Thoughts on Loyola accepting undocumented immigrants?

[sletten]

In the real world we live in, our parent's decisions affect our lives and opportunities. Illegal immigrants are aware of the consequences of ILLEGALLY entering the US... and they are aware that the consequences also apply to their children. Their is a path to citizenship. It is long and difficult, but necessary. Admitting illegal immigrants to medical school over qualified US citizens is only going to amplify the issue at hand. Ignoring the fact that these people are here illegally and providing federal loans for their education will increase the incentive for illegal immigration to continue.

The path to citizenship is much more difficult to access than you make it seem. Otherwise, why wouldn't they just legalize their status? While some may knowingly enter illegally, you leave out many cases of human trafficking, exploitation, etc. How do you deal with them? Who said anything about providing federal loans? DACA approved students do not qualify for any federal loans whatsoever.

Not to mention that if they're given legal immunity for the purposes of residency training, they're getting medical training for free. It is "estimated" that training a single resident for one year costs about $100,000.

Medical training for free? How is it free? Just because you may disagree with a decision that Loyola took, it shouldn't affect what actually true and what's isn't.

Immunity for the purpose of residency training? What are you talking about? There is no legal immunity for anything. The DACA program was set up (along with the Morton Memos) in order to focus the resources of ICE on undocumented people are that are criminals, terrorists, and/or a threat to the nation/community INSTEAD of people that contribute to their communities (and this nation) in a positive manner.
You think we shouldn't have discretion in the way ICE (or the government for that matter) spends money?

Right, but there is something inherently unethical in making children accountable for their parents' decisions to immigrate - the parents can foresee that, but it still doesn't mean it's the child's fault or something the child should answer to. It's not like an immigrant child can choose not to immigrate.

Also, the argument for immigrant admission mirrors the argument for URM/under-served admissions - such people are more likely to go back and serve their communities. Unlike, say, the large number of you that will match into derm or gen surg and practice in a tertiary care center while entire communities have physician shortages.

While I agree, I don't think immigrants should be held to "lower" standards. Everyone has their own sets of obstacles. Let each application speak for itself individually. I really think it's important to have people that serve their communities--it makes a difference.

It's unethical for illegal immigrants to steal spots from legal US applicants. There were nearly 10,000 applicants for 160 seats at Loyola. I'm sure they could have filled their class several times over with qualified applicants.

Steal spots? How are the stealing? Is Loyola giving them an unfair advantage? From what I understand, Loyola is making DACA approved applicants eligible to apply to their program (based on their Jesuit beliefs). How is it okay for you to mandate what beliefs a religiously-affiliated institution are okay, and which are not?

They have yet to fill any spots with DACA approved applicants. And while there are nearly 10,000 applicants for 160 seats, shouldn't the best students be selected?

I understand where you are coming from, however I think it is foolish to compare this to the URM debate. URMs are tax-paying, law-abiding citizens of the US. This is not a debate regarding affirmative action. There are other threads for that, if you would like. This is a debate over admitting illegal immigrants to one of the most highly regarded and federally funded graduate programs in the US.

No one is saying it's the child's fault. Getting accepted in to medical school is extremely difficult. For many candidates, it is not as simple as graduating college and moving right on to medical school. They have to make themselves more competitive by taking post-bac courses, committing to hundreds of hours of community service, and re-studying for the MCAT. Candidates have to sacrifice to achieve their goal of becoming a physician. This same principle must be applied to immigrants. Their are standards required for admission, and they are not easy to achieve. However, like I've said, there are paths in place to citizenship for immigrants. It is not easy, and it takes a long time... but to qualify for a US medical education, US citizenship is (or at least legal status in the US) 100% necessary.

It's a bit unfair that you're implying that undocumented people don't pay taxes... considering the fact that in 2007 alone, the SS administration had receipts between 120 billion to 240 billion from undocumented residents. I guess that money came from nowhere?

Many state funded programs require applicants to be US citizens or Permanent Residents (making international applicants ineligible to apply), however requiring that all applicants be US citizens at those schools would create a lower class of permanent residents. Furthermore, international students are more likely to practice in the countries of their origin, so it makes sense for state funded schools to not accept them.

However, why are private institutions required to make the same policies? Do you think that people of other countries have nothing to offer? Many of the brightest minds that help the US grow come from different countries. There is no reason why we wouldn't have innovative, smart individuals learning alongside our students.

Now why do you say that DACA approved students don't have to sacrifice the same things? Did Loyola say that DACA approved applicants would be held to different admission standards? Who said immigrants are held to lower standards? If anything, they have many more obstacles than non-immigrants. I completely agree though, they should be held the the SAME standard. Right? Or should immigrants be held to higher standards?

People should follow the laws set for them to become citizens. After they have become naturalized and begin paying taxes, only then should they be allowed to enter our universities and receive our financial aid. It's disturbing to see trends where allowing illegitimate immigrants to be treated with the same regard as Americans is acceptable.

1. People don't receive financial aid if they aren't US citizens or permanent residents.
2. So you're saying that permanent residents should be an underclass to US citizens?
3. Access to education is a privilege? What about the fact that many state-funded programs are funded via property taxes? So you've got people that either buy a home, or rent... either way their money to going to pay for these programs. Its not okay for them to access educational institutions. Even if they pay higher tuition and fees?

Maybe you're saying that is how it should be, not how it is... either way, I'm not sure how being a US citizen is the only way that people should be allow to enter universities.

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[Mt Kilimanjaro]

The majority of undocumented immigrants pay taxes. I would know, I used to be one.
Undocumented immigrants also don't qualify for food stamps, earned income credit on their tax returns, welfare, or Medicaid. We pay in buy take very little out.

Also, It's not as easy as applying and waiting in line. Often there is no line.

http://www.washingtonpost.com/blogs...for-some-undocumented-immigrants-health-care/

http://sanmarinotribune.com/2013/05...-illegal-immigrants-exceeds-54-million-march/

http://www.gao.gov/products/GGD-95-27

Let's not mislead.

They also Go to public school. $$$

 

[487806]

This type of argument neglects the viewpoint that most applicants are likely children of immigrants or people who immigrated at a young-enough age to not be responsible for the decision to engage in that process.

Good move, Loyola. Lowering the achievement gap helps us all; a society with reduced inequality has benefits for everyone - this is a simple principle of sociology and economics.

Immigrants aren't the same as undocumented aliens.

 

[sletten]

This is a major reason why what to do about illegal immigration remains a question mark. US companies employ illegals so that the companies don't have to pay minimum wage, federal and state taxes, healthcare, retirement, etc that they would otherwise have to pay if they employed Americans. So businessmen prefer that they stay illegal, and that they keep coming. On the other hand, a naturalized illegal immigrant will most probably vote Democrat. The borders can be much more secure than they currently are. Why aren't they?

IMO, Loyola's decision to accept applications from illegals seems more about making a political statement than anything else. I doubt they will receive any preference of any sort; there are plenty of applicants on immigrant visas, with green cards etc who get rejected each year. If anything, I foresee maybe one exceptional illegal applicant getting in (if any get in at all) just to back up the statement they are making. If an illegal is given access to state/federal money, I am sure there will be enough lawsuits against Loyola to where Loyola just might offer a full-ride scholarship using their own money to said student just to continue backing their statement.

Further, I believe that at least a few residency programs continue to sponsor the visas of and train foreign applicants. Also, I believe there still exists a path to a green card for foreigners on non-immigrant visas who commit to serving in a underserved area. Perhaps similar pathways might be set up if illegals are allowed into medical schools.

Well I think it's a combination of a few things:

Yes, it's definitely cheaper to employ undocumented workers--it leaves out a lot of benefits as well as liabilities. But at the same time, there are many industries that require low-skill workers, and while these jobs are available to US citizens, the pay/working conditions aren't good enough for them to take/continue the job. For example, the farm industry, many US workers just don't like the conditions, etc while farmers need to make sure their crops are harvested. Many undocumented workers are willing to work longer hours, for less pay, in more stressful conditions.

It's not just our borders, our entire immigration system is idiotic. There needs to be a lot of reform, and I'm sure if any of you have dealt with USCIS/our immigration policies, you would agree as well.

Loyola doesn't have the ability to give access to state/federal money without certain information. Regardless, I'm sure their legal department knows what the deal is... obviously they wouldn't come out with this publicly, if they weren't able to handle the ins-and-outs of letting DACA students attend their school.

That would be an interesting way to make sure DACA graduates serve areas that need it the most. Cool idea, solves two problems.

 

[487806]

My thought: It is very good and makes me proud of the Medical School.

I think everybody deserves a chance to make the best and live a prosperous life. Things like these make me reinforce my commitment for the underserved.

To you Loyola:

Are you guys seriously confused between legal and illegal immigrants? Your reasons for supporting illegal aliens and children to better life is better suited for legal immigrants and their children. Being undocumented restricts you from the benefits of thid country.

When an american illegally settles in mexico, he is likely to be deported. Just like McAfee was deported from Guatemala for illegal residence. We need to grow a bigger backbone.

 

[circulus vitios]

Medical training for free? How is it free? Just because you may disagree with a decision that Loyola took, it shouldn't affect what actually true and what's isn't.

Immunity for the purpose of residency training? What are you talking about? There is no legal immunity for anything. The DACA program was set up (along with the Morton Memos) in order to focus the resources of ICE on undocumented people are that are criminals, terrorists, and/or a threat to the nation/community INSTEAD of people that contribute to their communities (and this nation) in a positive manner.
You think we shouldn't have discretion in the way ICE (or the government for that matter) spends money?

Steal spots? How are the stealing? Is Loyola giving them an unfair advantage? From what I understand, Loyola is making DACA approved applicants eligible to apply to their program (based on their Jesuit beliefs). How is it okay for you to mandate what beliefs a religiously-affiliated institution are okay, and which are not?

They have yet to fill any spots with DACA approved applicants. And while there are nearly 10,000 applicants for 160 seats, shouldn't the best students be selected?

Graduate medical education is largely funded by public money. Their parents did not pay into these taxes. By legal immunity, I'm assuming that they will be given a free pass for training. IMGs require a visa. Presumably these students won't need a visa because they'll be given immunity.

How is it not stealing spots? There are a fixed number of seats at Loyola and a fixed number of seats for post-graduate training. By accepting illegals, Loyola is literally taking away a seat from a legal American citizen or a legal foreign citizen, assuming Loyola accepts international applicants. The "more qualified" line is bull****. Loyola has literally 60 applicants for every seat. They could fill their class several times over with qualified, legal applicants.

 

[Pumpernickel123]

http://www.washingtonpost.com/blogs...for-some-undocumented-immigrants-health-care/

http://sanmarinotribune.com/2013/05...-illegal-immigrants-exceeds-54-million-march/

http://www.gao.gov/products/GGD-95-27

Let's not mislead.

They also Go to public school. $$$

Way to cherry pick certain aspects while ignoring the whole picture. We're supposed to be scientists.

http://www.nytimes.com/2013/02/17/m...ually-hurt-the-us-economy.html?pagewanted=all

We pay into the system ( including social security which we don't qualify for) but in return we only get emergency health care and public schools. Pretty good deal for the average American. As for DACA kids, they are young and for the most part healthy. I doubt it's them visiting the emergency rooms.

As for public schools, my "failing" public schools produced me who is a future doctor. Pretty good investment that will be paid back.

I get the feeling a lot of opposition on this board stems for a fear of competition. Relax, most of us are too poor to afford to even entertain this idea of going to med school while undocumented. If you lose a spot to a kid who is pretty much living in poverty except without the benefits of food stamps and welfare, yet has a higher GPA and mcat than you, you really have no one to blame but yourself.

 

[sletten]

http://www.washingtonpost.com/blogs...for-some-undocumented-immigrants-health-care/

http://sanmarinotribune.com/2013/05...-illegal-immigrants-exceeds-54-million-march/

http://www.gao.gov/products/GGD-95-27

Let's not mislead.

They also Go to public school. $$$

Well many "illegal immigrants" cannot buy health insurance, so their access to healthcare is much more different than we imagine. And while there is an emergency medicaid program, how do we know which monies are allocated to pay for the costs of legal residents vs undocumented? As a physician, what do you do when you see someone dying? Check to see if they have legal status and treat the lives of those only? Are their lives less valuable? Or let's say doctors/hospitals didn't get reimbursed for those patients, would you just not offer them care?

As far the the welfare costs go, is that money for the illegal immigrants or for the US citizen child? I may have misinterpreted it, but it seems that the money is there to support the US citizen child, which is not the same thing you're trying to prove.

Also public schools (elementary, middle, hs, etc) are funded from property taxes. If people are living here undocumented, then they've still got to have some sort of housing. At the end of the day, the money is contributed to property tax receipts which help to run public schools, police departments, etc. Unfair of you to imply that they take more than give.

 

[487806]

Graduate medical education is largely funded by public money. Their parents did not pay into these taxes. By legal immunity, I'm assuming that they will be given a free pass for training. IMGs require a visa. Presumably these students won't need a visa because they'll be given immunity.

How is it not stealing spots? There are a fixed number of seats at Loyola and a fixed number of seats for post-graduate training.

Well said. This support for undocumented aliens is disappointing.

1. If you're an illegal from Mexico, you are granted amnesty, and idiot senators will speak in Spanish in support of amnesty. You also get free welfare benefits, free healthcare and you don't have to pay taxes or have voter IDs.
2. If you're an illegal from a non-Latin American country, you are deported until you come back legally.

 

[sletten]

I get the feeling on this board stems for a fear of competition. Relax, most of us are too poor to afford to even entertain this idea of going to med school while undocumented.

That's the feeling I'm getting as well. Most undocumented students are too poor to afford to get a bachelor's degree, let alone a medical degree. The application process alone 270 for MCAT, 160 for AMCAS, 350 for 10 additional schools, 900 for secondaries comes around to a sizable amount. This isn't even including the costs of traveling and attending interviews.

 

[sletten]

Well said. This support for undocumented aliens is disappointing.

1. If you're an illegal from Mexico, you are granted amnesty, and idiot senators will speak in Spanish in support of amnesty. You also get free welfare benefits, free healthcare and you don't have to pay taxes or have voter IDs.
2. If you're an illegal from a non-Latin American country, you are deported until you come back legally.

1. That's false.
2. That's false.

Spewing most of the rhetoric from the far right, xenophobic mindset, really isn't helping your argument. No one has granted anyone amnesty. DACA is a temporary status. You don't qualify for welfare benefits, you don't get free healthcare, and you DO pays taxes. Voter IDs? Only US citizens can vote in national elections, so I don't know why this is even an issue.

Students from non-Latin American countries can still qualify for DACA. However, you are implying that people from Mexico don't get deported, that's completely false.

 

[straps]

It's a bit unfair that you're implying that undocumented people don't pay taxes... considering the fact that in 2007 alone, the SS administration had receipts between 120 billion to 240 billion from undocumented residents. I guess that money came from nowhere?

Many state funded programs require applicants to be US citizens or Permanent Residents (making international applicants ineligible to apply), however requiring that all applicants be US citizens at those schools would create a lower class of permanent residents. Furthermore, international students are more likely to practice in the countries of their origin, so it makes sense for state funded schools to not accept them.

However, why are private institutions required to make the same policies? Do you think that people of other countries have nothing to offer? Many of the brightest minds that help the US grow come from different countries. There is no reason why we wouldn't have innovative, smart individuals learning alongside our students.

Now why do you say that DACA approved students don't have to sacrifice the same things? Did Loyola say that DACA approved applicants would be held to different admission standards? Who said immigrants are held to lower standards? If anything, they have many more obstacles than non-immigrants. I completely agree though, they should be held the the SAME standard. Right? Or should immigrants be held to higher standards?

The US is a melting pot - we were built on the grounds of diversity. In no way have I ever felt or implied that people from other countries have nothing to offer. The US was also built as a society of law and order. As a country, we lose credibility when no penalty is assessed when laws are broken. Entering the US without the proper documentation is illegal. Obviously there has been a shift in politics and illegal immigrants are being granted certain rights. However, I think you have forgotten that attending medical school is a privilege, not a right.

You are using the term immigrant very loosely. There is a big difference between an immigrant and an illegal immigrant when it comes to the privileges one should be granted in the US.

 

[Pumpernickel123]

Well said. This support for undocumented aliens is disappointing.
.

Nice to know My future colleagues think so little of me. I'm sorry I came here when I was 2 years old. I should have known better.

Other than that one incidence when I was a toddler, I can say I'm extremely law abiding.

Never smoked pot, got a speeding or parking ticket, never downloaded anything I shouldn't have. I'm pretty strict when it comes to rules but even I realize that a baby shouldn't be held accountable for something they had no control over.


You will have undocumented patients, let's hope you show more compassion towards the than you do me.

 

[sletten]

Graduate medical education is largely funded by public money. Their parents did not pay into these taxes. By legal immunity, I'm assuming that they will be given a free pass for training. IMGs require a visa. Presumably these students won't need a visa because they'll be given immunity.

How is it not stealing spots? There are a fixed number of seats at Loyola and a fixed number of seats for post-graduate training. By accepting illegals, Loyola is literally taking away a seat from a legal American citizen or a legal foreign citizen, assuming Loyola accepts international applicants. The "more qualified" line is bull****. Loyola has literally 60 applicants for every seat. They could fill their class several times over with qualified, legal applicants.

I'm not sure what you mean by immunity. The DACA status is active for two years (after which it can be renewed). Even if they didn't have a residency, it wouldn't change anything. And while they are working, they're paying income taxes (as well as sales tax). While some illegal immigrants may not have paid taxes, some have... So what if we made GME open to only those DACA kids whose parents paid taxes? What about the kids who are out of legal status, but their parents are (this does happen). Some IMGs are US citizens.

Stealing spots implies that they were improperly received. Why cannot Loyola (a private institution) decide who attends their school and who doesn't? Loyola does not accept international applicants (I think). How is more qualified line bull? I can understand where you're coming from for the GME, but not MD spots at Loyola.

 

[sletten]

The US is a melting pot - we were built on the grounds of diversity. In no way have I ever felt or implied that people from other countries have nothing to offer. The US was also built as a society of law and order. As a country, we lose credibility when no penalty is assessed when laws are broken. Entering the US without the proper documentation is illegal. Obviously there has been a shift in politics and illegal immigrants are being granted certain rights. However, I think you have forgotten that attending medical school is a privilege, not a right.

You are using the term immigrant very loosely. There is a big difference between an immigrant and an illegal immigrant when it comes to the privileges one should be granted in the US.

Not my intention to use the term immigrant loosely.. you stated: "This same principle must be applied to immigrants." I imagine you were referring to illegal immigrants, however you didn't specify, and I didn't want to assume. Obviously there is a big difference between illegal and legal immigrants.

I agree, there should be penalties assessed for laws that are broken. My statement regarding education was education in general, not specifically medical education. And while I agree that medical school is not a "right," I'm not quite sure how you define privilege. It's certainly a complex issue. At the same time, doesn't Loyola have a right to determine who they can or cannot accept?

 

[487806]

Nice to know My future colleges think so little of me. I'm sorry I came here when I was 2 years old. I should have known better.

Other than that one incidence when I was a toddler, I can say I'm extremely law abiding.

Never smoked pot, got a speeding or parking ticket, never downloaded anything I shouldn't have. I'm pretty strict when it comes to rules but even I realize that a baby shouldn't be held accountable for something they had no control over.


You will have undocumented patients, let's hope you show more compassion towards the than you do me.

Again, this isn't your fault, but the fault of your parents and other relatives for failing to arrive here in a legal manner, and continue to do so for this long.

Don't worry what will happen in the future.

 

[487806]

1. That's false.
2. That's false.

Spewing most of the rhetoric from the far right, xenophobic mindset, really isn't helping your argument. No one has granted anyone amnesty. DACA is a temporary status. You don't qualify for welfare benefits, you don't get free healthcare, and you DO pays taxes. Voter IDs? Only US citizens can vote in national elections, so I don't know why this is even an issue.

Students from non-Latin American countries can still qualify for DACA. However, you are implying that people from Mexico don't get deported, that's completely false.

That's very comforting to hear. I was hoping to be proven wrong, and i'm glad I was wrong. Thanks.

 

[Pumpernickel123]

Again, this isn't your fault, but the fault of your parents and other relatives for failing to arrive here in a legal manner, and continue to do so for this long.

Don't worry what will happen in the future.

It's not my fault but you still want me to face the punishment? I'm not that different from you, how would you feel if you worked your hard, played by the rules, and got a stellar GPA and MCAT and then someone said you couldn't even apply.

Most of them come from less than ideal backgrounds, I doubt many will stand any real chance of getting in anyways.

They're not asking for special treatment, just a chance to apply and get in on their own merits. They haven't done anything wrong and it is selfish to hold down those who had less than you because you're scared they'll do better than you.

 

[Soulstice]

I understand where you are coming from, however I think it is foolish to compare this to the URM debate. URMs are tax-paying, law-abiding citizens of the US. This is not a debate regarding affirmative action. There are other threads for that, if you would like. This is a debate over admitting illegal immigrants to one of the most highly regarded and federally funded graduate programs in the US.

No one is saying it's the child's fault. Getting accepted in to medical school is extremely difficult. For many candidates, it is not as simple as graduating college and moving right on to medical school. They have to make themselves more competitive by taking post-bac courses, committing to hundreds of hours of community service, and re-studying for the MCAT. Candidates have to sacrifice to achieve their goal of becoming a physician. This same principle must be applied to immigrants. Their are standards required for admission, and they are not easy to achieve. However, like I've said, there are paths in place to citizenship for immigrants. It is not easy, and it takes a long time... but to qualify for a US medical education, US citizenship is (or at least legal status in the US) 100% necessary.

Who said the standards for illegal immigrants are being lowered? Loyola is simply considering their applications, not giving them an express ticket in ..

 

[Benedictus123]

I literally don't care at all. In fact, I'd support them if they ONLY took illegal immigrants, just to get a rise out of half you people.

 

[circulus vitios]

It's not my fault but you still want me to face the punishment? I'm not that different from you, how would you feel if you worked your hard, played by the rules, and got a stellar GPA and MCAT and then someone said you couldn't even apply.

Most of them come from less than ideal backgrounds, I doubt many will stand any real chance of getting in anyways.

They're not asking for special treatment, just a chance to apply and get in on their own merits. They haven't done anything wrong and it is selfish to hold down those who had less than you because you're scared they'll do better than you.

Protecting domestic interests is not selfishness. You want in then you should play by the rules. Millions of others have played by the rules and it's ridiculous to think that you can do your own thing just because you've integrated into American culture.

 

[Mt Kilimanjaro]

It's not my fault but you still want me to face the punishment? I'm not that different from you, how would you feel if you worked your hard, played by the rules, and got a stellar GPA and MCAT and then someone said you couldn't even apply.

Most of them come from less than ideal backgrounds, I doubt many will stand any real chance of getting in anyways.

They're not asking for special treatment, just a chance to apply and get in on their own merits. They haven't done anything wrong and it is selfish to hold down those who had less than you because you're scared they'll do better than you.

That's the breaks kid. My parents also broke the law and made bad choices in the past. One of those poor choices was not going to college. As a result, my options were/are limited compared to, say, a doctor's kid. Such is life.

 

[Soulstice]

Protecting domestic interests is not selfishness. You want in then you should play by the rules. Millions of others have played by the rules and it's ridiculous to think that you can do your own thing just because you've integrated into American culture.

You could argue very easily that admitting illegal immigrants to serve illegal immigrant communities is serving domestic interests (let's face it, illegals often live in concentrations in certain neighborhoods that are often poor, minority-heavy, and medically under served).

 

[dahassa]

Protecting domestic interests is not selfishness. You want in then you should play by the rules. Millions of others have played by the rules and it's ridiculous to think that you can do your own thing just because you've integrated into American culture.

I am a little confused by your definition of "fairness." While I might not agree, I understand why you would oppose adult illegal immigrants. But what about DREAMers who come illegally with their parents as 1 or 2 year olds? What makes them any less American than you or me? They identify as Americans, have worked as hard (if not harder) than most Americans. Many dont know their parent's native language, have studied American history in school, ect. They are just as American as anyone else. The DREAM act allows these kids to become educated and strive for something. You don't punish a child for the sins of its father. That is the definition of cruelty and unfairness. This is an issue about human decency.

If DREAMers work hard, get a good GPA//MCAT, and so on they deserve to compete.

 

[sletten]

You could argue very easily that admitting illegal immigrants to serve illegal immigrant communities is serving domestic interests (let's face it, illegals often live in concentrations in certain neighborhoods that are often poor, minority-heavy, and medically under served).

You could also argue that illegal immigrants provide cheap labor (ie in the agricultural industry) which provides US residents with cheaper food (which would be serving domestic interests). Just sayin'

 

[circulus vitios]

You could argue very easily that admitting illegal immigrants to serve illegal immigrant communities is serving domestic interests (let's face it, illegals often live in concentrations in certain neighborhoods that are often poor, minority-heavy, and medically under served).

I really doubt that illegals who get into a $200k/year+ profession are heading back into these areas.

 

[Pumpernickel123]

That's the breaks kid. My parents also broke the law and made bad choices in the past. One of those poor choices was not going to college. As a result, my options were/are limited compared to, say, a doctor's kid. Such is life.

You could still apply and get in if you worked hard enough. No one closed closed the doors you. No one is saying you can't even apply.

DREAMers don't tend to be whiners. They don't care that their parents never went to college or in some cases finished primary school or that they worked fast food through college and it took the, 8'years to graduate because sometimes they just didn't have then money for tuition.

They are not looking for someone to acknowledge their hardships or handouts. They just want a chance to apply and if their mcat and GPA are competitive, have a shot at attending.

 

[sletten]

I really doubt that illegals who get into a $200k/year+ profession are heading back into these areas.

Your skepticism is a weak argument against that. The thing is, they haven't gotten into the profession.. how can you know the outcome? Many schools have missions to provide care in underserved areas, do they really doubt that their students (who get into a 200k/year profession) won't provide such care?

 

[straps]

Your skepticism is a weak argument against that. The thing is, they haven't gotten into the profession.. how can you know the outcome? Many schools have missions to provide care in underserved areas, do they really doubt that their students (who get into a 200k/year profession) won't provide such care?

We don't all live in a land of lollipops and rainbows.

 

[circulus vitios]

Your skepticism is a weak argument against that. The thing is, they haven't gotten into the profession.. how can you know the outcome? Many schools have missions to provide care in underserved areas, do they really doubt that their students (who get into a 200k/year profession) won't provide such care?

And these same schools are the first to brag about matching competitive specialties and top-ranking IM residencies. Funny how these schools have "embraced" primary care and medically undeserved areas for a decade or more, yet we're still hearing about it.

 

[487806]

It's not my fault but you still want me to face the punishment? I'm not that different from you, how would you feel if you worked your hard, played by the rules, and got a stellar GPA and MCAT and then someone said you couldn't even apply.

Most of them come from less than ideal backgrounds, I doubt many will stand any real chance of getting in anyways.

They're not asking for special treatment, just a chance to apply and get in on their own merits. They haven't done anything wrong and it is selfish to hold down those who had less than you because you're scared they'll do better than you.

Again, i'm not criticizing or subjecting you to any punishment. This is the fault of your parenrs for knowingly placing you in such a situation. and I have no reason to fear illegals. Just enter the US legally. Please explain to me why it is so difficult for your family to be legal immigrants, yet you still have the opportunity to do well in college etc. i'm actually lost by this paradox. If you're fortunate enough to get good college education, why are your parents avoiding to apply legally? Why is your family avoiding the law and punishing you for it?

 

[osprey099]

I think just because Loyola says they accept undocumented aliens doesn't mean they will actually do it. Like someone else said, this is probably no more than just a political statement to fall in line with their Jesuit beliefs.

 

[MelonMan]

Dont even care. If the candidates getting accepted to loyola are qualified, good for them.

 

[Pumpernickel123]

Again, i'm not criticizing or subjecting you to any punishment. This is the fault of your parenrs for knowingly placing you in such a situation. and I have no reason to fear illegals. Just enter the US legally. Please explain to me why it is so difficult for your family to be legal immigrants, yet you still have the opportunity to do well in college etc. i'm actually lost by this paradox. If you're fortunate enough to get good college education, why are your parents avoiding to apply legally? Why is your family avoiding the law and punishing you for it?

My family actually legalized themselves some time ago. They took the first chance they could get. Not everyone gets these chances. It's not as simple as just filling out a form and bam you're legal.

Immigration laws are very complex. Often there is no way to legalize yourself or come legally. The immigration system is a mess. It's not black and white. Our formergovernor Arnold Swatnerggerar is one illegal Immigrant who calls himself legal. He worked In the country without permission, that automatically voided his visa but he hid it well enough that it didn't come out until he was a citizen. It annoys me that he denies his illegal past. He too was an illegal immigrant.

They system is very complex and it isn't very difficult to accidentally end up on the wrong side of the law.

I've wasted enough time on this. Wish you all the best of luck getting I to med school. Arguing on this forum or worrying about undocumented immigrants getting in is wasted energy that could be spent on your app.

 

[sletten]

Dont even care. If the candidates getting accepted to loyola are qualified, good for them.

Agreed.

 

[PreMedRookie]

To whoever said that you have to be a US citizen to vote. That is not true. All you need is a voter ID.

http://www.ijreview.com/2013/06/599...hat-illegal-aliens-can-vote-in-u-s-elections/

While the guy in the video lacks taste and is a rude, it is very interesting

 

[sletten]

To whoever said that you have to be a US citizen to vote. That is not true. All you need is a voter ID.

http://www.ijreview.com/2013/06/599...hat-illegal-aliens-can-vote-in-u-s-elections/

While the guy in the video lacks taste and is a rude, it is very interesting

Well looks like you're using a biased sources, but regardless.. I think this article title is misleading. The Supreme Court struck down an Arizona law requiring that you show proof of US citizenship. That is an argument on it's own. It doesn't not give illegal aliens the right to vote.

I could use your credit card with a fake ID, it doesn't mean it's legal. Fraud has repercussions, even in immigration.

Edit: Here is the author's twitter: https://twitter.com/kylenbecker

 

[PreMedRookie]

In places that don't required ID to vote, all you have to do is check a box that says you are a citizen and the sign the bottom of the form to "prove" that you are telling the truth. Meaning that illegal immigrants can and DO vote.

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/howar...from-illegal-immigrants-voting_b_1418523.html
Warning: I didn't read the whole article

 

[487806]

Well looks like you're using a biased sources, but regardless.. I think this article title is misleading. The Supreme Court struck down an Arizona law requiring that you show proof of US citizenship. That is an argument on it's own. It doesn't not give illegal aliens the right to vote.

I could use your credit card with a fake ID, it doesn't mean it's legal. Fraud has repercussions, even in immigration.

Edit: Here is the author's twitter: https://twitter.com/kylenbecker

Lol. I love judicial activism.

 

[PreMedRookie]

Haha thank you for showing me that. I didn't think the article was tastefully done at all but I found the video interesting.

 

[sletten]

In places that don't required ID to vote, all you have to do is check a box that says you are a citizen and the sign the bottom of the form to "prove" that you are telling the truth. Meaning that illegal immigrants can and DO vote.

You're implying that they have a legal means to obtain a voter ID. Hypothetically, let's say you have a gun. That means you can kill people. So you do kill people? That's the argument you're making.

I'm sure a few illegal immigrants have violated voter laws, and that's why we're even discussing the issue. That signifies a problem with our voting system. We clearly need to figure out a way to set up a unified form of identification (for voting purposes) without making voting difficult for US citizens. This can prove to be difficult as many Americans are against a national ID card.

Saying that you're a citizen when you're not can disqualify you from every gaining permanent residence. Breaking laws have consequences. Other people may also be improperly voting... http://www.charlotteobserver.com/2012/09/02/3497857/group-says-it-found-30000-dead.html

edit: I mean I agree with the notion that it occurs (illegally) and we need a good way to solve the problem.

 

[PreMedRookie]

You're implying that they have a legal means to obtain a voter ID. Hypothetically, let's say you have a gun. That means you can kill people. So you do kill people? That's the argument you're making.

I'm sure a few illegal immigrants have violated voter laws, and that's why we're even discussing the issue. That signifies a problem with our voting system. We clearly need to figure out a way to set up a unified form of identification (for voting purposes) without making voting difficult for US citizens. This can prove to be difficult as many Americans are against a national ID card.

Saying that you're a citizen when you're not can disqualify you from every gaining permanent residence. Breaking laws have consequences. Other people may also be improperly voting... http://www.charlotteobserver.com/2012/09/02/3497857/group-says-it-found-30000-dead.html

They don't even need a voter ID

However, we are getting very off topic here. Back to Loyola....

 

[rolliespring]

Indeed it's sad for children born to these illegal aliens, who are parasites of our welfare system. But Obama and Democrats want more votes, while Republicans want cheap labor. Politicians are America's manure.

Agreed.

 

[Soulstice]

You could also argue that illegal immigrants provide cheap labor (ie in the agricultural industry) which provides US residents with cheaper food (which would be serving domestic interests). Just sayin'

It does - the US economy is built on a base of labor from illegal immigrants. The argument that illegal immigrants steal jobs is only partially valid; they often fill jobs Americans don't want.

 

[sletten]

They don't even need a voter ID

However, we are getting very off topic here. Back to Loyola....

Well I meant that for your initial statement: "You only need a voter ID."

Back to the topic: Thoughts on Loyola accepting undocumented immigrants?

Well technically they're documented once they're approved for DACA. It doesn't really matter honestly... it gives a handful of kids a shot at getting accepted. By no means a game changer. More good than bad can come from this, right?

 

[Soulstice]

I really doubt that illegals who get into a $200k/year+ profession are heading back into these areas.

The idea that minority doctors are more likely to serve minority communities - and that minority patients prefer & trust more in minority doctors .. These aren't just speculations but peer-reviewed validations of observed data.

 

[circulus vitios]

The idea that minority doctors are more likely to serve minority communities - and that minority patients prefer & trust more in minority doctors .. These aren't just speculations but peer-reviewed validations of observed data.

Yes, and the studies I've seen vaguely mention that some minority physicians return to their home communities. I've never seen figures on what percent of minority physicians do this, nor have I seen a study that mentions practice environments. There's a big difference between practicing FM at a low-income clinic in a run-down part of Chicago or Los Angeles, and practicing boutique FM or a specialty at a private practice clinic in the nice parts of town.

 

[Soulstice]

Yes, and the studies I've seen vaguely mention that some minority physicians return to their home communities. I've never seen figures on what percent of minority physicians do this, nor have I seen a study that mentions practice environments. There's a big difference between practicing FM at a low-income clinic in a run-down part of Chicago or Los Angeles, and practicing boutique FM or a specialty at a private practice clinic in the nice parts of town.

The question shouldn't be what percent of minority physicians do so but rather whether minority physicians are more likely to serve those communities than non-minority physicians ... And on the latter point the data are convincing.

 

[pachewisc]

As of November 2012, 12 states have their own versions of the DREAM Act, which deal with tuition prices and financial aid for state universities. These states are Texas, California, Illinois, Utah, Nebraska, Kansas, New Mexico, New York, Washington, Wisconsin, Massachusetts, and Maryland.

If you're mad at Loyola for accepting a legislative ruling, that's idiotic. That's like getting pissed at the first college for accepting and acting on Affirmative Action (I know they're different. It's an analogy.). Loyola is acting on legislation. You're all making yourselves look as foolish as George Wallace standing up against the Little Rock Nine.

If you're mad at the DREAM Act or the requirements for DACA, as it sounds most of you are, then go make pleas to your state senators and representatives. It's in their hands. If you don't like the Act, the only way to stop schools from adopting it is to stop the Act itself.

 

[Mr Avante]

Are you guys seriously confused between legal and illegal immigrants? Your reasons for supporting illegal aliens and children to better life is better suited for legal immigrants and their children. Being undocumented restricts you from the benefits of thid country.

When an american illegally settles in mexico, he is likely to be deported. Just like McAfee was deported from Guatemala for illegal residence. We need to grow a bigger backbone.

I know the difference between an immigrant and an undocumented immigrant. But I also know the similarities which outweigh the things that set them apart.

When an american settles in Mexico he is likely to be deported? Sir, there is no border patrol, ice agents, or homeland department in Mexico. They won't raid your house and drag you out. Even more, there is no VISA for tourists. They just simply don't care about your status. Everyone is welcomed and accepted.
SOURCES: I lived there, studied there, worked there. Never got deported or sent to a Mexican Border Security detention facility.

1. That's false.
2. That's false.

Spewing most of the rhetoric from the far right, xenophobic mindset, really isn't helping your argument. No one has granted anyone amnesty. DACA is a temporary status. You don't qualify for welfare benefits, you don't get free healthcare, and you DO pays taxes. Voter IDs? Only US citizens can vote in national elections, so I don't know why this is even an issue.

Students from non-Latin American countries can still qualify for DACA. However, you are implying that people from Mexico don't get deported, that's completely false.

Again, this isn't your fault, but the fault of your parents and other relatives for failing to arrive here in a legal manner, and continue to do so for this long.

Tell me once again how is it a problem to seek autonomy and pursue happiness.

Who said the standards for illegal immigrants are being lowered? Loyola is simply considering their applications, not giving them an express ticket in ..

I really doubt that illegals who get into a $200k/year+ profession are heading back into these areas.

They understand the struggle. Trust me, they will
Besides, it isn't like any of us are willing to serve in those communities. So, stop the hypocrisy.

To whoever said that you have to be a US citizen to vote. That is not true. All you need is a voter ID.

Sir, remind me once again how is it possible to get a voter ID? Last time I checked, the US citizen box was on the form.
If you are still neglecting the facts, well, an statement follows describing how you won't get an ID if you checked the No option of the box.

Si se puede!

SOURCES: I have worked closely with the immigration system in place. Trust me, 90% of you have no idea of its workings.