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Discussion in 'Pre-Optometry' started by UTaustin90, Mar 23, 2012.

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  1. UTaustin90

    UTaustin90

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    Hi,

    If you have been accepted to UIW, can you please post your stats?
    I live in Texas, that is why I am considering this school!
  2. blazenmadison

    blazenmadison

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    Strongly advise you to attend University of Houston or other established OD school.
  3. luckyfeet

    luckyfeet

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    I hear it will soon be accredited. Anyone has stats? Please list them!


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  4. Jason K

    Jason K

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    Who's telling you they will soon be accredited....the school? I think they might just be a little biased. I'll go on record stating that at least one of these pop-up OD programs will run into problems getting accredited. The one in VA is my best guess. You put a school in the middle of nowhere where there are about 80 people living and you're not going to be able to support even the abysmal patient counts that established OD programs provide. Don't assume that a program will get status when they say they will. There are plenty of multimillion dollar grad programs that tanked because they never got it. The students are the ones that ultimately lose.
  5. luckyfeet

    luckyfeet

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    What happens if they ate NOT accredited by the time the first class graduates?? Can the students still practice? Will they get their OD degrees?


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  6. Jason K

    Jason K

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    If the school is not accredited when the first class graduates, that class will receive an OD, but it cannot be used to obtain a license. Licensure in the US requires graduation from an accredited OD program. There have been instances with other graduate programs, such as law, in which pop-up schools graduated several classes before receiving accreditation. Those graduates just have to sit around and wait until the school gets status. Other programs have had entire classes waiting.....and waiting....and waiting....only to go out of business and their graduates are left high and dry. You can sue to get your tuition back, but years wasted are gone for ever.


    Below is an excerpt from an online article discussing the problem of the out-of-control proliferation of law programs in the US. Optometry is not as far along in the process and the dirty laundry is much more hidden than in law, but the process taking place is the same. I think the final two paragraphs are quite appropriate for this forum. Just because something is unpleasant and just because it seems unfair, doesn't mean it can't or won't happen to you.

    Last edited: Mar 25, 2012
  7. Roffles

    Roffles OSU Class of 2015

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    I'm not 100% sure of their stats, but I'd guess somewhere around 3.2 and 310 are their averages. As far as going there, you really should read what others have said. Think about an accredited program instead.
  8. UTaustin90

    UTaustin90

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    I spoke with UIW today, the lady told me they are the highest level of accreditation that they can be at with NOT having a graduating class yet. She said for any school to be accredited they HAVE to HAVE atleast ONE graduating class. So they will be accredited after their first class graduates which is spring 2013!
  9. Jason K

    Jason K

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    No. It means that after they graduate their first class, they will then be eligible to receive full accreditation status. It does not mean that they absolutely will be accredited, regardless of what a salesperson in the admission department tells you.

    Mark my words - at least one of these new OD insta-schools will meet a brick wall when they pump out their first load of ODs. If a school cannot provide enough patient counts, it will not accredit the program. You can't train ODs without patients and even some established programs have difficulty providing enough counts to their students.

    I got to thinking about all the new programs and I realized something. What's holding anyone else back from starting a new OD program. Heck, maybe I'll start one in my basement? Why should UIW, MCPHS, WesternU, and AZCOPT, etc get to have all the fun and cash? What if I want a piece of the action? Then I realized, there's really nothing holding me back, except funding, but that's easy. Here's my recipe for a brand-spanking-new OD program, should anyone be interested. I'm thinking of calling mine something like "Jason K's Super Awesome College of Optometry and/or Physician Assisting in Case We Don't Get Accredited." It would be abbreviated "JKSACOPACWDGA." (Pronounced: Jay-Kay-Sac-oh-pack-wad-guh." It's got a nice ring to it, I think.


    Ten Step Recipe for Instant OD Program (should anyone wish to start their own)

    1) Find 10 or 20 million dollars laying around. If you don't have it yourself, hit up your local pharmacy school as they probably have money to burn. It worked well for MCPHS so why not for anyone else?

    2) Round up some hungry ODs who just completed their residency training and effectively, have no real-world experience, and hire them as your FT faculty and course developers.

    3) Hire a couple of ODs with grey hair on their heads so the website can have some experienced-looking ODs for students to gaze at and be impressed by.*

    4) After you get your first class' student loan bonanza, throw a bunch of really cool-sounding, expensive optometry toys in the clinic so you can impress the parents when they do the tour. Don't skimp on the clinic equipment since this is one of the main tools by which you will lure, I mean attract, your students.

    5) Hire a really good CPA as your controller. You'll need him/her to handle the tens of millions of dollars in tuition that will roll in each year. You'll likely need to spend many millions of dollars on fluff every year so you can maintain "non-profit" status. Note that, it's perfectly acceptable to hire some deans and other senior administrators from other programs and pay them outrageous salaries to the tune of several hundred thousand dollars each. They already know how to fire up an OD program so they can really save you some time. A few highly-paid senior admin people can really work in your favor since they'll be charged up to go out and recruit new students. It worked perfectly for MCPHS so I suggest modeling your efforts after their setup.

    6) Add students, the more the better. I suggest 80 -100 per class to maximize profits. Don't worry if your program can't support that many students, you can figure that out later. What's important is getting that cash, baby!

    7) Sit back and watch the excitement. You'll have a front row seat to the continued destruction of a profession and, let's face it, that's not something you get to see every day.

    8) A final suggestion. Hire Robert Shapiro as your attorney. You'll likely need him to rescue your program from the slew of lawsuits that will ensue when your students realize they've been scammed. He's not cheap, but with all that revenue, it won't be a problem.

    9) Have a contingency plan. If optometry implodes on itself spontaneously due to the massive glut of practitioners, the last thing you need is to be left with nothing but a useless building with millions of dollars of equipment. I suggest a PA program. It's cheap and can be tacked onto the OD program without too much trouble.

    10) Enjoy the many fruits of your hard labor!!



    * Note that the grey-haired ODs need not be experienced in actuality since their presence is merely for show. If there are currently enrolled 4th year students who are older, say in their 50s, locate them and recruit them heavily. Tell them the school is seeking non-traditional faculty members. Since inexperienced, older ODs are non-traditional faculty members, it's a match made in heaven.
    Last edited: Mar 28, 2012
  10. janedoe88

    janedoe88

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    LMAO Jason, I think you've outdone yourself!
    I have one question:
    WHAT STATS DO I NEED TO GO TO JKSACOPACWDGA?!?! PLEASE SOMEONE SHARE YOUR STATS!!!
  11. Jason K

    Jason K

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    Oh, c'mon now - would my program be super awesome if we got all excited about little things like grades and OAT scores? Nonsense! I say, if you can put on a pair of pants unassisted and you're over 18, you're in. All that really matters is that you can pay the tuition, either up front or through a student loan lender.

    I suppose, I would require that a student would have at least taken the OAT. There would be no minimum score, but you'd have to take it. Otherwise, people might think I have a substandard program and we don't want that. Also, I think I would impose a 1.0 gpa requirement. I realize that this would limit some potential "star" ODs, but I have to place a limit somewhere. Of course, if a student with a 0.5 GPA applied and had really good extra-curricular activities and good shadowing experience, I'd probably make an exception.
  12. cjensen20

    cjensen20

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    in the history of optometry schools in the USA that have opened up, how many have not "made the cut" or have failed?

    i think the number is close to 2 or 3...and that was like 70 years ago

    why wouldn't a school that has invested so much money and effort not become accredited? you don't think that the faculty would be bending over backwards to help their students perform well (at least at a passing level) so that the school can not only forge a reputation for themselves, but most importantly so that they obtain accreditation status through a high enough boards passing rate?

    I think its possible that of all the schools out there...the pre-accredited ones would be working the hardest for the benefit of the student and the school, because they have the most to lose. Complacency is probably easier to come across in established schools than in new ones.

    There is a clever saying "the hungry owl hunts best" that I would hope emulates what these newer schools are going through.

    I have a very hard time understanding that any one of these newer schools wont make it.

    there will always be complaints that the profession is too saturated...in EVERY profession. I'm sure plumbers, mechanics, lawyers, physicians, dentists, chiropractors, professional fisherman, etc.. complain about their profession being too saturated just as much as optometrists, though I don't know...there are a LOT of sniveling little complainers on here.:eek: Maybe we complain more hmm....

    how about instead of complaining about it, you get off your keyboard and go do something about it. "make optometry better than how you found it" - Dr. Dori Carlson, AOA President.
  13. xmattODx

    xmattODx Senior Member

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    Trust me when I tell you this post is not me complaining. You're still in school so let me tell you, briefly, what I've been going through in this profession.

    I graduated 10 years ago. I have a master's degree in addition to my OD. I have four published papers in good journals. I've presented at conferences around the world. I've had posters at optometric and public health conferences. I've worked, successfully, in every mode of optometric practice there is. Hospital, private, commercial.

    I've taught eye care to optometry students, nursing students and medics.

    Since my return to the greater Portland, OR area almost one year ago, I've been able to secure work one day a week. One. Day. A. Week. It is so bad I left my family for a month to work overseas, it was all that was available.

    Optometry is saturated whether you believe it or not.

    I've tried to make optometry better and I will continue to try but believe you, me, Optometry is saturated. At the same time, I can't complain that I can't find work. Optometry is not a profession for employees it is a profession of self-employment. So when I become self-employed - soon - I'll just be taking patients away from all the practices around me. They can enjoy a decreased income while I enjoy making optometry better - for me.
  14. luckyfeet

    luckyfeet

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    It is saturated, however, most ODs I have shadowed told me you'll make anywhere from 80,000 in a commercial business to about $130,000 in a private practice. If you expect to make more, don't pursue optometry period.


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  15. Shnurek

    Shnurek

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    [​IMG]

    Be more specific, do you mean 80,000 as a commercial employee and 130,000 as a private practice owner?
  16. luckyfeet

    luckyfeet

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    Yes that's exactly what I mean!


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  17. Daylooo

    Daylooo

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    looks tasty.
  18. Shnurek

    Shnurek

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    That's good enough for me :)
  19. luckyfeet

    luckyfeet

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    Shnurek, where do u go toschool?


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  20. itek2OD

    itek2OD

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    now we just need a virtual tour/intro video on youtube.....:lol:

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