The Inaugural ATSU COM-Mesa Class of 2011

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I just ordered my books through half.com and bought mostly "Good" and "Like New" books. If you click on the textbook section it lets you enter all the ISBN numbers at once for the books you want from the list. It generated a list of the best prices for each. A little faster than typing in names individually. I bought 13 books and the Anatomy DVDs. The total was $704 plus $47 in shipping. I ordered almost all of the required ones (already had Netters and a medical physiology book and didn't buy the ones on MDconsult nor the Outline of Osteopathic Manipulative or the Counterstrain book). Too bad there wasn't a class before us to tell us which books we really need. Maybe we can sell the books next summer to the class of 2012.
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Somebody post the booklist, or, send it to me via this link. I'll be able to give you an idea of which ones you want and don't want. They "require" books because the military and service corps scholarship recipients get the books for free, but only "required" books. Keep that in mind. My study partner went through 2 years of school only buying the netter and the First Aid board review book! I bought a lot more, but, it is doable without.

I will give you my take on what books you need/don't need. For the first year, the rule of thumb is "less is better". If the Mesa campus is anything like the Kirksville campus, you should get excellent handouts, which should negate the need for many textbooks.

It is a little different, since your curriculum is so different, but, I can tell you book by book which ones are good to get.

From what people have said...you MUST get a netter. The foundations of osteopathy is NOT needed at all. The counterstrain manual, while important, is not needed because of study guides that have been made by KCOM students.

I guess I just need to see what they want you guys to use to give my opinion.

Remember, even though we are across the country, we are here to help you! You can email the entire class of 2010 and ask for help by going to their "google group" (I'll set it up for you guys soon--my wife just had a baby today). Go here to become a member of their group.

EMT2DO--about the hats, you had better get used to it. Every exam, boards and all, do not allow hats. I usually am up at around 3 AM on test mornings, so, I really like the hat, but, I do take it off upon entering the exam.
 
The orientation schedule lists "Professional Dress" for the WCC. Do you guys think that mean suits only?
 
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I was wondering the same thing. Especially for guests - do you think they must wear full suit and tie and everything as well? Or would a dress shirt, tie and pants suffice for the male guests?

I purchased the required books today - got them all for $758 (minus the two that seem as if the school will be involved in the purchase?) including shipping so I was pretty pleased with that - used Amazon and Half.com and got some decent used and new copies. I know a lot of schools, people do not use all of the books but I figure being a new school with no upperclassmen to ask about it, I might as well be better off safe than sorry. As for the recommended, I figure I will wait and see... In college I tended to use required but not recommended books.
 
The term "Professional dress" not only means a suit (for men and women), but in most circumstances refers to the conservative variety. With "Business dress" (not business casual, like our regular dress code), sometimes men can get away with sport coats and slacks, and women can wear a touch more color for the blouse, e.g.
But with professional there is less creativity. The general idea is a dark suit, white or light shirt/blouse, shine those shoes, you get the message. It is the most respectful, safe choice, especially appropriate for those of us getting a white coat.
That said, I seriously doubt they would throw out your mother for not wearing black to the WCC! But I get the impression that they want to at least aim high for the event to convey the right level of formality. I should think, ducqui, that this would include a minimum of a sport coat for male guests. Sorry! :oops:

...P.S. In case you're wondering where I came by this info, I confess to having a really dorky habit: I collect etiquette books. And I recommend checking with the school for the final word if you're really worried about it. Who knows? Maybe they didn't mean to be so formal, but the above is the general translation of the phrase they used.
 
About the White Coat Ceremony, you will get more instruction. Remember...they will be placing a white coat on you, so, wearing a suit coat is NOT going to happen. Professional dress in medicine is a white coat, not a suit coat.

Take the admissions office's lead on this one. I'm positive that in your orientation they will say, "come without a suit coat".
 
As promised, here are my book recommendations. !!!REMEMBER!!!Books are required because the military doesn't buy any books or equipment that isn't required. For this reason your OMM table will be required, even though only about 50% will buy one.

Click here to see my "recommended" booklist. Remember, books are less than 2 days away worst case scenario. It is ALWAYS best to "wait and see" about books. Most KCOM students purchase very little, since we get such excellent notes.

Anybody curious about why you don't have a pathology book listed? That seems crazy to me!
 
1viking said:
About the White Coat Ceremony, you will get more instruction. Remember...they will be placing a white coat on you, so, wearing a suit coat is NOT going to happen. Professional dress in medicine is a white coat, not a suit coat.

Take the admissions office's lead on this one. I'm positive that in your orientation they will say, "come without a suit coat".
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Regardless of whether or not a jacket is required for students at the ceremony on the 2nd, I would imagine that the remainder of the outfit still needs to follow the dress code outlined. In addition, the 31st is also listed as a professional attire day, before the WCC. So I believe it is appropriate to keep our suits out for that week, especially for the grand opening.
Isn't it interesting how difficult dress code language can be these days, discerning between things like "business casual" and other attire monikers? I once got "snazzy casual" on a party invite and I had a hard time with that one. :confused:

1viking, I don't wish this as confrontational about wardrobe professionalism, but rather am curious as to how you made the distinction that doctors wear white coats, but not suit coats. Is this from observation? My impression is that white coats are worn in a clinical setting (with exceptions). However, as doctors (a conservative profession in general) I expect that there may be many other non-clinical environments in which we should also present ourselves as professional.
For example, I would feel silly attending a conference, going to an interview or attending a hospital event in my white coat.
 
I have never seen a doctor where a suit coat. All the physicians at KCOM wear white coats to lecture (if that). I haven't been to conferences, so, I don't know about that. Didactics at the hospital...white coat. Rounding on patients...white coat. Lectures at school...white coat.

White coats are considered the norm. For instance, anytime I think that the event will be professional attire, I grab my white coat. The school will often say, "white coats required".

The only time I would consider not wearing a white coat is if I presented a paper at a national conference, but that is only because I've never been to one, so I don't know what docs wear there. Also, I would wear a suit coat if interviewing for a job.

As I finish writing this, I have to retract my first statement. I just remembered a doc that lectured to us for a couple of weeks that always wore a suit coat. I guess the point is...you can wear both and be completely safe.
 
1viking said:
I have never seen a doctor where a suit coat. All the physicians at KCOM wear white coats to lecture (if that). I haven't been to conferences, so, I don't know about that. Didactics at the hospital...white coat. Rounding on patients...white coat. Lectures at school...white coat.


The only time I would consider not wearing a white coat is if I presented a paper at a national conference, but that is only because I've never been to one, so I don't know what docs wear there. Also, I would wear a suit coat if interviewing for a job.

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1Viking, First of all, much thanks for your two cents on the required books! For some of us, an extra thousand dollars for books at this point is just not financially possible, so I will wait and see what to buy, and use your list for any pre-buys. Thanks for taking time to work on this list, especially with a new baby!! Congrats by the way!! I know the difficulties of a newborn baby and trying to maintain sanity and study--its tough, but it can be done!! Again congrats to you and your wife!

As far as the 'professional dress code'--I have seen docs use suit and tie during conferences, and other formal events. And I have seen certain docs use them on a regular basis, but they tend to be older docs, who respectfully came from a different time, and societal view of the profession. But the trend is toward casualness--evident in the use of high usage of scrubs--which I personally like. Now, professional attire for the WCC is probably shirt and tie, but remember we will be in the height of the summer in one of the hottest areas in this country--120 degrees--None of my family will use a black suit--its crazy to expect them too. Ill be lucky to get anyone to wear a tie! We are all from the west coast(LA) and suit and tie is a rarity for most events, ever!
 
I think 1viking has a point about not wearing a coat to the WCC. It be difficult to wear a white coat on top of a suit coat. I guess we'll just have to check with the school, although Joyce is out of the office until next week.
 
I emailed Joyce and asked her if a dress and sandals would be appropriate for women to wear for "Professional Attire" or if we needed to wear something similar to what we wore to our interviews (a suit) and she said:

"A dress and sandals are fine. No spaghetti straps or strapless."
 
:idea: Maybe next year then, they should write "something other than casual" for the attire, not "professional dress." Argh! I was really surprised when they DID pull out that term and subsequent level of formality for two days in a week, especially in the crazy heat.
Or maybe they meant to say snazzy casual too, ha ha.
Sorry, it just irks me when etiquette terminology is thrown around so loosely. The result is a confused bunch of people who won't know what to wear. Not that this would be the end of the world, but it's never fun to arrive over- or under-dressed. The point of announcing an event's dress code is to reduce the confusion, not enhance it.
I know I sound like I'm 100 years old, but I am used to functions that tell you what to wear and mean what they say. If they roll differently here that's fine, but I wish they wouldn't be so misleading about it. Use the appropriate term!
And while I'm at it, if the women are allowed a sleeved sun dress and sandals, why should the men suffer with a tie and shirtsleeves? That does not seem fair. I'm just saying...
OK, so let's just all avoid spaghetti straps and jeans. Problem solved! It'll be a hell of a lot cooler in that heat, that's for sure.
Don't worry, I'm stepping off the soap box now.
 
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gonnabeob said:
:idea: Maybe next year then, they should write "something other than casual" for the attire, not "professional dress." Argh! I was really surprised when they DID pull out that term and subsequent level of formality for two days in a week, especially in the crazy heat.
Or maybe they meant to say snazzy casual too, ha ha.
Sorry, it just irks me when etiquette terminology is thrown around so loosely. The result is a confused bunch of people who won't know what to wear. Not that this would be the end of the world, but it's never fun to arrive over- or under-dressed. The point of announcing an event's dress code is to reduce the confusion, not enhance it.
I know I sound like I'm 100 years old, but I am used to functions that tell you what to wear and mean what they say. If they roll differently here that's fine, but I wish they wouldn't be so misleading about it. Use the appropriate term!
And while I'm at it, if the women are allowed a sleeved sun dress and sandals, why should the men suffer with a tie and shirtsleeves? That does not seem fair. I'm just saying...
OK, so let's just all avoid spaghetti straps and jeans. Problem solved! It'll be a hell of a lot cooler in that heat, that's for sure.
Don't worry, I'm stepping off the soap box now.
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LOL, I think this decison is a lot tougher for the women since the men will end up in shirt and tie no matter what. Now the dilemma: wear suit with nice blouse sans jacket or find summer dress without spaghetti straps?

We need a poll: Women which are you going to wear to the WCC: dress or suit?
 
Dress pants with nice shirt. They made it very clear that tattoos cannot show and I have one on my ankle. So I will be in pants all 4 years.
 
i have a feeling the "bro" on the bottom comments is from sdn. hahaha.
 
dseattle said:
i have a feeling the "bro" on the bottom is from sdn. hahaha.
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You Betcha!

DocBR <-- Bro :D

- Just your friendly, neighborhood OMS spreading awareness!
 
I read that article, and the one thing I noticed is that it mentions 6 CHCs in Arizona? Anybody else a bit confused by that statement?
 
i'm planning on wearing a black dress and dress sandals for both "professional attire" events.

GreenShirt said:
LOL, I think this decison is a lot tougher for the women since the men will end up in shirt and tie no matter what. Now the dilemma: wear suit with nice blouse sans jacket or find summer dress without spaghetti straps?

We need a poll: Women which are you going to wear to the WCC: dress or suit?
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DocBR said:
You Betcha!

DocBR <-- Bro :D

- Just your friendly, neighborhood OMS spreading awareness!
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Bro aka Doc BR, thank-you for representing the profession and our 'revolutionary' school!!

It is so important to stand up and fight both ignorance and hypocrisy and I felt proud knowing you are a fellow classmate:thumbup::thumbup:

I promise a Guiness or bevearage of your choice is on me whenever we all decide to get together in the near future!

BTW if we ever get to talking about school mascots--I like the idea of SOMA Revolutionaries:laugh:
 
Have you guys seen the e-mail about the first week of classes and the trip to Northern AZ? It looks like so much fun! Maybe we can convince our prof's to hold classes on hiking trips throughout the year:D Immunology while camping, pathology while white water rafting, anyone?
 
GreenShirt said:
Have you guys seen the e-mail about the first week of classes and the trip to Northern AZ? It looks like so much fun! Maybe we can convince our prof's to hold classes on hiking trips throughout the year:D Immunology while camping, pathology while white water rafting, anyone?
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That's going to be a fun week. I can't really wait for the orientation week though and meet you all. 3 weeks to go.
 
EastWestN2grt said:
Bro aka Doc BR, thank-you for representing the profession and our 'revolutionary' school!!

It is so important to stand up and fight both ignorance and hypocrisy and I felt proud knowing you are a fellow classmate:thumbup::thumbup:

I promise a Guiness or bevearage of your choice is on me whenever we all decide to get together in the near future!

BTW if we ever get to talking about school mascots--I like the idea of SOMA Revolutionaries:laugh:
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:)

I will not be at ATSU-Mesa - although I absolutely loved the school during my interview and it was a difficult decision to not accept the seat they offered me. I am very excited to see how it all turns out, and I think the docs it produces will be top notch (how could they not with the dedication offered by the faculty and administration).

But, I may just have to make my way back to Mesa for that guiness!
 
DocBR said:
:)

I will not be at ATSU-Mesa - although I absolutely loved the school during my interview and it was a difficult decision to not accept the seat they offered me. I am very excited to see how it all turns out, and I think the docs it produces will be top notch (how could they not with the dedication offered by the faculty and administration).

But, I may just have to make my way back to Mesa for that guiness!
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:thumbup::thumbup:
A cold pint is always waiting for those who support la revolucion!:D
 
Help, I'm going under the knife this Friday! Wisdom teeth removal and I'm beyond freaked out. I've never had any dental or surgical work done and I'm worried I'll be one of the 1 in 200,000 people that dies from anesthesia. I know it's a common procedure, but I wonder if it's really necessary. Unfortunately, I don't think I'll have dental coverage in medical school, so now's the time to have it done while I'm still covered by work. EEEEEEEEEKKKKK!!!!! :eek::eek::eek:
 
GreenShirt said:
Help, I'm going under the knife this Friday! Wisdom teeth removal and I'm beyond freaked out. I've never had any dental or surgical work done and I'm worried I'll be one of the 1 in 200,000 people that dies from anesthesia. I know it's a common procedure, but I wonder if it's really necessary. Unfortunately, I don't think I'll have dental coverage in medical school, so now's the time to have it done while I'm still covered by work. EEEEEEEEEKKKKK!!!!! :eek::eek::eek:
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Hey Greenshirt, I had 4 wisdom teeth extracted (such a benign word for ripped out) last tuesday. Im post-op day 6 and my jaw is still killing me, but I'm alive. I don't know if the anesthesia deaths include conscious sedation deaths which is what you'll probably be getting (ie. versed, fentanyl, and diprivan aka milk of amnesia:sleep:) All great drugs we used in the ER to facilitate reduction of fractures/dislocations most of the time. Out of probably 100+ I've participated in I've only ever had a problem twice, once with a kid who got too much ketamine due to nursing error (they don't use it much), and once because no one was in the room monitoring a drunk dude that took way too many narcs to get relaxed enough to pop his shoulder back in. He was purple and apneic when I walked in the room:p, but pinked right back up with some bagging and a BLS airway.

So, in summary, don't worry, it is a common procedure, demand percodan instead of vicodin, and plan on 2-3 days of convalescence where narcotics, ice packs, and bad daytime tv are your best friends. Good luck, and we can compare war stories when we get to orientation!
 
GreenShirt said:
Help, I'm going under the knife this Friday! Wisdom teeth removal and I'm beyond freaked out. I've never had any dental or surgical work done and I'm worried I'll be one of the 1 in 200,000 people that dies from anesthesia. I know it's a common procedure, but I wonder if it's really necessary. Unfortunately, I don't think I'll have dental coverage in medical school, so now's the time to have it done while I'm still covered by work. EEEEEEEEEKKKKK!!!!! :eek::eek::eek:
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Awww, you poor thing! That absolutely sucks, given how much anxiety we're all feeling already about moving and starting school, etc. :(

Bear in mind that this anxiety might be making you worry more than you ordinarily would about things like the anesthesia, and that's OK and normal. Everyone is freaked about his or her 1st surgery, if it helps! I was! But I'm sure everyone here will agree that you'll be just fine! :love:
This is the last thing you need, I'm sure. But to do it now (before impaction and lack of dental coverage) IS probably the wisest course of action.
I took care of my hubby when he had his out and I've never seen him that bad off. Just plan for Mom/friend/etc. to help, OK? Recovery WILL take a few days and you'll want someone there to crack open your ensure shakes and load the DVD player, especially the first day. But again, you will be OK!
If all else fails, try to think of the kick-ass trip to North AZ they've planned for us for second week! I believe positive thought helps recovery (though I know that sounds like a lame platitude!).
Either way, I'm sending you :luck::luck::luck::luck::luck: for Friday.
 
Thanks for your support gonnabob and EMT2DO!!! They'll probably have to tie me to the chair on Friday to do it, but I'll try to suck it up for now. I think the only positive thing about this experience is that it'll help me better understand my future patient's concerns about surgery/anesthesia. When I was an ED-tech, I was never felt comfortable saying things like "You'll be fine!" or "That procedure is no big deal" to comfort anxious patients b/c I didn't feel I had the base to legitimately do so. Maybe after this, I'll be able to (at least for tooth removal procedures!). That's the way I'm trying to resolve my cognitive dissonance.....I have to do it for the future patients....yeah...*wimper*.

I am psyched about our trip though! I gave my final meeting for work today and included pictures of SOMA, my new apartment, and details of our hiking outing in a shameless attempt to make all my co-workers jealous of how exciting my new life is going to be (I think it worked too!):D
 
GreenShirt said:
a shameless attempt to make all my co-workers jealous of how exciting my new life is going to be (I think it worked too!):D
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Exciting in a "your life as you knew it is over" kinda way. In some regards, medical school sucks. In many others, it is wonderful.
 
1viking said:
Exciting in a "your life as you knew it is over" kinda way. In some regards, medical school sucks. In many others, it is wonderful.
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Party pooper :p! I think the longer I stay in my delusional "Med School will be paradise" state the better:banana:
 
sorry to break the conversation, but everyone should watch "sicko" by michael moore. i think it should be mandatory for all those going into any health related profession and especially for us somado's.. i know that with any media presentation there can be some bias or agenda (its hard to tell on this one), but when it comes to health, there should be no political polarization, yet in our country there is. if anything i am glad to be part of a school and that is fully committed, and finally addressing the health care issues in our country. itd be cool to get a conversation started up here!

http://www.sicko-themovie.com/

[YOUTUBE]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yiEl1EcqnAY[/YOUTUBE]
 
dseattle said:
i know that with any media presentation there can be some bias or agenda (its hard to tell on this one)
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Did you watch the movie? From his prior offerings I wasn't expecting fair and balanced from Mr. Moore, and I wasn't surprised in the least by his obviously one-sided, emotionally motivated 'editorial' on American healthcare. Don't get me wrong, the system is broken. Managed care and malpractice lawyers have seen to it that no doctor is allowed to make their own decisions regarding patient care anymore. However, Mr. Moore's obvious advocacy for socialized medicince (see second half of film and various interviews including recently on the daily show when he stated that "Canada has it figured out.") is in blatant disregard for the problems inherent in such a system and the even larger problem of converting the capitalism-based American system to something like that of the U.K., Canada, or France. There is a problem when it takes two years to get a knee replacement plus the months to get the referral, or weeks to get an MRI because the one machine in the entire province of Alberta is 'somewhere else'. This is the unhappy half of government run medicine that Mr. Moore failed to address in his film. Possibly as many people are dying waiting for treatment in Canada due to lack of resources as Mr. Moore laments that delays by managed care is responsible for in the States. And yeah, I want the US government in charge of my health, the same people that have long been too busy fighting along party lines to enact any real change in a country with plenty of room for improvement. Like Mr. Moore, I see no easy solution to the problem, and will offer none except my dad's solution (He's an FP in a CHC) which is to kill all the lawyers. I would advocate just stealing their money to fund CHC's/care for the middle class.

So, after all that, I have another question for you guys, Is anyone considering/signed up for a military HPSP? I am considering the Naval scholarship, but haven't signed the papers yet. Anyone else from the class considering this PM me, or post here.
 
EMT2DO said:
So, after all that, I have another question for you guys, Is anyone considering/signed up for a military HPSP? I am considering the Naval scholarship, but haven't signed the papers yet. Anyone else from the class considering this PM me, or post here.
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Oddly enough, on one of my interviews, one leg of my flight was cancelled so I had to rent a car in the night to drive the rest of the way (arg!!!). I ended up renting the car with a woman who coordinated the military HPSP for the Navy. She recommended applying to the airforce first, then the navy, and the army as a last resort (I guess b/c the assignments would be less dangerous with the first two). She thought the programs were great. Her and her husband have been in the Navy for life and have had a good experience.

I did consider it, but figured it would put too much strain on my relationship with my significant other since you have to go where ever they send you. I will also boycott US Airways for life. I travelled with them on my first two interviews, both times flights cancelled:mad:
 
EMT2DO said:
Did you watch the movie? From his prior offerings I wasn't expecting fair and balanced from Mr. Moore,
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yeah i had to rethink that part in parenthesis, but if you think about it, how is this film any different from media with an opposing viewpoint; and arguably isnt all media biased propaganda? what kind of things did you guys come up with when researching healthcare systems in preparation for your interviews? was it hard to find anything not polarized or biased, especially on socialized systems.

i did think the most clever person in the movie was that ex-parliament guy...if anything this movie really shows how politicized everything in society is. (political in the sense that there is motivations and incentives outside the obvious ones and people are being manipulated). i give it props because it is getting the public thinking and talking more about their health.

inthe415 said:
There are already a number of threads about the Michael Moore movie. So you might want to check them out.
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i thought this thread would be a good place to bring it up seeing the nature of our school.
 
Thanks guys! I just won a nickel...
I knew Sicko was going to be water cooler talk at our school!!!
It was only a matter of time...

Do you guys think Moore was implying that we should adopt exactly the systems of the other countries he toured in the movie, or was part of it offering hope that we could as a nation get it right by prioritizing differently (as a start)?
Because the movie didn't strike me as solutions-oriented, but rather a method to show the discrepancy of care. I think our school and the CHC organizations are representative of (part of!) the solution, however. I'm proud of that.

But the pharmaceutical element is particularly hard to solve. The inhaler example was great ($100 here, 5 cents in Cuba) but I have no idea how we would begin to fix that. The current US prices in part offset the costs in other countries, so a quick adjustment to equalize them would seriously affect our allies and their own heath care systems. What do you guys think?
 
Although I'd like to think that universal healthcare access should be a basic human right, I think that is unfeasible to actually realize it. Everyone wants the best healthcare, but not many want to (or can afford to) pay for it. If we completely socialized medicine (as glorified in the movie) then we have to deal with the waitlists. Solution? Create more healthcare providers. Problem? More healthcare providers would cost more money to produce (see problem with physician shortages in this country). Which brings us back to the problem in this country: not enough money in the system.

I think part of the solution will be to make healthcare insurance mandatory as they have done in MA, that might help retain some of the cost lost by uninsured individuals using healthcare services. Although, I admit that I know next to nothing about economics, so I don't know if that would even make a dent in things.

Speaking of economics, does anyone regret not taking business or economics class in college. If you're going into primary care, as our school emphasises, that almost always means private practice which requires business sense. If I tried to set up a practice right now, I'd go bankrupt without the knowledge of how to hagle with the insurance companies or who to hier and fire. This side of medicine really wories me.
 
First...greenshirt, I was an economics major in undergrad, and I'm very glad for that. I am a well prepared to analyze cost/benefit ratios as well as foresee negative externalities, things that Mr. Moore obviously lacks.

I am a very firm believer that policies that affect our economy in such a huge way should NOT be decided by politicians, but by economists.

Read a review of Sicko from The CATO institute (arguably the largest organization of economists). Also, here is the health care policy of CATO. We are all being trained to be scientists; it is important to not neglect the mathematics and principles that have been proven to be true...open free markets are the most efficient.

About drugs costing a large amount here and pennies in other countries...most don't know this, but, the U.S. number 5 (you heard it--5) export in dollars is...pharmaceuticals (if I remember correctly--I looked it up on the BEA's website last week). This is after cotton and electronic components. For durable goods, it is number 3, and FAR outweighs many other products. The reason why we pay more than them is another amazing feat of economics...profit surplus. What a Cuban would pay for a certain drug may be $.05, but the American will pay $100. This will crowd out some that can't afford it, but, the profit gets maximized.

The negative externality that Moore forgets is that drug companies invest billions of dollars into R&D with the hope of having patents that will assure them profits. If you cap these profits (regulation), then, the level of R&D doesn't reach previous amounts, and, the $100 drug that is $.05 in Cuba isn't ever developed (because there is no incentive to invest the drug). So, while the drugs are cheap, new ones won't exist (we are all very glad we have Gleevec)! With the MRSA crisis escalating, our only hope is for drug companies to develop antibiotics to keep our flora intact.

PLEASE, Don't fall prey to a film maker's claims that has NO economic training and has very little credentials to lead a health care revolution.
 
I haven't been able to find the place where we RSVP for the white coat ceremony on the ATSU web site. If anybody has figured this out, if they could PM that to me? Also, I never received the academic schedule for the year so if someone could post the Christmas break as well as the final date in July and any other breaks. Thank you!
 
ducqui said:
I haven't been able to find the place where we RSVP for the white coat ceremony on the ATSU web site. If anybody has figured this out, if they could PM that to me? Also, I never received the academic schedule for the year so if someone could post the Christmas break as well as the final date in July and any other breaks. Thank you!
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The RSVP link is at the bottom of each page of the schedule pdf. On the tentative schedule, witner break is December 24-Jan 2 (not very long).
 
Hello Guys, I posted this on the ATSU forum but I thought I should also post it here. In Dr. Wood welcome letter, he mentioned that they will have a Physical Examination equipment package ready for us to pick up and the cost will be deducted from our financial aid. Does anyone knows what to do if we already have some equipments purchased or giving to us as gifts by family members? Can we return the package and get refunded?

BTW, Brandon if you are around here, Call me man. I emailed and called you but no answer. I hope you are not out of town. J/k
 
1viking said:
First...greenshirt, I was an economics major in undergrad, and I'm very glad for that. I am a well prepared to analyze cost/benefit ratios as well as foresee negative externalities, things that Mr. Moore obviously lacks.

I am a very firm believer that policies that affect our economy in such a huge way should NOT be decided by politicians, but by economists.

Read a review of Sicko from The CATO institute (arguably the largest organization of economists). Also, here is the health care policy of CATO. We are all being trained to be scientists; it is important to not neglect the mathematics and principles that have been proven to be true...open free markets are the most efficient.

About drugs costing a large amount here and pennies in other countries...most don't know this, but, the U.S. number 5 (you heard it--5) export in dollars is...pharmaceuticals (if I remember correctly--I looked it up on the BEA's website last week). This is after cotton and electronic components. For durable goods, it is number 3, and FAR outweighs many other products. The reason why we pay more than them is another amazing feat of economics...profit surplus. What a Cuban would pay for a certain drug may be $.05, but the American will pay $100. This will crowd out some that can't afford it, but, the profit gets maximized.

The negative externality that Moore forgets is that drug companies invest billions of dollars into R&D with the hope of having patents that will assure them profits. If you cap these profits (regulation), then, the level of R&D doesn't reach previous amounts, and, the $100 drug that is $.05 in Cuba isn't ever developed (because there is no incentive to invest the drug). So, while the drugs are cheap, new ones won't exist (we are all very glad we have Gleevec)! With the MRSA crisis escalating, our only hope is for drug companies to develop antibiotics to keep our flora intact.

PLEASE, Don't fall prey to a film maker's claims that has NO economic training and has very little credentials to lead a health care revolution.
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Greenshirt--I also was a political economics major in undergrad up until my senior year when I realized how bloody BORING economics actually was and instead finished as a history-poli sci major.

1viking completely disagree with you--dare we let economists like your Michael Tanner be in charge of something as socially important as a national healthcare system, just look at his personal overview:...

'His approach is based on individual responsibility rather than government control. His most recent book, Leviathan on the Right: How Big-Government Conservatism Brought Down the Republican Revolution (2007), chronicles the demise of the Republican party as it has shifted away from its limited government roots and warns that reform is necessary to avoid electoral defeat in 2008.

Under Tanner's direction, Cato launched the Project on Social Security Choice, which is widely considered the leading impetus for transforming the soon-to-be-bankrupt system into a private savings program. Time Magazine calls Tanner, "one of the architects of the private accounts movement," '
I mean this guy 'screams' right wing neo-con W. Bush-ite with maybe a bit of libertarianism. If I probe a bit deeper, I would not be surprised to see insurance and pharma companies in his back pocket.

Yes, there are problems with socialized medicine, and no I dont believe the systems in France, Britain or Canada would be ideal for the US. But I would much rather see any of these systems than see the the extreme health disparities we have in the US with a system that benefits only the smallest percentage in our country(the rich) while the majority middle and lower economic classes suffer inadequate and many times NO care at all. At least these countries provide a safety net for their weakest, poorest population--if it wasnt for the CHC movement I would say our country has NO safety net. But the NACHC has a patient population base of 15 million out of the 47 million uninsured, not to mention the underinsured in our country, there are millions falling through the gaps in our supposed safety net.

To justify the extreme profit margins of drug companies as being necessary for R+D is absolutely ludicrous! R+D in big pharma is not about finding solutions for the worlds deadliest diseases, it is simply about finding a drug that can be marketed to make the maximum profit possible for these companies--there is little humanitarian in the actions of these companies. Advertising costs alone is where a significant percentage of these R+D costs end up.

With a single payer system in this country the cost of drugs would become regulated and would significantly drop--dont think that for one second any of these big Pharma companies would just decide to 'close shop' because their profit margins have dropped. We are the wealthiest country in the world, they will still make billions of dollars from American patients, but at least the prices will be fair.

But realistically, there are so many politician with their greasy hands in insurance and pharmas cookie jars that I doubt we will ever see change in our lifetime.:thumbdown: Dont EVER trust companies whose sole objective in the 'noble field of medicine' is to increase profits for their stakeholders ( it has nothing to do with patients or to better society) it truly is that black and white.

I dont know, maybe if I get frustrated enough one day, Ill take what I learn at SOMA and the CHC movement and make my way to Canada, or Britain or even France... but I like to remain optomistic!
 
Have you checked out the Military Medicine forums on SDN. I just met with the Army HPSP recruiter today. Was also going to meet with the Navy one as well, but will save that for a different time. Its a major committment and I think you should hear what others who have gone through it think--this si a great place to get started in case you havent seen it already:
http://forums.studentdoctor.net/showthread.php?t=277310
 
For those who dont believe that Pharmaceutical companies are ONLY about the continuing increase of company profits, check out the Access to Essential Medicines campaign by Medecins sans frontiers (Doctors without borders) against Novartis. Then come back and tell us what you think!

http://www.accessmed-msf.org/index.asp
 
1Viking, I think you will be able to answer this question: for Atlas of Human Anotomy, how does the International edition (4th) differ from the regular one (I assume there is one).
 
EastWestN2grt said:
Have you checked out the Military Medicine forums on SDN. I just met with the Army HPSP recruiter today. Was also going to meet with the Navy one as well, but will save that for a different time. Its a major committment and I think you should hear what others who have gone through it think--this si a great place to get started in case you havent seen it already:
http://forums.studentdoctor.net/showthread.php?t=277310
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I finished my Navy physical testing today and I'm 90% sure I will take my commission when it comes through in mid-September. I would take anything that I read on SDN with a large grain of salt because most of the people on there are people with a negative attitude about military medicine. While it is important to listen to their opinions, largely they are the same problems they would have in the civilian sector ie. administrative work taking up pt care time, managed care (Tri-Care), GMO tours (which I am assured are going away), etc. I personally spoke with the doctor in charge of Navy HPSP and he gave it to me as straight as it can be. PS If you are considering it, talk to your recruiter now, if you are processed by September 30th you get a 20k sign on bonus with the Navy. If you want to know more, I've done a lot of research on it, PM me. Good luck with your decision.
 
I posted 5 new "how to" videos on my website. These include:

1. How to send a Class-Wide Email (even though I think I may have to edit the video)
2. How to load the school calendar into Outlook/Google
3. How to download MP3s from Noteservice
4. How to search the faculty directory

You can view them here.

These videos are made from a KCOM standpoint (the link on the ATSU portal for the Calendars is a KCOM link--you don't have it, though you might have something similar).



I'm also going to be making OneNote videos in the next week or two...these are:

"How To":

Create a notebook
Audio record
Audio record using stereo mixer
Customize OneNote toolbars
Search notebooks
Screen clip
CTRL-M
Outlook Meetings (integration with OneNote)
Publish as PDF
Save as Notebook
Save as Section
Save as Website (brand new REALLY cool feature)

Also, the videos assume you are using OneNote 2007 and Outlook 2007. These two programs work REALLY well together and makes my life much more efficient.

I know that the school loaded Office 2003 on your computers...if you are interested in purchasing Office 2007, read this.

I can't say exactly why the school didn't load the computers with Office 2007 and OneNote 2007, nor can I say what the consequences are of installing programs on your computer (do they allow you to do that?). I will say this...if I could install OneNote 2007 on my computer, I would rather have a root canal than use OneNote 2003. That program, while revolutionary, is SO buggy. I would venture to say that every KCOM OneNote 2003 user has upgraded to OneNote 2007. Most say they were stupid for waiting so long to upgrade because of the improvements in 2007. And, with the shared notebooks, you have VERY LITTLE concern about losing your notes due to hard drive failure. You will sleep easy knowing this.

Guys, you are going to want OneNote 2007. You are also going to want to practice using it. So, find out if the school will allow you to install 3rd party applications, and then get it if they do! You can download a trial from Microsoft while you wait for it to come. Use my videos to practice setting up Notebooks. At the beginning of every quarter out here I have done a tutorial for those that bought tablets over break...I won't be able to do that out there, so, watch my videos! You will be glad you did.

If you have questions, DON'T PM me. Email me via this link.


btw...call me Erik
 
dseattle said:
yeah i had to rethink that part in parenthesis, but if you think about it, how is this film any different from media with an opposing viewpoint; and arguably isnt all media biased propaganda? what kind of things did you guys come up with when researching healthcare systems in preparation for your interviews? was it hard to find anything not polarized or biased, especially on socialized systems.

i did think the most clever person in the movie was that ex-parliament guy...if anything this movie really shows how politicized everything in society is. (political in the sense that there is motivations and incentives outside the obvious ones and people are being manipulated). i give it props because it is getting the public thinking and talking more about their health.



i thought this thread would be a good place to bring it up seeing the nature of our school.
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I agree whole heartedly. I thought it was an excellent movie. My parents had to drive an hour away from their retirement community in order to see it, because the theater in their retirement community refused to show anything remotely questioning GW. And Like most Americans they too would like to see universal healthcare. I still haven't quite convinced them to boycot Walmart, but I'll keep working on it.
 
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