is the MCAT. For nursing, it's the NET. Have you seen the freakin test? It is a JOKE.

Sample two questions:
3. Organs repair themselves through a process of?
A. Meiosis
B. Mitosis
C. Cellular differentiation
D. Transformation

4. Which of the following is considered a model for enzyme action?
A. Lock and Key model
B. Enzyme interaction model
C. Transformation model
D. Transcription model

You kidding me? There are discretes on the MCAT but it's after brutal passage questions. It's a few freebies that are still remotely difficult since most details are remissed and into thin air after a few months of studying.

And seriously, why do nurses want the same respect as doctors? If you want the same respect, then apply to medical school and become a DOCTOR. The same respect isn't even handed out among doctors so what would make nurses any different? The shows like Scrubs or Grey's Anatomy... yeah, that doesn't fly.

The responses on that thread were not malignant or arrogant. Seriously, the guy's saying the truth. what's more annoying than bones in my fish is nurses who cry for respect and those that act like they're a big bad alpha BOSS. Sorry to put them down, but it's for real.

I don't get why doctors fight amongst each other. The Step I is an obstacle that gets in the way of CHOICE of lifestyle. Some people might be just plain dumb or some didn't study. In the end, you all specialize in one body area. Even that alone is remotely difficult to keep updating to current technology and news. Let alone keeping up with the whole body. That's why there's specialization for more focused attention. in the end, you need to lobby against these nurse practitioners and the politicians not giving two cents about doctors.

You know the occupation for the most pressure and most anxiety while expecting huge performances? A doctor. Dealing with lives here. Same can be said for some investment banker that needs to make a sales pitch for a multi-billionaire company. you know what though? You didn't just kill someone if you can't get it. You might have just killed yourself, maybe literally but mainly metaphorically. In the lower contrast, a nurse... you grab the stuff for the man in charge. To make an analogy to a research lab: Doctor = PI. Post-Doc = Residents. Med Students = PhD (yeah, med students are lower than nurses but for this example, it'll be higher than a nurse) Nurse = Lab Technician. Scribes/Secretaries = Undergrad/Work-Study students. Yeah, that lab technician honestly has no future other than to be the best lab technician there is. some things...you go into things knowing what you're getting into.

long essay, but that's all my thoughts
 
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i'm just being real here. I also realize my position as a pre-med, but i've had a taste of the environment. then again, I'm in the same position as a nurse crying for attention but at least i realize it.

nurses aren't doctors. nurse practitioners aren't either. we can't compare undergrad since there are those pre-meds who are not science majors. but you know what makes a HUGE difference? Let's just look at one obstacle. The first big wall is the MCAT. For nursing, it's the NET. Have you seen the freakin test? It is a JOKE.

Sample two questions:
3. Organs repair themselves through a process of?
A. Meiosis
B. Mitosis
C. Cellular differentiation
D. Transformation

4. Which of the following is considered a model for enzyme action?
A. Lock and Key model
B. Enzyme interaction model
C. Transformation model
D. Transcription model

You kidding me? There are discretes on the MCAT but it's after brutal passage questions. It's a few freebies that are still remotely difficult since most details are remissed and into thin air after a few months of studying.

And seriously, why do nurses want the same respect as doctors? If you want the same respect, then apply to medical school and become a DOCTOR. The same respect isn't even handed out among doctors so what would make nurses any different? The shows like Scrubs or Grey's Anatomy... yeah, that doesn't fly.

The responses on that thread were not malignant or arrogant. Seriously, the guy's saying the truth. what's more annoying than bones in my fish is nurses who cry for respect and those that act like they're a big bad alpha BOSS. Sorry to put them down, but it's for real.

I don't get why doctors fight amongst each other. The Step I is an obstacle that gets in the way of CHOICE of lifestyle. Some people might be just plain dumb or some didn't study. In the end, you all specialize in one body area. Even that alone is remotely difficult to keep updating to current technology and news. Let alone keeping up with the whole body. That's why there's specialization for more focused attention. in the end, you need to lobby against these nurse practitioners and the politicians not giving two cents about doctors.

You know the occupation for the most pressure and most anxiety while expecting huge performances? A doctor. Dealing with lives here. Same can be said for some investment banker that needs to make a sales pitch for a multi-billionaire company. you know what though? You didn't just kill someone if you can't get it. You might have just killed yourself, maybe literally but mainly metaphorically. In the lower contrast, a nurse... you grab the stuff for the man in charge. To make an analogy to a research lab: Doctor = PI. Post-Doc = Residents. Med Students = PhD (yeah, med students are lower than nurses but for this example, it'll be higher than a nurse) Nurse = Lab Technician. Scribes/Secretaries = Undergrad/Work-Study students. Yeah, that lab technician honestly has no future other than to be the best lab technician there is. some things...you go into things knowing what you're getting into.

long essay, but that's all my thoughts

Great post.

The bolded above is spot on and completely makes sense for anyone that has worked for awhile in a lab setting.
 
I'm currently in med school. Study and get the better job. Many of you people on this post need to grow up.
 
What is a decade of growth in man years, 3.5?
 
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