USACS and their dirty money

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alpinism

Give Em' the Jet Fuel
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Cliff notes: USACS took out a loan from the private equity firm Apollo Global Management for over 400 million dollars which according to its majority owner is financed by tax avoidance strategies developed by Jeffery Epstein who they subsequently paid over 100 million dollars to pay for sex parties with underage girls.

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Fwiw. They borrowed more. Now it’s like 700m+.
 
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This is the one CMG I want to see fail more than any other.
 
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This is the one CMG I want to see fail more than any other.
Likewise. Unfortunately, I don't see it happening--they seem pretty good at what they do. Also, them 'failing' in the traditional sense seems impossible, would just result in their docs having to take paycuts and accept even ****tier work conditions. Only way they actually lose is if clinicians en mass refuse to work for them any longer.
 
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Likewise. Unfortunately, I don't see it happening--they seem pretty good at what they do. Also, them 'failing' in the traditional sense seems impossible, would just result in their docs having to take paycuts and accept even ****tier work conditions. Only way they actually lose is if clinicians en mass refuse to work for them any longer.
They lost a bunch of hospitals in Charlotte. Huge blow to USACS, another group came in and now USACS has to pay more per hour again at other nearby sites due to the local market competition
 
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Could someone w/ more knowledge clarify this for me, I"m wondering if I've got the gist of this right.

On top of all the typical CMG BS rent seeking, USACS administrators (docs and mba types) are engaged in a multiyear scheme to steal money from their clinicians, via the share scam and resultant tax hi-jinks, in order to collect a management fee in the eventual defacto sale to PE (via defauting on their loans as above). They've been able to rapidly expand by giving the leadership of regional pseudo-democratic groups sweetheart deals in exchange for selling their docs and future colleagues down the river.
 
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Its so Laughable to me how educated docs can truly believe that they are owners of the company. Just do a 10 min google research and you will see that ownership amounts to about the same as owning a piece of the Packers.
 
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Its so Laughable to me how educated docs can truly believe that they are owners of the company. Just do a 10 min google research and you will see that ownership amounts to about the same as owning a piece of the Packers.
It is shocking how dumb these educated people are. It’s even sadder that some come to the defense of this. Some well in the know people are telling me a few CMGs have 12-18 months left before some seismic changes the nsa is crushing them.
 
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No surprises act. The insurers are coming after the cmgs super hard. Bcbs of TN out something out that they expect $65m in savings from em anesthesia and rads just in Tennessee.

Called out the cmgs. That’s a lot of dough.
 
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The much more common explanation of that abbreviation is "National Security Agency", and I thought that the "seismic changes" would actually be something.

I think an earthquake that swallows USACS, TeamHealth, Vituity, and a few others would be something.
How about typhoon changes. A gigantic water spout just removes USACS from existence.
We need a move called "Shark-a-chomp-CMG" where gigantic sharks fly out of the ocean...land on admin of CMGs and eat them. Then the shark shiits money and pit ER docs get richer.

I would buy a six-pack of Coors Light, pop some oily-popcorn, and enjoy that movie on a Friday night.
 
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I think an earthquake that swallows USACS, TeamHealth, Vituity, and a few others would be something.
How about typhoon changes. A gigantic water spout just removes USACS from existence.
We need a move called "Shark-a-chomp-CMG" where gigantic sharks fly out of the ocean...land on admin of CMGs and eat them. Then the shark shiits money and pit ER docs get richer.

I would buy a six-pack of Coors Light, pop some oily-popcorn, and enjoy that movie on a Friday night.
I was always under the impression Vituity was better and in a separate league from USACS/TH?
 
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That's like saying you would rather have chlamydia than secondary syphilis. Or you would rather have a 23 gauge over a 14 gauge needle stuck in your eye. Or you would rather lose 26% on your portfolio than 34%. Or you would rather have your girlfriend deny you sex for 4 weeks and not 6 weeks. You get my point.
 
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Why is vituity so bad? Seemingly physician owned, partner status etc. way better than the PE owned groups.
 
They lost a bunch of hospitals in Charlotte. Huge blow to USACS, another group came in and now USACS has to pay more per hour again at other nearby sites due to the local market competition
Curious who took over those charlotte contracts.
 
I've been looking to relocate to CA (long story, wife's family) and I have yet to meet a Vituity doc that wasn't happy with the gig. Seems like they are the least evil of the big CMGs due to the physician ownership and K1/1099 aspect of it.
 
Why is vituity so bad? Seemingly physician owned, partner status etc. way better than the PE owned groups.

I've been looking to relocate to CA (long story, wife's family) and I have yet to meet a Vituity doc that wasn't happy with the gig. Seems like they are the least evil of the big CMGs due to the physician ownership and K1/1099 aspect of it.

I'm a PGY-5 now, with Vituity for ~2 years, very happy with my job, medical director, local support, national support. Even without the full partner bonus, the pay is good, you get more each year, and full partner pay is very good. In my opinion it is the best solution to the large, PE backed, corporate groups. If I want to move locations they have hundreds of ER contracts (mostly west coast, but many other states as well) and my medical director made it clear that if I want to move they would happily support me. Met a medical director from another site near family and said I can get a job there basically whenever, just give some lead time.
 
When this current bubble finally bursts (which should be soon), I’m very interested in seeing which PE funded CMGs are currently over leveraged. Based on the way big money usually operates, the answer will probably be: all of them.
 
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2026 when Apollo calls it’s debt to USACS

Should be interesting to see what their “shares” end up being worth when all said and done
 
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When this current bubble finally bursts (which should be soon), I’m very interested in seeing which PE funded CMGs are currently over leveraged. Based on the way big money usually operates, the answer will probably be: all of them.

... 🎶 and the meeeek shaal in-her-it the earth 🎶
 
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2026 when Apollo calls it’s debt to USACS

Should be interesting to see what their “shares” end up being worth when all said and done
Just for clarification USACS debt is from Apollo Global Management. Apollo Global Management has no business relationship with ApolloMD.
 
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Yeah vituity is in no way a CMG. All the profits go back to the physicians. Complete open book finances. No outside investors.
So open book, I even saw the money our site used to buy a new laptop for our practice administrator when it broke. I see what the director's stipend is. I see everyone's RVU's and bonuses.
Not a CMG.
 
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... 🎶 and the meeeek shaal in-her-it the earth 🎶
*GUITARS8
*DRUMS*
We've taken care of everything
The words you read, the songs you sing
The pictures that give pleasure to your eye
It's one for all, and all for one

Great now I’m listening to 2112 to open my night shift. That will totally work out great.
 
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Yeah vituity is in no way a CMG. All the profits go back to the physicians. Complete open book finances. No outside investors.
So open book, I even saw the money our site used to buy a new laptop for our practice administrator when it broke. I see what the director's stipend is. I see everyone's RVU's and bonuses.
Not a CMG.
Just sounds like a decent CMG and not as evil as the others. Nothing I’ve heard though makes it seem like a SDG. Do you have equal, shared decision making with how the group is run? Do you have ability to change anything you want with how your group functions at the local level? I’d say both are criteria for a SDG.
 
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Just sounds like a decent CMG and not as evil as the others. Nothing I’ve heard though makes it seem like a SDG. Do you have equal, shared decision making with how the group is run? Do you have ability to change anything you want with how your group functions at the local level? I’d say both are criteria for a SDG.
Lots of local control. Have equal say in thing at the single shop level.
As you advance in partnership your vote counts more at the national level.
The only people who vote, are the docs on the ground.
 
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Lots of local control. Have equal say in thing at the single shop level.
As you advance in partnership your vote counts more at the national level.
The only people who vote, are the docs on the ground.
Say the group doesn’t like the medical director, you guys just vote him out? Like really quick, 5 mins at the next monthly meeting, right?
 
Apollo and a new local group called Wake Med
Not exactly a new group. I’d heard this shake-up was in the works for a while, but was not aware that it was official.

What you describe is the community practice of Atrium Wake Forest Baptist Health (formally known as Wake Forest Baptist Health). This is very different from the Wake Med Health System in Raleigh, NC. I know, all of the “Wakes” in NC can get confusing.

Wake Forest Baptist Health was the $3B health system headquartered out of Winston Salem and was the system affiliated with Wake Forest Health Sciences and Wake Forest School of Medicine. They had an academic/faculty practice that ran the residency out of Wake Forest Baptist Medical Center, and a community practice that staffed community and free standing EDs affiliated with the health system as well as a couple of non-affiliated contracts such as Cone Health in Greensboro. The structure of these contracts were very similar to a small contract management group with sites having local leadership but major admin decisions flowing through the academic Chair at Baptist Medical Center in Winston Salem. Unlike a CMG, physicians in the community practice were employed by the health system which relied heavily on its own residency graduates for labor.

Well, Wake Forest Baptist Health entered a “strategic partnership“ (aka was acquired by) Atrium Health System which is the $10B system with a clinical headquarters at Carolinas Medical Center in Charlotte. Although Carolinas Medical Center is a faculty academic practice similar to Baptist in Winston Salem, Atrium had several community hospitals around Charlotte that were staffed by USACS and ApolloMD. It was pretty much understood that the USACS contracts were in immediate jeopardy as soon as Atrium Health System acquired Wake Forest Baptist Health since the Baptist leadership was telling the Atrium leadership how great it was to have hospital-employed emergency physicians whose fees they could harvest. After all, why allow a 3rd party CMG to collect those fees when you have $13B mega health system that can apply economies of scale to the operating expenses for a physician practice spanning 20+ hospitals? Moreover, Atrium emerged from the acquisition having 2 established EM residencies across NC (Carolinas Med Center in Charlotte and WF Baptist in Winston Salem) and a future new Charlotte medical school campus of Wake Forest School of Medicine to supply the labor.

I’m not going to say that this is a good or bad thing for physicians. I will say that this is more evidence that CMGs are being replaced by large health systems; many of them non-profits. It is also worth mentioning that Atrium Health is currently looking to merge with WI/IL-based Aurora-Advocate Health to make one of the largest health systems (roughly $24B I think) in the country spanning the South and Midwest. I will also note that this concept of physician ownership of practices and exclusion of private equity is all fine and dandy, but starting a practice takes capital - capital that banks are often no longer willing to lend. I can see CMGs/private equity supplying that capital; I can see large health systems supplying it. Unfortunately, I don’t invison many physicians willing to supply it making physician ownership unlikely.
 
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Not exactly a new group. I’d heard this shake-up was in the works for a while, but was not aware that it was official.

What you describe is the community practice of Atrium Wake Forest Baptist Health (formally known as Wake Forest Baptist Health). This is very different from the Wake Med Health System in Raleigh, NC. I know, all of the “Wakes” in NC can get confusing.

Wake Forest Baptist Health was the $3B health system headquartered out of Winston Salem and was the system affiliated with Wake Forest Health Sciences and Wake Forest School of Medicine. They had an academic/faculty practice that ran the residency out of Wake Forest Baptist Medical Center, and a community practice that staffed community and free standing EDs affiliated with the health system as well as a couple of non-affiliated contracts such as Cone Health in Greensboro. The structure of these contracts were very similar to a small contract management group with sites having local leadership but major admin decisions flowing through the academic Chair at Baptist Medical Center in Winston Salem. Unlike a CMG, physicians in the community practice were employed by the health system which relied heavily on its own residency graduates for labor.

Well, Wake Forest Baptist Health entered a “strategic partnership“ (aka was acquired by) Atrium Health System which is the $10B system with a clinical headquarters at Carolinas Medical Center in Charlotte. Although Carolinas Medical Center is a faculty academic practice similar to Baptist in Winston Salem, Atrium had several community hospitals around Charlotte that were staffed by USACS and ApolloMD. It was pretty much understood that the USACS contracts were in immediate jeopardy as soon as Atrium Health System acquired Wake Forest Baptist Health since the Baptist leadership was telling the Atrium leadership how great it was to have hospital-employed emergency physicians whose fees they could harvest. After all, why allow a 3rd party CMG to collect those fees when you have $13B mega health system that can apply economies of scale to the operating expenses for a physician practice spanning 20+ hospitals? Moreover, Atrium emerged from the acquisition having 2 established EM residencies across NC (Carolinas Med Center in Charlotte and WF Baptist in Winston Salem) and a future new Charlotte medical school campus of Wake Forest School of Medicine to supply the labor.

I’m not going to say that this is a good or bad thing for physicians. I will say that this is more evidence that CMGs are being replaced by large health systems; many of them non-profits. It is also worth mentioning that Atrium Health is currently looking to merge with WI/IL-based Aurora-Advocate Health to make one of the largest health systems (roughly $24B I think) in the country spanning the South and Midwest. I will also note that this concept of physician ownership of practices and exclusion of private equity is all fine and dandy, but starting a practice takes capital - capital that banks are often no longer willing to lend. I can see CMGs/private equity supplying that capital; I can see large health systems supplying it. Unfortunately, I don’t invison many physicians willing to supply it making physician ownership unlikely.
Whats interesting is Atrium Health owns a small nugget of USACS. Not enough for them to care I guess.

Very minimal capital is required to run an EM practice and I have spoken to multiple RCM companies who would be happy to supply this loan in exchange for the business from the group.

Clearly it is smarter for these companies to own the EM docs than have a cmg do the same. What i have found is that the hospitals generally are terrible at getting good rates for ED Pro fees.
 
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Whats interesting is Atrium Health owns a small nugget of USACS. Not enough for them to care I guess.

Very minimal capital is required to run an EM practice and I have spoken to multiple RCM companies who would be happy to supply this loan in exchange for the business from the group.

Clearly it is smarter for these companies to own the EM docs than have a cmg do the same. What i have found is that the hospitals generally are terrible at getting good rates for ED Pro fees.

Probably willing to eat it if the ED patients feed higher end services.
 
Whats interesting is Atrium Health owns a small nugget of USACS. Not enough for them to care I guess.

Very minimal capital is required to run an EM practice and I have spoken to multiple RCM companies who would be happy to supply this loan in exchange for the business from the group.

Clearly it is smarter for these companies to own the EM docs than have a cmg do the same. What i have found is that the hospitals generally are terrible at getting good rates for ED Pro fees.
Real question is: what is that ownership worth?

Right now it’s not worth much of anything with the amount of debt USACS is in.

Then the other question is: was it preferred stock or common stock?

Likely, the small ownership Atrium was given as part of USACS’s negotiation for the contract is not worth much…
 
Real question is: what is that ownership worth?

Right now it’s not worth much of anything with the amount of debt USACS is in.

Then the other question is: was it preferred stock or common stock?

Likely, the small ownership Atrium was given as part of USACS’s negotiation for the contract is not worth much…
Yeah. I think they own 2-5% of USACS. Small amount. I assume they got preferred ownership. It’s a bad look when you wont use a product you own.
 
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