Those in or interested in the TMS (training in a medical specialty) program should be aware of a new major change. For every year drilling in the TMS program, you WILL incur a year obligation to drill in the active reserves after residency. This is a major change from the previous policy in which no obligation was incurred in this program.
TMS Program - major change!
- Thread starter thewza
- Start date
He's absolutely correct.
As of 1 March, 2011 there is a change. You can not transfer to the IRR after residency, you have to complete 3 years in the Reserves (1 weekend a month/2 weeks a year). Then you can transfer into the Inactive Ready Reserves.
You get paid $500-600 every month even though you only actually attend 2 weekends each year. The others are accounted for by what you're already doing in your residency.
You could be recalled during your IRR time, but it has never happened in the 200+ years of the Navy. It's a popular theme with the Army, but has never happened in the Navy.
Option 2:
If you know you want the pride of service and you want the added experience of Navy medicine, then there is the Stipend and Loan Repayment option. You give the Navy 2 years Reserve time for every year you receive this but you get $2060 per month Stipend AND you get $50,000 loan repayment. Receive it 2 years, give 4. Receive it 3, give 6.
We should look at it as a chance to serve our country, even if only part time for just a few years. But you can also look at it as 3 years of residency equals $74,160 in pay plus $50,000 loan repayment and you serve part-time for 6 years (still making about $10,000 each year).
Then add the Post 9/11 GI Bill that you'll be entitled to. 100% tuition paid plus living expenses that you can use yourself or transfer to your spouse/children.
Add the $50 month Medical Insurance option you have as a reservist (also during your residency).
Add the travel, experiences, and friendships you gain along the way.
Presidents who served:
John F. Kennedy (1961-63)
Lyndon B. Johnson (1963-69)
Richard M. Nixon (1969-74)
Gerald R. Ford (1974-77)
Jimmy Carter (1977-81)
George Bush (1989-93)
"Any man who may be asked in this century what he did to make his life worthwhile, I think can respond with a good deal of pride and satisfaction, 'I served in the United States Navy,'" wrote President John F. Kennedy in August 1963.
As you can tell, I'm serving and proud to be in the Navy!
As of 1 March, 2011 there is a change. You can not transfer to the IRR after residency, you have to complete 3 years in the Reserves (1 weekend a month/2 weeks a year). Then you can transfer into the Inactive Ready Reserves.
You get paid $500-600 every month even though you only actually attend 2 weekends each year. The others are accounted for by what you're already doing in your residency.
You could be recalled during your IRR time, but it has never happened in the 200+ years of the Navy. It's a popular theme with the Army, but has never happened in the Navy.
Option 2:
If you know you want the pride of service and you want the added experience of Navy medicine, then there is the Stipend and Loan Repayment option. You give the Navy 2 years Reserve time for every year you receive this but you get $2060 per month Stipend AND you get $50,000 loan repayment. Receive it 2 years, give 4. Receive it 3, give 6.
We should look at it as a chance to serve our country, even if only part time for just a few years. But you can also look at it as 3 years of residency equals $74,160 in pay plus $50,000 loan repayment and you serve part-time for 6 years (still making about $10,000 each year).
Then add the Post 9/11 GI Bill that you'll be entitled to. 100% tuition paid plus living expenses that you can use yourself or transfer to your spouse/children.
Add the $50 month Medical Insurance option you have as a reservist (also during your residency).
Add the travel, experiences, and friendships you gain along the way.
Presidents who served:
John F. Kennedy (1961-63)
Lyndon B. Johnson (1963-69)
Richard M. Nixon (1969-74)
Gerald R. Ford (1974-77)
Jimmy Carter (1977-81)
George Bush (1989-93)
"Any man who may be asked in this century what he did to make his life worthwhile, I think can respond with a good deal of pride and satisfaction, 'I served in the United States Navy,'" wrote President John F. Kennedy in August 1963.
As you can tell, I'm serving and proud to be in the Navy!
- Joined
- Sep 23, 2002
- Messages
- 556
- Reaction score
- 1
Sounds pretty accurate. I'm currently applying for the TMS program and was told that I would get a monthly stipend of 2000 (HPSP stipend) + Drill pay (around 600). You would only have to drill 2x a year during residency and you will owe two years for every year they pay during residency so for me it would be 6 years.
- Joined
- Jan 24, 2008
- Messages
- 198
- Reaction score
- 21
so this is available for those in residency only? I'm currently a commissioned officer in the Navy reserves and love the reserve lifestyle. starting med school in the fall and was thinking:
instead of doing the HPSP scholarship, if i chose to take my own loans and then join this after school would it be a good option?
would I need to just go into the IRR while in school and not resign my commission?
do you think this program will stay around for the next 4 yrs ?
instead of doing the HPSP scholarship, if i chose to take my own loans and then join this after school would it be a good option?
would I need to just go into the IRR while in school and not resign my commission?
do you think this program will stay around for the next 4 yrs ?
With the new changes and associated obligation, I would expect it to be around for a while.
- Joined
- Sep 23, 2002
- Messages
- 556
- Reaction score
- 1
If you are interested in the TMS program, you would get paid while in residency and be IRR. Currently, they are only excepting "critical wartime specialties" ie any surgical specialty, anesthesiology, psychiatry etc....
just trying to get a handle on this
the navy offers two reserve programs is that right
the 2060 a month with 2:1 commitment depending upon duration.
.... ie 5 Year ortho residency would be a 10 year commitment. 3 year IM would be 6.
is the tms program is 600 a month with how long of a commitment now... i am not sure i get it.
ie...if you are an ortho resident and took 5 Years of a 600 dollar stipend how long would you owe. what is the advantage of this over the regular program
also, although not economically smart, could you switch to active duty and serve for a certain amount of time or do the two function as seperate entities. the military currently is extremely undermanned in my specialty.
the navy offers two reserve programs is that right
the 2060 a month with 2:1 commitment depending upon duration.
.... ie 5 Year ortho residency would be a 10 year commitment. 3 year IM would be 6.
is the tms program is 600 a month with how long of a commitment now... i am not sure i get it.
ie...if you are an ortho resident and took 5 Years of a 600 dollar stipend how long would you owe. what is the advantage of this over the regular program
also, although not economically smart, could you switch to active duty and serve for a certain amount of time or do the two function as seperate entities. the military currently is extremely undermanned in my specialty.
after talking to people figured i'd share and produce more questions...
The way I understand it is that TMS requires a 3 year active reserve service obligation regardless of how long one takes the $500 a month pay. That is a general surg resident in a 7 year program serves 3 years after residency as does a IM resident in a 3 year program. There isn't a lot of website info. Is there anyone out there who does this program or knows a ton about it.
1 "Your active drilling is covered by what ur doing in residency." What does that mean, what do you fax over to them, can a line commander who doesn't understand the program ruin your life (ie one wknd a month of active drilling during residency doesn't exist) or is it secure just like hpsp is.
2 "Cannot be activated during residency" It's in the contract but can they again ruin your training by activating you during your trainig for an obscure reason. or is secure like hpsp is
3 "You must take a pft 2x a year" Is this a simple task where you can go to any military institution and take the test or do u have to drive to a navy instituion and take the test at a specific date and drill for the "two days"
4 has it been a positive experience for anyone who has been involved
The way I understand it is that TMS requires a 3 year active reserve service obligation regardless of how long one takes the $500 a month pay. That is a general surg resident in a 7 year program serves 3 years after residency as does a IM resident in a 3 year program. There isn't a lot of website info. Is there anyone out there who does this program or knows a ton about it.
1 "Your active drilling is covered by what ur doing in residency." What does that mean, what do you fax over to them, can a line commander who doesn't understand the program ruin your life (ie one wknd a month of active drilling during residency doesn't exist) or is it secure just like hpsp is.
2 "Cannot be activated during residency" It's in the contract but can they again ruin your training by activating you during your trainig for an obscure reason. or is secure like hpsp is
3 "You must take a pft 2x a year" Is this a simple task where you can go to any military institution and take the test or do u have to drive to a navy instituion and take the test at a specific date and drill for the "two days"
4 has it been a positive experience for anyone who has been involved
- Joined
- Oct 9, 2008
- Messages
- 9
- Reaction score
- 4
Formerly the "MIT" program, or Medical In Training program...
I'm doing it now in the Navy since completing my HPSP active duty payback. I joined before it required a commitment, so I cannot comment on that aspect of the program. I do know that it fulfills your IRR requirement left over after you have paid back your HPSP time (For me: 4 year HPSP scholarship = 4 years active duty + 4 years IRR= 8 year total commitment). Of course, no one ever told me about the 4 year of IRR time after you fulfill your active duty payback...
My recollection of the contract is that you can do the program one of two ways: 1)remain essentially inactive but "drill" 2x per year, during which time you run the PRT. You are loosely attached to some unit that basically is told to never expect you to show up, except for during PRT time.
Option 2: Become a true drilling reservist. You get attached to a unit with a line commander that actually does expect you there some of the time. I find most unit CO's are understanding of our schedules and you should be able to work it out so that you can be there some of the time. The reserves is very different than active duty in that most CO's are so happy to have a doc at all, that you should be able to arrange something that works for everyone involved. This is, of course, providing you don't abuse the arrangement and make a solid effort to show up when you can and support your unit.
The other issue worth mentioning is the concept of a "good year." If you're thinking of doing 20 years, then this matters more than if you are just paying back your IRR time and getting out. The "good year" concept applies to the minimum number of drills and AT days you need during a calendar year to have it count toward retirement as a reservist. I can't remember the exact numbers off the top of my head, but this becomes a factor for those of us who choose option 2 (above).
What I do is I drill whenever my call schedule allows. During the remaining months I call my unit and tell them I need to reschedule the drill. My unit then sends me a muster sheet which I have my department administrator sign saying I attended lectures at my residency program. I then fax the muster sheet back. So long as I attend 8 hours of lectures, simulation, board review, etc., then this counts as one day of drilling. The nice thing about this is, not only am I getting credit for a good year, should I decide to stay in for 20, but I get paid between $500 and $600 a month after taxes each month. On a resident's salary, this is no small chunk of change.
As far as deployability goes, so long as you sign up for the reserves within 6 months of going off active duty, you are protected for 2 years. I'm really not too worried that the Navy would pull me from residency in the third year. That wouldn't do them any good as I'm not boarded yet in my field. There are other ways of protecting against this as well, that i won't get into.
All in all, it's working out well for me. I drill when I can, which works out to be every other month or so and I'm always available by phone for my unit. Pay is always an issue and requires a fair amount of followup on my end. Whatever you do, keep a careful log/spreadsheet of what you should be paid or you will never get what you deserve. Pay in the reserves is a disaster, and I hear the Navy is better than the other branches in this regard.
Also, be very selective about what unit/billet you sign up for. This is not like signing for the HPSP scholarship. This time the military needs you, not the other way around. Research the available billets and sign on your terms, not the recruiter's. Also, research all of the branches as bonus structure and deployment schedules are very different across the branches.
Finally, I would advise against taking any bonuses. Some (like the $10k signing bonus) will preclude you from larger bonuses down the road. Additionally, anytime you see bonus, think more commitment. Those of us that have made it through HPSP are usually wary of being owned for any more time than we have to.
I may do 20, but I want to be able to leave whenever I want, on my terms. I just haven't decided yet and am doing my best to avoid any extra commitment.
Oh, and the PFT cycle is usually a 2-3 month window, so scheudling it shouldn't be a huge deal. And you should be able to do it with anyone, not just your unit.
Hope this helps. PM me if you have further questions.
NFS
I'm doing it now in the Navy since completing my HPSP active duty payback. I joined before it required a commitment, so I cannot comment on that aspect of the program. I do know that it fulfills your IRR requirement left over after you have paid back your HPSP time (For me: 4 year HPSP scholarship = 4 years active duty + 4 years IRR= 8 year total commitment). Of course, no one ever told me about the 4 year of IRR time after you fulfill your active duty payback...
My recollection of the contract is that you can do the program one of two ways: 1)remain essentially inactive but "drill" 2x per year, during which time you run the PRT. You are loosely attached to some unit that basically is told to never expect you to show up, except for during PRT time.
Option 2: Become a true drilling reservist. You get attached to a unit with a line commander that actually does expect you there some of the time. I find most unit CO's are understanding of our schedules and you should be able to work it out so that you can be there some of the time. The reserves is very different than active duty in that most CO's are so happy to have a doc at all, that you should be able to arrange something that works for everyone involved. This is, of course, providing you don't abuse the arrangement and make a solid effort to show up when you can and support your unit.
The other issue worth mentioning is the concept of a "good year." If you're thinking of doing 20 years, then this matters more than if you are just paying back your IRR time and getting out. The "good year" concept applies to the minimum number of drills and AT days you need during a calendar year to have it count toward retirement as a reservist. I can't remember the exact numbers off the top of my head, but this becomes a factor for those of us who choose option 2 (above).
What I do is I drill whenever my call schedule allows. During the remaining months I call my unit and tell them I need to reschedule the drill. My unit then sends me a muster sheet which I have my department administrator sign saying I attended lectures at my residency program. I then fax the muster sheet back. So long as I attend 8 hours of lectures, simulation, board review, etc., then this counts as one day of drilling. The nice thing about this is, not only am I getting credit for a good year, should I decide to stay in for 20, but I get paid between $500 and $600 a month after taxes each month. On a resident's salary, this is no small chunk of change.
As far as deployability goes, so long as you sign up for the reserves within 6 months of going off active duty, you are protected for 2 years. I'm really not too worried that the Navy would pull me from residency in the third year. That wouldn't do them any good as I'm not boarded yet in my field. There are other ways of protecting against this as well, that i won't get into.
All in all, it's working out well for me. I drill when I can, which works out to be every other month or so and I'm always available by phone for my unit. Pay is always an issue and requires a fair amount of followup on my end. Whatever you do, keep a careful log/spreadsheet of what you should be paid or you will never get what you deserve. Pay in the reserves is a disaster, and I hear the Navy is better than the other branches in this regard.
Also, be very selective about what unit/billet you sign up for. This is not like signing for the HPSP scholarship. This time the military needs you, not the other way around. Research the available billets and sign on your terms, not the recruiter's. Also, research all of the branches as bonus structure and deployment schedules are very different across the branches.
Finally, I would advise against taking any bonuses. Some (like the $10k signing bonus) will preclude you from larger bonuses down the road. Additionally, anytime you see bonus, think more commitment. Those of us that have made it through HPSP are usually wary of being owned for any more time than we have to.
I may do 20, but I want to be able to leave whenever I want, on my terms. I just haven't decided yet and am doing my best to avoid any extra commitment.
Oh, and the PFT cycle is usually a 2-3 month window, so scheudling it shouldn't be a huge deal. And you should be able to do it with anyone, not just your unit.
Hope this helps. PM me if you have further questions.
NFS
- Joined
- Jul 10, 2006
- Messages
- 627
- Reaction score
- 3
I agree with this post. I am also finishing my residency while being part of the MIT program. I only had to drill twice a year for PRT and GMT's. I got promoted to LCDR while on this program which increased my monthly pay from low $500's to mind $600's. I also did not take the 10K bonus fearing additional commitment. Now, I am rolling back into the IRR and will consider resigning my commission vs. reserves after fellowship. I think the program is literally free money but would stay AWAY from it if they start requiring a 2 year payback for every year of MIT. Good luck!
Thanks for the responses. So I am new to the military...I have the TMS information that was given to me and then I have the actual Navy Reserve Contract DD 1131/161 which you have to sign which states you must actively drill, anyone can be activated for any reason and put into a unit for any reason, and that no other promises written or otherwise have been given.
How does this work? The two go against each other because you would joining under the premise that this isn't possible. Can you get the TMS information in the actual contract ie... non-deployable during residency, drilling covered by residency commitments, etc...? I understand you are joining the Navy but how do you protect your "investment" of residency?
My only goal here is not deploy during residency and not have to actively drill 1 wknd/month and 2wks a year (that time frankly just doesn't exist) This is what docs I talked to in the program and the recruiter have told me is the case.
Appreciate any help.
How does this work? The two go against each other because you would joining under the premise that this isn't possible. Can you get the TMS information in the actual contract ie... non-deployable during residency, drilling covered by residency commitments, etc...? I understand you are joining the Navy but how do you protect your "investment" of residency?
My only goal here is not deploy during residency and not have to actively drill 1 wknd/month and 2wks a year (that time frankly just doesn't exist) This is what docs I talked to in the program and the recruiter have told me is the case.
Appreciate any help.
I know TMS is small so I might get some bites on opening it up.
When you sign a contract for HPSP or any reserve program that protects you from deployment until the completion of residency (stipend program)... Did you still sign the same contract that all officers joining the military do or a special contract for your program?
That contract states:
you can deploy at any time without consent and serve at the pleasure of the president and must drill...
How does the second half of this work out where:
-in HPSP (as described all over the forum)
-TMS where you don't drill, can't deploy, take the PFT, and can't be deployed or activated during residency or first two years as an attending
Again, I appreciate the fact that I am joining the military just trying to make sure my residency training is protected because the two somewhat contradict each other. It would make sense the military would want critical need specialists to complete their critical need speciality but I want it all in writing. I wanted to see what other people have signed in this program or others.
Thank you for any response. I really appreciate it.
When you sign a contract for HPSP or any reserve program that protects you from deployment until the completion of residency (stipend program)... Did you still sign the same contract that all officers joining the military do or a special contract for your program?
That contract states:
you can deploy at any time without consent and serve at the pleasure of the president and must drill...
How does the second half of this work out where:
-in HPSP (as described all over the forum)
-TMS where you don't drill, can't deploy, take the PFT, and can't be deployed or activated during residency or first two years as an attending
Again, I appreciate the fact that I am joining the military just trying to make sure my residency training is protected because the two somewhat contradict each other. It would make sense the military would want critical need specialists to complete their critical need speciality but I want it all in writing. I wanted to see what other people have signed in this program or others.
Thank you for any response. I really appreciate it.
Match day is coming up and I'm considering my options in the reserves v. NG v. ANG ...
I like the idea of the Navy's TMS program as I think it offers a fair balance of benefits received vs. obligation.
Is this program still in effect? It's a 1:1 commitment right now, correct?
Questions:
1. for every year I take TMS, I owe 1-year in the Navy Reserves after residency?
2. what do I need to do to make sure I get the option where you only do the two drills a year as this is a 'major' difference between the Navy and the NG (where you would drill every month while in residency)
3. do you have any control over what sort of billet/job/unit you would be assigned to after residency?
4. if i already completed my 8-years (prior service) would I still be IRR after my initial active reserve obligation?
thanks!
I like the idea of the Navy's TMS program as I think it offers a fair balance of benefits received vs. obligation.
Is this program still in effect? It's a 1:1 commitment right now, correct?
Questions:
1. for every year I take TMS, I owe 1-year in the Navy Reserves after residency?
2. what do I need to do to make sure I get the option where you only do the two drills a year as this is a 'major' difference between the Navy and the NG (where you would drill every month while in residency)
3. do you have any control over what sort of billet/job/unit you would be assigned to after residency?
4. if i already completed my 8-years (prior service) would I still be IRR after my initial active reserve obligation?
thanks!
- Joined
- Feb 26, 2014
- Messages
- 11
- Reaction score
- 0
All -
I'm a Navy Medical Programs recruiter and just did several presentations on TMS. I'm happy to answer any questions you have...or find the answer if I don't know them.
Just in case any of the program details need clearing up, it's basically this:
- A Navy Reserve program that allows you to count your residency time as drill (i.e. no drills or deployment during residency)
- You ARE eligible for a $2188/month stipend AND $50K loan repayment (some think TMS makes you ineligible for this - simply not true)
- The commitment time is dependent on which, if any, of the above you decide to take
- There IS a 3 year reserve commitment for TMS only - stipends/loan repayment also require a "2 for 1" payback, of which loan repayment is concurrent
- For example, if you take TMS + Stipend/Loan Repayment, your commitment assuming a 3 year residency, would be 9 years of reserve time (3 for TMS + 6 for Stipend/LRP)
- You can choose to only do TMS (3 year commitment) or TMS+Stipend or TMS+Stipend+LRP. You cannot take LRP without taking Stipend (so LRP is somewhat free $$)
- If you add everything up, assuming you take everything, you basically get about $160,000 in pay/bonuses/LRP for 9 years of reserve time. Your commitment will be less if you take less benefits.
Hopefully this cleared some stuff up. For those weighing the options of TMS+Stipend+LRP during residency, versus simply waiting to join the Reserves after residency, the numbers are fairly similar depending on your specialty, since you will get a sign-on bonus+LRP then as well. Also, for those saying you can ONLY be in a critical wartime specialty, that's not necessarily true either. Yes, you will have a higher chance of being accepted, but the Navy simply needs doctors and is willing to allow others to participate in certain cases.
I'm a Navy Medical Programs recruiter and just did several presentations on TMS. I'm happy to answer any questions you have...or find the answer if I don't know them.
Just in case any of the program details need clearing up, it's basically this:
- A Navy Reserve program that allows you to count your residency time as drill (i.e. no drills or deployment during residency)
- You ARE eligible for a $2188/month stipend AND $50K loan repayment (some think TMS makes you ineligible for this - simply not true)
- The commitment time is dependent on which, if any, of the above you decide to take
- There IS a 3 year reserve commitment for TMS only - stipends/loan repayment also require a "2 for 1" payback, of which loan repayment is concurrent
- For example, if you take TMS + Stipend/Loan Repayment, your commitment assuming a 3 year residency, would be 9 years of reserve time (3 for TMS + 6 for Stipend/LRP)
- You can choose to only do TMS (3 year commitment) or TMS+Stipend or TMS+Stipend+LRP. You cannot take LRP without taking Stipend (so LRP is somewhat free $$)
- If you add everything up, assuming you take everything, you basically get about $160,000 in pay/bonuses/LRP for 9 years of reserve time. Your commitment will be less if you take less benefits.
Hopefully this cleared some stuff up. For those weighing the options of TMS+Stipend+LRP during residency, versus simply waiting to join the Reserves after residency, the numbers are fairly similar depending on your specialty, since you will get a sign-on bonus+LRP then as well. Also, for those saying you can ONLY be in a critical wartime specialty, that's not necessarily true either. Yes, you will have a higher chance of being accepted, but the Navy simply needs doctors and is willing to allow others to participate in certain cases.
- Joined
- Jan 24, 2008
- Messages
- 198
- Reaction score
- 21
Anyone know or have a good recruiter ? I can't seem to get one to respond. I had this same problem with the hpsp scholarship app. I was an 0-3 with prior service and did not get selected. That doesn't seem right and I know my recruiter dropped the ball.
Sorry don't follow too much anymore...
TMS program is as advertised. No mobilization. No AT. Generally get paid on time. Taking the bonus significantly adds payback time otherwise it's 3 years. There are couple of things I would draw your attention to.
1) You need to understand, depending on your residency, two weekends completely off might be the only full weekends you have off for months at a time. That can be very stressful to coordinate. It's a personal choice but it gets down to one simple fact; You have to want to be in the military.
2) The line NOSC CO sometimes has a significant disconnect between your status, time, and role. You need to take an active role in communicating with him or her.
3) You need to consider the limit it might place on your post residency plans. A small family practice clinic doesn't want a MD that could be gone for a year and neither does a NYC plastic surgery group. A hospital based ER group won't care. (yes there is a law but...)
4) You have to want to be in the military because 1,2 and 3 is stressful at times.
5) see # 4
TMS program is as advertised. No mobilization. No AT. Generally get paid on time. Taking the bonus significantly adds payback time otherwise it's 3 years. There are couple of things I would draw your attention to.
1) You need to understand, depending on your residency, two weekends completely off might be the only full weekends you have off for months at a time. That can be very stressful to coordinate. It's a personal choice but it gets down to one simple fact; You have to want to be in the military.
2) The line NOSC CO sometimes has a significant disconnect between your status, time, and role. You need to take an active role in communicating with him or her.
3) You need to consider the limit it might place on your post residency plans. A small family practice clinic doesn't want a MD that could be gone for a year and neither does a NYC plastic surgery group. A hospital based ER group won't care. (yes there is a law but...)
4) You have to want to be in the military because 1,2 and 3 is stressful at times.
5) see # 4
- Joined
- Jan 24, 2008
- Messages
- 198
- Reaction score
- 21
what specialty fields does the Navy qualify as acceptable for the TMS program? what recruiter should I contact if interested? does it have to be an Officer recruiting command?
- Joined
- Jan 9, 2015
- Messages
- 30
- Reaction score
- 33
Will PM you shortly.
I am also interested in finding out which specialties. I am assuming something like Internal Medicine is not.
- Joined
- Feb 8, 2012
- Messages
- 22
- Reaction score
- 12
.
Last edited:
