The Iran Nuclear Deal

[mostwanted]

I call BS. Near a million german citizen non-combatants were killed by the allies in WW2. The carpet bombing of Dresden alone shows estimates of 100,000 men/women/children killed in an area strategically unimportant for the allies:
http://www.history.com/topics/world-war-ii/battle-of-dresden

Again, all historical accounts say these killed citizens had little to do with the Nazi war machine. If you have any objectivity as you claim, you will admit this is FAR MORE ethically suspect in comparison to what the Israeli's have done to defend themselves.

Are you really comparing WWII between super powers versus Israel's (world class military) aerial and ground assault on a blockaded and subjugated sub third world population and one of the most densely populated areas on the planet?

German civilians certainly suffered and that was wrong, and that certainly doesn't give Israel a license to kill civilians in such disproportionate numbers.

"In total, 2,251 Palestinians were killed, including 1,462 Palestinian civilians, among them 551 children, the report states. More than 11,000 Palestinians, including 3,540 women and 3,436 children, were injured with almost 10 percent suffering permanent disabilities. Six civilians died in Israel and more than 60 Israeli soldiers died in fighting with the Palestinian resistance."

UN Report of the Independent Commission of Inquiry on the 2014 Gaza Conflict
http://www.ohchr.org/EN/HRBodies/HRC/CoIGazaConflict/Pages/ReportCoIGaza.aspx#report

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[gassed]

Any nuanced discussion about the US and Iran has to acknowledge the US involvement in bringing about the current fundamentalist regime, which goes back to the 1950s and the CIA-financed coup against the democratically-elected Iranian Prime Minister Mossadegh. The reason for the coup was-you guessed it-oil.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mohammad_Mosaddegh
Money quote:
"In retrospect, not only did the CIA and the US underestimate the extent of popular discontent for the Shah, but much of that discontent historically stemmed from the removal of Mosaddegh and the subsequent clientelism of the Shah. The US-backed coup, in effect, had ended Iran's last fully democratic government, and there would be no return of democracy even after the Shah's removal."

 

[jl lin]

Are you really comparing WWII between super powers versus Israel's (world class military) aerial and ground assault on a blockaded and subjugated sub third world population and one of the most densely populated areas on the planet?

German civilians certainly suffered and that was wrong, and that certainly doesn't give Israel a license to kill civilians in such disproportionate numbers.

"In total, 2,251 Palestinians were killed, including 1,462 Palestinian civilians, among them 551 children, the report states. More than 11,000 Palestinians, including 3,540 women and 3,436 children, were injured with almost 10 percent suffering permanent disabilities. Six civilians died in Israel and more than 60 Israeli soldiers died in fighting with the Palestinian resistance."

UN Report of the Independent Commission of Inquiry on the 2014 Gaza Conflict
http://www.ohchr.org/EN/HRBodies/HRC/CoIGazaConflict/Pages/ReportCoIGaza.aspx#report

-->Iran has 800,000 Missiles Pointed at Tel Aviv; Israel is the murderous brute. People need to get their information straight ASAP.

And please don't get me started on the UN. I see a lot of what they are about as Universally Nauseating (true acronym for UN).

The socialists are totally cool with working together with deadly, radical, and tyrannical Islam.

 

[FollowTheMoney]

Are you really comparing WWII between super powers versus Israel's (world class military) aerial and ground assault on a blockaded and subjugated sub third world population and one of the most densely populated areas on the planet?

German civilians certainly suffered and that was wrong, and that certainly doesn't give Israel a license to kill civilians in such disproportionate numbers.

"In total, 2,251 Palestinians were killed, including 1,462 Palestinian civilians, among them 551 children, the report states. More than 11,000 Palestinians, including 3,540 women and 3,436 children, were injured with almost 10 percent suffering permanent disabilities. Six civilians died in Israel and more than 60 Israeli soldiers died in fighting with the Palestinian resistance."

UN Report of the Independent Commission of Inquiry on the 2014 Gaza Conflict
http://www.ohchr.org/EN/HRBodies/HRC/CoIGazaConflict/Pages/ReportCoIGaza.aspx#report

Yeah, it is a shame isn't it? It is a downright travesty that Hamas murdered 1,462 people, but I guess that's the cost of promoting terrorism and inciting violence.

 

[Planktonmd]

Why in the world is it acceptable to state something like the above^ here, when, if comments like that were directed toward other races, gays, or those of other religions, it would get hit with a warning for stepping out of the Terms of Service boundaries? It's OK to make obnoxious comments re: Jews and Christians.

But it's not just here. It's all over the place. People can belittle Christians and Jews. . .that's fine--everyone else, it's off limits.

This kind of disparate application of terms is just straight up wrong.

I am not sure why you find stating a fact offensive?
No one is belittling anyone, it's a fact everyone knows that there are some simple minded people out there recruited to support ideologies they don't understand in the name of God, it happens all the time and if you find that offensive its probably because you are one of those easily guided good folks.

 

[Planktonmd]

Repeating a completely offensive post that violates TOS is hateful, bigoted, and idiotic. . .but you know, you've pretty much revealed some things about you and others that reinforce the hateful philosophy that says tolerance and respectfulness should only apply to "other" religions, non-religious person, and other all other groups but not FOR JEWS AND CHRISTIANS. Good job.

Not surprised by the hate, just the tolerance of it.

Zionism is a political movement, it's not a race or a religion, and I am pretty sure that the US constitution allows people to have opinions even if these opinions are too complicated for you to comprehend.

 

[Planktonmd]

It's very shocking to see people who claim to be scientists and evidence oriented employ rhetoric that is so primitive and so naive.
Obviously going to college does not equal being educated anymore.
People are not learning anything and that's why they are so easily manipulated and recruited to serve the wrong causes.

 

[jw3600]

Holy ****. Blade is posing bat**** religious fervor implying we should base diplomacy off fairy tales written by corrupt churches and jl lin is acting like she understands anything while simultaneously playing the victim card. This thread needs to be old yeller-ed.

 

[doctalaughs]

I never said what we did in WWII was justified. Dresden is considered to be a tragedy by most historians. The only time it was justified was when we were taking out those that were a part of the war machine (such as the firebombings of industrial Japan, which even the Japanese admit were necessary to end the war, as without them their factories could not have been made non-operational). Intent doesn't matter- we committed several atrocities during WWII, and people should have answered for them to prevent their happening in the future. The only reason they weren't considered atrocities largely hinged on the fact that the international laws that determined what constituted unjust warfare has not yet been applied to aerial combat, as such methods of war didn't exist when the treaties were signed. If we did Dresden today, it would be a straight up war crime, as the treaties have been amended.

As to civilians, the Axis powers massacred far more civilians overall than the Allied powers, care of the Holocaust, the raids on London, and many of the fascist going ons in Italy and China by the Italian fascists and the Japanese. There isn't even a comparison in regard to Axis civilians murder- all of our bombings combined, nukes included, measure up to a fraction of the people murdered by the Germans.

Clearly Im not going to change your mind or some others on this board if you think intent doesn't play into ethics.

Out of curiosity, if you had to assign percentage blame for the current situation to Israel, to the Palestinians, to the US and to surrounding Arab nations with influence in the region (like Iran) how would you assign those numbers?

 

[pgg]

And that is exactly why 1/3 of this country despises the Liberal left. They hate God, Christians and those that stand with our Lord.

Blade, drink a cup of coffee. Or quit drinking coffee. Whatever ... get your plasma caffeine levels back whatever your physiologic norm is. Stat.


This thread has strayed far afar from the original topic, and has devolved into a Religion A vs Religion B pissing match. We play lots of non-anesthesia games here, but we don't play that game. Closing.

 

[Arch Guillotti]

And that is exactly why 1/3 of this country despises the Liberal left. They hate God, Christians and those that stand with our Lord.

This is inflammatory and quite frankly nonsense. Get it together.