Thoughts on Non-Medical Research and Non-publishable Medical Research

[GMDMD]

Hello everyone, I'm an MSII and I was wondering if I could get people's opinions on some work I'm doing and have done in the past, and how they look to residency programs. I'm doing pretty well in school and I thought I was in good shape for ENT until I started reading this forum today and realized how obscenely overqualified everyone is trying to get into this field.

I was a computer science major originally and worked for 4 years as a software engineer for a small aerospace research company. I was 4th author for a paper in a pretty distinguished journal in the field, and 2nd, 2nd, and 3rd author for 3 other papers submitted and presented at various conferences. I'm probably most proud of the work I did as a 2nd author for a non-published paper, because the work I did is being used by NASA and my old company, and a lot of the ideas I developed are getting worked into bigger programs.

My question is, do people in the medical field care? I know when I look at match statistics for papers published/abstracts and research projects, they often include basic science work done during undergrad... Would my sort of past research stack up just as favorably?

...

Secondly, I've been pretty actively involved in a medical software project brainstormed by myself (the software muscle) and a PGY2 neurosurgery resident (the clinical muscle). We started it more than 2 years ago, back when I was applying to med school and I've since put in a huge number of hours in software development. The problem is we're both extremely busy (him residency, me w/ step1 and 3rd year on the horizon) and I don't know what will come out of it. We both strongly believe it could turn into something really cool, but I feel as though I have to accept the reality that with my time committments plus the general nature of startups, nothing successful will likely come out of it.

As I read about how ENT places a greater emphasis on academic research than the other competitive surgical residencies, I'm concerned about where I should spend the free time I anticipate having during the next two years. My initial plan was to dive back into this project during easy 3rd year rotations and during 4th year.

But now I'm starting to worry that a much better investment of my time might be to schmooze with the residents and faculty at my ENT department to get in on some ENT-focused publications. To be honest I feel like begging for Nth-author table scraps on some case reports or reviews is pretty lame, but I'm concerned that because of how competitive the field is, many may look at the bottom line in terms of hard countable research publications and abstracts.

I can see our project having the potential for many research applications and publications a couple of years down the road after some significant development (by myself or by others if we find funding). But probably nothing concrete before applying for residency. I'm reluctant to put a big vision project on hold for the sake of building connections and CV-padding, but I also want to match ENT in a bad way.

Any advice or thoughts on how such projects would be viewed by most programs?

Thanks!

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[HamOnWholeWheat]

All that finishing your software project will do is demonstrate that you're good at software projects; something you've already done with your previous work experience and publications. IMO you're sitting pretty for ENT, case reports or not. You've proven you're a smart capable person, you've put in the time to get pubs somewhere, all you have to do now is schmooze with the ENT faculty at your school and see what happens. Unless you can somehow finish that software project, bring it to market, and become hugely famous before interviews, I'd drop the project right now and start focusing on some more high yield stuff.

HamOn

 

[resxn]

I think your history of research is great. I wouldn't worry that it was non-medical. What the programs are looking at is how motivated/sophisticated the applicant is, not what new information your bringing to the field--you're not supposed to have done that yet, that's why you're applying.

As for me, if I saw your research come across my table in an application, I would want to interview you. Far more interesting things to talk about than the standard ENT applicant fare, so I think you're fine in that realm.

As for what to do now, I think that really depends on how much you really want to finish your project. You've invested a lot of time to just chuck it. I'm not sure what you would do in ENT that would take away time to work on it other than more ENT research. With all your publications already, I think it's totally reasonable to tack your name on some throwaway paper as nth author and finish your project. You do need to schmooze, but don't be a pain in the butt. If the residents think you're annoying, you'll get hurt big time. Come to conferences/grand rounds, ask if you can go on rounds with residents if you get the chance during a slow rotation. Stuff like that.

I think you'll do well as long as you do well on Step I.

 

[GMDMD]

Thanks all, I really appreciate your thoughts. I've read through a lot of threads in this forum and you guys give really great advice.

It's comforting to know that research work done in other fields is still valued. In addition to my project I did some ENT research over the summer which I'm still working on. Not sure yet on the liklihood of publications from that work. I just feel pressured to get in on additional projects after reading up on ent match statistics of those with multiple (>5) publications.

Regarding my project, it's definitely not something I can bring to market within the next couple of years. We've talked to some lawyers about getting funding as a nonprofit, and we also have some private investor interest. In any case, the 'plan' was to work my butt off getting development up to a sustainable state where we could get fulltime developers working on it. At that point I would serve more of a director role plus working on the clinical aspects.

I guess my biggest priority right now is to kill myself over the next 6 months to get that 240+ step 1 score. Darn, and I was just starting to really enjoy 2nd year..

As far as schmoozing, to be honest, it's never really been one of my strong points. I'm a super laid back guy around my classmates but I've always been paranoid about "bothering" busy faculty. I've read here that we should meet with the chair of our ENT department- how does one go about doing that? Just email the guy out of the blue and say "hey, I'm interested in otolaryngology, can we talk?" (and discuss what?)

I'll definitely start off by attending grand rounds weekly so that they'll start to recognize my face.

Thanks again for your opinions.

 

[resxn]

To get to know the chair, call the dept secretary, tell her you're a student who wants to be an ENT and wanted to know if there was a chance you could meet with the chairman. In that meeting just briefly introduce yourself, your history, and ask him/her if he/she has any recommendations for you. I'd also ask (not because it's necessary, but because you'll show your interest) if it's ok to come to grand rounds and conferences even if you're not on rotation. Simple as that.

 

[HighPriest]

Just writing in support of most of what's been said here. I had about 4 years worth or research in a non-medical field, and I got plenty of interviews. All of the programs I've interviewed at so far have looked favorably on my work. One of their primary comments was that it was important to have an understanding of how to conduct research in an organized, analytical fashion, to understand where the funding comes from, and to understand how to apply for funding and how to write a paper. It was less important what the research actually entailed. of course, it's nice to have research IN ENT, but I'm not sure how much perspective a lot of people get when they're doing little more than shuffling patient charts for 6 months. It's kind of a wash-out in many cases, at least in my personal opinion.

From everything I've been told and have experienced: Step scores, clerkship grades, and good letters of rec are more important, by far, in obtaining interviews. Of course, most everyone on the trail has these things, so anything that sets you apart is a good thing. Keep in mind that choosing interviewees essentially has three steps: 1 - pick a board score cutoff and a couple of other (often arbitrary) stats (like AOA or research) and eliminate everyone else. 2 - hand out about 30 applications to each faculty member. 3 - each fac member picks a few people based upon what catches their attention because by that point most of the applicants look the same.

Some places may indeed not look at your application if you don't have ENT research, but a lot of them will notice that you have a very well rounded application with a lot of outside experience, and they'll view that as a positive. That has been my experience, at least.