Update on Philadelphia docs not being paid

[Dr Mantis Toboggan]

Doctors at 3 Philly-area hospitals are pushing back after working for weeks without pay

Original thread was locked, but I thought the article was interesting. Note that Andrew Sama, the head of the new group which is offering the docs their back pay in exchange for signing at a lower hourly rate, is a past president of ACEP.

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[EM Junkie]

Not surprising. I’ve cancelled my ACEP membership and rejoined AAEM, and urge others to do the same.


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[NYEMMED]

Progressive Emergency Physicians and Andy Sama, is a horrible company to work for, and you better have a lawyer review those contracts. Every ED they have taken over has gotten unbarebely bad.

From the article:
“Andy Sama hung up on two reporters”, imagine what he does to his employees

 

[WilcoWorld]

Doctors at 3 Philly-area hospitals are pushing back after working for weeks without pay

Original thread was locked, but I thought the article was interesting. Note that Andrew Sama, the head of the new group which is offering the docs their back pay in exchange for signing at a lower hourly rate, is a past president of ACEP.

That sounds like coercion.

 

[miacomet]

Progressive Emergency Physicians and Andy Sama, is a horrible company to work for, and you better have a lawyer review those contracts. Every ED they have taken over has gotten unbarebely bad.

From the article:
“Andy Sama hung up on two reporters”, imagine what he does to his employees

Yup. I don't understand. Sama seems to have had a million scandals, yet keeps coming back again and again with new groups etc. I don't get why hospitals take the bait. Looks like PEP just lost a contract for a hospital in Queens. Wonder what happened there?

 

[southerndoc]

Some of the contracts to hospitals are free to the hospital. You also have to wonder if there is shady under-the-table deals occurring sometimes (not making any accusations here). You also have to wonder if hospital administrators even care to do their research. They may have the wow factor during their presentation and just go with it.

 

[miacomet]

Sketch recruiter was constantly trying to get me to work for Sama. @NYEMMED, does his group pay well? How do they get docs?

 

[NYEMMED]

Sketch recruiter was constantly trying to get me to work for Sama. @NYEMMED, does his group pay well? How do they get docs?

The pay is on the lower end of average for NY. But pay along with contracts are highly variable. It seems there is lots of nepotism in the company. Every physician has a different contract, everyone gets paid differently. Many have made up administration titles allowing them to work less and make more than you.
The staffing model is highly PA driven. They like staffing multiple PAs to one attending, and short staffing the attendings.
I think they only get physicians due to big promises that then don’t pan out. The retention rate is low.

 

[miacomet]

The pay is on the lower end of average for NY. But pay along with contracts are highly variable. It seems there is lots of nepotism in the company. Every physician has a different contract, everyone gets paid differently. Many have made up administration titles allowing them to work less and make more than you.
The staffing model is highly PA driven. They like staffing multiple PAs to one attending, and short staffing the attendings.
I think they only get physicians due to big promises that then don’t pan out. The retention rate is low.

That's insane. Such a scam. Thanks for the info. I know they just lost a contract.

 

[Indebt4Life]

Not surprising. I’ve cancelled my ACEP membership and rejoined AAEM, and urge others to do the same.


Sent from my iPhone using SDN mobile

That's great. Bump

 

[NYEMMED]

That's insane. Such a scam. Thanks for the info. I know they just lost a contract.

They lost a contract in Queens, but the took one away from USACS in Long Island. From what I here that hospital has buyers remorse and wants out of the contract already (it’s been almost one year) but they are locked in until it expires. Not sure on the expiration date though.

 

[miacomet]

They lost a contract in Queens, but the took one away from USACS in Long Island. From what I here that hospital has buyers remorse and wants out of the contract already (it’s been almost one year) but they are locked in until it expires. Not sure on the expiration date though.

Worse than USACS is quite the indictment, I must say. Wow.

 

[GeneralVeers]

Worse than USACS is quite the indictment, I must say. Wow.

Too bad. I wish USACS would take all of the contracts in the NorthEast and leave Texas/Florida/Nevada alone.

 

[Apollyon]

There's a guy that works with us casual that was working for USACS - and they (USACS) dumped a location where they said they weren't making money. This guy thought he would cash out his 75,000 shares (to the tune of $60K). Guess what? Yeah, nothing. And, he said, he was told on 20 December that his health insurance ended...21 December. Not even end of the month.

 

[miacomet]

There's a guy that works with us casual that was working for USACS - and they (USACS) dumped a location where they said they weren't making money. This guy thought he would cash out his 75,000 shares (to the tune of $60K). Guess what? Yeah, nothing. And, he said, he was told on 20 December that his health insurance ended...21 December. Not even end of the month.

I feel like USACS is a bubble that is bursting. Once the VC runs out, they won't be able to earn enough to make it worth it. That's awful, though. Ugh. Only worth working as a per diem for them.

 

[Apollyon]

I feel like USACS is a bubble that is bursting. Once the VC runs out, they won't be able to earn enough to make it worth it. That's awful, though. Ugh. Only worth working as a per diem for them.

Not even.

 

[NYEMMED]

There's a guy that works with us casual that was working for USACS - and they (USACS) dumped a location where they said they weren't making money. This guy thought he would cash out his 75,000 shares (to the tune of $60K). Guess what? Yeah, nothing. And, he said, he was told on 20 December that his health insurance ended...21 December. Not even end of the month.

The worse part is that guy probably paid about $32,000 in taxes for those shares when he received them and gets nothing back in return when you leave

 

[emergentmd]

"shares" in a company for a lower regional rate. So what can go wrong?

I don't get why docs do this. That is like working for a start up and paid in "shares" with no way of knowing if it is worth anything.

 

[Groove]

I hope their compensation is a little more fair in these other markets. I can't tell you how laughable it was when I was on the phone with the USACS guy recruiting in Greater Denver area. I want to say the rate was $140-150/hr. I finally got him to admit that the majority of their docs working at that rate were new graduates that I'm assuming didn't know their worth? I mean, why else would anyone work for that amount that wasn't on a partnership track with a SDG?

Caveat Emptor with these "equity" ownership pyramid groups. I have a friend who went to work in TX for a company that owned a bunch of FSEDs that went belly up and filed for bankruptcy last year. They were on this equity investment model and he sank somewhere to the tune of 200K. Last I heard, he gets zero back.

 

[GonnaBeADoc2222]

U-SUCK is the worst of the worst

 

[NYEMMED]

U-SUCK is the worst of the worst

Is USACS really worse than Teamhealth or any other CMG?

 

[RustedFox]

"shares" in a company for a lower regional rate. So what can go wrong?

I don't get why docs do this. That is like working for a start up and paid in "shares" with no way of knowing if it is worth anything.

Is USACS really worse than Teamhealth or any other CMG?

Yes.

 

[deuist]

Is USACS really worse than Teamhealth or any other CMG?

Yes

 

[NYEMMED]

Yes.

Yes

Yes.

Haha thanks.

Just as I have no experience with USACS, why is it worse?

 

[emergentmd]

I hope their compensation is a little more fair in these other markets. I can't tell you how laughable it was when I was on the phone with the USACS guy recruiting in Greater Denver area. I want to say the rate was $140-150/hr. I finally got him to admit that the majority of their docs working at that rate were new graduates that I'm assuming didn't know their worth? I mean, why else would anyone work for that amount that wasn't on a partnership track with a SDG?

Caveat Emptor with these "equity" ownership pyramid groups. I have a friend who went to work in TX for a company that owned a bunch of FSEDs that went belly up and filed for bankruptcy last year. They were on this equity investment model and he sank somewhere to the tune of 200K. Last I heard, he gets zero back.

Neighbors is not different than USACS. You are an "owner", get "shares". What they don't tell you is that you can't see the books. Have no real say in operations.

And what you own is part of the collections and nothing to do with the company. If they sell out, guess how much your "shares" are worth
Those shares are essentially worthless. No different than a promise that you will get a percentage of the profits.

Guess who defines what "Profit" means? Its surely not you. That FSER could have made 10 Mil last year after expenses but that doesn't mean the 10 Mil is distributed. 5 Mil could go to the real owners, 4 Mil could go towards another FSER, 1 Mil could go towards corporate operations that has nothing to do with your local branch. The only thing you get is a whole hell of alot more patients to see.

 

[emergentmd]

USACS from what I hear is by far the worse under the guise of being "Physician Owned"

Atleast TH and Emcare typically pay a market wage and typically won't enforce a noncompete.

 

[RustedFox]

That "Provider Career Advisor" would do well to pay attention to the things listed here.

 

[miacomet]

Vituity>TeamHealth>EmCare>>>>>>>USACS, PEP. Don't know much about Alteon and various other CMGs.
Much though I mock NYC, at least the below market wages there come with some combo of academic title, residents instead of midlevels, city benefits, and employee status. USACS in Denver offers none of these and a similar hourly. @NYEMMED may have it tough with the union nurses, but USACS is brutal.

 

[Groove]

Neighbors is not different than USACS. You are an "owner", get "shares". What they don't tell you is that you can't see the books. Have no real say in operations.

And what you own is part of the collections and nothing to do with the company. If they sell out, guess how much your "shares" are worth
Those shares are essentially worthless. No different than a promise that you will get a percentage of the profits.

Guess who defines what "Profit" means? Its surely not you. That FSER could have made 10 Mil last year after expenses but that doesn't mean the 10 Mil is distributed. 5 Mil could go to the real owners, 4 Mil could go towards another FSER, 1 Mil could go towards corporate operations that has nothing to do with your local branch. The only thing you get is a whole hell of alot more patients to see.

I flew down to TX to check out Neighbors when they were taking off and had an opportunity to buy into the operation. It REEKED of a pyramid scheme. Every time I would ask for details about the profit sharing or anything else they would evade and make it seem like a billion other docs were waiting in line, begging for a job with them and if I wanted it, I better jump on board quick and stop asking so many questions. I had a really bad feeling about it and am so glad I bailed at the last minute.

 

[MechEDoc]

Vituity>TeamHealth>satan>>EmCare>>>>>>>USACS, PEP. Don't know much about Alteon and various other CMGs.

While I jest, I'm not sure that this is too far from reality.

 

[deleted109597]

I'm fairly certain Satan would be at the front of that list, not in the middle.

 

[miacomet]

How do we get out of this field? I just see CMGs swallowing us all.

 

[DeadCactus]

Never heard of Vituity. What part of the country do they stomp around in and what makes them head of the pack?

 

[MechEDoc]

Never heard of Vituity. What part of the country do they stomp around in and what makes them head of the pack?

California Emergency Physicians rebranded themselves Vituity. Whatever that means.

 

[DeadCactus]

Got ya, thank you. Based on other rebrandings, it means they want to expand into other states and expand into the hospitalist and anesthesia game.

 

[miacomet]

Got ya, thank you. Based on other rebrandings, it means they want to expand into other states and expand into the hospitalist and anesthesia game.

BTDT if you look at their website, but yes, probably.

 

[GeneralVeers]

California Emergency Physicians rebranded themselves Vituity. Whatever that means.

Just started with them. They have aspirations to be a national player, whereas before they were primarily California and a few other states. They wanted to remove the "California" from their name, and also have something easily copyrightable. They hired some consulting/marketing firm to come up with the branding/logo. Seems kind of silly to me, almost like Otezla, and the other ridiculous drug names.

 

[miacomet]

Just started with them. They have aspirations to be a national player, whereas before they were primarily California and a few other states. They wanted to remove the "California" from their name, and also have something easily copyrightable. They hired some consulting/marketing firm to come up with the branding/logo. Seems kind of silly to me, almost like Otezla, and the other ridiculous drug names.

Do you like them? Do they pay?

 

[GeneralVeers]

Do you like them? Do they pay?

I haven't formed an opinion yet. The contract is new so they have started us at an hourly that is market competitive, but slightly below what I make at my other part time job. They supposedly will bring up the hourly once they go to RVUs when they collection data. I haven't had much interaction with management, and in fact it's been really hands off with them.

 

[southerndoc]

California Emergency Physicians rebranded themselves Vituity. Whatever that means.

For some reason I thought things were a decent shop to work for.

 

[miacomet]

For some reason I thought things were a decent shop to work for.

That's why they rank higher than Satan.