Transferring back to Community college

[lollygagger]

Hey everyone,

I have a little situation, I just transferred from a community college to a university, and this is by far the worst semester I have ever had, and I'm pretty sure I'm failing everything and if I do, I would like to transfer back to community college...how would Pharm school view that?

Not because it's "easier."

I took Organic Chem 1 at community college, and the course was extremely challenging, but I had an amazing professor, so with hard work and long nights, and I managed to pull a B-.
I decided to transfer to a University because I received a full ride, this university has a pharm school I'd like to go to, and I felt pretty confident for the next level of Orgo, in fact I loved Organic Chem, so I'm here. I'm taking Orgo 2 and I'm doing horrible...absolutely horrible that I'm down right failing and I'm trying so hard. I also will probably get a C in Biology I because I neglect it for trying to do better in Orgo.
At this university they covered extra chapters in Orgo 1 than my CC class, and had a different curriculum. The stuff the university taught in Orgo 1 at the end of the semester, was the first thing my CC would teach in the beginning chapters of Orgo 2. So stuff like NMR and IR, epoxide reactions, and other stuff I never learned and it takes me a while to understand things..as we know Oranic Chem is a cumulative subject. I thought I could handle Orgo 2 and just try but there is something about my study habits that I keep failing, that I used to never encounter at CC.
I feel like my career goal of becoming of pharmacist or even getting into pharm school is slowly diminishing. I have never pulled all nighters before, until I came here, spending hours upon hours studying.

Also if I fail everything I'm pretty sure I'll lose my full ride, so another reason to go back to CC is because it's much cheaper. In fact the CC I went to had a Pre-Pharm program, where you take the pre-reqs and a PCAT prep course, and then apply for pharm school. I'm really kicking myself for not just staying there.


So all in all, my question is, if I were to fail Orgo 2, and stop attending university to go back to CC, and say I get an A/B in Orgo 2, how would pharm school view that?

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[TechthenpharmD]

I don't see why cc got such a bad rap I went to community college all my undergrad and would go back much cheaper then any university, wasn't once questioned about it at any interview. As long as you pass I don't see them having a problem just have an explanation for failing.

 

[DruggieDoRight]

CC gets a really bad rap for some reason, but at this point it is basically equivalent to many university level classes including some upper divisions like organic chemistry. I can tell you it shouldn't get you into too much trouble. I have my B.A. in Chem/Micro double major, and I can say from first hand experience finishing up prereqs that most of the classes you take in community college are just about the exact same you will see at a university. Just make sure you have good extracurriculars and try and get a lot of experience.

You can also offset some of the "oopsies" on your transcript by getting a good PCAT score. That's what I did.

 

[PharmStudentCO2018]

If it's open file they might ask why you did so. Other than that, it's not a big deal (imo.) Just depends on what schools you're looking at.

 

[MissJen]

If it's open file they might ask why you did so. Other than that, it's not a big deal (imo.) Just depends on what schools you're looking at.

Agreed. Some universities state in their requirements that they don't accept science courses from community colleges. Just check with the programs you are planning to apply to and make sure the credits are accepted.

 

[Verduchi]

Don't feel bad. It can be near impossible to take one half of orgo at one school and the other half at another. The professor at my school who had orgo students registered for the 2nd half of the course who took the first part at another school would tell those students to drop asap.

 

[oldstock]

Agreed. Some universities state in their requirements that they don't accept science courses from community colleges. Just check with the programs you are planning to apply to and make sure the credits are accepted.

what schools are they ?? If you don't mind saying a few names...

IIn my experience, pharmacy schools' adcoms might look down on community colleges but I have not seen any pharmacy school that said they would not accept courses or science courses from a community college. All of them that I saw said that they would accept courses from any US accredited college or university.

 

[MissJen]

what schools are they ?? If you don't mind saying a few names...

IIn my experience, pharmacy schools' adcoms might look down on community colleges but I have not seen any pharmacy school that said they would not accept courses or science courses from a community college. All of them that I saw said that they would accept courses from any US accredited college or university.

It's UNMC in Nebraska. They don't outright say they won't accept them but they limit the number of community college credits you are allowed to use and prefer that you use a four year university.

• Per UNMC policy, no more than 66 hours may be accepted from the community college level toward prerequisites.
• It is preferred by the Curriculum Committee of the UNMC COP that the following hours be completed at a 4-year institution vs. community college (especially in light of the limit on community college hours accepted)
  • Organic Chemistry (8 hours)
  • Biochemistry (3 hours)
  • Quantitative Chemical Analysis (4 hours)
  • Molecular Biology (3 hours)
  • Anatomy (4 hours) *
  • Physiology (4 hours) *

I've never heard of someone getting rejected from the school for taking ochem at a community college but I've never heard of anyone being accepted either.

 

[oldstock]

It's UNMC in Nebraska. They don't outright say they won't accept them but they limit the number of community college credits you are allowed to use and prefer that you use a four year university.

• Per UNMC policy, no more than 66 hours may be accepted from the community college level toward prerequisites.
• It is preferred by the Curriculum Committee of the UNMC COP that the following hours be completed at a 4-year institution vs. community college (especially in light of the limit on community college hours accepted)
  • Organic Chemistry (8 hours)
  • Biochemistry (3 hours)
  • Quantitative Chemical Analysis (4 hours)
  • Molecular Biology (3 hours)
  • Anatomy (4 hours) *
  • Physiology (4 hours) *

I've never heard of someone getting rejected from the school for taking ochem at a community college but I've never heard of anyone being accepted either.

For Quantitative Chemical Analysis, Molecular Bio, (or even Biochemistry), I do not think any CC is offering those courses anyway.

Imho, it is redundant to require Biochemistry as you are going to have to take Biochemistry as a P1 student anyway.

But why Quantitative Chemical Analysis is required for pharmacy school ?? This course is very specific for chemistry major though. Are their pharmacy school teaching something there that would require one to have this specific knowledge prior ?? They must be teaching something there that other pharmacy schools do not (I'm speculating.)

Most of other universities I know would only accept 60-70 credits from a CC/junior college. So it is not new.

But judging by the tone of UNMC above, I bet someone in the highest place there at the university do not have much love for CCs and probably has a degree in Chemistry I would steer clear

 

[KidPharmD]

For Quantitative Chemical Analysis, Molecular Bio, (or even Biochemistry), I do not think any CC is offering those courses anyway.

Imho, it is redundant to require Biochemistry as you are going to have to take Biochemistry as a P1 student anyway.

But why Quantitative Chemical Analysis is required for pharmacy school ?? This course is very specific for chemistry major though. Are their pharmacy school teaching something there that would require one to have this specific knowledge prior ?? They must be teaching something there that other pharmacy schools do not (I'm speculating.)

Most of other universities I know would only accept 60-70 credits from a CC/junior college. So it is not new.

But judging by the tone of UNMC above, I bet someone in the highest place there at the university do not have much love for CCs and probably has a degree in Chemistry I would steer clear

I had Quant and it was very helpful as a basis for good lab technique that translated to compounding. It also taught me to take excellent research notes. We also didn't have Biochem in pharmacy school.

 

[oldstock]

I had Quant and it was very helpful as a basis for good lab technique that translated to compounding. It also taught me to take excellent research notes. We also didn't have Biochem in pharmacy school.

what school did you go to if you do not mind telling? Your school is probably not UNMC right?

I guess, if one wanted too, they could say that every chemistry or biology class they took for their bachelor degree was useful in pharmacy schools. But if that is really needed, then ALL pharmacy schools in the US already require Quant Chem Anal as a prerequisite, do you agree? or that your school must have already required that course as a prerequisite? In my experience, my own kid brother who graduated pharmacy school with a PharmD degree via a 6 year program straight out from high school (Rho Chi blah blah blah) and has been working as both a clinical pharmacist and retailed for 8-9 years now never ever had Quant Chem Anal in his life.

seriously, did you mean that your school allowed you to opt out Biochem because you had a bachelor degree or advanced degree in Biochem/Chemistry instead? I honestly do not know any pharmacy school in the US which does not teach Biochem for P1. I do know that some schools allows students to opt out some courses if the students had an advanced degree in the subject or took an exam for a waiver.

Honestly, those sorts of requirements are only some artificial inflation by some schools to make themselves "special" imho. As for inflation, the sky is the limit, but at some points they all have to come back to earth, hopefully.

 

[MissJen]

One of the universities I interviewed with allowed you to use biochem from undergrad to get out if taking it your P1 year. You had to provide your syllabus, course description, etc... to see if they were comparable and if so then they waived it for you. A lot of the P1 and P2 students encouraged it because typically it's an easier course at the undergrad level than it is at the professional level your P1 year.

 

[oldstock]

One of the universities I interviewed with allowed you to use biochem from undergrad to get out if taking it your P1 year. You had to provide your syllabus, course description, etc... to see if they were comparable and if so then they waived it for you. A lot of the P1 and P2 students encouraged it because typically it's an easier course at the undergrad level than it is at the professional level your P1 year.

that is what I know too.

 

[Verduchi]

My community college I attended had a biochemistry class. It required one year of general chemistry as a pre-req, so don't know if it was like the same as most 4-year schools Bio. chem. Because at my 4-year school the pre-req is one year of both orgo and gen. chem not to mention a 5-hour long lab.

 

[oldstock]

My community college I attended had a biochemistry class. It required one year of general chemistry as a pre-req, so don't know if it was like the same as most 4-year schools Bio. chem. Because at my 4-year school the pre-req is one year of both orgo and gen. chem not to mention a 5-hour long lab.

I know some CCs are offering Biochem for nursing major, which is mostly a water-down version of a regular Biochem course at a 4 yr university. That might explain the pre-req of only 1 yr of gen chem. So my point is still that most (if not all) CCs are not offering Quantitative Chemical Analysis, Molecular Bio, and even Biochem.

 

[Verduchi]

That explains it as this is a recommended class for PA students

 

[KidPharmD]

University of Tennessee requires all students to take Biochem as a pre-req and does not teach it our P1 year. P1 classes are Intro to pharmacy, pharmaceutics, pharmacy math, pharmacology, and medicinal chemistry (with some other random things). We are one of the few that do this. UT requires no less than 3 years of pre-reqs in order to not have to teach some basic science classes. This translates into 18 months (2nd half of p3 year) of clinical rotations.

 

[oldstock]

University of Tennessee requires all students to take Biochem as a pre-req and does not teach it our P1 year. P1 classes are Intro to pharmacy, pharmaceutics, pharmacy math, pharmacology, and medicinal chemistry (with some other random things). We are one of the few that do this. UT requires no less than 3 years of pre-reqs in order to not have to teach some basic science classes. This translates into 18 months (2nd half of p3 year) of clinical rotations.

Thank you very much for that info! I did not know that.

my question is now that how much a pharmacy school think Biochem is important to their pharmacy curriculum to trust the difference in quality of all kinds of different undergrad Biochemistry courses out there and decide to / or not to incorporate Biochem in their pharmacy curriculum.

A fun thought : if we could do away with Biochem, I would imagine that we could do the same to all basic science courses such as Molecular Biology, Genetics, Physiology, (Medical) Microbiology / Immunology, Pathology, etc. and only teach pharmacy-specific courses in pharmacy schools. Why would one only stop at Biochem ??

I also would imagine that making pre-pharmay students to have to take all those basic science courses would give us several advantages. The process would weed out more weak students as those courses are upper-level courses which are getting harder. And because the fact is that those course are not offered at any CC and only at upper levels at 4-yr colleges or universities, this would eliminate most of the debate about CCs vs 4 yr universities as students have to take those courses at 4 yr colleges or universities anyway. In addition, most students would probably go ahead and earn a bachelor in biology or chemistry and that would further weed out more weak applicants and eliminate most of the risks of adcoms having to compare different majors (e.g. as even a person majoring in English has to take and earn a bulk of prereq almost the size of a bachelor degree in biology or chemistry. But the risks of comparing different schools still remain, i.e. the ranking ?? how ?? and to what standards ??).

This would either help pharmacy schools to devote more time into teaching / learning pharmacy-specific knowledge and/or shorten the time pharmacy students have to spend for pharmacy school education (this might save about a year time to down the time in pharmacy school now to about 3 years or less instead of 4 years ??) thus save the students a lot in terms of tuition paid at graduate / professional level. If it happened in the latter scenario, I would love it very much to pay less in total for my pharmacy school education !!

 

[KidPharmD]

Thank you very much for that info. I did not know that.

A fun thought: if we could do away with Biochem, I would imagine that we could do the same to all basic science courses such as Molecular Biology, Genetics, Physiology, (Medical) Microbiology / Immunology, Pathology, etc. and only teach pharmacy-specific courses in pharmacy schools. Why would one only stop at Biochem ??

Closest thing we had to any of the courses you listed was Pharmacogenetics/Pharmacogenomics. The majority of our students either had a B.S or more, or were part of a 3+1 program.

 

[oldstock]

Closest thing we had to any of the courses you listed was Pharmacogenetics/Pharmacogenomics. The majority of our students either had a B.S or more, or were part of a 3+1 program.

If this were the trend, in the future I see most, if not all, pharmacy schools would require not just a bachelor in anything but a bachelor degree in biology or biochemistry as prereq.

But probably most medical schools in the US would require a master degree or more in biological sciences for their admission by then.

 

[Jibby321]

Thank you very much for that info! I did not know that.

my question is now that how much a pharmacy school think Biochem is important to their pharmacy curriculum to trust the difference in quality of all kinds of different undergrad Biochemistry courses out there and decide to / or not to incorporate Biochem in their pharmacy curriculum.

A fun thought : if we could do away with Biochem, I would imagine that we could do the same to all basic science courses such as Molecular Biology, Genetics, Physiology, (Medical) Microbiology / Immunology, Pathology, etc. and only teach pharmacy-specific courses in pharmacy schools. Why would one only stop at Biochem ??

I also would imagine that making pre-pharmay students to have to take all those basic science courses would give us several advantages. The process would weed out more weak students as those courses are upper-level courses which are getting harder. And because the fact is that those course are not offered at any CC and only at upper levels at 4-yr colleges or universities, this would eliminate most of the debate about CCs vs 4 yr universities as students have to take those courses at 4 yr colleges or universities anyway. In addition, most students would probably go ahead and earn a bachelor in biology or chemistry and that would further weed out more weak applicants and eliminate most of the risks of adcoms having to compare different majors (e.g. as even a person majoring in English has to take and earn a bulk of prereq almost the size of a bachelor degree in biology or chemistry. But the risks of comparing different schools still remain, i.e. the ranking ?? how ?? and to what standards ??).

This would either help pharmacy schools to devote more time into teaching / learning pharmacy-specific knowledge and/or shorten the time pharmacy students have to spend for pharmacy school education (this might save about a year time to down the time in pharmacy school now to about 3 years or less instead of 4 years ??) thus save the students a lot in terms of tuition paid at graduate / professional level. If it happened in the latter scenario, I would love it very much to pay less in total for my pharmacy school education !!

Currently at my COP we take biochem fall semester and micro spring ( they are not prereqs). But this is changing fall 2015 making biochem, 4000 level micro 3000 level and stats as a prereq.

 

[farmacistallday]

CC is a great deal compared to most 4 years. Go for it but make sure the schools you want to go to don't look down on it.