To save an ex-underachiever; is it even possible?

[theunderachiever]

Greetings all,

I am looking for any and all information, guidance, wisdom, or whatever you can throw at me. Some background:

I was a terrible high school student and deliberately avoided the sciences out of intimidation (GPA 3.10)
I was a mediocre community college student and took a great interest in psychology (GPA 3.31)
My mediocrity carried over into University (GPA 3.19), but I have gotten my BA in cognitive psychology.

I was an underachiever; I prioritized my social life over academics. I have displayed above the numbers indicating my grade point average, but here is what those numbers would not show:

In the last quarters as I neared my BA, I...

- Picked up private research opportunities and am currently researching under a private neuropsychologist
- Acquired a job working for a forensic psychology firm
- Have gotten a volley of 3.7 quarterly GPAs in penance for having done badly earlier on
- Became curiously interested in becoming scientifically literate
- Have been having some wild dreams of the future

Something in me clicked; I threw away my habits of old and have fervently embraced the magnificence of learning and applying oneself in school. I was taking a class in neurobiology (that had ghosted its way into the psychology curriculum) and became extremely interested in the brain; I even aced the course! I had been preparing for the psychology route, but I have since grown eager to see if I could be a psychiatrist instead. I don't want to be an underachiever anymore.

This is a plan I've been formulating as of late, and I wanted to ask your opinion about it:

1.) Post-bacc program in the natural sciences (my chances are promising for a program up in Cal, with an emphasis in pre-med studies)
2a.) Provided I perform above average and discover a potential in myself the ability to do this, proceed to prepare for the MCAT
2b.) Provided I do not perform as well as I'd hope, accept my extension GPA, take the GRE, and pursue what had been plan A: graduate school for psychology.

My motif is this: I'd much rather fully try my hand at the sciences and fail than pursue a MA/PhD as originally planned without truly knowing if I could have studied to become a psychiatrist.

My undergraduate cumulative is low, but if I performed exceptionally well on the post-bacc (and the MCAT too), could perhaps these dreams of the future come to fruition? If I truly apply myself, could this task be taken? Am I being an overzealous *****? Any and all feedback is greatly appreciated. Thank you.

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[RKBrumbelow]

My motif is this: I'd much rather fully try my hand at the sciences and fail than pursue a MA/PhD as originally planned without truly knowing if I could have studied to become a psychiatrist.

Personally I plan to go into Psychiatry with an MD/PhD so I am not certain why you see a dichotomy.

As for the rest, if you score well on the MCAT, show a strong upwards trend on your science GPA and GPA in general, so your humanitarian/ clinical volunteer work and do not have your heart set on a top tier school, there is no reason you cannot do exactly what you have planned.

 

[theunderachiever]

Personally I plan to go into Psychiatry with an MD/PhD so I am not certain why you see a dichotomy.

As for the rest, if you score well on the MCAT, show a strong upwards trend on your science GPA and GPA in general, so your humanitarian/ clinical volunteer work and do not have your heart set on a top tier school, there is no reason you cannot do exactly what you have planned.

I could have worded that bit you quoted a heck of a lot better. I'd created a medical school versus graduate school dichotomy if only because I'd personally pursue one [at a time]. I graciously commend your pursuance for an MD/PhD and wish you success! I indeed do not have my heart set on a top tier school, but I surely wonder how the mid tier schools would deconstruct my efforts. Thank you kindly for your responding to my thread.

 

[stevesteve123]

you got 3.3 in cc and ended up with 3.2 in arts major?

unless you are URM you probly need to crush a post-bac and MCAT to have A SHOT of acceptance

got any medical related extra curricular? know what being a doc is all about?

pretty hard to convince adcom to take you in if you are only interested in being a psychiatrist with those stats

otoh consider going DO.....

 

[RKBrumbelow]

I could have worded that bit you quoted a heck of a lot better. I'd created a medical school versus graduate school dichotomy if only because I'd personally pursue one [at a time]. I graciously commend your pursuance for an MD/PhD and wish you success! I indeed do not have my heart set on a top tier school, but I surely wonder how the mid tier schools would deconstruct my efforts. Thank you kindly for your responding to my thread.

I am sure there are some adcoms or more experienced people who will be able to weigh in on the details, but have you contacted your top 2 schools and asked them for advice on what exactly they want, and then gone over to http://mdapplicants.com/ and profile stalked some of their students? If not I would highly suggest it, then if you find someone with a profile similar to yours you can even contact them here and see if they can show you some of the ropes. Just a thought.

 

[splik]

aren't PhD programs even more competitive that med school? if you can't get into med school you aren't gonna be able to get into a PhD program. unless you are talking about a PsyD or one of these psychology diploma mills that are proliferating?

 

[theunderachiever]

http://mdapplicants.com/

Thank you for this! Yes, I've been in touch with seven schools and intend to tack on more.

 

[theunderachiever]

aren't PhD programs even more competitive that med school? if you can't get into med school you aren't gonna be able to get into a PhD program. unless you are talking about a PsyD or one of these psychology diploma mills that are proliferating?

I was under the impression that it's the other way around, but perhaps I'm wrong. I don't intend to get a PsyD or one of those "Alliant College" $40 diplomas.

 

[theunderachiever]

you got 3.3 in cc and ended up with 3.2 in arts major?

unless you are URM you probly need to crush a post-bac and MCAT to have A SHOT of acceptance

got any medical related extra curricular? know what being a doc is all about?

pretty hard to convince adcom to take you in if you are only interested in being a psychiatrist with those stats

otoh consider going DO.....

Precisely the reaction I'd anticipate from any AdCom; it's a long story. I'm not an URM, but getting a shot at acceptance is precisely what I'm deliberating. I have no medical related extra curriculars under my belt, but I perhaps have an idea 'what being a doc is all about' - I should hope.

 

[splik]

I was under the impression that it's the other way around, but perhaps I'm wrong. I don't intend to get a PsyD or one of those "Alliant College" $40 diplomas.

no clinical psychology PhD programs are definitely more competitive than med school the ones that provide funding anyway.

 

[Psychotic]

So you need to do a post bacc to get your science pre reqs?

If yes, find a supportive program that includes prep for the MCAT. I was a lib arts undergrad, and did a one year post bacc at a pretty tough place. But I also had a 3.95 UG GPA, and I almost matched that in the post bacc courses...and I still didn't have med schools beating down my doors.

 

[RKBrumbelow]

You definitely want to get 100+ hours of volunteer work, 50+ hours of shadowing and dunno? 100+ hours of clinical under your belt before applying.

 

[theunderachiever]

So you need to do a post bacc to get your science pre reqs?

If yes, find a supportive program that includes prep for the MCAT. I was a lib arts undergrad, and did a one year post bacc at a pretty tough place. But I also had a 3.95 UG GPA, and I almost matched that in the post bacc courses...and I still didn't have med schools beating down my doors.

I would need a post-bacc, yes. There are six programs that are local up at home; I've contacted them all and at this point it's a matter of discerning which is the most supportive.

 

[theunderachiever]

You definitely want to get 100+ hours of volunteer work, 50+ hours of shadowing and dunno? 100+ hours of clinical under your belt before applying.

Very true, yes. I've reached out to my UG medical center for inquiries in that respect. Thank you for all the information you have provided; your remarks have been very insightful.

 

[Psychotic]

I have no medical related extra curriculars under my belt, but I perhaps have an idea 'what being a doc is all about' - I should hope.

You will have difficulty getting into a post bacc program without the ECs, much less getting into a med school.

You have the cart before the horse.

But, I will bow out of this thread by saying "good luck." Anything is possible, but you have dug a pretty deep hole with that GPA.

 

[theunderachiever]

You will have difficulty getting into a post bacc program without the ECs, much less getting into a med school.

You have the cart before the horse.

But, I will bow out of this thread by saying "good luck." Anything is possible, but you have dug a pretty deep hole with that GPA.

You're right. Thanks all the same.

I'd tell you I wish I could do UG a second time around, but then I'd sound like a broken record.

 

[clausewitz2]

DO is going to be a lot easier for you, between grade replacement and slightly lower GPAs generally. If you decide only an MD is acceptable (unsure why if you are mainly interested in psych), be prepared to cast a very, very broad net

 

[Bartelby]

You already know that you are not in a good spot, but I think it isn't a lost cause. If you get close to straight As in your postbacc (ideally 3.9+) and shoot for mid-30s or higher on the MCAT I think there is a real chance, especially if you have in-state schools that are lower on the competitiveness spectrum or will apply DO as well. Of course we don't know anything about you as a person or the things you have done outside of a classroom, and that matters too.

So basically give it real thought and go into it knowing you have to shine, but don't think it's a totally lost cause. If you had a 2.5 GPA or something like that I would say don't bother, but a 3.2 may be possible to overcome with other things. As per the other posters here, apply broadly and be ready to jump on any offers. Good luck!

 

[theunderachiever]

DO is going to be a lot easier for you, between grade replacement and slightly lower GPAs generally. If you decide only an MD is acceptable (unsure why if you are mainly interested in psych), be prepared to cast a very, very broad net

I like how you worded that; thank you for your response. I've got nothing at all against DO.

 

[theunderachiever]

You already know that you are not in a good spot, but I think it isn't a lost cause. If you get close to straight As in your postbacc (ideally 3.9+) and shoot for mid-30s or higher on the MCAT I think there is a real chance, especially if you have in-state schools that are lower on the competitiveness spectrum or will apply DO as well. Of course we don't know anything about you as a person or the things you have done outside of a classroom, and that matters too.

So basically give it real thought and go into it knowing you have to shine, but don't think it's a totally lost cause. If you had a 2.5 GPA or something like that I would say don't bother, but a 3.2 may be possible to overcome with other things. As per the other posters here, apply broadly and be ready to jump on any offers. Good luck!

Thank you for that, Bartelby. Of course I haven't any other plan but excelling in my academic pursuits from this point forward. I likewise do not (or maybe just cannot) conceive that there is a "too late", having now figured out what it takes to be a competent and serious student. My applications would indeed be broad, and should I miss my shot, I know there are other health-related options that reside underneath the high goals I've set for myself.

 

[MacDonaldTriad]

pretty hard to convince adcom to take you in if you are only interested in being a psychiatrist with those stats

otoh consider going DO.....

Not a very strong endorsement for DOs. Not only does it take the wind out of DO sails, it probably puts a large vacuum in the stern. Be leery of for profit schools without endowment, a hospital, or a research infrastructure.

Here is a telling metric, what percentage of a school’s administration is dedicated to processing student loans? All surviving schools have a functional financial aid office, but some schools have little else.

 

[smalltownpsych]

Also the preparation for med school and preparation for a psychology PhD are different, but a a big emphasis for those PhD programs is research experience so if you can rock it with what you are doing now in neuroscience, that could help. I am not sure how the scores on the MCAT correspond with the GRE but I'm assuming that there is probably a bit of a correlation and not sure which path has higher cutoffs. I always test super high so that would not have been an obstacle for me in either path, but that could be something to consider.

 

[psych md jd]

“If you put your mind to it, you can accomplish anything.”― George McFly

 

[MLT2MT2DO]

Greetings all,

I am looking for any and all information, guidance, wisdom, or whatever you can throw at me. Some background:

I was a terrible high school student and deliberately avoided the sciences out of intimidation (GPA 3.10)
I was a mediocre community college student and took a great interest in psychology (GPA 3.31)
My mediocrity carried over into University (GPA 3.19), but I have gotten my BA in cognitive psychology.

I was an underachiever; I prioritized my social life over academics. I have displayed above the numbers indicating my grade point average, but here is what those numbers would not show:

In the last quarters as I neared my BA, I...

- Picked up private research opportunities and am currently researching under a private neuropsychologist
- Acquired a job working for a forensic psychology firm
- Have gotten a volley of 3.7 quarterly GPAs in penance for having done badly earlier on
- Became curiously interested in becoming scientifically literate
- Have been having some wild dreams of the future

Something in me clicked; I threw away my habits of old and have fervently embraced the magnificence of learning and applying oneself in school. I was taking a class in neurobiology (that had ghosted its way into the psychology curriculum) and became extremely interested in the brain; I even aced the course! I had been preparing for the psychology route, but I have since grown eager to see if I could be a psychiatrist instead. I don't want to be an underachiever anymore.

This is a plan I've been formulating as of late, and I wanted to ask your opinion about it:

1.) Post-bacc program in the natural sciences (my chances are promising for a program up in Cal, with an emphasis in pre-med studies)
2a.) Provided I perform above average and discover a potential in myself the ability to do this, proceed to prepare for the MCAT
2b.) Provided I do not perform as well as I'd hope, accept my extension GPA, take the GRE, and pursue what had been plan A: graduate school for psychology.

My motif is this: I'd much rather fully try my hand at the sciences and fail than pursue a MA/PhD as originally planned without truly knowing if I could have studied to become a psychiatrist.

My undergraduate cumulative is low, but if I performed exceptionally well on the post-bacc (and the MCAT too), could perhaps these dreams of the future come to fruition? If I truly apply myself, could this task be taken? Am I being an overzealous *****? Any and all feedback is greatly appreciated. Thank you.

I started my journey towards med school with a GPA of 0.30 after about 40 credits of UG....if you want it, go get it.

 

[theunderachiever]

Also the preparation for med school and preparation for a psychology PhD are different, but a a big emphasis for those PhD programs is research experience so if you can rock it with what you are doing now in neuroscience, that could help. I am not sure how the scores on the MCAT correspond with the GRE but I'm assuming that there is probably a bit of a correlation and not sure which path has higher cutoffs. I always test super high so that would not have been an obstacle for me in either path, but that could be something to consider.

And consider it I shall. Thank you for sharing. They are considerably different, which is why I made - somewhat erroneously - a "dichotomy" out of the two choices as noted earlier in this thread. MD/DO is a fairly new turn of events, what with my sudden interest in actually making a change in my life and doing well in school! Anyway, thanks again.

 

[theunderachiever]

“If you put your mind to it, you can accomplish anything.”― George McFly

I've got 1.21 gigawatts banking on my trying especially hard from here on out.

 

[theunderachiever]

I started my journey towards me school with a GPA of 0.30 after about 40 credits of UG....if you want it, go get it.

I commend you for picking it up and bringing it home. Thanks for that. I will certainly try.

 

[postbacpremed87]

I like how you worded that; thank you for your response. I've got nothing at all against DO.

Perform average to above average in a DO school and you will match Psychiatry. The letters after your name mean nothing after you match.

 

[MacDonaldTriad]

The best medical students at the worst medical school will always be far better than the worst students at the best school, but the initials after your name do count in academic settings. Not only do the initials count, where you got the initials count. If your goal is to see patients and bill insurance companies, it doesn’t matter. If you end up butting heads with someone else for one specific job, these things can tip the balance, but we all work hard and hurdle very high barriers so that our employers are all disparate for us. Even the jobs that have reduced themselves to the lofty criteria of a pulse test can be pretty good.

Me: “Don’t take this person no matter what you do. They are completely incompetent and horrible to work with.”

Employer: OK, so they have paid their debt to society and their license is valid again so we will be offering them a job….

 

[thoffen]

Not sure I understand what MacDonaldTriad is trying to say. There are plenty of jobs in psychiatry.

I think what you presented is plenty fine to get into a DO school. I would, however, try to figure out your "underachieving" a bit more prior to embarking on this path.

 

[theunderachiever]

Not sure I understand what MacDonaldTriad is trying to say. There are plenty of jobs in psychiatry.

I think what you presented is plenty fine to get into a DO school. I would, however, try to figure out your "underachieving" a bit more prior to embarking on this path.

I wasn't following the remarks above yours either... but in any event:

Yes, suffice it to say I've been doing plenty of "soul searching". I wouldn't be so trite as to say that I've "figured it all out", but I am on my way.