Unemployed Pathologist

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Eagle Eye

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I don't understand why I cannot get a job. I am a really good, solid surgical pathologist. I had been working at a very busy private practice for about 3 years and was providing excellent service. I have no malpractice claims agains me, no major errors committed in 3 years, and most of the clinicians i worked with spoke very highly of me. At my previous job (for three years) the partners in the group kept telling me, "it's a done deal, we are going to make you partner." However, when the partners voted, the chairman of the group told everyone that "certain corporation bylaws" gave him "complete veto power" and that no matter how anyone voted, he would make sure that I would not be making partner and I was going to be let go. This guy is a total control freak and his animosity toward me stems from not performing hep C bone marrow biopsies in his place (even though I had only done one previously), speaking up when I was asked to "absorb all the call" from a retiring parter and getting along too well with the clinicians at my satellite hospital.

Anyway, they did not renew my contract and I have been searching for a job since January. I am glad I'm out of there because i was starting to get paranoid that i was being sabotaged by the managing partner. I have had a few interviews but no job offers. I think there are two reasons for this; one, it sounds fishy to say "they didn't make me a partner so I left" and two, I haven't worked since January, most people ask why. My answer is "because I CANT FIND A JOB!" I guess I don't want to say that my previous managing partner is a sociopath. Even though it's true, I think prospective employers don't want to hear that.

Long story short, I can't find work and I don't know what else to do. Does anyone have any advice? It's been six months now and I literally am close to becoming broke. Luckily we saved some money and I did not buy a house (since I didn't trust that guy), but nonetheless, my savings is running out. Any thoughts on finding work with that history or any ideas for getting out of Pathology completely?

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I don't understand why I cannot get a job. I am a really good, solid surgical pathologist. I had been working at a very busy private practice for about 3 years and was providing excellent service. I have no malpractice claims agains me, no major errors committed in 3 years, and most of the clinicians i worked with spoke very highly of me. At my previous job (for three years) the partners in the group kept telling me, "it's a done deal, we are going to make you partner." However, when the partners voted, the chairman of the group told everyone that "certain corporation bylaws" gave him "complete veto power" and that no matter how anyone voted, he would make sure that I would not be making partner and I was going to be let go. This guy is a total control freak and his animosity toward me stems from not performing hep C bone marrow biopsies in his place (even though I had only done one previously), speaking up when I was asked to "absorb all the call" from a retiring parter and getting along too well with the clinicians at my satellite hospital.

Anyway, they did not renew my contract and I have been searching for a job since January. I am glad I'm out of there because i was starting to get paranoid that i was being sabotaged by the managing partner. I have had a few interviews but no job offers. I think there are two reasons for this; one, it sounds fishy to say "they didn't make me a partner so I left" and two, I haven't worked since January, most people ask why. My answer is "because I CANT FIND A JOB!" I guess I don't want to say that my previous managing partner is a sociopath. Even though it's true, I think prospective employers don't want to hear that.

Long story short, I can't find work and I don't know what else to do. Does anyone have any advice? It's been six months now and I literally am close to becoming broke. Luckily we saved some money and I did not buy a house (since I didn't trust that guy), but nonetheless, my savings is running out. Any thoughts on finding work with that history or any ideas for getting out of Pathology completely?

well, one possibility is to go around to the uro and gi groups in the area and find out who their in office pathologist is and how much they are paying them and see if you can do it for less.
 
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There are jobs in the boonies, catch is.... you have to move to the boonies.
 
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I would to your place of training, go find their clients, and take their specimens. They shouldn't have trained you if they didn't have too much to do.

If this fails, go take specimens from another academic place. Then another. Repeat.


If this fails, find a different field. We don't need any more pathologists.
 
Ok.... Moving right along from the frankly sadistic "advice" above...

I see absolutely no reason to protect this former boss. Why play nice and cover his deficiencies? Tell it like it is and be ready to provide plenty of references to whom your interviewer can speak to prove you are a normal, affable, person and this guy was a controlling sociopath who wasn't best pleased that you weren't willing to work like a mule licking his boots in order to "make it."

Also introspect, etc and think about the things about yourself, and your performance that weren't perfect and try to work on them.
 
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Never underestimate the giant red flag that gaps in employment raise. Have your story ready. I disagree with BlondeDocteur on this one. Don't make it about differences between you and management whether it was true there was a controlling sociopath there or not. Have references ready. Do everything you can to get past the "this person must have been fired bc they are incompetent or difficult to work with" assumption people are likely to make about you.

Advertise and validate what you can offer and why you want to work for whoever it is you are interviewing with. Are there partners from your old spot that can attest to your value? If so, get them to speak or write on your behalf. If not, I'll be honest, it's going to be tough explaining your departure if it wasn't due to economics. Those responsible for hiring generally assume the worst when they have to assume.
 
Ok.... Moving right along from the frankly sadistic "advice" above...

I see absolutely no reason to protect this former boss. Why play nice and cover his deficiencies? Tell it like it is and be ready to provide plenty of references to whom your interviewer can speak to prove you are a normal, affable, person and this guy was a controlling sociopath who wasn't best pleased that you weren't willing to work like a mule licking his boots in order to "make it."

Also introspect, etc and think about the things about yourself, and your performance that weren't perfect and try to work on them.

Lol any mention of an "old boss" in a negative light is an automatic "thank you for coming and showing interest in our group".

You are new to the field. Get cozy as you are slowly cooked to perfection in pathology as you will soon accept things you never would have as a shining medical student. It is a slow decline. You have no leverage unless you write the checks.
 
This is the lobster in the pot who doesn't notice the gradual increase in temperature analogy, right?

Medicine is not immune to ****ty bosses. Taken in total isolation, working for a group for three years and not being made partner due to a greedy MP is hardly a scarlet red flag.
 
This is the lobster in the pot who doesn't notice the gradual increase in temperature analogy, right?

Medicine is not immune to ****** bosses. Taken in total isolation, working for a group for three years and not being made partner due to a greedy MP is hardly a scarlet red flag.
I would have said the same thing as an R1 in pathology. Today that is not uncommon.
 
This is the lobster in the pot who doesn't notice the gradual increase in temperature analogy, right?

Medicine is not immune to ****** bosses. Taken in total isolation, working for a group for three years and not being made partner due to a greedy MP is hardly a scarlet red flag.

Of course it's not. However, 6 months of unemployment is tougher to explain. Why were you let go? Is anyone from your former place of employment speaking up for you? This is nothing specific to pathology. People that hire others are inherently skeptical of others they do not know. Human nature.
 
My advice is to look for diagnostic pathology jobs at least 100 miles from your current location. If you really are what you claim, when you interview and are asked why you're looking to move, but honest but if you get into disagreements with your former boss, that's a red flag for "cannot work well with others." Even if untrue. You could say something like, "it wasn't the right situation for me and my family, so I chose to move on and your group's opportunity seemed like a possible good fit." Have references ready from colleagues in path and clinical medicine who can say you are the solid path you claim to be.

All else fails, do an FP fellowship. We have tons of jobs in forensic.
 
The reasons why people are not retained as partners after initial "trial" periods are varied, and unfortunately many of them, particularly in the past, are things that do not reflect well on the specific person in question. That is, stuff like poor communication or diagnostic skills, work ethic, etc. But everyone (well, probably almost everyone except the naive or sheltered) knows of abusive groups or practices who frequently do not retain young hires and dismiss them prior to partnership date. These groups are truly reprehensible, but as I said it can be extremely hard to truly differentiate these groups from the ones who got rid of someone for problematic behavior - there are all kinds of problematic behaviors which do not necessarily disqualify someone from practice but may disqualify them from working for your group.

So if you are honest and open about your circumstances, I would highly doubt that other good groups would hold it against you. Unfortunately it is in a sense like you are starting over, in that you have to now spend another few years before reaching partnership.

As I said, the main problem you MAY have (but might not) is that your situation is colored by those other people who were dismissed from their positions justifiably, but of course deny that it was justified and feel completely wronged. That's the difficulty. Nearly everyone who is dismissed from their position thinks they are in the right and their former employer is in the wrong, that's human nature. I would not focus too much on the conflict with the one partner, because that is potentially problematic and even if you are telling the truth, people are going to worry there is some grain of truth to it unless they can find out otherwise. So have good answers and good responses and good references. But focus more on the good things you do and have done.
 
There are jobs in the boonies, catch is.... you have to move to the boonies.
Spoken like someone in "pre-health." I work in the so-called boonies. We routinely get cold calls from experienced pathologists who are desperate for work. We haven't even considered a new hire in the past 8 years. The pathology market is bad everywhere and ironically in the boonies the reimbursement picture has held together better than in a lot of urban centers. My best advice to the OP is to rely on contacts from residency etc. The usual places (pathologyoutlines, etc) are mostly dead-ends.
 
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Eagle eye,

Many groups routinely toss a potential partner candidate just so they don't split the pie.
They would rather boot you out and hold on to the cash. I hint at this especially if the group has done this in the past to others.

I would try locums even if it only nets you only a week per month.
You will likely have to add a few extra state licenses in your region and work for an agency. It may not cover all your bills.
However, you will have better comeback to what have you been doing lately.
 
While in the short run it may benefit a group to recycle candidates before they become partner, it costs in the long run. Sure, they'll save by keeping new recruits at a fraction of what the partners earn, but once they get rid of one, they have to then go through the hiring process all over again which means getting flooded with CV's, taking a half/full day of their time to interview each potential candidate, reimbursing interviewees for airfare, lodging, dinners, etc. And going through this process over-and-over again does get weary. Most importantly the workload that everyone else must assume being a man down forces them to be putting in more hours that they prefer not to. Otherwise, they wouldn't be hiring. The point is many of us know of or heard of such shady groups, but for the above reasons it is not good business-sense to act this way on a regular basis. Also, these practices tend to build a bad reputation pretty quick if they keep doing this and word usually gets around as private practice pathology in a given geographic area is a pretty small community.

Part of the reasons you alluded to being unable to land a job yet have to do with perception. If you're saying, "They didn't make me partner, so I left", future potential employers are naturally going to think there's more to the story than meets the eye. In other words, you could have gotten a raw deal at the place you worked at, but they might be wondering if you have some kind of issues that justified what happened. To avoid that being played up too much, it's probably best to give as p.c. an answer as possible or a very neutral reason that can't really be refuted, as mlw suggested. Ask yourself what wouldn't raise eyebrows if they asked me, "What are you looking for in a new job that you weren't getting out of your old job?" e.g. I wanted to move to a bigger/smaller geographical area; My spouse has family in the vicinity (even if your spouse doesn't, it'd be very hard for the group to question that), I feel it's always a smart idea to keep my career options open if a potentially great opportunity comes along and your practice seems like a place where I could see myself long term, etc.

Thinking that prospective employers don't want to hear your previous managing partner was a sociopath is a good hunch...;) Once you've signed a contract with them and signing out cases on Day 1 then you can vent. But until then, they wouldn't know whose side of the story is closer to the truth, so it's best not to bring that up. As others stated above, have good references. Prospective employers will most definitely want to check with references of your last place of employment. Obviously your former boss may not put you in a shining light, but what about your colleagues? Hopefully one or two of them can vouch for you (and they probably share the same sentiment about the boss). At this point, you should know who's going to stick up for you, but if you're uncertain about your references have someone you know and trust call them up and to "check you out" and see if your references hold up. It may seem a little paranoid, but it might be worth it for peace of mind.

Finally, unemployment for 6 months does start to raise eyebrows, but a lot of practices know it's a buyer's market. On the other hand, if you're encroaching on 1 yr. territory those raised eyebrows become more like warning signals. AZpath had a good suggestion about locums and getting multiple licenses so you can at least say you were doing something in the meantime. If you're literally going broke then you have to find a way to support yourself and your family. As a licensed physician, there are other opportunities out there that can employ your services more readily than the demands of the pathology market at the moment, but keep trying. In the meantime if you have to do something else, don't feel it's beneath you if it means paying your bills and putting food on the table. Best of luck...
 
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If you have drug companies near you, see if they are looking for any pathologists. Sometimes they have a few hidden jobs.

Friend of mine found out about a pathologist job at a drug company in the area from a histotech who was working there. He didn't find the work very stimulating, since he was basically double checking work done at another facility, so he left. Still, you take whatever you can find when you are desperate. I've been there.
 
Sorry for your situation. I would go locums (agree with above) or last minute fellowship depending on your previous training. I would also see if i could find some work grossing to pay the bills if you live in a big metro.

Lesson for young pathologists. Continue to live cheap, one year emergency fund, pay off loans, save for retirement, do not buy house or expensive car.

My smart remark: Go to the next CAP (with money you don't have) and speak up! Take a stand about the poor job market and oversupply. Watch the support, all the new networking friends, and job offers come in. They want to hear your voice! (but shhh...don't tell med students your story. Everything is fine, nothing to see here.)
 
Eagle Eye, please PM with that group location. I need this for my database.
thanks.

I support all the above fatwas calling for trying to steal away any business opportunities you can from the group that rolled on you.

And dont listen to posts if all else fails do forensics. Dont dig a deeper hole in your life.

Things will improve, be positive and foster the anger down deep insider for these deceivers.

As I much as I appreciated the wisdom of the younger pathologists like Yaah, the "reasons" for not retaining pathologists have nothing to do with skillz and everything to do with money.

If you can keep churning, you can keep making fat stacks. A noob at 175K is far better than a 3+ year junior staff making maybe 250K+ in the eyes of many myopic practice oligarchs.
 
Thank you (to most) for all your advice. I have references from my previous employment, which i hear are very good. It's just not enough. I have had two groups retract their ad as a retiring pathologist suddenly has a new vigor for work and will stay on for at least a year or so. Two of them after I interviewed. Now, i am finding that probably my biggest hurdle is explaining 6 months of non-employment. I was offered and accepted a job in another state (which I was willing to wait for). After getting my NY license, they kept stalling by not sending me a contract. At one point they even said, "it's in the mail!" Long story short, there was no contract, ever. It was a lie, all a big ploy to get me to move to there without a contract so they could make me the "real offer" of 10,000 + surgicals per year for $125,000 or whatever they felt like changing it to once I got there. I do feel like a sucker for believing them for so long (and I am obviously embarrassed) but at least I didn't uproot my family for a career killer, sweat shop with no contract.

I will say that locums has (for me) been a dead end for the past 3 months. The girl who has been "handling" my account can't even keep my 3 state licenses straight. Literally, i have to tell every week, "write this down…..". I finally told her last week that she is doing a horrible job and I needed to speak to someone else in her company. She apparently is the expert, which i highly doubt. I contacted a few others and as of yet have heard nothing regarding possible temp work.

I really am willing to move anywhere and work for far less than I was making before. I looked into fellowships, but by the time i realized that i really couldn't get a job, everything but surg path was taken for 2014. Everything, everywhere. If anyone has different info please let me know, I am willing to move anywhere for anything but surg path. Even forensics.

At this point, i am thinking of calling my old GME office to see if there is an internship or something i can do for a year just so i can get health insurance for my wife and kids. That would make at least somebody in Path happy as there would be one less mouth to contend with

Thanks to all for reading this, i obviously needed to vent.
 
Thank you (to most) for all your advice. I have references from my previous employment, which i hear are very good. It's just not enough. I have had two groups retract their ad as a retiring pathologist suddenly has a new vigor for work and will stay on for at least a year or so. Two of them after I interviewed. Now, i am finding that probably my biggest hurdle is explaining 6 months of non-employment. I was offered and accepted a job in another state (which I was willing to wait for). After getting my NY license, they kept stalling by not sending me a contract. At one point they even said, "it's in the mail!" Long story short, there was no contract, ever. It was a lie, all a big ploy to get me to move to there without a contract so they could make me the "real offer" of 10,000 + surgicals per year for $125,000 or whatever they felt like changing it to once I got there. I do feel like a sucker for believing them for so long (and I am obviously embarrassed) but at least I didn't uproot my family for a career killer, sweat shop with no contract.

I will say that locums has (for me) been a dead end for the past 3 months. The girl who has been "handling" my account can't even keep my 3 state licenses straight. Literally, i have to tell every week, "write this down…..". I finally told her last week that she is doing a horrible job and I needed to speak to someone else in her company. She apparently is the expert, which i highly doubt. I contacted a few others and as of yet have heard nothing regarding possible temp work.

I really am willing to move anywhere and work for far less than I was making before. I looked into fellowships, but by the time i realized that i really couldn't get a job, everything but surg path was taken for 2014. Everything, everywhere. If anyone has different info please let me know, I am willing to move anywhere for anything but surg path. Even forensics.

At this point, i am thinking of calling my old GME office to see if there is an internship or something i can do for a year just so i can get health insurance for my wife and kids. That would make at least somebody in Path happy as there would be one less mouth to contend with

Thanks to all for reading this, i obviously needed to vent.

If you are up against it you should check the military or VA (second choice to military). The pay is acceptable and the lifestyle is not bad. No more going to Iraq or Afghanistan to run a blood bank and lab.
 
As I much as I appreciated the wisdom of the younger pathologists like Yaah, the "reasons" for not retaining pathologists have nothing to do with skillz and everything to do with money.
.
Well of course it has to do with money. Everything always has to do with money. But skillz are important too. Skillz can save you money and make you more money so they are necessary to have in your group, especially if you don't possess them or want to possess them (as an example, any group I am in will always need someone who is good at greasing wheels and cold calling people and such, because I hate that and suck at it).

So yes, of course, the ultimate reason for not retaining someone is money. But skillz (or lack of skillz) make it easier to make that decision or delay it.
 
Unfortunately, I have heard this type of story 30 years ago, 20 years ago, 10 year ago, 5 years ago, now and, likely, will in the future.

I recall some fortunate one on this Board stating that he had not known an unemployed pathologist. Now he has.
 
Thank you (to most) for all your advice. I have references from my previous employment, which i hear are very good. It's just not enough. I have had two groups retract their ad as a retiring pathologist suddenly has a new vigor for work and will stay on for at least a year or so. Two of them after I interviewed. Now, i am finding that probably my biggest hurdle is explaining 6 months of non-employment. I was offered and accepted a job in another state (which I was willing to wait for). After getting my NY license, they kept stalling by not sending me a contract. At one point they even said, "it's in the mail!" Long story short, there was no contract, ever. It was a lie, all a big ploy to get me to move to there without a contract so they could make me the "real offer" of 10,000 + surgicals per year for $125,000 or whatever they felt like changing it to once I got there. I do feel like a sucker for believing them for so long (and I am obviously embarrassed) but at least I didn't uproot my family for a career killer, sweat shop with no contract.

Yikes. I made a vow to never do that the next generation of Pathologists and I plan to keep it. Why do so many feel it's worth losing their honor in pathology for a few extra bucks at the tip rail??
 
I don't understand why I cannot get a job. I am a really good, solid surgical pathologist. I had been working at a very busy private practice for about 3 years and was providing excellent service. I have no malpractice claims agains me, no major errors committed in 3 years, and most of the clinicians i worked with spoke very highly of me. At my previous job (for three years) the partners in the group kept telling me, "it's a done deal, we are going to make you partner." However, when the partners voted, the chairman of the group told everyone that "certain corporation bylaws" gave him "complete veto power" and that no matter how anyone voted, he would make sure that I would not be making partner and I was going to be let go. This guy is a total control freak and his animosity toward me stems from not performing hep C bone marrow biopsies in his place (even though I had only done one previously), speaking up when I was asked to "absorb all the call" from a retiring parter and getting along too well with the clinicians at my satellite hospital.

Anyway, they did not renew my contract and I have been searching for a job since January. I am glad I'm out of there because i was starting to get paranoid that i was being sabotaged by the managing partner. I have had a few interviews but no job offers. I think there are two reasons for this; one, it sounds fishy to say "they didn't make me a partner so I left" and two, I haven't worked since January, most people ask why. My answer is "because I CANT FIND A JOB!" I guess I don't want to say that my previous managing partner is a sociopath. Even though it's true, I think prospective employers don't want to hear that.

Long story short, I can't find work and I don't know what else to do. Does anyone have any advice? It's been six months now and I literally am close to becoming broke. Luckily we saved some money and I did not buy a house (since I didn't trust that guy), but nonetheless, my savings is running out. Any thoughts on finding work with that history or any ideas for getting out of Pathology completely?

Holy ****, please provide proof, this seems very troll like, and this scares me bad since I am going into path and start in a week.
 
Holy ****, please provide proof, this seems very troll like, and this scares me bad since I am going into path and start in a week.
Acutally it doesn't strike me as troll like at all. Too many specifics. If you go into path, go into it with your eyes open and realize that you will struggle to find employment.
 
Acutally it doesn't strike me as troll like at all. Too many specifics. If you go into path, go into it with your eyes open and realize that you will struggle to find employment.

I second that. After nine months of searching and not limiting myself geographically, I still don't have a permanent contract in hand and I leave fellowship in 2 weeks. Good news though is that I have locums work lined up for the foreseeable future near by and it'll pay the bills until the paperwork clears (at this same hospital) for a permanent position. Worst thing I could have done is do another fellowship and then be in the same position one year from now.

Please also keep in mind, reedsposer22, that this is probably the only medical profession where the competency of new graduates is consistently challenged and disregarded. I don't see new clinical graduates who are dumber than a box of bricks have their fund of knowledge and lack of experience used against them in the application process...it's automatically assumed they know what they're doing even if they truly don't.
 
I second that. After nine months of searching and not limiting myself geographically, I still don't have a permanent contract in hand and I leave fellowship in 2 weeks. Good news though is that I have locums work lined up for the foreseeable future near by and it'll pay the bills until the paperwork clears .

what sort of $ does locums work in path pay? I've heard it's about the only field where salaries for locums are actually lower on a rate basis because in path it's all about the contracts/access to tissue and obviously the locums guy isn't helping there
 
what sort of $ does locums work in path pay? I've heard it's about the only field where salaries for locums are actually lower on a rate basis because in path it's all about the contracts/access to tissue and obviously the locums guy isn't helping there

You're right in that the pay isn't what a managing partner would make. Locums pay can be anywhere from 1-2K/day depending on what exactly the group you're contracting with covers. If they're going to pick up malpractice, travel, and lodging as my group does, its going to be less than if they weren't. Even so, the rate I'm being paid works out such that in a day I make close to my weekly net pay as a fellow (which is yet another reason doing another fellowship would not have been a good idea).
 
I sympathize with the original poster and to Alteran whose experience in the job market search has become the norm for most Pathologists coming out of training. I really do not understand why our leadership has failed us so terribly, and why they stand witness to this field's continued demise at the hands of over-supply. That aside, I just wanted to add that the rates Alteran mentioned (1-2K/day) are really high by comparison to the rates I've come across in the Northeast. I'm currently in practice, but have looked into locums work to supplement my income. The rates have been in the ballpark of $500-700/day or $2.5-3K/wk. I've not taken any of these jobs, because at the end of the day I would be sacrificing my week of vacation to make after taxes ~$1.5K/week or $300/day......no thank you.

When is this madness going to end? When will I stop getting report from friends I've trained with that they cant find employment after three fellowships and now they are moving on to their fourth fellowship?
 
I sympathize with the original poster and to Alteran whose experience in the job market search has become the norm for most Pathologists coming out of training. I really do not understand why our leadership has failed us so terribly, and why they stand witness to this field's continued demise at the hands of over-supply. That aside, I just wanted to add that the rates Alteran mentioned (1-2K/day) are really high by comparison to the rates I've come across in the Northeast. I'm currently in practice, but have looked into locums work to supplement my income. The rates have been in the ballpark of $500-700/day or $2.5-3K/wk. I've not taken any of these jobs, because at the end of the day I would be sacrificing my week of vacation to make after taxes ~$1.5K/week or $300/day......no thank you.

When is this madness going to end? When will I stop getting report from friends I've trained with that they cant find employment after three fellowships and now they are moving on to their fourth fellowship?
It is not going to end. It is going to accelerate. The academics are so far removed from the economics of pathology that they must continue plugging out new trainees, especially as their reimbursements dry up. Heck new programs are being added as departments look to make up revenue. It is a positive feedback loop that results in even more lost leverage for practicing pathologists. No one should give this field a look until this profession holds the cards again. We are reraising with junk against the nuts.
 
Acutally it doesn't strike me as troll like at all. Too many specifics. If you go into path, go into it with your eyes open and realize that you will struggle to find employment.

I disagree with these kinds of generalized statements. No, you are not necessarily going to struggle to find employment, though you MAY. From that latest jobs report it looked like unemployment of fellows ( those who said they could not find full time employment) was in the teens. As someone from a "top" place I can still say I don't know anyone who could not find employment, although I am a few years out now and haven't kept tabs on everyone.

Also, we know nothing about the poster. Everything he/she states may be true, or they may lack the introspection to realize there could be internal problems that have lead to their unemployment. Take all anonymous internet posts with a grain of salt.
 
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I disagree with these kinds of generalized statements. No, you are not necessarily going to struggle to find employment, though you MAY. From that latest jobs report it looked like unemployment of fellows ( those who said they could not find full time employment) was in the teens. As someone from a "top" place I can still say I don't know anyone who could not find employment, although I am a few years out now and haven't kept tabs on everyone.

Also, we know nothing about the poster. Everything he/she states may be true, or they may lack the introspection to realize there could be internal problems that have lead to their unemployment. Take all anonymous internet posts with a grain of salt.

In a saturated market, things like pedigree matter a lot. From your perspective, being from a top place and all, I'd wager that all of your contacts had little trouble finding gainful work. For those from mid-range or worse places, finding work is probably a more difficult endeavor.
 
If all of this is true, OP most be the unluckiest pathologist ever.

I know the job market sucks, but this reads like a sum-of-all-fears posting.
 
I disagree with these kinds of generalized statements. No, you are not necessarily going to struggle to find employment, though you MAY. From that latest jobs report it looked like unemployment of fellows ( those who said they could not find full time employment) was in the teens. As someone from a "top" place I can still say I don't know anyone who could not find employment, although I am a few years out now and haven't kept tabs on everyone.

Also, we know nothing about the poster. Everything he/she states may be true, or they may lack the introspection to realize there could be internal problems that have lead to their unemployment. Take all anonymous internet posts with a grain of salt.

Yes, people from top places will always do better in the job market. However, there is a big difference between a troll post, and a post from someone who lacks introspection.
 
You're right in that the pay isn't what a managing partner would make. Locums pay can be anywhere from 1-2K/day ).

well thats a huge gap, but the upper end of that is very nice. Work 250 days as a locum, have a 115 days a year off and still bank 500k.....and not worry about acuiring business, specimens, billing, etc the whole time. Sign me up.
 
well thats a huge gap, but the upper end of that is very nice. Work 250 days as a locum, have a 115 days a year off and still bank 500k.....and not worry about acuiring business, specimens, billing, etc the whole time. Sign me up.

Well, the flaw in this logic is that no one is making 2,000 per day locums. They are lucky to make 1,000 per day, if that.
 
well thats a huge gap, but the upper end of that is very nice. Work 250 days as a locum, have a 115 days a year off and still bank 500k.....and not worry about acuiring business, specimens, billing, etc the whole time. Sign me up.
First of all, there's only 260 weekdays in a year, minus 10 federal holidays, so if you're working 250 days a year you're working full time and taking no vacation, just getting weekend days off. There are no locums in path out there getting 250 days worth of locums work a year. If there was that much work available, groups would simply be hiring more full time employees. As for the pay, it depends on the group. My group in the Boston area pays $1200-$1500/day of work depending on your skill level and seniority, but we load you up as a locums and you'll be putting in a good 10 hours for the day. We also only use locums probably 10 days a year for very tight scheduling days.
 
If you are up against it you should check the military or VA (second choice to military).

The VA might be hiring more docs soon. As an active duty pathologist, I recommend the VA. You might have at least a 50% chance that a nurse won't be your boss.
 
Sorry to hear about your plight Eagle Eye. My last three partnership tract positions ended with no ownership in the business - all (seemingly) arbitrary decisions by lab owners with a churn and burn business model. Never been fired though. Time to start your own AP lab - or a union.
 
Atnag,
I have been working full time PP since my SDN join date. Dusting off my review texts for the recertification exam at the moment. And wondering what is the next career move? Probably another PP gig in a new town.
 
Yeah, I'm also doing PP and looking to move onto greener pastures when the right opportunity comes along. Regarding recertification, I've heard others say it is nowhere near as brutal as the original, and ABP has stated that the pass rate thus far is 100%. Best of luck...
 
To the original poster--

I am sorry to hear about your troubles. Take heart that your experience is not that uncommon. Get out of the area. Contact your residency and all former residency colleagues regarding word-of-mouth job openings. Ask your residency about temporary work in their department--for peanuts--to tide you over. If you are as decent as you claim to be, THEY OWE YOU. Call more locums. Get your name out there!

I must ask--did you sense warning signals with this chairman before you took the job? If you replaced someone, what were the circumstances of his leaving? Did the group have a real history of making recent partners? This is not prurient interest on my part. Your experience may prevent other new pathologists from falling into a similar sh*thole.
 
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Thanks again to all for the additional advice. I have been on the interview trail and hopefully will get good news soon. Where to begin?

First, every locums job I have applied for has been $600/per day. In my experience, they all cover travel, lodging and malpractice. I am sure that they bill for far more, but 3 different locums (2 large companies and one small one) have quoted me this rate. One did actually "tell me" $1200 but the contact I received clearly stated $600. This was very early on in my job search and I disregarded the position as the thing was extremely shady. I could not contact the hospital/path group directly because this managing partner had a little side business going on and he didn't want anyone else knowing about it. Don't get me wrong, $600 is fine and acceptable, but I think these tales of $1000 -2000 are simply just tales. I guess I could be wrong, but I don't think so.

Second, introspection is DEFINITELY warranted. I have been doing a lot of that lately and should (as any reasonable person) continue that process far into employment and beyond. I have learned that "yes" is the answer that the people in charge want to hear. When an plan is presented, there should be no conflicting ideas, even if that question is directly asked. I have always thought that honestly is the best policy, but I have been wrong. Even the best intentions will burn you to the ground if they are conflicting with management. Beyond this, flexibility is what i need. I know i need to let a lot more roll off my back. Not everything matters that much, truly. Also, I am personable, but I know I am really nervous on interviews. Thinking, "I need a job, I need a job" over and over again is killing my confidence.

Third, there were definitely warning signs from my last group. Several people were pushed out of the group over the past 10 years or so for a variety of reasons but mostly personality disagreements. I should have realized that this was coming when I heard the story of someone being fired who had been with the company for 10 years (this was prior to my employment). Essentially the story is that the person was hostile after being fired and was obviously "crazy". The take away point is, after 10 years they got fired because the managing partner didn't like them, that would make a LOT of people crazy. I was told by other partners just a few weeks after my employment that the president didn't like me, but not to worry because everyone else had my back. My fault is that i failed to see that when push comes to shove, these people could not stand up for what they wanted. They chose to be bullied into submission. After what happened and what was threatened, I cannot say that I would have had the courage to stand up either (if I was in their shoes) and I don't hold any grudges against them. I just wish i could have seen it coming. I should have and that is my fault.

More later, thanks.
 
Third, there were definitely warning signs from my last group. Several people were pushed out of the group over the past 10 years or so for a variety of reasons but mostly personality disagreements. I should have realized that this was coming when I heard the story of someone being fired who had been with the company for 10 years (this was prior to my employment). Essentially the story is that the person was hostile after being fired and was obviously "crazy". The take away point is, after 10 years they got fired because the managing partner didn't like them, that would make a LOT of people crazy.

New pathologists should take note and heed their gut during interviews. A string of fired predecessors, lack of junior full partners, or malignant personalities apparent even after a brief interview are red flags. The job market creates undue pressure to accept any offer, but sometimes walking away from a bad job is the better choice in the long run.

I wish you the best.
 
Sounds like a raw deal, Eagle Eye, but one that taught you a valuable (though unfortunate) lesson. If you get a feeling something isn't right or are unhappy with your current position, it's never too early to start looking for a job elsewhere. Also, don't burn any bridges- you never know when you'll need a favor from someone.
 
New pathologists should take note and heed their gut during interviews. A string of fired predecessors, lack of junior full partners, or malignant personalities apparent even after a brief interview are red flags. The job market creates undue pressure to accept any offer, but sometimes walking away from a bad job is the better choice in the long run.

I wish you the best.

I would simply avoid any practice where the "real" decision power rests upon either a single person or a narrow group of people. The idea that a "partner" or "associate" can be pushed out even after "many years" is simply unacceptable.
 
... One did actually "tell me" $1200 but the contact I received clearly stated $600. This was very early on in my job search and I disregarded the position as the thing was extremely shady. I could not contact the hospital/path group directly because this managing partner had a little side business going on and he didn't want anyone else knowing about it. ...

LADoc, was that you?
 
In-office labs dont seem so bad after reading this person's experience.

Wouldn't feel so bad being exploited by them.
 
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