toxinology question--anybody got good references?

[banana k]

sorry to start begging results advice on here but i'm at kind of a loss for expertise. (consequences of studying in the absolute boondocks.) i have a pharmacology question... i've been injecting a bunch of fish with box jellyfish venom and measuring resulting changes in cardiac function. REALLY REALLY unexpectedly, one group of fish is having a major decline in heart rate. this group of fish is getting dosed with a type of venom that's not very potent (on a dosage basis), so that's just plain weird. HOWEVER, because it's so less potent, the sheer size of doses that you have to give these fish in order to have any effect at all is just massive. as in, the animals are getting huge amounts of foreign protein. so what i'm wondering is whether the results i'm seeing are because of the pharmacological effects of the venom, or because of some immune response to that huge amount of protein.

i know this is a totally out there question! anyone got insight, or know of any precedents in in vitro stuff, or in human in vivo stuff? (example: if you dosed up a mammal with NO pre-existing allergy with a huge amount of non-toxic protein, such as BSA, would there be any immediate consequences to cardiac function?)

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[captaintripps]

sorry to start begging results advice on here but i'm at kind of a loss for expertise. (consequences of studying in the absolute boondocks.) i have a pharmacology question... i've been injecting a bunch of fish with box jellyfish venom and measuring resulting changes in cardiac function. REALLY REALLY unexpectedly, one group of fish is having a major decline in heart rate. this group of fish is getting dosed with a type of venom that's not very potent (on a dosage basis), so that's just plain weird. HOWEVER, because it's so less potent, the sheer size of doses that you have to give these fish in order to have any effect at all is just massive. as in, the animals are getting huge amounts of foreign protein. so what i'm wondering is whether the results i'm seeing are because of the pharmacological effects of the venom, or because of some immune response to that huge amount of protein.

i know this is a totally out there question! anyone got insight, or know of any precedents in in vitro stuff, or in human in vivo stuff? (example: if you dosed up a mammal with NO pre-existing allergy with a huge amount of non-toxic protein, such as BSA, would there be any immediate consequences to cardiac function?)

Just some speculation about your question: If the animal has not been sensitized to the foreign protein I wouldn't expect an immune response unless some chance of binding IgG. Another consideration, injecting a large dose of albumin may increase the intravascular volume (colloid osmotic) increasing venous return and stroke volume. Since cardiac output = stroke vol. X heart rate then increase S.V. ~ decrease H.R.. May not be on target but figured to suggest a mechanism.