U of Michigan student in need of application advice

[Eb3]

Hello all,
I'm a 5th year undergrad at Michigan in general biology, and I need some advice. Assuming I do really well this year, my cumulative gpa when I graduate will be around a 2.8. (its currently about a 2.7). I had a difficult first 2 years, averaging a 2.3gpa, and since then I have been busting my butt to bring up that GPA to where it is now. My pre-req gpa will be above 3.0 when I graduate, but I'm worried about the cumulative. I've read that without a 3.0, most places wont even look at your transcript.

The reason mine is so low is because I did poorly in several intro sciences classes, worth 5 credits each. For my major I have been taking almost exclusively UofMs more difficult science classes, many of which are only worth 3 credits, so it has been difficult to bring up that average.

I've had people tell me that PT schools tend to recognize the difficulty of the Bio program at UofM, and that they may throw me a bone, and I've had others tell me schools dont care how difficult your undergrad university was. Which is true?

Second, my plan was to graduate, than work for a year as PT tech/aide, and retake a few classes at community college to bump my gpa a bit, but even with 25-30credits of As, my gpa would still only rise to about a 2.9ish. I've also read that application deadlines are around December/January. If I was going to apply for a Fall of 2012 start, but was retaking classes in the fall of 2010, would they even factor into my admission decision (retaken grades wouldnt be given until after application deadline). I'd really prefer not to wait 2 whole years before applying.

The third thing I'm worried about is that even if I can apply, I will have to settle on whichever school accepts me because my gpa will limit my selection too much. My gpa for my past 70 credits is a 3.06, and I'm getting As in my more recent PT-prereq classes.

Can you guys give me any advice on what my options are here?

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[jbizzle]

Unfortunately, with a gpa of 2.8 you MAY have to settle for a school that accepted you. I'm not to be a downer, but applying for a 2011 acceptance this late in the cycle will not help your chances. Some people applied really really early (me) and I have a 3.02. If you're pretty new on this forum you should know that I had a 2.97 before taking a few extra classes before applying again. Just do what you can to bring your GPA up and unfortunately apply to less popular programs which doesn't help you because I know you don't wantto settle. But realistically, the kids with the best numbers get the cream pickings and you should know we get the left overs.

Now, did you start at QB/WR for UM football or something? That will change things if you did.

 

[TheOx777]

Hello all,
I'm a 5th year undergrad at Michigan in general biology, and I need some advice. Assuming I do really well this year, my cumulative gpa when I graduate will be around a 2.8. (its currently about a 2.7). I had a difficult first 2 years, averaging a 2.3gpa, and since then I have been busting my butt to bring up that GPA to where it is now. My pre-req gpa will be above 3.0 when I graduate, but I'm worried about the cumulative. I've read that without a 3.0, most places wont even look at your transcript.

The reason mine is so low is because I did poorly in several intro sciences classes, worth 5 credits each. For my major I have been taking almost exclusively UofMs more difficult science classes, many of which are only worth 3 credits, so it has been difficult to bring up that average.

I've had people tell me that PT schools tend to recognize the difficulty of the Bio program at UofM, and that they may throw me a bone, and I've had others tell me schools dont care how difficult your undergrad university was. Which is true?

Second, my plan was to graduate, than work for a year as PT tech/aide, and retake a few classes at community college to bump my gpa a bit, but even with 25-30credits of As, my gpa would still only rise to about a 2.9ish. I've also read that application deadlines are around December/January. If I was going to apply for a Fall of 2011 start, but was retaking classes in the fall of 2010, would they even factor into my admission decision (retaken grades wouldnt be given until after application deadline). I'd really prefer not to wait 2 whole years before applying.

The third thing I'm worried about is that even if I can apply, I will have to settle on whichever school accepts me because my gpa will limit my selection too much. My gpa for my past 70 credits is a 3.06, and I'm getting As in my more recent PT-prereq classes.

Can you guys give me any advice on what my options are here?

First, you should be commended for being self-aware and not blindly walking into this process. I have long wondered about how admissions committees really make their final decisions, because there seems to be a lot of variability from one DPT program to the next. Yes it is true that some schools will not even look your way if your cumulative GPA is not at least a 3.0. On the other hand, there are a number of people on this forum who were in a similar or even worse situation than you "GPA-wise." They reported spending an extra year or so post-bacc retaking courses and getting as much experience in the PT field as possible. The admissions committee looked favorably upon their dedication, and they got in. So I say look into programs that are more lenient on lower GPAs and continue to work your butt off. I have read a lot of people talking about St Augustine as a program that you can get into at or maybe a little lower than a 3.0gpa. Check that out. There are many others as well. I think it may be a little late for most programs, but check PTCAS to see which programs have admissions deadlines into the late winter/early spring.

On another note, I think I get why many admissions committees do not take one's undergrad major into account. It would make the application process very messy. I have always said that all majors are not created equal, and that should somehow be accounted for. I know that's big for MD and DO programs. Keep working on your GPA, prepare and do well on your GRE and good things should follow. Best wishes to you!

 

[markelmarcel]

I just wanted to add that I absolutely 110% agree with what's been said so far. It does no good to sugar-coat things.

To be able to have your pick at top-notch big-name programs, you are going to have to bring up your GPA significantly. If you want to be able to get into a few, lesser known/non-PTCAS schools than you just need to keep working hard to bring it up somewhat.

Either way, you need to continue to raise your GPA. Jbizzle was blessed with a great (IMO) GRE score to offset the slightly lower GPA. I had a really high GPA, so it offset my slightly lower GRE score.

The truth is, not everyone that applies can get accepted. There has to be a cutoff somewhere, and PT school is rigorous. (I'm sure you know this), so there's no use trying to joke ourselves into thinking that with sub-par grades, not much experience, etc you would get accepted into a program.

My advice, re-take as many classes as you can, do as MUCH volunteer/paid work as possible, and study your ass off for the GRE. If you want it that badly, then you will be able to get it-- but you've got to accept what you're given if you do get some acceptances.

 

[Eb3]

Thanks for the responses, I appreciate any and all advice.

I meant to say I would be applying to start in Fall of 2012, after taking classes and working hopefully as a PT tech/aide for a year (along with more shadowing/volunteering).

My question with this is: If the application deadlines are mainly in december of 2011 (looking at APTA spreadsheet), then will grades of retaken courses in fall of 2011 even be seen by schools? If I'm understanding this right, in order to retake classes after graduating during the fall and winter semesters for 1 academic year, you lock yourself out of PT school for a second year. Is this right?

And how much does working as a PT tech help your chances?

 

[jbizzle]

Thanks for the responses, I appreciate any and all advice.

I meant to say I would be applying to start in Fall of 2012, after taking classes and working hopefully as a PT tech/aide for a year (along with more shadowing/volunteering).

My question with this is: If the application deadlines are mainly in december of 2011 (looking at APTA spreadsheet), then will grades of retaken courses in fall of 2011 even be seen by schools? If I'm understanding this right, in order to retake classes after graduating during the fall and winter semesters for 1 academic year, you lock yourself out of PT school for a second year. Is this right?

And how much does working as a PT tech help your chances?

Oh OK I see what you mean. Your GPA will remain the same while your retaking those classes in the fall of 2011. During the academic update in december 2011 is when you can update those classes you are taking in the fall 2011, only then will your GPA change and only then will programs see that your GPA has increased. Programs will see that you are currently taking those classes, which will be noted as "courses in progress" on your PTCAS app, but im not sure how lenient they will be on that. Maybe they will give you the benefit of the doubt, but im not sure.

Now I see what you mean, unfortunately programs may not consider that your GPA will probably raise since your taking or retaking classes and waiting for the grades to be posted. It's somewhat similar to programs wanting a certain number of pre-reqs to be satisfied before you apply to them, get what im saying?

If you want it badly (I have the biggest sob story ever, if you check my older post you can probably see it or I can PM you if you'd like some inspiration) you can do it.

 

[markelmarcel]

My question with this is: If the application deadlines are mainly in december of 2011 (looking at APTA spreadsheet), then will grades of retaken courses in fall of 2011 even be seen by schools? If I'm understanding this right, in order to retake classes after graduating during the fall and winter semesters for 1 academic year, you lock yourself out of PT school for a second year. Is this right?

And how much does working as a PT tech help your chances?

Most schools only require you to have a percentage (say 60% for example) of the pre-reqs completed to apply. I think you can put in "planned" courses on PTCAS and then update the grades following their completion, and they would automatically be forwarded to the schools.

And I can't imagine how working as a PT tech wouldn't help! I wish I had, had the opportunity, but I didn't- still got accepted, but I definitely think if you can get a job as a tech/aide it's a great thing to do!

 

[Eb3]

Well at least I can still apply, thanks for clearing that up for me.
As far as pre-reqs go, the only ones I wouldn't have that seem to be commonly required would be Psych classes. Aside from that I would just be retaking Intro chem and intro bio classes at a community college to bump GPA and prove to schools that I can hack it. With how much more bio and chem I have under my belt since then, I think it'll be pretty easy.

Another question though: If a school just asks for a certain number of biology and chemistry credits as pre-requisites, can I just have for example 10 credits of organic chemistry counted instead of the usual 5 General chem and 5 orgo (my orgo scores is substantially better than my gen chem was). Likewise for Biology. I did better in my later classes (like Microbio, genetics, and neurobio) than I did in introductory biology. Can I just have the later counted in place of the usual intro course?
This would boost my pre-requisite GPA substantially if it could be counted this way.

 

[Zano]

My question with this is: If the application deadlines are mainly in december of 2011 (looking at APTA spreadsheet), then will grades of retaken courses in fall of 2011 even be seen by schools? If I'm understanding this right, in order to retake classes after graduating during the fall and winter semesters for 1 academic year, you lock yourself out of PT school for a second year. Is this right?

Hey, where can I find this APTA speadsheet you are talking about?

 

[Eforma]

Another question though: If a school just asks for a certain number of biology and chemistry credits as pre-requisites, can I just have for example 10 credits of organic chemistry counted instead of the usual 5 General chem and 5 orgo (my orgo scores is substantially better than my gen chem was). Likewise for Biology. I did better in my later classes (like Microbio, genetics, and neurobio) than I did in introductory biology. Can I just have the later counted in place of the usual intro course?
This would boost my pre-requisite GPA substantially if it could be counted this way.

I don't have time to reply to the whole post...but this caught my eye so I wanted to respond.

First, if a school asks for GENERAL CHEMISTRY then unless you call and confirm with the school that OChem can fulfill these requirements, you are expected to submit your Gen(Inorganic)Chem courses to meet theses pre-requisites. The same is mostly true to for biology as well. However, PTCAS calculates your overall science GPA and takes into consideration all other courses involving the sciences (ie: Ochem).

Ultimately, the school will see ALL your grades, for gen chem and Ochem, so it's best just to assign the appropriate class to the proper pre-requisite PTCAS. You will have to do the same thing for your schools supplmental application (if it has one).

Essentially what I am getting at, is call the schools you are interested in, and ask them how you should classify your courses. Since you have obviously taken the general chemistry course, it's a bit harder to justify a "substitute" course for the chemistry requirements.

Sorry if this isn't what you were hoping to hear, but I went through some similar issues with chemistry and biology pre-reqs and I just don't want other people to be as confused as I was. So call those schools and find out what they will accept. Then you'll be set.