I am currently taking my prereq. for nursing and mcat at the same time. I will be transferring to a uni. for my BSN next year. I am torn between two schools. One of the school which is Jefferson University has a medical school and will be much easier and reasonable to get into their program if I graduate from their nursing program with all the mcat prereqs done as well. However, I its about an hour and a half from where I lijve without traffic. Three hours with traffic plus its expensive. the other school is cedar crest college and I have been accepted into it. My only problem is, it is not well known and scared it my affect my chances of getting into medical school. My question is, does it really matter where you get your undergraduate from. I have a GPA of 3.8 and determine to maintain or improve upon it. Advice needed. comments welcomed
Torn between two schools
- Thread starter Jeremens
- Start date
- Joined
- Sep 18, 2013
- Messages
- 8,177
- Reaction score
- 11,612
You would be commuting to Jeff? That long commute alone tells you not to attend there.
A lesser known school won't hurt you, just do well in your courses and ace the MCAT. The rest won't matter as much as you think.
Also, attending an UG that has a medical school generally means nothing in terms of admission. (unless you're Brown)
- Joined
- Oct 31, 2006
- Messages
- 7,506
- Reaction score
- 2,715
Your backup plan (nursing) is crushing your presumed real plan (med school).
Studying nursing with no intent to practice as a nurse is not going to endear you to the medical professionals on med school admissions committees. You're not buying yourself any advantage by studying nursing. No, Jeff will not look favorably on its own nursing students as candidates for its med school.
Several years in practice as a nurse is a fantastic background before med school, for those who really want to be a nurse and then change their mind later.
Best of luck to you.
Studying nursing with no intent to practice as a nurse is not going to endear you to the medical professionals on med school admissions committees. You're not buying yourself any advantage by studying nursing. No, Jeff will not look favorably on its own nursing students as candidates for its med school.
Several years in practice as a nurse is a fantastic background before med school, for those who really want to be a nurse and then change their mind later.
Best of luck to you.
- Joined
- Oct 31, 2006
- Messages
- 7,506
- Reaction score
- 2,715
BTW, double check the science classes you're taking. The nursing prereqs are frequently not the same classes as the med school prereqs. The issue is whether you're learning the material that's tested on the MCAT, that you're assumed to have learned before med school.
- Joined
- Jun 21, 2012
- Messages
- 468
- Reaction score
- 357
Going to Jeff for nursing school is unlikely to confer an advantage for getting into their med school. Taking a spot in a higher quality BSN program when you are already making it clear you intend to pursue medicine (by taking med prereqs & the mcat) will rub some people the wrong way & work against you at some institutions.
I am currently taking organic chemistry and calculus. I intend to take physics next semester. So I am actually taking courses that will help me take the mcat.
Thanks for the advice. I was thinking of getting my BSN and working for a year or two to gain experience. While working I will be shadowing some doctors and saving some money while preparing for the mcat. Thanks again for your advice.
- Joined
- Dec 18, 2011
- Messages
- 1,690
- Reaction score
- 1,373
^That's not how it works with your shadowing and you are taking the extra long route in doing so. Granted, there are benefits to this plan, but overall there are more cons. You're probably going to get your BSN anyway, but to answer your question though, no one cares where you went as long you have something on your resume, interview well, and passed your NCLEX.
- Joined
- Oct 31, 2006
- Messages
- 7,506
- Reaction score
- 2,715
Your answer does not inspire confidence. There may be nursing/PA/PT versions of those classes, and separate premed/predent versions. You implied earlier that you're not now at a university, which makes it much more likely that you're not taking premed coursework.
Thanks Dr.Midlife for your comment. I am trying to find the best way to support my family while fulfilling my dream. I have researched and even talked to certain medical school professors about my situation. One recommended this network to me and the other suggested his route which is what I am taking right now. I will appreciate it if you could be able to advice me on what to do. the plan was to get an undergraduate degree and work to support the family while I prepare for med school since I am the soul provider of my family. I know its a long route but I am willing to take it. Am I making the right decision? Are there other alternatives? Do I need to go through a post bac. programme although I amn taking most of the prereqs. now. Will appreciate everyone's view.
- Joined
- Dec 18, 2011
- Messages
- 1,690
- Reaction score
- 1,373
If you need the money short-term then there's nothing you can do. You say you still need physics and you're taking ochem, which means you haven't taken biochem and possibly the psych/sociology classes for the new MCAT. I don't advise you trying to fit this in while in nursing school, but I've read about people doing this. You won't need a post-bac if you finish your prereqs and have a bachelor's. but you can't ignore other parts of your application such as shadowing, volunteering, and letters of recommendation.
- Joined
- Oct 31, 2006
- Messages
- 7,506
- Reaction score
- 2,715
First, if you have been advised to study nursing on your way to med school, then one of two things happened:
1. you got advice from somebody who has no business offering advice, because that's just bad advice.
2. you presented your complex situation to somebody who doesn't have the time or experience to advise you.
A competent premed adviser can handle this: "I'm a traditional 19 year old university bio major with a good GPA and I want to go to med school. What should I be doing?"
What nobody can handle is this: "I want to go to med school. I need to provide for my family during the years I'll be training for my career. Also I am risk averse; since there's no guarantee I'll get into med school I want my training to have a rational plan B. I have already decided to study nursing as plan B. How do I manage my transition from community college to university?"
So: break it down.
Before you load your family and your risk aversion and your nursing scheme and your current course schedule onto your ambition to be a doctor, just look at what it takes to be a doctor. Understand the normal pathway to becoming a doctor before you try to modify that pathway to suit your requirements.
Specifically:
1. Pick a med school. Study their admissions website. Read the FAQ. Do this for at least 2 MD schools and 1 DO school. Compare/contrast the required coursework, because it varies by med school. Trust nobody to explain the med school requirements to you. Be the grownup in charge of this. Pay attention to advice in the FAQ about community college coursework.
2. Pick a university. Study their premed advising web page. Take note of the basic course sequences for premeds. Find the syllabi or detailed course descriptions for the med school prereqs and get familiar with them.
3. Now look at the courses at your current (community?) college. Try to find a pre-health advising page, if there is one, that explains which courses to take if you want to go to med school vs. if you want to do nursing.
4. Now go try to find the community college transfer page on the university's website, and see what your community college courses will transfer as. Some universities figure this out for you, others make you litigate your transferred coursework.
THEN
5. If you still think nursing is how you want to get into med school, compare and contrast those courses with what you learned above, and figure out if you can realistically be both pre-nursing and pre-med, or not. Or, just focus on nursing and exit this list.
THEN (if you still want to be a doctor)
6. Agonize and lose sleep and talk things over with your spouse. Think hard about whether you have a good plan or not. (Pretty much do this every day for the rest of your life.)
THEN
7. Ask clarifying questions on SDN.
THEN
8. For best results, get straight A's, and if you can't get straight A's, take fewer classes. A's open doors. Non-A's close them.
Best of luck to you.
Last edited:
Jeremens, there are tons of posts/threads on what you are asking--or at least relate strongly to what you are asking.
OK, I am a critical care RN w/ a BSN. I have A LOT of nursing experience. That's great. It may be helpful. But I didn't know 20 some years ago that I would strongly want to pursue medicine or that it was even feasible for me. In fact, I really didn't get that I wanted it until I practiced in specialized areas, and it was suggested to me by, in fact, physicians. Again, I didn't think it was feasible. Having children, then dealing with things like terminally and critically ill family members happened. Life happened. And, you know, t's impossible to say I would change X, Y, and Z in my life, when in fact, there are good things--however stressful-- that come from the experiences--like having children. It's often futile to second guess your life choices. You just accept them and hopefully are thankful for them, and then you move forward.
Is it possible to complete the BSN, work, and take pre-med courses.? Sure it is. It's not easy, and it's risky, but it's possible. Still, it's such a major endeavor to get into med school-especially as a non-trad--and then of course it's a challenge to get through it and residency. (At least it is for a number of non-trads--d/t having strong responsibility for other people and things in your already well-established life.)
Here's the thing. Depending on what area you want to work in in nursing, well, the beginning years can be hard in a number of ways. I have seen this for many people. It may be that you will not have developed enough time/experience to move from novice nurse to expert nurse--and that can make a big difference. You really need to put yourself into excelling in your area of nursing practice. You will be put under the gun. You will have to work A LOT of off-shift (in most cases) and WE's and holidays. You will have, in most cases, limited control over your work schedule. Rotations, for example, can make going to your pre-med classes quite challenging. (That is, if you have not completed them already--and if you have, then it looks to adcoms like you intentionally took nursing w/o a serious commitment to the field. This seems risky, and there are so many applicants already. You have to do all you can to try to work the numbers in your favor.)
OK, so if you don't do all the pre-reqs while in nursing school, you may well be rotating 12 hours nights to days about every two weeks (for many hospitals--not all but a lot--and it depends on the particular unit too). Work it out in Excel or even on scrap paper. Make a schedule of this kind of shiftwork, and then look at how challenging it will be to make every pre-med class/lab. Even if you work all night and go to morning labs, you get home. OK. Then you try to catch a few hours sleep to do it all over again in a few short hours. It's challenging.
You will not, more than likely, get to work per diem without having strong experience (years) in the area you choose to work. Eg., many EDs or say NICUs want no less than 2 or 3 years full-time experience in those areas--and they want you to stay current. Even then you won't be considered expert--and this limits your ability to get a more workable schedule for school. Don't count on a Baylor program either. Many hospitals and organizations have gotten away from giving nurses the opportunity to work weekends and get full-time pay and benefits doing so. Much has changed in nursing since 2008. You might get lucky, but I'm telling you; the opportunities are NOTHING like when I got out of nursing school.
Another option might be homecare, but besides the fact that insurance companies are balking at paying and limiting coverage for this area, nurses, in general, unless they are in leadership positions, do not make the same as nurses in the hospital. On top of that, insurance coverage gets pulled or denied many times--or a sick patient is admitted to the hospital and the nurses lose hours.
No one can tell you what to do, and I won't even try to do so. I'm just thinking you should listen to those above that have tried to counsel you in this regard--especially if they have already have done or are doing medical school.
But I also think you need to work and get strong experience in nursing for a number of years even before you consider application to medical school. Making you two goals merge is going to be more challenging than you may think. Research, think, and carefully plan what is required.
OK, I am a critical care RN w/ a BSN. I have A LOT of nursing experience. That's great. It may be helpful. But I didn't know 20 some years ago that I would strongly want to pursue medicine or that it was even feasible for me. In fact, I really didn't get that I wanted it until I practiced in specialized areas, and it was suggested to me by, in fact, physicians. Again, I didn't think it was feasible. Having children, then dealing with things like terminally and critically ill family members happened. Life happened. And, you know, t's impossible to say I would change X, Y, and Z in my life, when in fact, there are good things--however stressful-- that come from the experiences--like having children. It's often futile to second guess your life choices. You just accept them and hopefully are thankful for them, and then you move forward.
Is it possible to complete the BSN, work, and take pre-med courses.? Sure it is. It's not easy, and it's risky, but it's possible. Still, it's such a major endeavor to get into med school-especially as a non-trad--and then of course it's a challenge to get through it and residency. (At least it is for a number of non-trads--d/t having strong responsibility for other people and things in your already well-established life.)
Here's the thing. Depending on what area you want to work in in nursing, well, the beginning years can be hard in a number of ways. I have seen this for many people. It may be that you will not have developed enough time/experience to move from novice nurse to expert nurse--and that can make a big difference. You really need to put yourself into excelling in your area of nursing practice. You will be put under the gun. You will have to work A LOT of off-shift (in most cases) and WE's and holidays. You will have, in most cases, limited control over your work schedule. Rotations, for example, can make going to your pre-med classes quite challenging. (That is, if you have not completed them already--and if you have, then it looks to adcoms like you intentionally took nursing w/o a serious commitment to the field. This seems risky, and there are so many applicants already. You have to do all you can to try to work the numbers in your favor.)
OK, so if you don't do all the pre-reqs while in nursing school, you may well be rotating 12 hours nights to days about every two weeks (for many hospitals--not all but a lot--and it depends on the particular unit too). Work it out in Excel or even on scrap paper. Make a schedule of this kind of shiftwork, and then look at how challenging it will be to make every pre-med class/lab. Even if you work all night and go to morning labs, you get home. OK. Then you try to catch a few hours sleep to do it all over again in a few short hours. It's challenging.
You will not, more than likely, get to work per diem without having strong experience (years) in the area you choose to work. Eg., many EDs or say NICUs want no less than 2 or 3 years full-time experience in those areas--and they want you to stay current. Even then you won't be considered expert--and this limits your ability to get a more workable schedule for school. Don't count on a Baylor program either. Many hospitals and organizations have gotten away from giving nurses the opportunity to work weekends and get full-time pay and benefits doing so. Much has changed in nursing since 2008. You might get lucky, but I'm telling you; the opportunities are NOTHING like when I got out of nursing school.
Another option might be homecare, but besides the fact that insurance companies are balking at paying and limiting coverage for this area, nurses, in general, unless they are in leadership positions, do not make the same as nurses in the hospital. On top of that, insurance coverage gets pulled or denied many times--or a sick patient is admitted to the hospital and the nurses lose hours.
No one can tell you what to do, and I won't even try to do so. I'm just thinking you should listen to those above that have tried to counsel you in this regard--especially if they have already have done or are doing medical school.
But I also think you need to work and get strong experience in nursing for a number of years even before you consider application to medical school. Making you two goals merge is going to be more challenging than you may think. Research, think, and carefully plan what is required.
Last edited:
Thanks a lot for the detailed elaboration on what to do. I guess I got the wrong advice or overwhelmed my advisors. I will spend more time researching and thinking about the appropriate route rather than taking what seems to be the "easy" route. I am very passionate about pursuing a medical career. I don't intend to give up and would not let anything deter me. I know it is a very stressful path, however, my personal experience which keeps fuelling my desire to pursue this field will not let me rest until I achieve my ultimate goal. Thanks again and hope I could pm you if I need other advice since you already in the field.
Thanks for your advice. I have already taking two semesters of psych and one semester of sociology. I am yet to take Biochem. Thanks for your advice.
- Joined
- Feb 2, 2011
- Messages
- 8,066
- Reaction score
- 7,649
Don't do nursing if you know you don't want to practice as a nurse. It's a huge waste of time.
Nursing is a great profession, but if you already have a different end goal, then why take such a weird round about way to get even halfway there.
Nursing is a great profession, but if you already have a different end goal, then why take such a weird round about way to get even halfway there.
- Joined
- Nov 14, 2008
- Messages
- 876
- Reaction score
- 136
OP, see an advisor at your college and make sure that the science classes you are taking are the acceptable pre-med & science major level courses, not the watered down versions which are acceptable for nursing and other health programs (that being said, I don't recall an organic chemistry or calculus for nursing or other health programs because those health programs did not require such courses, but do double check).
I am a non-trad who chose the non-science major that I did because I needed a solid backup plan to support my family in case my plans for medical school did not work out. I did well on the science classes that I took, did well on the MCAT, was honest about why I chose my major on my applications, and I received multiple acceptances just fine. I didn't go into nursing because the BSN programs in my area are notoriously difficult to maintain a high gpa in. I did end up having to spend an extra year in undergrad though to fit in all of the pre-reason and some upper level bio courses (there was very little overlap with my major).
I may have the minority opinion here, but I believe that if you are able to maintain a high gpa in your pre-reqs and in nursing school, and obtain a high MCAT score, then I believe that the "major doesn't matter" idea in medical school admissions extends to nursing as well. According to https://www.aamc.org/download/321496/data/2013factstable18.pdf "Specialized Health Sciences" majors (I believe this is where BSNs would fall) had a 32.6% matriculation rate. This is lower than the 41.1% for Bio majors. However, the average total MCAT score of specialized health science majors applicants was 25.6 whereas that of the bio applicants was 28.2. The corresponding numbers in the case of matriculants are 29.8 and 31.1 respectively. The GPAs of applicants vs matriculants were comparable for both majors in both cases. This leads me to believe that the lower acceptance rate of specialized health sciences majors may have had something to do with the fact that the MCAT scores of their applicants were, on average, 2.6 points below their bio major counterparts as opposed to their major. But I am not an ADCOM member, and I do not know how ADCOM members on all the different medical school ADCOMs across the US think, so I cannot say that for sure.
Good luck.
I am a non-trad who chose the non-science major that I did because I needed a solid backup plan to support my family in case my plans for medical school did not work out. I did well on the science classes that I took, did well on the MCAT, was honest about why I chose my major on my applications, and I received multiple acceptances just fine. I didn't go into nursing because the BSN programs in my area are notoriously difficult to maintain a high gpa in. I did end up having to spend an extra year in undergrad though to fit in all of the pre-reason and some upper level bio courses (there was very little overlap with my major).
I may have the minority opinion here, but I believe that if you are able to maintain a high gpa in your pre-reqs and in nursing school, and obtain a high MCAT score, then I believe that the "major doesn't matter" idea in medical school admissions extends to nursing as well. According to https://www.aamc.org/download/321496/data/2013factstable18.pdf "Specialized Health Sciences" majors (I believe this is where BSNs would fall) had a 32.6% matriculation rate. This is lower than the 41.1% for Bio majors. However, the average total MCAT score of specialized health science majors applicants was 25.6 whereas that of the bio applicants was 28.2. The corresponding numbers in the case of matriculants are 29.8 and 31.1 respectively. The GPAs of applicants vs matriculants were comparable for both majors in both cases. This leads me to believe that the lower acceptance rate of specialized health sciences majors may have had something to do with the fact that the MCAT scores of their applicants were, on average, 2.6 points below their bio major counterparts as opposed to their major. But I am not an ADCOM member, and I do not know how ADCOM members on all the different medical school ADCOMs across the US think, so I cannot say that for sure.
Good luck.
Last edited:
- Joined
- Dec 18, 2011
- Messages
- 1,690
- Reaction score
- 1,373
^Yep, while nursing students are learning patho, pharm, nursing theories, and rotating through OB, peds, psych, and other rotations, the average junior will be taking upper level STEM classes that prepares them for the MCAT. This was a con I've experienced first hand. And like I said above, it's not typical to supplement your nursing courses with pre-med courses without being a beastly student in the first place.
Th
I am grateful for your advice. Really appreciate it.
