UQ-Ochsner 2014

[Medstart108]

And my rants are only poorly worded to you because you can't understand most of the words.

BOOM!

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[lyfe823]

As I have said many times - there isn't enough data to make any solid conclusions yet. The numbers are just too small. But that cuts both ways. saying 8.3% didn't match is deceptive. If that is 8.3% over the course of 5 years with 700 students matriculating that is a much bigger deal than 1 year and 24 students. Because small things can make a big swing. The first year class was 11 and all of them matched. Is a 100% match rate now stunning? Or is a combined 5.7% unmatched rate now suddenly so much better?

The point is you can't point at the numbers and say that they demonstrate clearly one thing or another. You can say that we are not guaranteed to match. And you can also say that the vast majority of us do. Now, the one bit of information I can add is simply this: I am not in the least bit surprised that those specific two that didn't match. As for what they did... I know at least one of them managed to score a late-start residency in Australia. I can provide much more detail, but in the interest of trying to maintain some privacy I'll leave it at that. Suffice it to say, whether you decide to believe me or not, I would not take those 2 not matching as any indicator of the program itself.

If you wish to try and take this data and compare it to a DO match rate, that's your prerogative. But for a few solid reasons that is comparing apples to oranges. Of course, if you feel like it is too much of a gamble, then that is a perfectly good reason for you not to pursue the program regardless of anything else.

Thank you for your input. Good to know about the other 2, 1 at least. I have spoken with some of the administrators at Ochsner and representatives for UQ. I tried to keep a very level head, knowing that their job is to lure students in. I came away not only impressed by their commitment to and belief in the program but shocked by the relative ease of reaching some of the program heads. It seems that with each year they keep making adjustments to better suit the needs of their students. I can see the match numbers improving as the program's name becomes more well-known and respected.

 

[nybgrus]

It seems that with each year they keep making adjustments to better suit the needs of their students.

This is undeniably true. And why I stayed with the program when I had serious second thought halfway through M1 year. I decided to stick it out and kept to it because of precisely this. It is unquestionable they started out under-prepared. But it still worked, and they genuinely significantly closed that gap they started with. And, to the best of my knowledge, are genuinely committed to improving the program and the ability of its graduates to match. Ochsner has been banking a huge amount of its success on this program (knowing full well that data show 30% of graduates and residents stay at the institutions where they train). Ochsner is pretty damned big. And incredibly well loved down here.

A story I like to tell and I don't know if I mentioned it here but when Katrina hit, Ochsner was the only hospital that was able to stay open the whole time. It never closed. And afterwards, when over 25% of their workforce was displaced, the board decided to continue paying every employee's full salary for 1 year regardless of whether they could work or not.

People around these parts just really love Ochsner.

 

[anniejulissa]

Can you practice in Texas if you go to UQ-Ochsner

 

[nybgrus]

Can you practice in Texas if you go to UQ-Ochsner

To the best of my knowledge you can. None of our graduates have gone to Texas yet, but there was nothing that I was ever aware of that it would be a problem. CA and NY were the only two states with known issues and CA is finally no longer an issue. NY is (though I haven't had an update on it in over a year, so I don't know precisely where it stands) until the application goes through the process. What I do know about NY is that everything is in order, it just needs to get through the bureaucracy which was supposed to be 1-2 years or so (and that was a year ago).

 

[nybgrus]

Seriously starting to wonder if you even went to UQ, or if you are just this out of touch with reality. You do realize that Australian medical schools are FAR harder for domestic Australians to get into than for internationals right? Your comment that only a handful of Australians could score above a 30 on the MCAT is pretty ignorant and ethnocentric. There are plenty of Aussie gunners who would crush the MCAT pretty hard. Also the fact that you think women are less intelligent or are given a lower standard of admission than men to medical school as though they are an underrepresented minority is completely laughable and way off the mark considering most North American medical schools are MAJORITY women and have been for several years.

It seems that QLDKing is a racist and a misogynist on top of being a troll. I am actually profoundly disappointed that I am technically forced to call you a colleague.

 

[ScatmanCrothers]

Nybgrus, first of all I just want to say thanks a ton for sharing all of your expertise. I just spent about 3 hours reading through this thread and am getting very excited about the prospect of attending the UQ-Ochsner program, but I still have a couple questions I was hoping you or someone else could answer.

1. I am hoping to eventually work in emergency medicine, a specialty that allows for many travel opportunities around the US which I fully hope to take advantage of. For example, one ED physician I work with just took a 6 month leave where he and his wife simply traveled all over the country, and he used a third party company to set him up working ~2 days a week at random ED's as they traveled around to finance the vacation. I would love to do something like this eventually, as one of my favorite things to do is travel around in my RV and rock climb, but all of the state licensing issues UQ seems to present are a bit concerning. I know UQ-O grads can now obtain full license in CA and in most other states, but how difficult is it to obtain this license? Do I have to apply for license individually to each state, and can I hold more than one license at a time? Is it feasible to obtain license in most (if not all) states at once so I can do this sort of traveling?

2. In one of your posts back on page 2 or 3, you made the comment, "know whether you want to eventually practice in the US, Australia, or internationally." I am just wondering what exactly your definition of practicing internationally would be, and what your suggestion would be in that case. I am definitely hoping to return to the US to practice eventually as a sort of home base, but perhaps my biggest interest in medicine is in international emergency medicine, as I am a travel junky and enjoy working in places where I am most needed.

 

[nybgrus]

Nybgrus, first of all I just want to say thanks a ton for sharing all of your expertise. I just spent about 3 hours reading through this thread and am getting very excited about the prospect of attending the UQ-Ochsner program, but I still have a couple questions I was hoping you or someone else could answer.

1. I am hoping to eventually work in emergency medicine, a specialty that allows for many travel opportunities around the US which I fully hope to take advantage of. For example, one ED physician I work with just took a 6 month leave where he and his wife simply traveled all over the country, and he used a third party company to set him up working ~2 days a week at random ED's as they traveled around to finance the vacation. I would love to do something like this eventually, as one of my favorite things to do is travel around in my RV and rock climb, but all of the state licensing issues UQ seems to present are a bit concerning. I know UQ-O grads can now obtain full license in CA and in most other states, but how difficult is it to obtain this license? Do I have to apply for license individually to each state, and can I hold more than one license at a time? Is it feasible to obtain license in most (if not all) states at once so I can do this sort of traveling?

2. In one of your posts back on page 2 or 3, you made the comment, "know whether you want to eventually practice in the US, Australia, or internationally." I am just wondering what exactly your definition of practicing internationally would be, and what your suggestion would be in that case. I am definitely hoping to return to the US to practice eventually as a sort of home base, but perhaps my biggest interest in medicine is in international emergency medicine, as I am a travel junky and enjoy working in places where I am most needed.

Hi there, glad to have been of some help.

1. As it stands right now NY is the only state left that is still an issue. I do not have updates on that, but in the same way CA became not a problem, so too will NY. Beyond that, licensing will be essentially no different between states than if you had your degree from a US med school. Regardless of where you graduated you will still be subject to state licensure requirements if you change states (there is small variability but nothing more than a different fee and/or a different form). The main difference for any IMG will be credentials. However, the FSMB acts as a repository for all your credentials as an IMG and, once you have them all completed, verified, and the FSMB fee paid then any time you apply for a new state license you just pay $70 (IIRC) and they send all your stuff directly to the state medical board and that's about it. So really the biggest difference is some extra cash to get things done, which does suck, but it really isn't that big a deal.

Conceivably there could be changes in the future and state boards provide licenses at their discretion, so it could so happen that a state could decide not to grant you a license, or all IMG's, or possibly, just UQ grads. However this is highly unlikely to be the case and would certainly ruffle a lot of feathers if it did happen. This is, IMHO, nothing more than a purely hypothetical concern.

TL;DR: Don't sweat traveling around in your RV and being a dudebro EM badass.

2. Practicing internationally would mean actually settling down in a foreign land and setting up shop on more than just an "I"m a traveler having fun doing locum work" basis. I think that doing what you are wanting to do won't be particularly helped nor hindered by where you get your degree from. Though obviously certain specific things may have more or less of an advantage I don't personally know of any systematic advantage or disadvantage to doing relief and/or travel work regardless of where you get your medical degree from.

To give some context and idea... America has a very big and very undeserved superiority complex. As an anecdote, one of the pediatric heme/onc guys I worked with as a med student at Ochsner (great guy, super smart) is originally from Chicago. His really good friend also. The friend did undergrad in the US, med school at Oxford, residency in Canada, and then pediatric intensivist fellowship at Harvard*. He finally decided to go back to Chicago to practice and settle down back home. The medical board decided to make him repeat his intern year of pediatrics in order to get licensed. He had a few choice words for that and ditched 'Murrica for Australia. This was all before the UQ-O link and was just coincidence that it happened to be Australia.

Point being is that the rest of the world accepts respected medical degrees as respected medical degrees (and training). The US thinks their $hit don't stink and thinks anyone not US trained is automatically inferior, at least to some degree and in some way. So for travel work it doesn't matter much. But for actually settling down, it is actually much easier to emigrate to the US and get permanent residency or citizenship than most other countries in the world, including Aus. So having a degree from UQ will likely give you a leg up on settling down in a foreign land, particularly Aus. Though I wouldn't think it is a huge advantage, nor always there, but overall likely some.

Hope that helps and best of luck!

*I may be getting some of that not exactly right since it was a while ago he told me the story, but the point being he did med and residency in foreign but otherwise well respected countries, and fellowship at Harvard.

 

[pre med 2014]

Yea you wouldn't be an international emergency medicine doctor, you would be an emergency medicine doctor who did their training in another country. With a medical degree from Australia it is possible to go do your training in the UK or Singapore for example, certainly there are more international options than with a degree from the states. However, if you did do your training in the UK or anywhere else outside Australia you wouldn't be able to go back to the exceptional America without retraining. By your tone it sounds like your intention would be eventually to return to the states since it's better there, but I wouldn't do training outside the US unless you are committed to potentially never going back to the US, at least not without retraining for a year or more.

You would be better off training in the US, you will make half as much money but you would be guaranteed to stay in the states.

 

[ScatmanCrothers]

Great, thanks for the replies guys! I think I am definitely going to apply for the 2016 cycle.

I do have one last question though if you wouldn't mind weighing in. Even though UQ-Ochsner seems like a great option, there are a couple schools here in the states that I have applied to for Fall 2015 that I have not heard back from and would consider prioritizing over UQ-Ochsner, including one interview at the end of January. I want to apply early to UQ Ochsner to have the best chance of getting in, but I don't want to put myself in a position where I would have to put down my deposit before hearing back from these other schools. Considering that it sounds like many people have been accepted within a week or two of submitting their application, and there is a 42 day time period to submit the deposit after acceptance, I am thinking about submitting my application around mid January. I figure that will give me until around a March 1 deadline at the earliest to make my decision if I am offered a spot, and I figure by that time any schools that have not offered me a spot are probably never going to. What do you guys think of this plan, given my core credentials outlined below and how competitive of an applicant this makes me to UQ Ochsner?

cGPA 3.12 sGPA: 2.8
Biopsychology B.S. from UC Santa Barbara
MCAT 36
1 year as a mental health counselor at a psychiatric center
1 year as a volunteer research assistant in a neuropharmacology lab (without publication)
1.5 years as an emergency department scribe
6 months as a volunteer scribe at a non profit family healthcare clinic in my underserved city

 

[pre med 2014]

What are you talking about? If you don't want to apply to Ochsner until 2016 cycle you can go through your normal app cycle as per your plan for fall 2015. Assuming it was a typo and you mean that you are applying now to start this January then no you won't have time, to go to interviews at the same time as doing all the leg work to start life in another country (VISA, bank accounts, etc...) will be a real pain. I think there have been a couple of people who left the 1st month after getting an acceptance back in the states but it like a real pain in the a$$. You spend more money, fly all over the place and delay graduation 6 months, and in the end you'll probably have the same result in terms of what residency you get. And certainly with no difference in education quality.

With your 36 MCAT you're obviously good at standardized tests, meaning you'll do good on the usmle, meaning you'll have something to overcome international stigma when applying for residency.

With the poor GPA but excellent MCAT it's about 50/50 MD, and most likely some DO. You have to weigh all your options and where you are in life. If you enjoy travel and not the conventional pre-med then going to Australia will be enjoyable for you.

 

[pre med 2014]

I see what you're saying, I don't think UQ starts applications till June. You won't be able to apply in January.

 

[nybgrus]

Yea you wouldn't be an international emergency medicine doctor, you would be an emergency medicine doctor who did their training in another country. With a medical degree from Australia it is possible to go do your training in the UK or Singapore for example, certainly there are more international options than with a degree from the states. However, if you did do your training in the UK or anywhere else outside Australia you wouldn't be able to go back to the exceptional America without retraining. By your tone it sounds like your intention would be eventually to return to the states since it's better there, but I wouldn't do training outside the US unless you are committed to potentially never going back to the US, at least not without retraining for a year or more.

You would be better off training in the US, you will make half as much money but you would be guaranteed to stay in the states.

Yes, an excellent point about training (vs. education). One thing to add though is that you could potentially do your internship in Australia immediately after graduating from UQ-O and that way you get your full reg in Australia then go to the US and do residency to actually complete your training. I wouldn't bank on that though since the Australian government redid their preferencing schema in such a way that UQ-O grads are dead last in terms of priority. Which, to be honest, is absolutely fair IMHO.

 

[pre med 2014]

^That's why I'm trying to find a smoking hot Australian wife so I can move up to 1st priority for internship. Anyone have any tips on how to intrigue an Australian woman??

 

[nybgrus]

Great, thanks for the replies guys! I think I am definitely going to apply for the 2016 cycle.

I do have one last question though if you wouldn't mind weighing in. Even though UQ-Ochsner seems like a great option, there are a couple schools here in the states that I have applied to for Fall 2015 that I have not heard back from and would consider prioritizing over UQ-Ochsner, including one interview at the end of January. I want to apply early to UQ Ochsner to have the best chance of getting in, but I don't want to put myself in a position where I would have to put down my deposit before hearing back from these other schools. Considering that it sounds like many people have been accepted within a week or two of submitting their application, and there is a 42 day time period to submit the deposit after acceptance, I am thinking about submitting my application around mid January. I figure that will give me until around a March 1 deadline at the earliest to make my decision if I am offered a spot, and I figure by that time any schools that have not offered me a spot are probably never going to. What do you guys think of this plan, given my core credentials outlined below and how competitive of an applicant this makes me to UQ Ochsner?

cGPA 3.12 sGPA: 2.8
Biopsychology B.S. from UC Santa Barbara
MCAT 36
1 year as a mental health counselor at a psychiatric center
1 year as a volunteer research assistant in a neuropharmacology lab (without publication)
1.5 years as an emergency department scribe
6 months as a volunteer scribe at a non profit family healthcare clinic in my underserved city

I have always said that, for those who are wanting to stay in the States, doing med school in the States is still the best option. It is safer, more likely to land you a residency, and more likely to land you a competitive residency. That's just simply a fact and a reflection of that wonderful American exceptionalism.

However, it is also becoming less and less true overall and, I believe, even more so with UQ-O. I happen to know that a large number of the students graduating this week (awww... they're all grown up now!) have more interviews than they know what to do with. And at least two of them are applying for surgery. I was just out having a couple of beers with them last Friday and one of my friends applying to gen surg has 22 interview offers. She did well on her USMLE's and is a strong applicant, of course, but she didn't get above a 250 (IIRC). A number of other people applying to OB, gen surg, and medicine that I know of have at least 10-15 interviews apiece.

I truly think that as more and more programs get to know our graduates and our program a lot of that stigma of IMG will fade and there is some early evidence that this is already starting to happen. In my own residency at Ochsner right now I still hear from time to time from the upper levels and even attendings how impressed they are with the 3rd and 4th year UQ-O students often saying how much noticeably better they are than their Tulane and LSU counterparts*.

I also know that there are actually a number of people in the program currently who also genuinely wanted to do UQ-O over US programs that they had opportunities to go to and even some who didn't apply in the US because they were so interested in UQ-O. TBH I think that sort of zeal is a bit premature, but at the same time it is folks like that who will undoubtedly up the game of the program and its students.

One of the main (legit) reasons training programs in the US very commonly give preference to a US grad over an IMG is because they simply don't know what the education and caliber of these foreign students is like. Or, in the case of places like Ross and SGU, they do and it pigeonholes them a fair bit. I think that the UQ-O program itself and its grads are uniquely positioned to overcome those hurdles. After all, Ochsner is literally the medical care institution of the Gulf South. They've poured literally tens if not hundreds of millions of dollars directly and indirectly into the program. And, as I said, our students and grads really do impress folks when given a chance.

All of this wonderfulness does need to be balanced though, with the realization that certain specialties will almost certainly be forever at a disadvantage for any IMG. And even though UQ-O may well be at less a disadvantage than other IMG programs, because of the nature of things it will never be even close to an even playing field. The two that I personally think will always be like that are ortho and ophthal. Probably ENT, neurosurgery, and radonc as well, actually. And then after that derm. Besides the fact that those are traditionally extremely competitive specialties and very, very close knit groups the big thing about them is that there simply aren't that many training spots in the entire country in order to have an appreciable shift in mentality. For example, all the ortho programs in the country combined offer only about a total of 6,000 interviews. That many people apply to Cedars-Sinai internal medicine program alone, with about 400 interviews. So if you get the top 10-15 biggest IM programs (out of around 380 or so) that's already as many interviews as all of ortho. There simply isn't the wiggle room to give more preference to IMG's since the US competition is already so incredibly fierce.

Additionally, there is much less opportunity for truly academic medical career tracks if you are an IMG (for similar reasons, plus some "boys club" attitude that is arguably worse than in the competitive specialties I mentioned above). Now, how much that matters to you... you probably don't know. Chances are not too much. My best friend ended up opting for a 3rd tier US program because he was gung-ho on an academic track. He ended up matching into a top 10 ophthal program and is still interested in academics, but much less so these days. And nowadays there are great ways to have "hybrid" careers where you aren't truly "academic medicine" but you still do a fair bit of research along with your clinical practice. That is what I am interested in doing.

So at the end of the day, my message is this: if you are really dead-set on any of the stuff in the previous two paragraphs then your goal should be to take your time and work your ass off to stay in the US for your education. If you don't know, then at least for now, a US program still should probably have at least a slight edge for you over the UQ-O program. But that given a few years, except for the caveats I listed above, that edge should get smaller and smaller. But, once again IMHO, in terms of an international program, I don't think there are any that can compete with UQ-O (in terms of getting you back stateside).

I shot myself in the foot when applying to US schools because despite my 38 on the MCAT, two degrees graduating with honors (cGPA 3.7, sGPA 3.5), I still couldn't get in because of many factors that I won't get into since this is already long enough. UQ-O gave me an unparalleled opportunity that I am running with and currently absolutely love being a doctor and an intern at Ochsner right now (it's my day off which is why I can ramble over my coffee). And it would be silly to try and argue that for many people doing any international program, even UQ-O, there isn't some aspect of that in their decision to go to UQ-O. Though I think it is not the majority nor are the demographics like Ross and SGU as this program attracts a lot of other people for many different reasons.

So bear all that in mind and, FWIW, my own beliefs (shared by many, including those who count much more than I do) that UQ-O has the potential, and is actively realizing it, to be a truly premier international program and a legitimate first option over at least bottom tier US schools. It's just not quite there yet.

Oh, and I guess I should answer your question about how competitive you are based on those stats... and the answer is, I dunno. The program has become more competitive over time and I know of people who were indeed rejected. You certainly are not particularly competitive, nor are you even remotely unlikely to get a spot. The one thing that sort of sucks though is that your extra-curricular activity doesn't count for too much. UQ's general admissions paradigm (even for domestic students) is almost entirely based on numbers. Ochsner is injecting a bit more of the subjective and extra curricular stuff into it, so there will certainly be some more help there, but it won't count nearly as much as it would for a US program.

*To be clear I am not trying to bag on Tulane or LSU, merely focusing on the legitimate and kind praise we have been getting.

 

[nybgrus]

I see what you're saying, I don't think UQ starts applications till June. You won't be able to apply in January.

In terms of application cycles, you are spot on. Applications next year for 2016 will open in Feb/March. Apply in March/April and you'll have your answer about US schools in plenty of time.

 

[nybgrus]

^That's why I'm trying to find a smoking hot Australian wife so I can move up to 1st priority for internship. Anyone have any tips on how to intrigue an Australian woman??

Not hard at all! LOL. They love our crazy foreign accent. Plus, in general, Aussie blokes are kind of a$$holes and the Aussie ladies just love anyone that is even remotely nice or gentlemanly. Seriously, I was surprised by it, but you will have very little issue meeting plenty of very nice (and very pretty) Aussie girls if that's what you are looking for. I have not been single since before med school (and am getting married to the same girl next year) so I couldn't fully explore those realities, but even then it was still obvious to me personally. And I did get to hear stories over beers with my single friends.

 

[derpina]

@nybgrus Question about practicing in NY: if they don't get approval by the time you graduate, will you ever be able to practice? When is the cutoff? Is it when you start the program, when you graduate, or is it retroactive?

 

[nybgrus]

@nybgrus Question about practicing in NY: if they don't get approval by the time you graduate, will you ever be able to practice? When is the cutoff? Is it when you start the program, when you graduate, or is it retroactive?

In CA the approval was retroactive to the beginning of the program. I am very nearly certain it is the same for NY and honestly it is the only thing that really makes sense. But since NY was not my particular passion, I did not immerse myself in the detailed nitty gritty of it like I did CA and I don't remember the details I did know vividly enough to be 100% confident off the top of my head. I'm 99% confident though that it shan't be a problem.

 

[ScatmanCrothers]

In terms of application cycles, you are spot on. Applications next year for 2016 will open in Feb/March. Apply in March/April and you'll have your answer about US schools in plenty of time.

Really? I am looking on the website right now and it says applications are now being accepted for January 2016. Are they just saying this to encourage you to get your materials in this early even though they don't start looking at applications until February/March?

Thanks again for the very thorough responses guys. I am very impressed by what UQ-O has to offer, and would possibly even choose it over the US schools I am waiting to hear from. I just want to be able to take my time and fully weigh all of my options, and I am also hoping to glean more information about the US programs once I actually visit the campuses during interviews (if I get more than the one I have), before I am forced to make a decision.

 

[nybgrus]

Really? I am looking on the website right now and it says applications are now being accepted for January 2016. Are they just saying this to encourage you to get your materials in this early even though they don't start looking at applications until February/March?

Thanks again for the very thorough responses guys. I am very impressed by what UQ-O has to offer, and would possibly even choose it over the US schools I am waiting to hear from. I just want to be able to take my time and fully weigh all of my options, and I am also hoping to glean more information about the US programs once I actually visit the campuses during interviews (if I get more than the one I have), before I am forced to make a decision.

Hmm... it seems that they have changed things up a bit. In the past they would accept applications as late as December for the upcoming January intake. We complained about this as being rather unfair for a few different reasons and that they should close applications earlier than that. Seems like they listened.

But yes, if you read the page it says:

If we have received any documents on your behalf and you decide to apply for 2016, you will receive an e-mail early in 2015 detailing the documents we currently have on file for you and what documents are required to complete your application. Please note that some documents may change and will be required to be resubmitted.

I read that as saying that they will accept your app and documents now and just hold them until early in 2015. It seems things have changed since I was more directly involved with all this stuff since that wasn't an option before, so I guess I can't be certain, but I am pretty sure that they aren't going to accept you for the Jan 2016 class in 2014. That just doesn't fit with the general timeline of applications and acceptances for UQ SoM in general.

I should also add (since it doesn't seem to be on the MEP page in my quick skim) that there will be interviews implemented at some point. It won't be from UQ but it will be from Ochsner. I know that they are working out the details of how to do this and exactly the format and logistics, so it may not happen for the 2016 intake but it will happen by the 2017 at the latest (and probably for the 2016). It will not require anyone to go to Australia. In fact, it likely won't require anyone to go anywhere, since video conferencing interviews were part of the conversation from the beginning.

 

[foody]

@nybgrus speaks the truth. I have used all his posts to make my decision to attend UQ-Ochsner. Have confidence in what he says.

Regarding the early closure of applications for 2015. The reason they closed applications early, is the class is full. I believe it became full sometime in early october (forums say around the 14th)? Not too sure but this year admissions found it surprising that it filled up so fast this early. It's rolling admissions till all seats are taken. This program is getting more popular and competitive, I would say maybe because of the new MD program (man people are obsessed with just a title) and buzz with previous classes doing so well.

If you're really serious about applying I would send in your materials now. You don't want be regretting you didn't if for some reason the class fills up and you waited. If you want to take a chance go for it but up to you.

Also I've heard the interview is a definite requirement for the new application cycle. At least I presume it to be because they almost brought it in in 2014. Read the document that california board made about it's approval..floating somewhere on here. But the best bet is confirm with admissions.

Also regarding competitiveness, I hope those gpa calculations include all retakes. UQ does not care whether you've repeated a class or not, they count ALL classes. With those stats, you're golden on the mcat and gpa will only rank you in a list. If it was me, I'd still apply early.

 

[ScatmanCrothers]

Thanks for the input guys. I will have to put some thought into it, but will definitely submit by the end of January at the latest.

 

[pitman]

I also know that there are actually a number of people in the program currently who also genuinely wanted to do UQ-O over US programs that they had opportunities to go to and even some who didn't apply in the US because they were so interested in UQ-O. TBH I think that sort of zeal is a bit premature, but at the same time it is folks like that who will undoubtedly up the game of the program and its students.

It may be they're expressing their romantic tendency, a belief in the adventure over any fixed future, similar to why I and a few others I know chose to come to Australia. Not that I'm advocating this for others, but such people do exist.

 

[foody]

Where are classes and practicals held if the medical school is a heritage site now? When do we get the curriculum?

 

[Enkolo]

Where are classes and practicals held if the medical school is a heritage site now? When do we get the curriculum?

Hey I just finished first year in UQ Ochsner. Lectures and pracs like anatomy, histology, etc are all held on the St. Lucia campus of UQ. The clinical skills are at either PA hospital or Royal Brisbane Hospital and there are several workshops held at Royal Brisbane Hospital during the year. Majority of first year time is spent at St. Lucia campus though.

 

[derpina]

Hey I just finished first year in UQ Ochsner. Lectures and pracs like anatomy, histology, etc are all held on the St. Lucia campus of UQ. The clinical skills are at either PA hospital or Royal Brisbane Hospital and there are several workshops held at Royal Brisbane Hospital during the year. Majority of first year time is spent at St. Lucia campus though.

What are you thoughts on the program?

 

[nybgrus]

@nybgrus speaks the truth. I have used all his posts to make my decision to attend UQ-Ochsner. Have confidence in what he says.

Thank you for the kind words. I really have endeavored to try and offer a fair and balanced point of view, knowing that there will always be some bias not matter how hard I try, but trying nonetheless.

and buzz with previous classes doing so well.

This match ought to be good as well. I happen to know one person applying for neurology has been turning down interviews since she has gotten over 25 offers. Another two applying for general surgery are somewhere in the teens. Some OBs/gyners are already at or near the double digits. And my friend applying to ortho has gotten 2 interviews so far... not including Ochsner (and it is early in the season for ortho). Point being is that it can be done.

If you're really serious about applying I would send in your materials now. You don't want be regretting you didn't if for some reason the class fills up and you waited. If you want to take a chance go for it but up to you.

I'll have to defer to you here since I am far removed from the nuts and bolts of applying. Though I would be surprised if applying in Feb or even March would put you in a particularly worse position.

Also I've heard the interview is a definite requirement for the new application cycle. At least I presume it to be because they almost brought it in in 2014. Read the document that california board made about it's approval..floating somewhere on here. But the best bet is confirm with admissions.

I knew that this was very likely since I was part of the original conversations about it. Seems that they have cemented things more since I was last involved. And yes, it is directly because of California. The only thing that James Nuovo of UC Davis (who was the person put in charge of reviewing the application) could hang his hat on to deny us was the lack of an interview. In my not so humble opinion on the matter he acted in a purely obstructionist manner, not even knowing basic salient details of the program when it was time to present it to the MBC for approval. Facts that were plainly in the application for approval which anyone who had casually perused it, let alone have been in charge of reviewing in detail for the Board, should have known. His report spent minimal time on the fact that for just about every metric by which the MBC judges the merit of a school UQ-O exceeded their requirements and yet spent inordinate time blasting us for not having an interview nor a separate background check. His recommendation was to not even do a site visit for approval which, thankfully, the board thought was silly. In the end though, his obstructionism was for naught and the program received the unanimous approval we expected. With the caveat of interviews being required.

As a side note the keynote speaker at this year's graduation of the 2014 class was the CEO of the ACGME, who gave an excellent address and praised the program highly.

 

[Enkolo]

What are you thoughts on the program?

So far I would say I agree with opinions stated by nybgrus and phloston about UQ. I've found the majority of professors, doctors, and students I've interacted with are very enthusiastic and knowledgeable. However, there are a lot of administration issues. Which are very annoying at the time but aren't a big deal when considering the big picture. I found microbiology and pharmacology to be lacking during first year. Physiology, anatomy, and clinical education were the best quality. In my opinion certain topics were over or under covered, although I think this happens everywhere when lecturers have specific research interests.

Overall I've really enjoyed the program and have found the downsides to be in small detail. Put in effort to study and learn the material. Perhaps study a bit more broadly then what is covered in course material. If you do this you should be successful and enjoy first year here.

Note that the curriculum is changing from a two pass model to a one pass model for the class starting in January 2015. So some of my experience may not be relevant to the new way of doing things.

 

[torontopharm]

Not hard at all! LOL. They love our crazy foreign accent. Plus, in general, Aussie blokes are kind of a$$holes and the Aussie ladies just love anyone that is even remotely nice or gentlemanly. Seriously, I was surprised by it, but you will have very little issue meeting plenty of very nice (and very pretty) Aussie girls if that's what you are looking for. I have not been single since before med school (and am getting married to the same girl next year) so I couldn't fully explore those realities, but even then it was still obvious to me personally. And I did get to hear stories over beers with my single friends.

Hey i was curious about this..Wouldn't your spot as an international student at Australia med schools be revoked if you married someone Australia during your studies? I heard that your internship chances are based on your immigration status at the time of enrollment.

 

[cjfarrell21]

So far I would say I agree with opinions stated by nybgrus and phloston about UQ. I've found the majority of professors, doctors, and students I've interacted with are very enthusiastic and knowledgeable. However, there are a lot of administration issues. Which are very annoying at the time but aren't a big deal when considering the big picture. I found microbiology and pharmacology to be lacking during first year. Physiology, anatomy, and clinical education were the best quality. In my opinion certain topics were over or under covered, although I think this happens everywhere when lecturers have specific research interests.

Overall I've really enjoyed the program and have found the downsides to be in small detail. Put in effort to study and learn the material. Perhaps study a bit more broadly then what is covered in course material. If you do this you should be successful and enjoy first year here.

Note that the curriculum is changing from a two pass model to a one pass model for the class starting in January 2015. So some of my experience may not be relevant to the new way of doing things.

Could you elaborate on what you mean by a "one pass model" vs. "two pass model"? I'm not so familiar with the terms...

 

[Enkolo]

Could you elaborate on what you mean by a "one pass model" vs. "two pass model"? I'm not so familiar with the terms...

UQ uses a system-based curriculum. The "two pass model" means that each system will be covered twice. The first time (during M1) covers normal physiology, anatomy, etc while the second pass (M2) focuses on pathology of the system. When I say "one pass model" I mean that everything (anatomy, physiology, histology, pathology, pharmacology, etc) is covered at the same time. The result is that each organ system is covered once during the first two years. So if respiratory was the first unit that will be the only time the material will be seen during M1 and M2.

I hope this clears up your question.

 

[pitman]

I heard that your internship chances are based on your immigration status at the time of enrollment.

No, your Priority status (in Qld at least) is determined by your immigration status at the time of the Internship Ballot -- Priority 4 if you apply as a non-permanent-resident in a Qld med school, and Priority 1 if as a permanent resident (same as for citizens) in a Qld med school. You may be thinking of the federal 10 Year Moratorium, which applies to any doctor who was not a permanent resident at the time that they started medical school.

It used to be that if you became a PR while at UQ, you could get a HECS subsidized spot if one freed up (i.e., a domestic student left UQ, or more failed from your year than failed the year above), with priority given by grade point average if there were more students seeking the subsidized spots than were available. If there wasn't one available, then you would become a full-fee domestic student (so you'd still pay int'l fees, but would be P1 in the Ballot). However, this was a number of years ago, and I don't know what the policy is now.

 

[cjfarrell21]

UQ uses a system-based curriculum. The "two pass model" means that each system will be covered twice. The first time (during M1) covers normal physiology, anatomy, etc while the second pass (M2) focuses on pathology of the system. When I say "one pass model" I mean that everything (anatomy, physiology, histology, pathology, pharmacology, etc) is covered at the same time. The result is that each organ system is covered once during the first two years. So if respiratory was the first unit that will be the only time the material will be seen during M1 and M2.

I hope this clears up your question.

yup it does thanks!

 

[DadofSnorf]

It may be they're expressing their romantic tendency, a belief in the adventure over any fixed future, similar to why I and a few others I know chose to come to Australia. Not that I'm advocating this for others, but such people do exist.

I'm a couple years from applying, but I'm definitely one of them.

 

[deleted455728]

Hey guys Im a new poster here, been reading for a while. Im planning on applying for 2016 as well.

One aspect that I didnt realize until I called and talked to MedPath was that UQ only looks at your gpa from your latest degree. That is huge for me, because I had a sub 3 undergrad GPA and now will be finishing my masters program in July with above a 3.5 gpa.

Granted, my mcat and extra curriculars are also solid, but still this is a saving grace.

Anyways, nice to meet all of you

 

[deleted158872]

Point being is that the rest of the world accepts respected medical degrees as respected medical degrees (and training). The US thinks their $hit don't stink and thinks anyone not US trained is automatically inferior, at least to some degree and in some way.

So having a degree from UQ will likely give you a leg up on settling down in a foreign land, particularly Aus. Though I wouldn't think it is a huge advantage, nor always there, but overall likely some.

i have 2 things in mind when i read this :

1/ don't most first-world countries reserve their internship/job spots for their citizens first? i think that if i graduate from US med school and want to practice in the UK, I'll have to redo internship there. correct me if i'm wrong.

2/ how flexible is a degree from UQ? my eventual plan is to practice in the UK, do you think a UQ degree allows for that?

 

[nybgrus]

i have 2 things in mind when i read this :

1/ don't most first-world countries reserve their internship/job spots for their citizens first? i think that if i graduate from US med school and want to practice in the UK, I'll have to redo internship there. correct me if i'm wrong.

2/ how flexible is a degree from UQ? my eventual plan is to practice in the UK, do you think a UQ degree allows for that?

1: There is indeed a preference for their own citizens. Some public programs have specific requirements. In Australia they have an explicit rank order for preferencing intern positions with folks like UQ-O grads dead last (and yet still getting a couple of spots each year). In the US there is no such formal delineation (save some specific institutions funded by public monies). And there are some ~14k more residency training spots than US grads each year. I do not know about the UK.

As for whether you would have to redo intern year... I can't speak fully to that since it is not something I have researched extensively. In the US they certainly will make you redo the intern year. In Australia you will have to have some amount of supervised practice (assuming you are fully qualified from elsewhere) but exactly how long and the details I am unsure of, though it is not (to my knowledge) actually repeating an intern year.

By anecdote one of the peds heme-onc attendings at Ochsner had a friend from high school who went to medical school in Canada. Then did residency in the UK. Then did a peds intensivist fellowship at Harvard Mass General. When he tried to get a job back home in Chicago they wanted him to repeat his intern year of peds. He had a couple choice words and ultimately went off to Australia to practice.

I have no idea what it is like in the UK in this regard and I've shared with you the extent of what I do know in regards to Aus, so take it as the inexpert observation it is.

2: I think any medical degree is always quite flexible. I do think that a UQ degree will give you an upper hand in practicing in Aus, but I have no idea if it would be any different than having a degree from a US school. I think it will, considering they are both commonwealth based systems sharing a lot in common which much reciprocity, but I simply don't know enough to adequately answer your question.

 

[torontopharm]

No, your Priority status (in Qld at least) is determined by your immigration status at the time of the Internship Ballot -- Priority 4 if you apply as a non-permanent-resident in a Qld med school, and Priority 1 if as a permanent resident (same as for citizens) in a Qld med school. You may be thinking of the federal 10 Year Moratorium, which applies to any doctor who was not a permanent resident at the time that they started medical school.

It used to be that if you became a PR while at UQ, you could get a HECS subsidized spot if one freed up (i.e., a domestic student left UQ, or more failed from your year than failed the year above), with priority given by grade point average if there were more students seeking the subsidized spots than were available. If there wasn't one available, then you would become a full-fee domestic student (so you'd still pay int'l fees, but would be P1 in the Ballot). However, this was a number of years ago, and I don't know what the policy is now.

As of 2015, this still applies according to their website.
I have a further question about immigration status change though. For example, UQ states that international students become domestic full-fee paying students once you get your PR during med school.
So..once you get your PR during med school, you just "become" a domestic student? Wouldn't they pull the international student out of the program and tell them to apply to a domestic spot along with rest of the domestic students? I guess i'm trying to understand this transition better.

Wollongong for example states something similar:
If a student gains Australian permanent residency status or becomes a New Zealand citizen, they are unable to continue in the UOW MBBS programme as an international student. This is a requirement of the Australian Government and the GSM has no discretion in the situation. The student may be reconsidered as to their eligibility for a domestic place; however it should be noted that the domestic application process has different entry requirements and the student may not be eligible. There is no guarantee that a place will be available as they are limited by a quota set by the Federal Government. Ultimately a student changing their residency is likely to lose their place in the program altogether.

From my friends (n=2) who are currently at UQ, they specifically chose UQ because Wollongong is a "No go" if you're trying to get your PR during med school while UQ is. Having limited knowledge on this matter, I'm trying to understand their rationale behind it.

 

[RahX]

As of 2015, this still applies according to their website.
I have a further question about immigration status change though. For example, UQ states that international students become domestic full-fee paying students once you get your PR during med school.
So..once you get your PR during med school, you just "become" a domestic student? Wouldn't they pull the international student out of the program and tell them to apply to a domestic spot along with rest of the domestic students? I guess i'm trying to understand this transition better.

Wollongong for example states something similar:
If a student gains Australian permanent residency status or becomes a New Zealand citizen, they are unable to continue in the UOW MBBS programme as an international student. This is a requirement of the Australian Government and the GSM has no discretion in the situation. The student may be reconsidered as to their eligibility for a domestic place; however it should be noted that the domestic application process has different entry requirements and the student may not be eligible. There is no guarantee that a place will be available as they are limited by a quota set by the Federal Government. Ultimately a student changing their residency is likely to lose their place in the program altogether.

From my friends (n=2) who are currently at UQ, they specifically chose UQ because Wollongong is a "No go" if you're trying to get your PR during med school while UQ is. Having limited knowledge on this matter, I'm trying to understand their rationale behind it.

For UQ, you would have to submit your PR status to the student centre and they will change your status to domestic full fee paying within 2 weeks. You would not have to reapply for a position. The transition on your part is pretty much seamless. The only thing that will change is your fees and your rotation preferences in 3rd & 4th year, depending on when you get your PR. This only applies to students who are admitted to the program as an international and have not gotten PR before commencement.

 

[pitman]

After initiated by the Howard govt, there were a few years during the new Labor govt under Rudd when you couldn't have domestic full fee students, which put schools in a bind for any students getting PR -- if you are PR, you cannot legally be an international student, and the feds regulate how many susbsidised (HECS or whatever they now call it) spots there are. So many schools, like USyd, decided (for a while at least) that you'd be thrown out and have to re-apply as a domestic student if you got PR. It seems UQ somehow escaped having to be so Draconian. Maybe it was just lucky with how many failed vs. how many got PR for any particular class.