The nontraditional nontraditional transplant route.

[singoutoftune]

Hello everyone,

First of all, sorry for the terrible title. So I've posted previously in the 'What are my chances?' forum. Basically, I'm currently your typical post-bachelor nontraditional twenty something back at a four year university, finishing up my prerequisites 3.71 GPA 3.79 sciGPA 32Q. My original plan was to apply June 2010, however I decided this summer to spend one more year doing more extra-curricular stuff and save money. You see, I am deadly afraid of debt--especially your typical 150k-200k worth that inevitably accompanies private and out of state tuition. I've pretty much made up my mind to stick to sub 15k annual tuition from a decent instate school. Certainly, my home state school, the University of Washington falls under that category beautifully. However, if I apply as a Washington resident, it's my only shot; definitely prestigious but subsequently not even close to guaranteed.
So I've been seriously considering an alternative. If I do my ECs and work full time in Texas (Austin), I should have a handsome lump of money, a much better application (for May, 2012), state residency and at least 10 in-state schools to choose from with 10k tuition on average. In theory, my chances should be approaching that elusive guarantee (or at least statistical certainty ). And for two years (which I would strongly contend to be well spent), it seems too good to be true. No really, I must be missing something. I want to start a serious conversation about the merits and drawbacks of taking a few years to establish residency in high-opportunity states (Florida, Illinois, Pennsylvania, Ohio have also been mentioned).
Is anyone in the same boat? Have you known anyone who has done this? Was it successful?
I am particularly interested in hearing first-hand accounts, but any good input is much appreciated. I couldn't find a decent conversation about this method, so we might as well start one.

Oh yeah, I wanted to get the obvious out of the way: anchors. This route is obviously difficult for people with obligations such as a house, friends, family, a job. While I don't have any real ties, I'd still be interested in hearing people negotiating these things.

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[LingoLaine]

I don't have much to contribute here as I've got all my eggs in one basket (applying only to my state school) but I can definitely relate to the proposition you're making and am very interested in hearing the responses.

I just moved my whole family 40 miles south to be closer to our state school with the hopes of attending there eventually. I've decided I'm willing to apply three times before I give up and figure out plan B. Hopefully it won't come to that.

 

[Pons Asinorum]

Rumor is that UC likes non-trads. Best of luck to you.

I don't have much to contribute here as I've got all my eggs in one basket (applying only to my state school) but I can definitely relate to the proposition you're making and am very interested in hearing the responses.

I just moved my whole family 40 miles south to be closer to our state school with the hopes of attending there eventually. I've decided I'm willing to apply three times before I give up and figure out plan B. Hopefully it won't come to that.

 

[LingoLaine]

Thanks Pons, I've heard that too and am hoping it works in my favor.

 

[mspeedwagon]

Read "Rich Dad, Poor Dad" and it'll basically tell you what I'm about to say in a much more elaborate fashion.

There is good debt and there is bad debt. The debt taken on for medical school is good debt. It will pay itself back. The lost income from spending a year or two mucking about in order to become in-state is pretty much a waste of time.

Also, a few states tend to look unfavorably on students that move to their state just to establish state residency (MA is a good example).

If you end up spending a year to establish state residency and then end of up going to a private school because you don't get in anywhere in-state, you'd be really foolish to have lost the time/future income.

Learn now to be willing to take on good debt or you'll forever be "poor dad."

 

[singoutoftune]

Mspeedwagon,

Though your post strays from the topic at hand, you make an interesting point. There is no question that medical school is a major financial decision. However, I think you are misguided to make black-and-white generalizations about finance—most generalizations are. The source you site is no exception; before I even finished typing "rich dad, poor dad" Google suggested "rich dad, poor dad scam." There is apparently a plethora of criticism, most suggesting that it is nothing more than an overpriced motivational seminar/book series supported with vague anecdotes. See this review: http://online.wsj.com/article/SB116052181216688592.html?mod=money_page_left_hs

Finance is complicated and unpredictable. Make no mistake. If you disagree, perhaps you should mortgage your house and go trade penny-stocks. There are plenty of shady get-rich-quick schemes that will show you how. No? How about attending a 60,000 a year medical school, only to realize you can't cut it. Perhaps you even hate it. You'd really be foolish to have to pay that $250,000 (plus living expenses) off whilst working a desk job.
Does that sound excessive? A guy in my lab just took out a $100,000 loan to get his family through his first year or DO school alone. That is precisely what I want to avoid.

So let's get back on topic. The point of taking a year off to get Texas residency is not only to save on in-state tuition--which essentially means you are immediately saving up to $200,000 (not a bad stipend for waiting a year, no?) More importantly, it increases the chances of acceptance by not only giving you 9 instate MD schools EXTRA to apply to, but also with a year's worth of extra-curriculars/experience on your application. Large application cycles cost thousands of dollars, why not make it that much more certain when you go through it?

Bah, I could go on. Besides, who cares if you practice for 36 years out of residency instead of 35? Either way, you'll be a rich Dad. Haha, come to think of it I could make the argument that the stress of a decade of paying down hundreds of thousands of debt would wear on your health, forcing you to retire earlier. But now we are getting silly.

 

[mspeedwagon]

Let me start with the topic at hand: If you are going to do this, the best states are Florida and Texas. They both have quite a few state medical school and their averages are below your stats. Texas has a cost advantage over the Florida state schools.


A few random points (off topic so I apologize in advance):
Now to a few comments below. I don't disagree with part of the rich dad, poor dad criticism. There are a lot of books like it (automatic millionaire for example). Also, would you buy a million dollar house when you had a million dollar or when you could put a 20% downpayment on it. For most, it would be the latter. I think medical school is a similar investment.

As for falling out of medical school: I have NEVER met any one that has failed out of a US med school in my entire life and at this point I know over a thousand people that have attended or are attending (my gf is in the latter category). I've known one person to leave medical school when she decided she didn't care for medicine and went to law school instead.

As for the person that took a 100k loan for a year in D.O. school that is excessive. If you budget 50k per year, you'd be ok paying it off. I could probably currently pay off a 50k a yr on a loan at my current desk job.

 

[singoutoftune]

I suppose you are right that it is infrequent for people admitted to medical school to not continue further, but it does happen. I found this to be relevant: http://www.aamc.org/data/aib/aibissues/aibvol7_no2.pdf

I agree with you though, medicine will be lucrative no matter what you paid in tuition. This is especially true if you are talented enough to get a high paying specialty. Perhaps it is just me, I am strange to be committed to a relatively debt free life. I know quite a few people, friends and a few family members, who were seduced by the real estate market back in 2006-2007. Property values seemed to be climbing tirelessly, and conventional wisdom at the time suggested it to be one of the safest investments at the time. My brother, for example, made a 20% down payment on a $350,000 with the hopes of flipping the houses for a profit. Of course, the rest is history (destined to repeat itself?), and now he owes something like $270,000 dollars on a house he would be lucky to sell for a 3/4th of what he paid. Solid conventional wisdom, and he is stuck. He might break even in another five years. But hey, he won't be foreclosing.
Irrelevant right? Perhaps. I suspect that we will all live to see another major overhaul of the healthcare system, particularly as the baby boomers hit medicare and the systemic cracks begin to show. American doctors are by far the highest paid in the world. Is this sustainable? Will the extravagant wages remain the same? No one knows the answer. Personally, I can foresee adaptation of some of the staples of foreign countries coming into play to essentially increase the supply of doctors/care takers (because demand is so inelastic). For example, students going straight into medical school after high school, a push to open a slew of new schools, tuition-caps.
Enough speculating, the point is we live in precarious times—especially when it comes to medicine. I'd rather play it safe in the short term, especially if it means reaching the same end albeit a year or so later.

And yes, my dear old DO friend is insane. But he has a dream, two kids, and housewife.

 

[Zxvwt]

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