Top Residency For Carribean Students

[SportsMed23]

Hi Guys,

I'm a future first year medical student that will be attending Ross University in Dominica. I had a few questions in regards to residency and my chances at top residencies.

I know it's very competitive for foreign medical students to obtain residency in the states but I know its also possible. Some things about me include MCAT score of 515 and a 2.8 GPA. I was going through a lot of personal issues during undergrad which really took a toll on me mentally and had a detrimental effect on my academics. I however did have some time to thoroughly grind out some time to study for my MCAT and scored pretty well, so do know I have the capability to become a successful medical student when I can truly apply myself. Like I said I know it's very competitive for top-tier residences such as derm, gen surg, and neuro, but I have no other intention in these upcoming 4 years besides to pledge my absolute and complete effort into at the minimum being competitive for top tier residencies at at least mid-level programs. Realistically I know I would at least need a step score of at least 250 to even take a peak at my application. I'm wondering what else I would need to focus on and how I should plan out my summers in regards to research and other parts of my application that would allow me to stand out? Thanks again for reading this and all your input!

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[FindMeOnTheLinks]

You will be fighting an uphill battle to match at all into a competitive specialty, much less match at a mid-tier program. You should read this to understand what you are up against
http://www.nrmp.org/wp-content/uploads/2018/06/Charting-Outcomes-in-the-Match-2018-Seniors.pdf

At minimum, you will need a 250+ step 1 and step 2, with excellent LORs and robust research output to even get interview consideration at programs in competitive specialties. There are thousands of US medical students who have all of these things - you will need to do something above and beyond to get consideration over them.

 

[Med Ed]

I'm wondering what else I would need to focus on and how I should plan out my summers in regards to research and other parts of my application that would allow me to stand out?

Honestly, a post-bacc or SMP.

 

[MedicineN'Jazz]

Hi Guys,

I'm a future first year medical student that will be attending Ross University in Dominica. I had a few questions in regards to residency and my chances at top residencies.

I know it's very competitive for foreign medical students to obtain residency in the states but I know its also possible. Some things about me include MCAT score of 515 and a 2.8 GPA. I was going through a lot of personal issues during undergrad which really took a toll on me mentally and had a detrimental effect on my academics. I however did have some time to thoroughly grind out some time to study for my MCAT and scored pretty well, so do know I have the capability to become a successful medical student when I can truly apply myself. Like I said I know it's very competitive for top-tier residences such as derm, gen surg, and neuro, but I have no other intention in these upcoming 4 years besides to pledge my absolute and complete effort into at the minimum being competitive for top tier residencies at at least mid-level programs. Realistically I know I would at least need a step score of at least 250 to even take a peak at my application. I'm wondering what else I would need to focus on and how I should plan out my summers in regards to research and other parts of my application that would allow me to stand out? Thanks again for reading this and all your input!

With the upcoming merger, it will be nearly impossible for IMGs to match into competitive residencies. Question: why don’t you just enroll in a 1 yr post bacc? Your MCAT would place you as a great candidate for most of the linkage programs

 

[LebronManning]

With the upcoming merger, it will be nearly impossible for IMGs to match into competitive residencies. Question: why don’t you just enroll in a 1 yr post bacc? Your MCAT would place you as a great candidate for most of the linkage programs

Lol how will the upcoming merger make it harder for IMGs to match anything? There will actually be more residency spots open to US MD/IMG than there were before since the former DO only programs will be open to everyone. DOs have already been able to apply and match MD residencies. Thus, there will actually be more spots for IMGs. The people that are getting shafted are actually DOs because now you lose the only way they matched competitive specialties: programs that only take DOs.

 

[MedicineN'Jazz]

Lol how will the upcoming merger make it harder for IMGs to match anything? There will actually be more residency spots open to US MD/IMG than there were before since the former DO only programs will be open to everyone. DOs have already been able to apply and match MD residencies. Thus, there will actually be more spots for IMGs. The people that are getting shafted are actually DOs because now you lose the only way they matched competitive specialties: programs that only take DOs.

LOL in what world are you living in? Programs will never prefer IMGs over DOs

 

[Lawpy]

LOL in what world are you living in? Programs will never prefer IMGs over DOs

How do you know?

 

[MedicineN'Jazz]

How do you know?

I do my research

 

[Lawpy]

I do my research

Would like to know your sources

 

[MedicineN'Jazz]

Would like to know your sources

:troll:

 

[LebronManning]

LOL in what world are you living in? Programs will never prefer IMGs over DOs

1) I didn't say that. I said compared to how hard it is right now to match as an IMG, it will be easier post merger and compared to how it is now for DOs, it will be harder to match for DOs. That's basic logic considering DOs formerly had an entire match that only they could tap into and now they have to compete with everyone whereas the USMDs and IMGs have always been competing with everyone.

2) Don't confuse IMG with Carib IMG. There are several programs (usually surgical subspecialties) that will take talented International MDs (think Europe, Australia) but won't touch a DO. This is also true with many top tier east coast IM programs. My family member who is the head of interventional cards at a big name NYC institution has openly said he would not consider a DO but would consider non Carib IMGs. Still a better path than Carib, sure.

 

[Lawpy]

:troll:

LOL in what world are you living in? Programs will never prefer IMGs over DOs

You made an unsupported claim that programs will never prefer IMGs over DOs. I don't know where you got this from, which is why I'm asking.

 

[Lawpy]

LOL in what world are you living in? Programs will never prefer IMGs over DOs

By the way, anti-DO bias is a serious problem, and for certain specialties (say surgical subspecialties), the bias is strong enough for programs to actually consider US IMGs over DOs. I don't know why that is, but to say that programs never prefer IMGs over DOs is wrong.

Previous discussion on the matter: Dying med student forced to study with chest cracked open, no hair, no voice, in extreme pain—so he

Residency programs don't work the way you think they do, which is why making absolute claims without support is misleading and inaccurate.

 

[MedicineN'Jazz]

By the way, anti-DO bias is a serious problem, and for certain specialties (say surgical subspecialties), the bias is strong enough for programs to actually consider US IMGs over DOs. I don't know why that is, but to say that programs never prefer IMGs over DOs is wrong.

Previous discussion on the matter: Dying med student forced to study with chest cracked open, no hair, no voice, in extreme pain—so he

Residency programs don't work the way you think they do, which is why making absolute claims without support is misleading and inaccurate.

You have way too much energy at this time of night. Why don’t you matriculate into a Foreign medical school, and test this theory out yourself I would love to see the outcome

 

[SportsMed23]

Actually with the new merger it would make it an opening playing field for all residencies, meaning DO's wont get the residencies that are only allocated to them.

To be honest I don't want to wait another year and do a post-bacc I just want to start over with my life and far away from my current situation as possible, I don't have the mental capacitance to deal with it anymore and I know if I stay I will eventually end up burning out and losing my mind. I know a good amount of Caribbean students that matched into mid-upper residencies just not at top tier programs. I also have a few friends in the states that have research lined up for me. I really want to go into orthopedic surgery and one of my friends told me he would get in contact with one of the research directors who put him on almost 8 different publications, so I feel pretty confident in regards to connections. Just looking for other small tips and tricks I can implement.

I can't post links here but the residency match list for AUC and Ross are pretty decent.
Obviously they have accredited hospitals which allow some residencies to be much easier to qualify for but not to sound arrogant I have absolutely no intention on being mediocre or being complacent

 

[Lawpy]

You have way too much energy at this time of night. Why don’t you matriculate into a Foreign medical school, and test this theory out yourself I would love to see the outcome

No need when previous discussion and the NRMP PD report actually show the outcomes .

And not sure why you're assuming I'm supporting going international over DO. I'm just saying you made an absolute, unsupported claim that happened to be wrong. What actually happens and what's seen in the data don't always align with what we think happens. I don't really care if you want to believe it, but the data speak for themselves.

 

[Oso]

I really want to go into orthopedic surgery

To be honest I don't want to wait another year and do a post-bacc I just want to start over with my life

Dude .... ortho is not gonna happen from the Carib. Come on.

If you actually want a competitive specialty then take the time to do things right.

 

[SportsMed23]

Dude .... ortho is not gonna happen from the Carib. Come on.

If you actually want a competitive specialty then take the time to do things right.

I know people from Caribbean schools that have matched into ENT, Derm, Optho, Ortho, etc. Obviously I know its very competitive but to say it's impossible is a complete fallacy. Matter of fact 4 students from the last class at Ross matched into the ones I mentioned

 

[Lawpy]

Hi Guys,

I'm a future first year medical student that will be attending Ross University in Dominica. I had a few questions in regards to residency and my chances at top residencies.

I know it's very competitive for foreign medical students to obtain residency in the states but I know its also possible. Some things about me include MCAT score of 515 and a 2.8 GPA. I was going through a lot of personal issues during undergrad which really took a toll on me mentally and had a detrimental effect on my academics. I however did have some time to thoroughly grind out some time to study for my MCAT and scored pretty well, so do know I have the capability to become a successful medical student when I can truly apply myself. Like I said I know it's very competitive for top-tier residences such as derm, gen surg, and neuro, but I have no other intention in these upcoming 4 years besides to pledge my absolute and complete effort into at the minimum being competitive for top tier residencies at at least mid-level programs. Realistically I know I would at least need a step score of at least 250 to even take a peak at my application. I'm wondering what else I would need to focus on and how I should plan out my summers in regards to research and other parts of my application that would allow me to stand out? Thanks again for reading this and all your input!

Regardless of the side discussion, I think it's probably better for you to drop out of Caribbean and go for SMP/post-bacc and try to get into a US DO school (not sure whether US MD is possible with your GPA even after grade repair). Although if you want to remain in the Caribbean route, you probably shouldn't be focusing on competitive specialties and residencies, since anti-Caribbean bias is a serious problem that signals a lot of red flags to programs. Competitive programs have a lot of strong US MD and US DO applicants to choose from (likely more applicants than seats available), so a Caribbean student with an application that can actually outcompete their US MD and US DO peers is unlikely.

 

[LebronManning]

You have way too much energy at this time of night. Why don’t you matriculate into a Foreign medical school, and test this theory out yourself I would love to see the outcome

What are you even talking about? You're arguing with him just as much as he is with you and you're getting upset like this is the first time you're hearing something that contradicts your "research" and you can't handle it. Lawper doesn't need to test it out cause the data is out there. Go look at surgical sub match lists and you will find more respectable IMGs (Australia, Europe, even India), but very little DOs. Same with upper tier IM programs in the east coast. Many people are of the opinion that DO bias in their program is a life long problem (DO degree sticks with you) vs. respectable IMG MD is an MD nonetheless and if their numbers and research are good then no problem. You seem to think people treat all IMGs the same as carib grads lol.

 

[Lawpy]

What are you even talking about? You're arguing with him just as much as he is with you and you're getting upset like this is the first time you're hearing something that contradicts your "research" and you can't handle it. Lawper doesn't need to test it out cause the data is out there. Go look at surgical sub match lists and you will find more respectable IMGs (Australia, Europe, even India), but very little DOs. Same with upper tier IM programs in the east coast. Many people are of the opinion that DO bias in their program is a life long problem (DO degree sticks with you) vs. respectable IMG MD is an MD nonetheless and if their numbers and research are good then no problem. You seem to think people treat all IMGs the same as carib grads lol.

Just want to clarify that the thread I linked and the NRMP PD report actually show that some programs in some specialties (I think ENT and neurosurg) apparently favor US IMG over DO (granted US IMG isn't the same as Carib since people can go to Duke-NUS and other programs).

See pg 94 for ENT and look for "Percentage of Programs that Typically Interview and Rank Each Applicant Type": http://www.nrmp.org/wp-content/uploads/2016/09/NRMP-2016-Program-Director-Survey.pdf

I can understand the frustration since the data don't agree with what we think happens, and personally for me, this is upsetting since I didn't expect programs to be so strongly influenced by letters after someone's name that they would consider a US IMG over DO. It's irritating but life isn't fair and PDs are subject to biases and elitism. That's why as much as I want to agree with the claim that programs never favor IMGs over DOs, the reality sadly disagrees.

 

[SportsMed23]

How would taking a transitional year affect my chances? My friend's sister went to St. George's did a transitiona year and ended up doing her ENT residency at Tulane then did a fellow at Hopkins

 

[trobinsonmd]

You can pretty much forget about dermatology and surgical specialties if you are going Caribbean. Sure, once in a blue moon, you hear a story of someone matching into these specialties as an IMG... sometimes they are Caribbean, other times they are from a much more respected country wrt medical education... if I was you, I would do a post-bac and apply to american medical schools if these specialties are what you are interested in... even going to the lowest ranked medical school will give you a much higher shot of matching...

 

[AnatomyGrey12]

You have way too much energy at this time of night. Why don’t you matriculate into a Foreign medical school, and test this theory out yourself I would love to see the outcome

You’re completely wrong dude.

Actually with the new merger it would make it an opening playing field for all residencies, meaning DO's wont get the residencies that are only allocated to them

Lol how naive... there will never be an open playing field. I know for a fact our specialty residencies will never consider a Carib grad. Ever.

Matter of fact 4 students from the last class at Ross matched into the ones I mentioned

Out of a class of 800 students....

Just want to clarify that the thread I linked and the NRMP PD report actually show that some programs in some specialties (I think ENT and neurosurg) apparently favor US IMG over DO (granted US IMG isn't the same as Carib since people can go to Duke-NUS and other programs).

See pg 94 for ENT and look for "Percentage of Programs that Typically Interview and Rank Each Applicant Type": http://www.nrmp.org/wp-content/uploads/2016/09/NRMP-2016-Program-Director-Survey.pdf

I can understand the frustration since the data don't agree with what we think happens, and personally for me, this is upsetting since I didn't expect programs to be so strongly influenced by letters after someone's name that they would consider a US IMG over DO. It's irritating but life isn't fair and PDs are subject to biases and elitism. That's why as much as I want to agree with the claim that programs never favor IMGs over DOs, the reality sadly disagrees.

True, however I want to know when the last time a US IMG matched UPenn ENT.

How would taking a transitional year affect my chances? My friend's sister went to St. George's did a transitiona year and ended up doing her ENT residency at Tulane then did a fellow at Hopkins

Dude you need to get this in your head, if you go Carib you will be lucky to match at all to a field of low competitiveness. You need to get this fantasy out of your head that you will somehow be the exception that manages to get a competitive field

http://www.nrmp.org/wp-content/uploads/2018/06/Charting-Outcomes-in-the-Match-2018-IMGs.pdf

Read this report. It isn’t pretty.

 

[Lawpy]

True, however I want to know when the last time a US IMG matched UPenn ENT.

I don't know. Good news though: one of their PGY-1s is a DO: Current Residents – Department of Otorhinolaryngology – Head & Neck Surgery

 

[AnatomyGrey12]

Just want to clarify that the thread I linked and the NRMP PD report actually show that some programs in some specialties (I think ENT and neurosurg) apparently favor US IMG over DO (granted US IMG isn't the same as Carib since people can go to Duke-NUS and other programs).

See pg 94 for ENT and look for "Percentage of Programs that Typically Interview and Rank Each Applicant Type": http://www.nrmp.org/wp-content/uploads/2016/09/NRMP-2016-Program-Director-Survey.pdf

I can understand the frustration since the data don't agree with what we think happens, and personally for me, this is upsetting since I didn't expect programs to be so strongly influenced by letters after someone's name that they would consider a US IMG over DO. It's irritating but life isn't fair and PDs are subject to biases and elitism. That's why as much as I want to agree with the claim that programs never favor IMGs over DOs, the reality sadly disagrees.

I also want to add that I have a hunch that there are other variables at work with some of these surveys. I know for a fact there were multiple DOs this year with 10+ MD ENT interviews and all the ones I know of matched in the AOA match which means we’ll never know what could have been (outside of UPenn lol) but I highly doubt that there are multiple Carib grads with 10+ ENT interviews. I suspect a number of these program directors literally never see DO apps and so they just click the box they never interview or rank them and that is why we see the numbers that we do.

I don't know. Good news though: one of their PGY-1s is a DO: Current Residents – Department of Otorhinolaryngology – Head & Neck Surgery

Haha I know, that’s why I said that.

 

[Lawpy]

I also want to add that I have a hunch that there are other variables at work with some of these surveys. I know for a fact there were multiple DOs this year with 10+ MD ENT interviews and all the ones I know of matched in the AOA match which means we’ll never know what could have been (outside of UPenn lol) but I highly doubt that there are multiple Carib grads with 10+ ENT interviews. I suspect a number of these program directors literally never see DO apps and so they just click the box they never interview or rank them and that is why we see the numbers that we do.



Haha I know, that’s why I said that.

You're probably right. Also, US IMG isn't necessarily Carib and I think students from special programs like Duke-NUS play a role. I couldn't find Carib-specific data so not sure. The NRMP PD survey may not be giving a completely accurate picture so that's probably good news.

I wish programs got rid of that stupid LCME filter.

 

[AnatomyGrey12]

You're probably right. Also, US IMG isn't necessarily Carib and I think students from special programs like Duke-NUS play a role. I couldn't find Carib-specific data so not sure. The NRMP PD survey may not be giving a completely accurate picture so that's probably good news.

I wish programs got rid of that stupid LCME filter.

I wouldn’t be surprised if it did with the merger now seeing as we are literally forced to apply to ACGME programs. Or see it become an LCME/COCA filter.

Honestly as far as DO matching goes we will never be on par with US MDs, and I am personally ok with that, but every year DOs match better and better and that is encouraging. The amount of “wow” matches is almost to the point where every school has one or two instead of there only being a handful across all schools. The trend that I am currently seeing happen is that the DO students who are able to look like their MD counterparts on paper tend to match more like one.

I also think IMGs really are in trouble with the ever increasing number of US MD and DO students. Hence OP, why you really need to do an SMP or post bac. Even if you can get into a DO school the climb is less steep to competitive specialties there than from the islands. A solid SMP performance could land you the US MD which would do wonders for your goals.

 

[LebronManning]

I also think IMGs really are in trouble with the ever increasing number of US MD and DO students.

I believe residency spots are now starting to also expand along with this value. Ultimately, something like 30% of US residency spots still goes to IMGs every year so there is actually always going to be a need for IMGs. Still agree that most students should try for DO schools rather than international, barring its some unique international opportunity like Duke-NUS

 

[AlbinoHawk DO]

Lol how will the upcoming merger make it harder for IMGs to match anything? There will actually be more residency spots open to US MD/IMG than there were before since the former DO only programs will be open to everyone. DOs have already been able to apply and match MD residencies. Thus, there will actually be more spots for IMGs. The people that are getting shafted are actually DOs because now you lose the only way they matched competitive specialties: programs that only take DOs.

The problem with your logic is that the students that were interested in competitive things like ortho, ophtho, derm, etc. would only apply AOA and thus never be seen by the ACGME world. This was an almost guaranteed way to match. Now these same students who are the types to have 270s (yes, a classmate had 270 and went to AOA ortho because ortho) will be putting their application into the ACGME pool. Previously if you were unable to match AOA competitive specialty you simply went to your backup specialty on ACGME. This is now going to change the landscape. DOs may get shafted, but they may also end up impressing someone in the ACGME world. Besides, you'd be surprised how many MDs now have children or other family members that are DOs. The bias is not what it used to be.

Also, FMG and IMG are different things. Sure, Oxford trained FMG will probably be seen/preferred by CT surgery over DO from alabama COM, but those are rare and far in between scenarios.

 

[FrkyBgStok]

People also need to keep in mind that some of the AOA programs aren’t becoming ACGME accredited for various reason. So what might have been 1000 spots is dropping to 700. So those 300 residents will go to acgme programs. Couple that with COCA opening more DO schools in general, there will be more total people for less total spots. So yes, it will be harder for IMGs in the future.

 

[Dwan]

There are a lot of IMGs at the top IM programs that don't take DOs, particularly among the fellowships. I think a big reason for this is they tend to have insane amounts of research (compared to typical US graduates).
Cardiology Fellows

 

[Dwan]

There's one IMG at this program. There are lots of FMGs. Huge difference.

Those FMGs are IMGs... I never specified US-IMG.

 

[studentdocftw]

Don't go to a Caribbean school..you are starting to close the door before you've even started. Why limit your options so early on in the game? Take your time...improve the GPA and get into US MD, especially since you are apparently set for Ortho. Can you match Ortho from the Caribbean? Sure, but it is much more difficult and why make it harder on yourself to match an already competitive specialty?

 

[Ho0v-man]

Million $ Mistake

The guy in this blog had a very competitive app, even by ortho standards and ended up in community IM. You could do a post-bacc and probably get into a US MD school. You’ve got a good mcat, but don’t delude yourself into thinking that will definitely translate to being one of the top students in your class. There are people in my class with similar scores in the bottom quartile. Being one of the top IMGs to apply for the match is going to put you on about the same footing as a slightly above average US MD.

I don’t care about getting into the Carib-DO nonsense. I just want to definitely make sure I told you that you’re making a mistake. Good luck with whatever you choose.

 

[LebronManning]

The problem with your logic is that the students that were interested in competitive things like ortho, ophtho, derm, etc. would only apply AOA and thus never be seen by the ACGME world. This was an almost guaranteed way to match. Now these same students who are the types to have 270s (yes, a classmate had 270 and went to AOA ortho because ortho) will be putting their application into the ACGME pool. Previously if you were unable to match AOA competitive specialty you simply went to your backup specialty on ACGME. This is now going to change the landscape. DOs may get shafted, but they may also end up impressing someone in the ACGME world. Besides, you'd be surprised how many MDs now have children or other family members that are DOs. The bias is not what it used to be.

Also, FMG and IMG are different things. Sure, Oxford trained FMG will probably be seen/preferred by CT surgery over DO from alabama COM, but those are rare and far in between scenarios.

You bring up a good point, I never thought about that dynamic. But in the case you bring up (270 Step 1, great research, etc), I think even a US IMG from Europe or Australia would be able to match surgical subs. Some PDs will continue to have a greater DO bias than IMG bias. However, the Caribbean bias, is something different entirely.

 

[libertyyne]

There is 95+ % chance you will graduate and land a residency from a US MD school. there is probably 90+% chance you will do the same from a DO school. There is probably 50+% chance you will do so from a Caribbean school. This alone is enough to deter going to Caribbean.
Now at any given MD school the % of the class of matching into some of these competitive specialties is 1-10%. its probably 1-5% for DO'so and more like .5-1% for Caribbean students.

Competition is fierce for these positions, having the numbers helps but having connections and research and letters and home programs helps too. If you are sure you want a competitive field you should take the time and try to get into a US MD school.

There will be anecdotes abound about Caribbean students matching into these specialties. However, the problem is you have no idea what their app had, what their connections were etc. There were 100X more US md's matching in Neurosurgery compared to US-IMG but there were only 4 times as many total USMDs compared to US IMG applicants. That is all the information a reasonable person would need to come to the conclusion that going to the Caribbean and trying to match a competitive specialty is more like a lottery where the odds are stacked against you. Couple that with the fact that there is a significant risk you might not even be able to complete your education and match at all.

 

[Oso]

I know people from Caribbean schools that have matched into ENT, Derm, Optho, Ortho, etc. Obviously I know its very competitive but to say it's impossible is a complete fallacy. Matter of fact 4 students from the last class at Ross matched into the ones I mentioned

... good luck... make sure to update us in 4 years

 

[libertyyne]

I know people from Caribbean schools that have matched into ENT, Derm, Optho, Ortho, etc. Obviously I know its very competitive but to say it's impossible is a complete fallacy. Matter of fact 4 students from the last class at Ross matched into the ones I mentioned

4 people out of 600 matches out of 1200~ students that started. .6% or realistically incorporating attrition . 3%. Also how many of them had family connections at those programs or hospitals?

 

[Med Ed]

I really want to go into orthopedic surgery

Of course you do.

The publication you should be poring over is the 2018 Charting Outcomes in the Match for IMGs. Although it will probably make depressing reading. For US-IMGs (which would include you):

Orthopedic surgery - 9 matched, 13 unmatched
General surgery - 61 matched, 122 unmatched
Neurologic surgery - 0 matched, 7 unmatched
Dermatology - too few to show data

Please note, these numbers do not include individuals who do not submit a rank list because they receive no interview offers.

Your position that you are too tired/burned out to pursue a post-bacc/SMP but ready and able to slay medical school makes no sense. Your entire professional career rests on the choice you make now. Caveat emptor.

 

[Gurby]

Those FMGs are IMGs... I never specified US-IMG.

The wikipedia article for "international medical graduate" makes it sound like they are trying to get rid of the term "FMG", so maybe you are grammatically correct here. But in this context it's extremely misleading to lump non-US-IMG's (what most of the Hopkins cardiology fellows are) in with US-IMG's (what OP from this thread would be).

 

[rg2o3]

Honestly OP, check the charting outcomes. Does that not terrify you? Even as a student going DO, it scares me. Even if I were going MD, the chance of not matching (so minimal) would scare me. We all think we won’t be the ones, but everyone thinks that, and it still happens. Why would you choose a path that has the highest risk by a long shot? Why not take a year, do a postbacc and apply DO? You say you want to leave your town, so do one that’s away from your town..

 

[Matthew9Thirtyfive]

there is probably 90+% chance you will do the same from a DO school.

I looked at the numbers for the last ten years a while ago, and it was like 94-95%.

 

[Newyawk]

Just to add a personal perspective:
At a top US MD school with excellent home programs. Students who score >250 with good grades STILL take research years bc they are not competitive enough to match at the region of their choice. They also still are upset they didnt break a 260, didnt get an H in their field of choice, etc, etc.
Unless you have excellent connections i would assume its damn near impossible to even land an interview from an IMG program let alone a caribbean school.

 

[Goro]

You have way too much energy at this time of night. Why don’t you matriculate into a Foreign medical school, and test this theory out yourself I would love to see the outcome

Lawper is not an IMG apologist. If you look at the PD survey, there are PDs that do prefer IMGs over DO... these tend to be in some of the more competitive specialties. But overall, the most IMG friendly residencies are in:
Neurology
Psychiatry
Pathology
Family Medicine
Internal Medicine

Gee, just like for DOs!

But overall, the environment is far better for DOs than MDs.

 

[Snoopy2006]

Like I said I know it's very competitive for top-tier residences such as derm, gen surg, and neuro, but I have no other intention in these upcoming 4 years besides to pledge my absolute and complete effort into at the minimum being competitive for top tier residencies at at least mid-level programs. Realistically I know I would at least need a step score of at least 250 to even take a peak at my application.

I don't think that's realistic at all. To put it in perspective: I did my intern year with grads from Ross, Saba, and St. George, and I know other people from St. Kitts and AUC. Most of them scored 240+ to get into low-level community IM programs. I don't think a 250 is getting you a peek at the vast majority of derm, neurosurg, or ortho residencies. I can't speak for gen surg.

Another point of reference: I'm a resident in a competitive field. Every year 99% of the applicants we interview are US grads with 250+ on their Step 1s. The rare interviewee in the 240s is a stellar rotating medical student. When you have so many high scoring US grads, all Caribbean and DO apps are disregarded, regardless of their Step 1 score. Fair or not, that's how the system works in the majority of places.

Yes, there are always anecdotal cases of people matching into competitive fields. I know of 3 cases (secondhand) and in each there was special circumstances - a personal connection, or a research fellowship that really let the applicant develop connections with the program. Yes, these stories are anecdotal, but the trend (backed by the Charting the Match data) is clear.

The reason people around here get frustrated with posts like this: we're trying to save you from yourself, and almost always, the OP doesn't listen. You don't have the "mental capacity" to stay and do a short post-bacc, but you think you're going to be the one out of 300 Caribbean grads who matches ortho? You realize you might have to spend a few years doing ortho research on the back end trying to match? And even that would be with no guarantee. It would be a much smarter time investment do do the post-bacc and go through the proper route.

This is what people mean when they call the Caribbean a shortcut. You have the MCAT for medical school. All you need to do spend the time to correct the 1 major flaw in your application.

If you do decide to go to the Caribbean, by all means try to network and get research in ortho-related fields, but realize there's a near-certainty your time spent on that research will be futile. Make sure you're comfortable with FM, neurology, IM before you go abroad.

Think very, very carefully before you decide.

 

[TheRealCookieMonster]

To be honest I don't want to wait another year and do a post-bacc I just want to start over with my life and far away from my current situation as possible, I don't have the mental capacitance to deal with it anymore and I know if I stay I will eventually end up burning out and losing my mind.

I strongly suspect that this is why Carib schools get roasted along with their applicants... Because people who go there are impatient or inexperienced. I also suspect that the earlier chatter about DOs is going to wreck Caribbean grads. It seems like the AACOM was able to convince the AGME to merge all the residencies putting DOs and MDs closer and closer. Residencies are not expanding fast enough to accommodate everyone and the DOs feel like they can play ball. If I imagine someone selecting candidates from an excess of residents I'm going to eliminate the most volatile. So that I am only left with safe choices. The strength of being from the Caribbean and overcoming adversity is being outplayed by the consistency and recognition of DOs. If you are strong enough or smart enough to beat the odds in a Caribbean school you should have just used the "respectable" options that lead to MD and DO in the states. You can lose dude, even if you do it all right. Your experience (2.8gpa) should show you how clearly you can lose and the carib seems to help most people get there.



TLDR: There's really no way to look at going Carib without it looking like a huge expensive miserable mistake. At minimum making your life harder.

 

[atomi]

An undergrad GPA of 2.8 combined with your demonstrated attitude to want to do things the quick and easy way suggest that you do not have the study skills and willpower to succeed in medical school. You are at a very high risk for failing out, let alone passing the USMLE, again let alone matching to residency, and again let alone a competitive residency. Caribbean medical schools have a tendancy to string students along who have little chance of obtaining residency or even passing the USMLE, making them repeat classes/years, etc. to suck more tuition money out of them. You may spend a few years though before they dismiss you and you find yourself back in the states with no degree, no residency, a ruined educational record (i.e., no chance to ever try again properly in the US when you are older and smarter), and owing $200k or more than will accrue interest for the rest of your life that you will never be able to pay back.

If mom and dad are paying for it all and you don't care about setting their money on fire, sure go nuts.
If you're borrowing, please bookmark this thread and come back and post in 4 years and let us know how it worked out.

 

[TheRealCookieMonster]

If you're borrowing, please bookmark this thread and come back and post in 4 years and let us know how it worked out.

 

[UnoMas]

Everyone's mother and their dog set out to score 250+ on Step 1 and then 1 week before the actual Step 1 date, you'll be like 'I'm willing to trade my left nut for a 228." Not speaking from personal experience or anything

What's the point of asking people if you already have your mind set and so many close and personal success stories? I say go for it. Come back and tell us off in 4 years. Good luck! You'll need something close to a miracle for Ortho.