UQ-Ochsner 2022 Cohort

[TUWEST_509]

Stay away from the Uq/Ochsner program. The students who get into this program have competitive numbers, and these are students who would get in at a US MD or DO school if they just apppied earlier in the cycle and improved their essays. Even the Caribbean is a better option than this place, because they teach the same curriculums as US schools. The UQ FoM uses a bizarre ever-changing curriculum in which students spend hours drawing on each other’s faces (they call this “living anatomy” and attendance is mandatory). They do not teach biochemistry at UQ FoM, and they do not even have professors. Instead, students are taught by whatever out-of-work MDs sign up to be “tutors.” There are success stories, but you’re putting yourself at a disadvantage if you select this program. The 4-year graduation rate at UQ/Oschner is only 63%. Far below any US school and far below the 95% enjoyed by our Australian classmates.

Do you mind sharing your story @UQregret ? Are you a current or former UQ-Ochsner student? It seems like you had a problem with phase 1 in Brisbane. Was the Ochsner portion of the program any better?

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[UQregret]

Stay away from the UQ-Ochsner program. There are better options available. The students who get into this program have competitive numbers, and would likely get into a US Md or DO school if they reapplied earlier in the cycle, and improved their essays. The 4 year graduation rate at UQ-Ochsner is only 63%. That‘s far below any US school and far below the 95% enjoyed by our Australian classmates

This for-profit progrqm is designed to maximise revenue, with 500 students in each class. It is more expensive than any US school, and provides very little in return. Even the Caribbean schools are a better choice because they follow a US-based curriculums. The UQ FoM (faculty of medicine) has a disorganised curriculum designed by administrators who do not teach classes, or see patients. Their philosophy is that “Medical school is not about passing exams, it is about forming relationships with your colleagues.” They do not follow any textbooks. Students do not dissect cadavers, or ever even touch a microscope. Those things would cost money and eat into their profits.

They do not teach biochemistry at the UQ FoM. There are also no real professors. Instead, students are taught and graded by whatever out-of-work MDs sign up to be “tutors.” The majority of them are women who started families shortly after graduating from med school, stayed home to support their children, but then later decided to come back and teach part-time. Others went to med school in different countries and yet unable to get licensed in Australia. Some will share their stories of how they experience physician burn-out. They are mostly very nice people, but these are not the experts we expected to have as our teachers in medical school.

The UQ curriculum is very easy. At orientation, they gave a presentation about student wellbeing. One of the slides told us to “Only study 4 hours a day, then relax the rest of the day.” ...so that is what the Australian students do. They have time to work side jobs. They have book clubs where they discuss fiction novels. Any student who shows up for around 4 hours a day, and pays a reasonable amount of attention will do fine on the UQ exams. However, Ochsner students have to cover exponentially more material in order to pass US board exams. Ochsner students have to learn the Kreb cycle on their own, but still find time to memorize jellyfish species names, and the most common cause of ______ in northern Australian. We often hear our very relaxed Australian counterparts say things like, “I feel so sorry for you guys.”

...and don’t you dare get caught trying to study during a small group discussion (5-10 hours per week), or when you’re supposed to be finger painting on your classmates faces (they call this “living anatomy” and attendance is mandatory). That might offend one of the tutors, who can easily check a box and fail any student for any reason they wish. They are not required to provide any examples or follow any criteria.

37% of students who enter this program are left both academically, and financially devastated.

Ochsner is a pretty great hospital and it seems to be well loved by most of their patients. However, Ochsner is a big place with some good departments, and some bad ones. Also, it is not set up for teaching the like a University hospital. We just get get thrown in to follow residents who are far too busy to do much teaching.

There are some success stories, but you are putting yourself at a disadvantage if you choose this program. I’ll write another essay after I graduate in a few months. UQ FoM has a history of retaliating against students who speak up. I’ll go into more detail then, but I wanted to at least warn some of you before you make this mistake.

Before you select a medical school, ask who your biochemistry professor will be.

 

[RadsNola]

Do you have any actual data to back up your accusations? I can’t even find UQ’s 4 year grad rate.

 

[TUWEST_509]

37% of students?! That number seems way too high. Would you mind sharing where you got that percentage? UQ-O class size is capped at 120. So that would mean 44 students either drop out or don't match. And at most only 76 students would match each year. That's not consistent with their match list.

Also I don't understand how you say UQ curriculum is very easy but only 63% of students graduate in 4 years. What would be holding them back? Not passing step 1 ? UQ-O claims to have first time step 1 pass rate in the mid to high 90s.

 

[Wolvvs]

I guess a lot has changed in the fast few years.

I do think there have been changes to the curriculum to help things better line up with Step 1, but I don't know what those changes are. The exams this year and last year were much more difficult than in previous years; the average score on the midterm (~63) was within 10 points of the passing score (ostensibly 60, but likely will be reduced to ~55). This was not an easy exam, but I prepared using primarily Step 1 resources and scored over average. Anyone who put in the minimum effort would not have done well.

Some of this stuff is just completely wrong as of now. The curriculum is designed by our professors. There's a wide variety of staff of all ages and genders who teach us, and while some of the more clinical lectures aren't especially useful for exams or step 1, there's very little PhD minutia and nearly every lecture lines up well with one or more boards and beyond videos. During orientation for Ochsner students, they told us that we may have to put in more time than our Australian classmates because they don't have to take Step 1, but I never heard anything in any orientation about working for 4 hours and relaxing the rest of the day.

It's true that there doesn't seem to be a big emphasis on biochem so far. Hopefully everyone learned the krebs cycle since it's on the MCAT... But given p/f Step 1, going really deep into biochem is really not a great use of time. Also yes, no dissections, and that's true of all the Australian schools from what I can tell. The histology resource (BEST network) is good and much easier to use than a microscope.

I can't speak to the 4 year graduation rate. That doesn't sound right, like TUWEST_509 said it doesn't seem consistent with the match lists. Ochsner was a teaching hospital for Tulane before the UQ-Ochsner program was developed but I haven't reached phase 2 so can't speak to that experience.

Really just take whatever you read with a grain of salt. I've been very happy so far, I do have some complaints but they have nothing to do with the stuff on this list, I'm also only a first year student so keep that in mind.

 

[mcat_taker]

Stay away from the UQ-Ochsner program. There are better options available. The students who get into this program have competitive numbers, and would likely get into a US Md or DO school if they reapplied earlier in the cycle, and improved their essays. The 4 year graduation rate at UQ-Ochsner is only 63%. That‘s far below any US school and far below the 95% enjoyed by our Australian classmates

This for-profit progrqm is designed to maximise revenue, with 500 students in each class. It is more expensive than any US school, and provides very little in return. Even the Caribbean schools are a better choice because they follow a US-based curriculums. The UQ FoM (faculty of medicine) has a disorganised curriculum designed by administrators who do not teach classes, or see patients. Their philosophy is that “Medical school is not about passing exams, it is about forming relationships with your colleagues.” They do not follow any textbooks. Students do not dissect cadavers, or ever even touch a microscope. Those things would cost money and eat into their profits.

They do not teach biochemistry at the UQ FoM. There are also no real professors. Instead, students are taught and graded by whatever out-of-work MDs sign up to be “tutors.” The majority of them are women who started families shortly after graduating from med school, stayed home to support their children, but then later decided to come back and teach part-time. Others went to med school in different countries and yet unable to get licensed in Australia. Some will share their stories of how they experience physician burn-out. They are mostly very nice people, but these are not the experts we expected to have as our teachers in medical school.

The UQ curriculum is very easy. At orientation, they gave a presentation about student wellbeing. One of the slides told us to “Only study 4 hours a day, then relax the rest of the day.” ...so that is what the Australian students do. They have time to work side jobs. They have book clubs where they discuss fiction novels. Any student who shows up for around 4 hours a day, and pays a reasonable amount of attention will do fine on the UQ exams. However, Ochsner students have to cover exponentially more material in order to pass US board exams. Ochsner students have to learn the Kreb cycle on their own, but still find time to memorize jellyfish species names, and the most common cause of ______ in northern Australian. We often hear our very relaxed Australian counterparts say things like, “I feel so sorry for you guys.”

...and don’t you dare get caught trying to study during a small group discussion (5-10 hours per week), or when you’re supposed to be finger painting on your classmates faces (they call this “living anatomy” and attendance is mandatory). That might offend one of the tutors, who can easily check a box and fail any student for any reason they wish. They are not required to provide any examples or follow any criteria.

37% of students who enter this program are left both academically, and financially devastated.

Ochsner is a pretty great hospital and it seems to be well loved by most of their patients. However, Ochsner is a big place with some good departments, and some bad ones. Also, it is not set up for teaching the like a University hospital. We just get get thrown in to follow residents who are far too busy to do much teaching.

There are some success stories, but you are putting yourself at a disadvantage if you choose this program. I’ll write another essay after I graduate in a few months. UQ FoM has a history of retaliating against students who speak up. I’ll go into more detail then, but I wanted to at least warn some of you before you make this mistake.

Before you select a medical school, ask who your biochemistry professor will be.

Not sure where you got that number of 63% percent. Even students who repeated/took a block off were able to graduate on time. A vast majority of my class graduated on time and of those few that didn't they graduated the following semester or year. There are very few people who fail out completely due to the numerous student protections in place including supplemental exams, repeating the course, etc. I might be able to think of 1-2 who failed out completely if that. Although now that step 1 is mandatory to advance to phase 2 I'm not sure the exact numbers are or how they've changed. Granted the onus on passing the USMLE is on the student not the school.

As a practicing doctor- Biochem and cadavers are not important. Clinical medicine is not about memorizing biochem pathways or dissecting things. This is partially why step 1 is pass fail now. Yes there are some specific things that you need to learn regarding Australian practice but you did choose to go to an Australian University. Not sure why you seem to be so hung up on having a biochem professor. Personally I am very happy I didn't need to go to biochem class or spend more time than necessary on that nonsense.

Onerous requirements are in place in numerous medical schools. Living anatomy is not a bad thing. Being able to identify where specific anatomic markers are for physical exams is pretty important. You cant just rely on identifying things on scans.

Also Ochsner has dozens of GME residency programs and has been teaching medical students for decades, other students like Tulane and LSU before UQ students even came. It is a fantastic place to be a medical student and has a long history in academics. So no we don't just get "thrown in to follow residents around". Most of the rotations are very well run and thoughtfully implemented. The lectures are amazing. The teaching faculty very nice. Although it is important to remember that being in the hospital the primary goal is patient care. Residents are very busy. Sometimes they are too busy for you. This happens everywhere. You are not "owed anything" in the hospital as a medical student. As someone that has rotated both at Ochsner and in Australia I can tell you that Ochsner blows Australia away in terms of integrating medical students into teams and giving them a great learning environment and responsibility.

Thinking the Caribbean and studying on a third world island with poor rotation sites in poor inner city communities is better than UQO is laughable. You don't need a U.S. curriculum to be successful on step 1. No school will spoon-feed you this information. You need to actively learn the material yourself. Agreed that not all the CBL tutors are great. But everyone gets by. Just learn the cases well. Phase 1 is really not that important.

A focus on wellness is not a bad thing. And step 1 moving to pass fail also puts less pressure on phase 1 students.

I have never heard of anyone failing CBL. I think this is an exaggeration that they would fail you for some arbitrary reason like "studying" during the sessions. Paying attention in CBL for the 2x sessions a week is really not that big of an ask.

No I did not find the UQ curriculum "easy". Medical school anywhere requires a lot of study If you put the work in and are serious about it then you'll be fine. If medical school was easy everyone would do it. Yes most people do just fine on exams but they also put the work in.

UQ is a good place if you can work independently, use the step 1 resources (you actually have a framework to use unlike the Australians students), and stay organized. No it is not a perfect place but few medical schools are. There is much less frustration when you realize that your goal over the first 2 years is focusing on the curriculum for step 1.

edit: you can also end up at a DO school and have to learn a whole bunch of OMM nonsense that has no bearing on your future practice and take their own version of CS which for MD schools has been cancelled.

 

[Beastyd]

Hey guys, I'm a recent graduate of this program. More than happy to answer any questions/concerns you may have about this program- I'm an open book so feel free to ask!

 

[UQregret]

There’s a lot of misinformation being posted here. I get it. The school appears on our resume. It’s in our best interest to portray it in a positive light. I’ll find the actual document with the 63% graduation rate. They publish it every year, but it’s buried. Otherwise, I’d encourage anyone considering this program to look into the facts yourself. Some students above mentioned “professors.” They are confused. There are no classes taught by professors at the UQ FoM. Students will sometimes mistakenly refer to the course directors as professor, but they do not have the title of professor. They are just MDs taking a break, often after only a very short time practicing medicine. Ask a UQ FoM student to name their favourite professor, then look up that person.

I agree with the above posts when they describe independent studying. ...but the Mandatory attendance at zero yeild activities really gets in the way of independent studying. Also, if you have to learn everything on your own, then what exactly are students paying for? This school is more expensive than Harvard, but provides very little in return.

 

[medhopefullz]

There’s a lot of misinformation being posted here. I get it. The school appears on our resume. It’s in our best interest to portray it in a positive light. Ill find the actual document with the 63% graduation rate. They publish it every year, but it’s buried. Otherwise, I’d encourage anyone considering this program to look into the facts yourself. Some students above mentioned “professors.” They are confused. There are no classes taught by professors at the UQ FoM. Students will sometimes mistakenly refer to the course directors as professor, but they do not have the title of professor. They are just MDs taking a break, often after only a very short time practicing medicine. Ask w UQ FoM student to name their favourite professor, then look up that person.

Hi! It's easy to dismiss negative facts/opinions and thanks for sharing your experience! I'm wondering were you able to match at a residency in the States in your preferred specialty?

 

[ImgonnabeHokage]

There’s a lot of misinformation being posted here. I get it. The school appears on our resume. It’s in our best interest to portray it in a positive light. I’ll find the actual document with the 63% graduation rate. They publish it every year, but it’s buried. Otherwise, I’d encourage anyone considering this program to look into the facts yourself. Some students above mentioned “professors.” They are confused. There are no classes taught by professors at the UQ FoM. Students will sometimes mistakenly refer to the course directors as professor, but they do not have the title of professor. They are just MDs taking a break, often after only a very short time practicing medicine. Ask a UQ FoM student to name their favourite professor, then look up that person.

I agree with the above posts when they describe independent studying. ...but the Mandatory attendance at zero yeild activities really gets in the way of independent studying. Also, if you have to learn everything on your own, then what exactly are students paying for? This school is more expensive than Harvard, but provides very little in return.

there were 88 reported matches this year. If we just choose 120 students, because that's apparently where the class size is capped, that's still 73% of the whole class matching. Which isn't ideal, true, but also doesn't align with what you've posted. I definitely am not familiar with graduation vs matching stats so I could certainly be off base as well.

EDIT: 97% of 88 actually. So ~85 matches for 71% of the entire class

 

[TUWEST_509]

Hey guys, I'm a recent graduate of this program. More than happy to answer any questions/concerns you may have about this program- I'm an open book so feel free to ask!

Hey @Beastyd ! Thank you so much for taking the time to answer our questions! There seems to be a lot of conflicting details about the program on this thread. I was wondering if you knew how many UQ-O students started out with you in your cohort, and how many actually made it to the end. The 63% 4 year completion rate claimed by another student in this thread is very worrying. I'm assuming you are from the 2020 graduating class.? 97% match rate is very impressive but I also wanted to ask if you knew what resources the school offers to the 3% of students who didn't match?

Thank you again for offering to answer our questions.

 

[Beastyd]

Hey @Beastyd ! Thank you so much for taking the time to answer our questions! There seems to be a lot of conflicting details about the program on this thread. I was wondering if you knew how many UQ-O students started out with you in your cohort, and how many actually made it to the end. The 63% 4 year completion rate claimed by another student in this thread is very worrying. I'm assuming you are from the 2020 graduating class.? 97% match rate is very impressive but I also wanted to ask if you knew what resources the school offers to the 3% of students who didn't match?

Thank you again for offering to answer our questions.

Haha yeah, I was just part of the 2020 graduating class. It's definitely not a 63% 4 year graduation rate and I have no idea where that stat was pulled from, but speaking for my class (89/120 graduated in 4 years) and the 2 classes before mine- The 4 year grad rate has hovered around 75% for all 3 classes. I think the 5 year graduation rate is in the mid to low 90s though.
In my class, we had 3 students drop out during first year because they got into US MD schools and another 2 left because they got homesick (we also have 2 MD/PhD per year)
My class was also the first time Ochsner implemented the "Sit to progress" rule where you must sit Step 1 before progressing into phase 2 (you have until the end of February of your 3rd year to sit STEP)-> we had about 15 students decide to take a semester off, and postpone taking STEP 1, so this pushed them off cycle (all of them are currently on track to graduate in 5 years though).

As for the resources for students that don't match- I know the admin has created paid research positions within Ochsner itself where students that don't match get placed to do a project with a mentor for a year.

 

[Wolvvs]

There’s a lot of misinformation being posted here. I get it. The school appears on our resume. It’s in our best interest to portray it in a positive light. I’ll find the actual document with the 63% graduation rate. They publish it every year, but it’s buried. Otherwise, I’d encourage anyone considering this program to look into the facts yourself. Some students above mentioned “professors.” They are confused. There are no classes taught by professors at the UQ FoM. Students will sometimes mistakenly refer to the course directors as professor, but they do not have the title of professor. They are just MDs taking a break, often after only a very short time practicing medicine. Ask a UQ FoM student to name their favourite professor, then look up that person.

I agree with the above posts when they describe independent studying. ...but the Mandatory attendance at zero yeild activities really gets in the way of independent studying. Also, if you have to learn everything on your own, then what exactly are students paying for? This school is more expensive than Harvard, but provides very little in return.

Our course coordinator is Dr. Pieter Jansen (Dr Pieter Jansen - UQ Researchers), who is a practicing endocrinologist and has the title of Lecturer at UQ. So yeah, not a professor, but that's kind of a semantic difference. The module coordinator for the renal module, which we're in now, is Dr. Samuel Chan(Dr Samuel Chan - UQ Researchers) who works as a nephrologist and has the title of Senior Lecturer.

The coordinators don't teach all lectures of course. One of the lecturers who teaches the anatomy component of each course is Dr. Mark Midwinter (Professor Mark Midwinter - UQ Researchers) who's a general/trauma surgeon and is a full Professor. Plenty of other examples as well. I don't have time to look up everyone, but our lectures last week were given by Dr. Sherry Wu, A/Prof. Leo Nunnick, Dr. Samuel Chan, Dr. Martin Wolley, Dr. Ken-Soon Tan, and A/Prof. David Mudge if anyone wants to look them up.

There isn't much mandatory attendance so far. I've posted my schedule in the past, but it's around 8-12 hours per week of mandatory stuff which seems relatively low. And as to what you're paying for--an MD degree. There's lots of arguments to be made about how much value medical schools add over external resources when it comes to preclinical education, but that's not an argument that can be directed at UQ specifically. It's expensive, and as an international student you're paying extra in exchange for lower admissions standards.

 

[TUWEST_509]

Haha yeah, I was just part of the 2020 graduating class. It's definitely not a 63% 4 year graduation rate and I have no idea where that stat was pulled from, but speaking for my class (89/120 graduated in 4 years) and the 2 classes before mine- The 4 year grad rate has hovered around 75% for all 3 classes. I think the 5 year graduation rate is in the mid to low 90s though.
In my class, we had 3 students drop out during first year because they got into US MD schools and another 2 left because they got homesick (we also have 2 MD/PhD per year)
My class was also the first time Ochsner implemented the "Sit to progress" rule where you must sit Step 1 before progressing into phase 2 (you have until the end of February of your 3rd year to sit STEP)-> we had about 15 students decide to take a semester off, and postpone taking STEP 1, so this pushed them off cycle (all of them are currently on track to graduate in 5 years though).

As for the resources for students that don't match- I know the admin has created paid research positions within Ochsner itself where students that don't match get placed to do a project with a mentor for a year.

Thank you so much! This really cleared things up for me. Glad to know they have something in place for unmatched students.

 

[hathi10]

Hey everyone! Thanks to all the current and former UQ-O students posting their perspectives here. The question I'm having trouble wrapping my head around is if it truly is better to choose a US DO school over something like UQ-O. The main thing that seems to be an issue is matching into your specialty of choice. If you choose DO or UQ-O, it seems that matching into a competitive specialty could be challenging though not unheard of. Looking at the most recent match list, there are some impressive residency choices that students have gotten. I would say it's pretty comparable to the residency match lists of most DO schools I've come across and it has a higher ceiling (matching at Stanford, Brown, Yale, Duke, etc.). There's lots of matching with the affiliated clinical rotation program (Ochsner here) and a decent number of students that match into competitive specialties.

I keep hearing and reading everywhere that a DO program is the clear 2nd best option to a US MD school. But I'm not really seeing why something like UQ-O is that much worse. Perhaps things will change with Step 1 going P/F, which might make an IMG program even more disadvantageous. Even so, UQ-O says they had a 97% match rate in 2020. I think I read somewhere that around 40% got their first choice and ~90% got one of their top three choices (can't find where I saw this, so the 90% number is probably off). That stat is pretty comparable to what happens to residency matches overall. So what am I missing here? Is it just the high attrition rate and the higher cost that makes it a worse option?

 

[skiteflies123]

Hey everyone! Thanks to all the current and former UQ-O students posting their perspectives here. The question I'm having trouble wrapping my head around is if it truly is better to choose a US DO school over something like UQ-O. The main thing that seems to be an issue is matching into your specialty of choice. If you choose DO or UQ-O, it seems that matching into a competitive specialty could be challenging though not unheard of. Looking at the most recent match list, there are some impressive residency choices that students have gotten. I would say it's pretty comparable to the residency match lists of most DO schools I've come across and it has a higher ceiling (matching at Stanford, Brown, Yale, Duke, etc.). There's lots of matching with the affiliated clinical rotation program (Ochsner here) and a decent number of students that match into competitive specialties.

I keep hearing and reading everywhere that a DO program is the clear 2nd best option to a US MD school. But I'm not really seeing why something like UQ-O is that much worse. Perhaps things will change with Step 1 going P/F, which might make an IMG program even more disadvantageous. Even so, UQ-O says they had a 97% match rate in 2020. I think I read somewhere that around 40% got their first choice and ~90% got one of their top three choices (can't find where I saw this, so the 90% number is probably off). That stat is pretty comparable to what happens to residency matches overall. So what am I missing here? Is it just the high attrition rate and the higher cost that makes it a worse option?

To actually answer your question, as far as I can tell it's really mostly the idea that img won't get you far + the cost + being halfway across the world. I don't know if they call it attrition rate though because they claim that it's the same as the US and I believe the attrition rate is claimed to be based on students actually dropping out, but yeah the graduation rate. Someone correct me if I'm wrong.

Personally, I like to take the individual perspective of things both at a personal level and when assessing schools. The problem when people say DO is a clear second choice is that they lump all DO schools together and they lump all IMG schools together.For the most part most DO schools can be lumped together and most IMG schools can be lumped together, but there's always going to be programs that are outliers. Like for example at this point if you get into pcom or msucom, you're basically at an MD school imo. Yes they are DO schools but I think their matches are at a different level than most DO schools. I would say the same thing for certain IMG schools. I would say sackler, uq-o, and maybe even duke singapore (if you can get out of the singapore requirement) will give you a much better chance at matching in the US than a carribean school or even a UK school for that matter, not because of school rep (although that does matter) but because of the connections they will help you build within the schools. Yes most caribbean schools do their rotations in the US but from what I have heard many of the attendings which they rotate with don't actually care too much about them at least not compared to UQ O where the success of their students reflect directly on them as well. Sackler just has really good connections with NY which I can't say I fully understand.

The other side of this is the personal side, people are going to go to a school based off of what their goals are. I would agree that for the most part at this point DO school is a safer bet. If you don't want to take the risk go there (i say this as a first year at UQ O), but I will say that if you're willing to take a little bit of a risk, I think that UQ-O is a perfectly fine school and like you said the match rate is good, I highly doubt that the match rate will drop significantly even with step 1 becoming p/f. Of course this is all subject to opinion. Also, where do you want to live? Are you okay with being so far away from home? What do you want your experience to be like in med school? What's the financial cost of both of your options? Take all of these questions into consideration. I personally know now 2 ochsner students that are leaving UQ O, not because its bad though but because they got into USMD schools which to them the most important thing was getting a high match in good specialties and being closer to home.

Thank you for coming to my ted talk.

 

[Wolvvs]

Hey everyone! Thanks to all the current and former UQ-O students posting their perspectives here. The question I'm having trouble wrapping my head around is if it truly is better to choose a US DO school over something like UQ-O. The main thing that seems to be an issue is matching into your specialty of choice. If you choose DO or UQ-O, it seems that matching into a competitive specialty could be challenging though not unheard of. Looking at the most recent match list, there are some impressive residency choices that students have gotten. I would say it's pretty comparable to the residency match lists of most DO schools I've come across and it has a higher ceiling (matching at Stanford, Brown, Yale, Duke, etc.). There's lots of matching with the affiliated clinical rotation program (Ochsner here) and a decent number of students that match into competitive specialties.

I keep hearing and reading everywhere that a DO program is the clear 2nd best option to a US MD school. But I'm not really seeing why something like UQ-O is that much worse. Perhaps things will change with Step 1 going P/F, which might make an IMG program even more disadvantageous. Even so, UQ-O says they had a 97% match rate in 2020. I think I read somewhere that around 40% got their first choice and ~90% got one of their top three choices (can't find where I saw this, so the 90% number is probably off). That stat is pretty comparable to what happens to residency matches overall. So what am I missing here? Is it just the high attrition rate and the higher cost that makes it a worse option?

If you ask about this program in the main SDN premed forum, the answer I've seen is generally that there's not enough information to make a recommendation, and therefore will always recommend DO over any international school. I think there's a few reasons for that.

• UQ-Ochsner is relatively new, and hasn't graduated that many classes.
• There's not much information available. UQ and Ochsner don't seem interested in publicizing their program at all, so not many pre-med advisors and pre-med students are aware of it. Besides the UQ website and this specific thread, there's not really anywhere else at all to find information about UQ-Ochsner.
• UQ-Ochsner isn't for everyone, and probably isn't even for most people. Living in Australia for two years (on a normal year) is a huge commitment. The start is delayed for a typical US student looking to begin medical school after graduation, and going with UQ rather than a US school often means delaying residency by a year. The UQ application period doesn't line up with that of US schools, and in fact better lines up with the tail end of US application season when many applicants find they weren't able to get into a US school.
• Typically students who would qualify for UQ-Ochsner (504 MCAT minimum) are those who would be able to get into a DO school or potentially an MD school. Being an IMG is seen as riskier, so even if there's evidence that Ochsner students match at least as well as DO students, there's a lot of potential questions and uncertainty that make applying to UQ-Ochsner instead of US schools seem like a poor decision.

Regarding the match rate, 41% got their top choice and 70% were in the top 3. That's reasonably close to the average you pulled for US seniors, which was 48.4% and 74.4%. Source is this video, at 37:22



We can also kind of use that video to estimate 4 year graduation rate using the numbers at 34:00. Class of 2020 had 102 students according to the video, 88 students applied to the match. So 4 year graduation rate is 86.3% for that class (90.2% if you include the 3 students who decided to stay in Australia). For 2019 and 2018, looks like the rates are 76.9% and 80.9% respectively. This may not count students who graduated but chose to stay in Australia, and of course any dual degree students would not graduate in 4 years. For context, the US MD 4-year graduation rate is around 83-84% (https://www.aamc.org/system/files/r...tesandattritionratesofu.s.medicalstudents.pdf).

 

[mcat_taker]

Hey everyone! Thanks to all the current and former UQ-O students posting their perspectives here. The question I'm having trouble wrapping my head around is if it truly is better to choose a US DO school over something like UQ-O. The main thing that seems to be an issue is matching into your specialty of choice. If you choose DO or UQ-O, it seems that matching into a competitive specialty could be challenging though not unheard of. Looking at the most recent match list, there are some impressive residency choices that students have gotten. I would say it's pretty comparable to the residency match lists of most DO schools I've come across and it has a higher ceiling (matching at Stanford, Brown, Yale, Duke, etc.). There's lots of matching with the affiliated clinical rotation program (Ochsner here) and a decent number of students that match into competitive specialties.

I keep hearing and reading everywhere that a DO program is the clear 2nd best option to a US MD school. But I'm not really seeing why something like UQ-O is that much worse. Perhaps things will change with Step 1 going P/F, which might make an IMG program even more disadvantageous. Even so, UQ-O says they had a 97% match rate in 2020. I think I read somewhere that around 40% got their first choice and ~90% got one of their top three choices (can't find where I saw this, so the 90% number is probably off). That stat is pretty comparable to what happens to residency matches overall. So what am I missing here? Is it just the high attrition rate and the higher cost that makes it a worse option?

Look I respect everyone's opinions about the school. Some people may not have had as good of an experience as others based on expectations. I respect that.

I think it's important to remember that UQO first and foremost, in return for easier admissions standards, you are getting a chance at getting an MD from a very reputable institution with a beautiful campus and fully fledged university attached. You are literally sitting in class alongside Australia's best and brightest domestic students. Obviously in return these universities get a huge financial windfall from having American students. Australian universities are all heavily reliant on international students to function because they don't get much funding from the government and the domestic students essentially pay nothing. This is the basic idea to remember. That being said admissions standards for UQO have been increasing almost yearly. This program has now graduated 10 classes I believe. Yes people were still getting residencies when the standards were a 24 MCAT and 3.0 GPA when the program first started. Now the standards are much higher.

The other facts are compared to most IMG programs in the Caribbean and Europe- the attrition rate is pretty low. Comparable to US schools. I believe only around 5% of the class fail the clinical science final at any given time. Then those people are allowed remediation, etc. This is pretty important. That if you start you are likely to finish.

I remember our dean said on the first day of year 3 that if you pass all the UMSLEs, and on your first attempt, you will get a residency somewhere in something coming from this program. That everyone has. Baring any major personality issues. I believe him. That's the most important thing is not being left with nothing after graduation as you do get from other IMG programs. If you are a star here you will go somewhere good for residency I promise. The people who don't match are the people that probably graduated but didn't pass the UMSLE and are thus not eligible for the match. This is why the match rate is something like 97% this year. People who enter the match match. And Ochsner GME takes a lot of us too.

The biggest criticisms of this program tend to be with phase 1 and the disorganization of the curriculum, the random lectures, admin, the Australian stuff we need to do, the work for step 1 etc. We can agree to disagree but I found that living in Australia for 2 years vastly outweighed any negatives of UQ. Maybe attendance is more important now but I basically skipped everything I didn't want to do in phase 1 (like anatomy, histology, and path) and just learned the material at my own pace for exams. Phase 2 which is vastly more important for clinical development is basically the same as any other good U.S. med school. Solid core rotations in all the major fields of medicine at a major medical center in the U.S with good support, research, and faculty and great weekly lectures in NOLA and all in a super fun city to live in. Also studying for step 1 is literally first aid and uworld/other question banks. And you have plenty of free time for that. And its pass fail now. This will make it much easier coming from Australia. We had group study sessions, and upper levels who would tutor.

Anecdotally I think I can say that all my friends are really happy we got a chance to experience UQO, and it made us pretty interesting on the interview trail, etc and that the entire experience overall was a pretty sweet adventure with lots of fun and traveling and exploring new cities. But yes its probably for a specific personality type too. It takes a specific type of person to uproot yourself to a foreign country for 2 years and work around an Australian designed curriculum.

I would recommend the program just based on the overall experience (covid not withstanding). But I still respect anyone who disagrees.

 

[eppendorf1.5ml]

Hi all, thanks for all the info on this thread so far! Anyone know if there’s a Facebook page for accepted students for the incoming 2022 cohort? Would be nice to chat with more students about their decision.

 

[TUWEST_509]

Hi all, thanks for all the info on this thread so far! Anyone know if there’s a Facebook page for accepted students for the incoming 2022 cohort? Would be nice to chat with more students about their decision.

There is a Facebook page for accepted students. You should have received the link to it in your acceptance email. If you have not been accepted yet then I don't think you'd be allowed to join since it's private. The group is pretty inactive though. The last post was a month ago.

 

[eppendorf1.5ml]

There is a Facebook page for accepted students. You should have received the link to it in your acceptance email. If you have not been accepted yet then I don't think you'd be allowed to join since it's private. The group is pretty inactive though. The last post was a month ago.

Wow I totally glanced over that part of the email. Thanks!

 

[RadsNola]

Good luck to everyone interviewing tomorrow! I hope it goes well!

 

[blue_penguin]

Hi everyone, first of all thank you current and former UQ-O students who are sharing their experience on here, it's been an excellent resource. This might be getting into the weeds a bit, but I was wondering if anyone can speak to what core focus this school has, if any. For example some USMD schools tend to be more community oriented, others more research oriented, or even global health oriented. Does UQ-O have any particular focus or is it more of an "it's what you make of it" kind of school? In addition are there any particular programs inside of the school for things like this, I'm having a hard time finding a lot of info to be honest.

Thanks in advance!

 

[medhopefullz]

To follow up on that, does anyone know how grading is done at UQO? Is it difficult/bordering on impossible to get pass+distinction or pass+high distinction?

 

[Wolvvs]

Hi everyone, first of all thank you current and former UQ-O students who are sharing their experience on here, it's been an excellent resource. This might be getting into the weeds a bit, but I was wondering if anyone can speak to what core focus this school has, if any. For example some USMD schools tend to be more community oriented, others more research oriented, or even global health oriented. Does UQ-O have any particular focus or is it more of an "it's what you make of it" kind of school? In addition are there any particular programs inside of the school for things like this, I'm having a hard time finding a lot of info to be honest.

Thanks in advance!

Australia doesn't have a lot of medical schools and they don't really have as much of an identity or focus as schools do in the US. Some Australian schools do focus on rural health or indigenous health, and UQ has pathways for that, but as a whole it's probably more research focused.

I haven't been through phase 2 so I can't speak to the Ochsner piece of things, but my sense is they're focused on their local community in Louisiana, although they do a decent amount of research as well.

In the end, it really is what you make of it and how you want to spin things on your residency application XD If you want to focus on research, there's the UQ powerhouse and plenty of clinical stuff at Ochsner. If you want to show commitment to community, I think Ochsner's got you covered there too. And by going to school across 2 continents, you will have plenty to say about global health. I definitely get the intent of this question, but given the program is so young and also is shared across two very different institutions, I'm not sure there is a great answer.

To follow up on that, does anyone know how grading is done at UQO? Is it difficult/bordering on impossible to get pass+distinction or pass+high distinction?

HSR is a bit subjective since there are no exams. In order to get a score of high distinction, in my personal opinion you need to put in an amount of work that would be unreasonable given the demands of clinical science. But I also think that's the intention of having a high distinction grade only achieved by a handful of students each year. Also FYI our last assessment hasn't been graded yet and it's worth 40% of our grade, so still not completely sure yet.

For CS, based on the midterm high distinction is something like top 1% and distinction is top 10-15%. Again we haven't taken the final yet so these percentages could change.

Was there something you were especially concerned about? I don't think getting high grades is really going to make a difference. Class rank is reported by quartile within the Ochsner class on the MSPE letter, but honestly that's unlikely to matter much compared to Year 3 and 4 grades. Year 1 and 2 grades are reported too, but those are not usually weighed heavily if at all by residency PDs.

 

[medhopefullz]

Thank you @Wolvvs! I was under the impression that to match in competitive specialties it would help achieving some high grades in clinical-years. But in many med-schools at USA, its mostly pass-fail pre-clinical years, and clinical years it is high pass, pass, fail or some variation on that. So ya, preclinical might not matter as much, but definitely clinical years would. I'm unsure if the grading system used for phase 1 is the same for phase 2?

I've done a lot of research and would love to continue that at UQ. Given the workload at medical school, I'm unsure how to balance research into the schedule or whom to approach -counselors at UQO to work with.

 

[Wolvvs]

Thank you @Wolvvs! I was under the impression that to match in competitive specialties it would help achieving some high grades in clinical-years. But in many med-schools at USA, its mostly pass-fail pre-clinical years, and clinical years it is high pass, pass, fail or some variation on that. So ya, preclinical might not matter as much, but definitely clinical years would. I'm unsure if the grading system used for phase 1 is the same for phase 2?

I've done a lot of research and would love to continue that at UQ. Given the workload at medical school, I'm unsure how to balance research into the schedule or whom to approach -counselors at UQO to work with.

Ohh gotcha, I'm sorry I misunderstood your question! For year 3 and 4, I'm not exactly sure what grades they use. I assumed they use H/HP/P/F but I'm not sure now that you mention it. I do know they put your grade into context for the purpose of residency application by providing a chart showing how well you did compared to the rest of the class.

For more information about research, you can find the UQ research portal here: Student research portal - Medicine Program - University of Queensland

There's an Ochsner specific page as well, but Ochsner students can participate in UQ research too. UQ has a faculty member specifically dedicated to working with students to locate research projects. They do want to make sure medical school itself is going well enough for you first, so you must have a 4.5 GPA minimum before beginning (meaning you can start in Semester 2).

 

[TUWEST_509]

Have any of the accepted students started the process of applying for their australian student visa yet? Received my CoE a while ago but I'm not sure if I should start the process now since the country is still locked down.

 

[Wolvvs]

I think you should apply for the visa now, better to just get that out of the way. The only reason to delay applying for a visa is if you're still considering another Australian school, because applying for a visa locks you into that school, but I don't think many people here are in that situation!

 

[Achnologiast]

Would you still need a visa if the borders decide to remain closed and the Jan 2022 class will also be online ?

 

[Wolvvs]

Probably yes. In order to qualify to study online, my class needed provide evidence of a rejected international travel exemption request, and to submit a request you need a visa.

Also, while things are still very much up in the air, if opportunities to travel to Australia arise later this year, there's a chance they'll be time-sensitive, so getting a visa now means you'll be more able to move quickly if needed.

 

[minnie_mouse98]

Does anyone know how to pay the deposit? I thought there would be an email after I accepted the offer but I never received one.

 

[TUWEST_509]

Does anyone know how to pay the deposit? I thought there would be an email after I accepted the offer but I never received one.

You can pay it from your application portal. There should be a tab with the payment details.

 

[medhopefullz]

Does anyone know how long it takes to know if you passed the interview?

 

[TUWEST_509]

Does anyone know how long it takes to know if you passed the interview?

It took about 3 weeks.

 

[mcat_taker]

Thank you @Wolvvs! I was under the impression that to match in competitive specialties it would help achieving some high grades in clinical-years. But in many med-schools at USA, its mostly pass-fail pre-clinical years, and clinical years it is high pass, pass, fail or some variation on that. So ya, preclinical might not matter as much, but definitely clinical years would. I'm unsure if the grading system used for phase 1 is the same for phase 2?

I've done a lot of research and would love to continue that at UQ. Given the workload at medical school, I'm unsure how to balance research into the schedule or whom to approach -counselors at UQO to work with.

As usual whatever @Wolvvs is saying is spot on. I would echo that UQO doesn't really have a core focus. I think that overall the mission of the school is to get more doctors into the gulf south and into Louisiana which is a state with poor health outcomes and can use more doctors.

That being said by nature of studying in Australia and in New Orleans it is as "global health oriented" as you can probably get. Pre pandemic we had to do an elective after our first year in Australia for 8 weeks and then return to Australia as 4th years to do at least 1 rotation there. Some people stayed for more. There is also an opportunity to do an international rotation in either India or Haiti in 4th year (we have long standing partnerships in those places) (all prepandemic). I think we are trying to expand our footprint to offer something like that in South America as well in the future.

That being said if you are super into research, UQ and Ochsner has plenty of opportunities for you and we have plenty of kids in our program with prodigious research output and lots of papers but it's by no means required. We also have lots of students into community service/involvement too. And plenty of students that just focus on their academics and don't do extra stuff. There's really something for everyone.

The grading system is the same in phase 2. I don't think anyone really knows how much grades matter. Maybe they do maybe they don't. I'm not sure residencies know how to read our grading scale which is Australian based 1-7 with 4 being a pass. Do they look at what quartile you are ? I have no idea. Lots of med schools are pass fail now so I'm not sure how much grades at UQO factor into residency stuff. You do get a notation on your dean's letter if you honor any of your shelf exams in 3rd year I think.

Grades never came up in any of my residency interviews. I think if you're applying for competitive specialities your grades are probably good enough and you've never thought about them being a limiting factor. And if you are actually worried about your grades your probably not applying for vascular surgery or ortho to begin with lol so you're also probably fine.

 

[blue_penguin]

Thanks for the replies everyone. Definitely interested in the global health aspect of this program so it's nice to see that on top of being in Australia there are opportunities to go to Haiti or India (at least pre-pandemic). As far as admissions are concerned, I just recently applied and feel very late in the game as I was not aware of this program and applications opened up back in November of last year. Anyone have experience applying this late or even later?

 

[Wolvvs]

I applied at this time last year. I was initially waitlisted along with the rest of my interview cohort but ultimately did get accepted. I was delayed because one of my transcripts could only be sent by mail and there were some issues with it, so make sure you get your transcripts in ASAP and follow up if you don't hear anything.

I think because the border is closed and there's a lot of uncertainty fewer people are likely to be applying, so things might be easier this year but I have no way of knowing for sure.

 

[blue_penguin]

Just wanted to update if anyone is in the same spot as me. I got an interview invite shortly after I asked my question above.

 

[Wolvvs]

Just wanted to update if anyone is in the same spot as me. I got an interview invite shortly after I asked my question above.

Awesome! Is the interview slot this month or next month?

 

[blue_penguin]

Awesome! Is the interview slot this month or next month?

This month, it only gave me one day as an option.

 

[abpos]

ACCEPTED!

 

[BLTCOOL]

Got the acceptance email. Thanks everyone here for all the tips with the programs. I have been a long time lurker

 

[medhopefullz]

Got Accepted!! <3 looking forward to meeting you guys!

 

[RadsNola]

Also just in case anyone is setting up their own health coverage, they want it from 1/10/2022 until 4/9/2026 according to the invoice!

 

[medhopefullz]

Hi everyone!

I was reading throw the program information and saw "undertake one placement block in Australia in Year 4." Does anyone understand what this is? I thought after phase 1 we'd be in the States for phase 2, but expected to go back?

 

[RadsNola]

Hi everyone!

I was reading throw the program information and saw "undertake one placement block in Australia in Year 4." Does anyone understand what this is? I thought after phase 1 we'd be in the States for phase 2, but expected to go back?

There’s one away rotation in Australia. I think it’s either six or eight weeks

 

[Wolvvs]

This year 88 Ochsner students mathched into residencies. Go look this up for yourself. That class started out with 120 students. Go look that up too. Thats already down to 73%. Some of those students repeated a year.
this attrition rate is far below any US school. It’s below the Caribbean attrition rate. Ignore the cheerleaders above posting misinformation. Look into it yourself. Stay very far away from this scam.

No, it didn't. This class started with 102 students.

 

[UQregret]

Ignore the cheerleaders on this forum who think that a lecturer and professor are the same thing, and who think that finger painting is more important than biochemistry. Look up the data and the policies for yourself (start with the attendance policy). Know that there are better options for you. Re-apply next cycle, do a masters degree, go to a Caribbean school where there are smaller class sizes, real professors, and a US-based curriculum. Don’t make the same mistake so many of us did.

The numbers are even worse than I thought. According to the annual report, 131 students commenced year one of the UQ/Ochsner program in 2017. Only 88 made it to residency match In 2021.

https://medicine.uq.edu.au/files/49910/MD-Program-Annual-Report-2019.pdf

Note that the above numbers do not account for students who had to repeat a semester (and wait a year for that semester to come around again) and that is a lot. At least 20 are currently waiting to repeat year 2 courses.

The US and current Australian education systems are vastly different, to the point of being incompatible. So far, I’ve been one of the lucky ones (and really, it is just luck). The grading policies in this program are vague, subjective, and arbitrary. Additionally, Australia is such a small country in terms of population, and this is a relatively unknown program. So there is no supervision or accountability. The FoM employees can do whatever they want. If something goes wrong for you, like it does for so many UQ/Ochsner students, there will be no one for you to tell. Your life will become an episode of Locked up Abroad. You will be left academically, and financially, crippled. After I graduate later this year, I’ll write more about why the graduation rate is so low. I will site specific documents, examples, and names.

I like that someone abrove mentioned one of the lecturers, Dr. Samuel Chen. Dr. Chen is not a professor, he’s just a doctor in his 30s, but he’s pretty good. He recently said that the changes at the UQ FoM “make me sad for the future.“

 

[UQregret]

No, it didn't. This class started with 102 students.

You are posting misinformation. See the data in the document I linked aboce. The class started with 131 students. Why did you think there were only 102?