Use for Gen Surg. in the military?

[Xypathos]

I have an interest in general surgery mostly and want to enter under a HPSP scholarship. In fact, I was even "ballsy" (as my recruiter called me) that after I graduated HS in 2004 I went to MEPS and while sitting down with the Army branch, I said "I only want to see what the Army is like, so I don't want some 5 year contract. In fact, I want a 1 year contract as a 31B or nothing at all." He was rather strucken back and pushed me to reconsider the 5 year enlistment option and I held strong so he made some calls and the next day they had the paperwork for me to sign.

Two weeks later I was sent off to Ft. Leonardwood with the 795th Battalion, Delta company. I graduated top of my class in medals and PT, then I was sent off to Fort Bragg and discharged in 2005, no tour of duty however and no letter stating I would be recalled (so far).

I just finished my freshman year at Cornell College and will be transfering back to NC to attend UNCC, NCSU, or ECU as my father has been diagnosed with Parkinson's and I wish to be with him during this.

Anyway, my main area of interest right now in medicine is general surgery --- how helpful would this be in either the Army, Navy, or AF? I love the idea of flying a plane for sure and being a flight surgeon, but I also love the idea of being in the Army tucked away at some makeshift hospital performing a surery while under enemy fire, or even attached to a SO/GB unit and serving elite soldiers. Serving overseas would be most ideal --- Germany, Italy, or somewhere in Asia.

Would general surgery be practical for this or would they stick me in some hospital in the States? Honestly, if they did that I think I would go insane, I am a naturally born adrenaline junkie.

If it's of any consideration, I intend on pursuing my private flight license once back in NC and finishing my Undergrad degree.

I loved the year I spent in the Army but I also knew I needed a solid education and to enjoy the life of a college student, so I decided to discharge rather than resign, but I do want to return after med school.

Hopeing for any advice on my dreams and how they can best be achieved.

btw, after my HPSP term is up, I want to go into private practice more than likely either through a partneship or on my own though if I do a general surgery residency, I will more than likely complete a fellowship in PS after my commitment.

Also, should I be looking at other residencies that will permit me to live my adrenaline lifestyle to the fullest in the military and once back in civilian life that will also permit me to work in a private practice to my own tune and make as much money as I see fit to make? If so, what residencies would these be? I assume FP and EM maybe?

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[colbgw02]

I have an interest in general surgery mostly and want to enter under a HPSP scholarship. In fact, I was even "ballsy" (as my recruiter called me) that after I graduated HS in 2004 I went to MEPS and while sitting down with the Army branch, I said "I only want to see what the Army is like, so I don't want some 5 year contract. In fact, I want a 1 year contract as a 31B or nothing at all." He was rather strucken back and pushed me to reconsider the 5 year enlistment option and I held strong so he made some calls and the next day they had the paperwork for me to sign.

Two weeks later I was sent off to Ft. Leonardwood with the 795th Battalion, Delta company. I graduated top of my class in medals and PT, then I was sent off to Fort Bragg and discharged in 2005, no tour of duty however and no letter stating I would be recalled (so far).

I just finished my freshman year at Cornell College and will be transfering back to NC to attend UNCC, NCSU, or ECU as my father has been diagnosed with Parkinson's and I wish to be with him during this.

Anyway, my main area of interest right now in medicine is general surgery --- how helpful would this be in either the Army, Navy, or AF? I love the idea of flying a plane for sure and being a flight surgeon, but I also love the idea of being in the Army tucked away at some makeshift hospital performing a surery while under enemy fire, or even attached to a SO/GB unit and serving elite soldiers. Serving overseas would be most ideal --- Germany, Italy, or somewhere in Asia.

Would general surgery be practical for this or would they stick me in some hospital in the States? Honestly, if they did that I think I would go insane, I am a naturally born adrenaline junkie.

If it's of any consideration, I intend on pursuing my private flight license once back in NC and finishing my Undergrad degree.

I loved the year I spent in the Army but I also knew I needed a solid education and to enjoy the life of a college student, so I decided to discharge rather than resign, but I do want to return after med school.

Hopeing for any advice on my dreams and how they can best be achieved.

btw, after my HPSP term is up, I want to go into private practice more than likely either through a partneship or on my own though if I do a general surgery residency, I will more than likely complete a fellowship in PS after my commitment.

Also, should I be looking at other residencies that will permit me to live my adrenaline lifestyle to the fullest in the military and once back in civilian life that will also permit me to work in a private practice to my own tune and make as much money as I see fit to make? If so, what residencies would these be? I assume FP and EM maybe?

i'll leave much to other folks who are more capable of dispelling some of your perceptions of both medicine in general and army general surgery in particular. suffice it to say, that doing a general surgery residency in the army and subsequently being an army surgeon don't really involve much of what you're looking for. especially during your residency, i hope you can find an in-hospital outlet for your adrenaline rush, as you won't be spending much time anywhere else.

the closest thing you can probably get is being a flight surgeon or just a gmo assigned to a line unit. or, if you're at fort bragg, for instance, you could still jump every once in awhile. realize though, the army isn't going to put (or at least shouldn't put) a board certified general surgeon with 6 years of residency training (now 6 because of research year) in too much of harm's way. you're far too much of a valuable commodity, and that doesn't go for just surgeons, but really all MDs. even gmos tend to stay back from the front as compared to regular old grunts.

bottom line is i think you're trying to have your cake and eat it too. if you want to jump out of airplanes and low crawl under live fire, then being an MD isn't going to give you that. i'm not saying it's impossible to have an exciting life, but you'd probably be well served to realign your goals to something more realistic.

 

[bliss72]

General Surgery is one of the Army's Critical specialties. We cannot operate without it. Go for it. Absolutely you can open a private practice as a surgeon when you get out. Many people do. You determine the pace of your lifestyle.

 

[bliss72]

The Army as a policy does not utilize GMOs anymore. They began moving away from that in the late 80's, early 90's. The Navy still uses them to staff their ships that's what HPSPers in the Navy do before entering residency. Army GMOs are usually those who have failed to match for a military residency or a civilian residency. GMOs have been replaced by PAs now. PAs treat troops at Battalion Aid Stations and forward line units, so doctors don't have to. One option you did not mention to him was the FST. The Forward Surgical Team is completely volunteer and very selective but these docs have top secret security clearances and care for surgical emergencies far forward of normal docs and PAs.They are very hush hush about where they go and usually run with SF.

 

[GMO_52]

General Surgery is one of the Army's Critical specialties. We cannot operate without it. Go for it. Absolutely you can open a private practice as a surgeon when you get out. Many people do. You determine the pace of your lifestyle.

As one of our more positive members, let me be the first to say "Who are you sparky?"

 

[Xypathos]

The Army as a policy does not utilize GMOs anymore. They began moving away from that in the late 80's, early 90's. The Navy still uses them to staff their ships that's what HPSPers in the Navy do before entering residency. Army GMOs are usually those who have failed to match for a military residency or a civilian residency. GMOs have been replaced by PAs now. PAs treat troops at Battalion Aid Stations and forward line units, so doctors don't have to. One option you did not mention to him was the FST. The Forward Surgical Team is completely volunteer and very selective but these docs have top secret security clearances and care for surgical emergencies far forward of normal docs and PAs.They are very hush hush about where they go and usually run with SF.

Thank you very much for this post bliss, it's always been a dream of mine to work with a group like the SF.

Would gen surgery or emergency medicine better prepare or make one more qualified for this position?

 

[Galo]

The Army as a policy does not utilize GMOs anymore. They began moving away from that in the late 80's, early 90's. The Navy still uses them to staff their ships that's what HPSPers in the Navy do before entering residency. Army GMOs are usually those who have failed to match for a military residency or a civilian residency. GMOs have been replaced by PAs now. PAs treat troops at Battalion Aid Stations and forward line units, so doctors don't have to. One option you did not mention to him was the FST. The Forward Surgical Team is completely volunteer and very selective but these docs have top secret security clearances and care for surgical emergencies far forward of normal docs and PAs.They are very hush hush about where they go and usually run with SF.

You are either an IDG alter ego, a big liar, a psychotic recruiter, or just plain stupid and ignorant. You will see me call stuff like I see it. If I was in Brooklyn, I'd put out a contract on you.

You are giving advice to a bunch of well meaning, naive med students who think being a general surgeon operating while bombs are going off, living the MASH life is what its going to be like, and you are encouraging it.

It called an MFST, M being for MOBILE. It is NOT volunteer, nor is it selective. You do not need a TOP SECRET security clereance, just the standard clereance every doc has. They are not specifically attached to Special Forces. They are a body who got chosen out of a hat for duty in the desert.

I am calling you out. Who and what are you. What experience are you basing your lies on?

EVERY person who is thinking about joining the military needs to read this forum extensively, and learn to wade through the bull#$t that people like this and Idg spout.

I got my experience by being an active duty general surgeon for 6 years, and have seen many of my friends be deployed to sit on their ass for 6 months, and let their skills atrophy.

Anyone who is thinking about the military, should contact a base and speak to current active surgeons or otherwise, to see what is really happening. Internet forums are filled with trolls, and liars. If you see no reason to trust anything anyone here says, go directly to the source, no doctor will not be willing to talk to a perspective med student, and give their advice. Call as many as you can.

Read pro's con's, avoid military medicine, decline of military medicine.

 

[Croooz]

Why is everyone getting all spun up? This young person hasn't even finished college and already has dreams about AFTER paying back their time in the military.

There is at least 7 years till they are in uniform so any advice about who does what, where is pretty pointless. We have no idea what milmed will look like at that time. More importantly whether or not any of the advice will matter since they are about to become a sophomore in college.

Xypathos,
Your best bet of running with SF is to sign up with them now, if possible get selected, and go thru the training. You can do this in the National Guard. After your whirlwind career you can be a physician in the outside world, and a SF soldier when on active duty. There was a Major who did this. Well actually he was a Major and resigned his commission to be a SF operator again.

All this "hush hush" talk sounds very suspicious to me. I smell a recruiter...and the smell stinks.

 

[former military]

The Army as a policy does not utilize GMOs anymore. They began moving away from that in the late 80's, early 90's. The Navy still uses them to staff their ships that's what HPSPers in the Navy do before entering residency. Army GMOs are usually those who have failed to match for a military residency or a civilian residency. GMOs have been replaced by PAs now. PAs treat troops at Battalion Aid Stations and forward line units, so doctors don't have to. One option you did not mention to him was the FST. The Forward Surgical Team is completely volunteer and very selective but these docs have top secret security clearances and care for surgical emergencies far forward of normal docs and PAs.They are very hush hush about where they go and usually run with SF.

In the AF the FST is not completely volunteer.... the Gen Surgeons attempted to place me, an urologist, on it to function as a trauma surgeon. The gen surgeons at Travis AFB had been deployed so repeatedly they were desparate to stop and tried to force me to go... the only thing that stopped this was that there is a rule specifically against other surgical specialties being used as such.... Don't believe anything you hear.

 

[notdeadyet]

In fact, I was even "ballsy" (as my recruiter called me) that after I graduated HS in 2004 I went to MEPS and while sitting down with the Army branch, I said "I only want to see what the Army is like, so I don't want some 5 year contract. In fact, I want a 1 year contract as a 31B or nothing at all."

Wow. Does the Army do this? I can't imagine what use it would be to enlist people for one year. I'd think that neither the Army nor the signer get much out of that.

Also, should I be looking at other residencies that will permit me to live my adrenaline lifestyle to the fullest in the military and once back in civilian life that will also permit me to work in a private practice to my own tune and make as much money as I see fit to make? If so, what residencies would these be? I assume FP and EM maybe?

I'd recommend reading up a bit more on the other forums about the different specialties you're talking about here.

 

[Xypathos]

and yes, it was the Army that I signed a one year contract with. You have to remember that the Army has missed its recruiting goals for several years now, they're desperate and will take who they can.

My training was from January until early May --- so they got almost a full 8 months out of me if not a little more.

They agreed to the contract, so I'd assume that they made a profit from it on some level.

 

[Xypathos]

Why is military medicine being dissed so much? Are military docs really sitting around doing nothing but twiddling their thumbs like everyone is making them out to be? It seems people make military docs out to be just pencil pushers ... wasting away their skills doing nothing. How far is that from the truth?

And please, unbiased opinions --- people that just hate the idea of serving in the military need not respond, or at least make it known that you just hate the military and are trying to persuade people not to practice in the military.

 

[bliss72]

As one of our more positive members, let me be the first to say "Who are you sparky?"

I am Premedical Major in my 3rd year and AMSA member and an HPSP recruiter in NY. But as I said when I got here, I am here as a student, for me, not to recruit.


Signed
"Sparky"aka SSG Brandon Butcher

 

[bliss72]

You are either an IDG alter ego, a big liar, a psychotic recruiter, or just plain stupid and ignorant. You will see me call stuff like I see it. If I was in Brooklyn, I'd put out a contract on you.

You are giving advice to a bunch of well meaning, naive med students who think being a general surgeon operating while bombs are going off, living the MASH life is what its going to be like, and you are encouraging it.

It called an MFST, M being for MOBILE. It is NOT volunteer, nor is it selective. You do not need a TOP SECRET security clereance, just the standard clereance every doc has. They are not specifically attached to Special Forces. They are a body who got chosen out of a hat for duty in the desert.

I am calling you out. Who and what are you. What experience are you basing your lies on?

EVERY person who is thinking about joining the military needs to read this forum extensively, and learn to wade through the bull#$t that people like this and Idg spout.

I got my experience by being an active duty general surgeon for 6 years, and have seen many of my friends be deployed to sit on their ass for 6 months, and let their skills atrophy.

Anyone who is thinking about the military, should contact a base and speak to current active surgeons or otherwise, to see what is really happening. Internet forums are filled with trolls, and liars. If you see no reason to trust anything anyone here says, go directly to the source, no doctor will not be willing to talk to a perspective med student, and give their advice. Call as many as you can.

Read pro's con's, avoid military medicine, decline of military medicine.

First off I am a 91WM6 Licensed Pratical Nurse with an Expert Field Medical Badge, I have worked in hospitals and TO&E units. It is called MFST NOW but when I was on one it was called an FST period. I am NOT here to promote anything so keep your punk threats to yourself. I am here for ME not as a recruiter but for ME. He asked a question, I gave an answer to the best of my knowledge and having been in the military for the last 8 years, going on my third tour after leaving University of Miami and serving a number of places I would certainly think I am familiar with the system....Sir.

PS My uncle is also a general surgeon(MAJ), my aunt is a nurse anethetist (MAJ) and has been on an MFST. Neither of them were born here but chose to serve when they could be making loads of money on the outside. But I have encountered the same "As a surgeon I know everything" attitude that you are displaying when I worked in the PACU. Do not cast threats sir because if you would like to act on them, I'll tell you where I work and live. I REITERATE I AM HERE FOR ME NOT TO RECRUIT. You'll get no sales pitches from me. I do not think I should have to twist someone's arm for them to help themselves. I am no used car salesman.

I know what it is like to sit on your butt for six months not using yor skills but at least you didn'th ave to use your tender hands to dig trenches or burn human waste or even sit in 100 degree desert with the grunts while the Surgeons like yourself were probably in Air conditioning complaining. I am studying to go to medical school because my entire family was very poor, I am doing through the Army because out of the 6 people in my family that served inthe Army, 3 in the Air Force and two in the Navy. I am the only native born American, so I think I should do my part too. Do not pass judgement on me.

 

[bliss72]

Why is everyone getting all spun up? This young person hasn't even finished college and already has dreams about AFTER paying back their time in the military.

There is at least 7 years till they are in uniform so any advice about who does what, where is pretty pointless. We have no idea what milmed will look like at that time. More importantly whether or not any of the advice will matter since they are about to become a sophomore in college.

Xypathos,
Your best bet of running with SF is to sign up with them now, if possible get selected, and go thru the training. You can do this in the National Guard. After your whirlwind career you can be a physician in the outside world, and a SF soldier when on active duty. There was a Major who did this. Well actually he was a Major and resigned his commission to be a SF operator again.

All this "hush hush" talk sounds very suspicious to me. I smell a recruiter...and the smell stinks.

The Hush Hush is because I've been on one. Most people seem to forget that recruiters are also soldiers. They do a job that no one wants to do, wake up at 0530 to take people to MEPS, stay and make phone calls till 1000 at night, work 6 days a week, have a higher divorce rate than SF, get protested, hung up on, called names, threatened by parents and students. Have people make them travel miles and then stand them up and all in the name of an Army that told them they have to do it or get out. So don't be so quick to cast judgement on Recruiters, they have a tough, thankless job, I know I have to do it and my original MOS is an Army LPN. I would love to return to nursing but duty calls. I would love to just be able to go to school and study without interruption for my MCAT, but duty calls. I would love to spend time with my family and take leave but duty calls.

 

[Croooz]

As long as they are honest I have no problems with recruiters or anyone else. It's once they start lying or not presenting the whole truth that I have a problem.

Giving the impression that a physician without having been an 18D has a snowballs chance in hell of becoming a SF doc is not presenting the whole truth. How many physicians have the opportunity to become SF docs? Not merely stationed with SF? How many will get sent thru the pipeline? How many should? I know the answers to these questions but someone who doesn't know the military nor has any experience with SF will not. They'll go with your answer and then be in for a world of regret and anger when they realize they've been "half-truthed" into signing.

Don't be so quick to pass judgement yourself. Many of us here have "been there, done that" and served with hundreds of HPSP docs who were miserable and were told only half the story.

Being poor, having served, currently serving, liking/disliking....none of that matters if these kids are only going to hear "ra ra" and "hush hush".

The Hush Hush is because I've been on one. Most people seem to forget that recruiters are also soldiers. They do a job that no one wants to do, wake up at 0530 to take people to MEPS, stay and make phone calls till 1000 at night, work 6 days a week, have a higher divorce rate than SF, get protested, hung up on, called names, threatened by parents and students. Have people make them travel miles and then stand them up and all in the name of an Army that told them they have to do it or get out. So don't be so quick to cast judgement on Recruiters, they have a tough, thankless job, I know I have to do it and my original MOS is an Army LPN. I would love to return to nursing but duty calls. I would love to just be able to go to school and study without interruption for my MCAT, but duty calls. I would love to spend time with my family and take leave but duty calls.

 

[bliss72]

As long as they are honest I have no problems with recruiters or anyone else. It's once they start lying or not presenting the whole truth that I have a problem.

Giving the impression that a physician without having been an 18D has a snowballs chance in hell of becoming a SF doc is not presenting the whole truth. How many physicians have the opportunity to become SF docs? Not merely stationed with SF? How many will get sent thru the pipeline? How many should? I know the answers to these questions but someone who doesn't know the military nor has any experience with SF will not. They'll go with your answer and then be in for a world of regret and anger when they realize they've been "half-truthed" into signing.

Don't be so quick to pass judgement yourself. Many of us here have "been there, done that" and served with hundreds of HPSP docs who were miserable and were told only half the story.

Being poor, having served, currently serving, liking/disliking....none of that matters if these kids are only going to hear "ra ra" and "hush hush".

First off you are not the one being attacked all the time, secondly I NEVER said he would be an SF Doc but MFST do operate in the same zones. After a casualty is triaged and is determined the to be an "Urgent Surgical" you cannot really transport this person too far. When Jessica Lynch was rescued there were a some MFST docs that tended to her after the rescue raid. Do not misinterpret what I am saying, I am not stating that the docs are in there with the teams extracting people but they ARE near enough to the zones where they can administer treatment. We both know that no regular medics roll with the SF team unless they are in a support status, usually in Garrison. Out there it is the 18D that cares for the teams but the MFST certainly is not Battallion Aid Station nor is it a CSH. They are pretty close to the FLOT. Those docs get imminent danger pay, well at least the ones I knew.

Working with the SF and for the SF are two different things. I merely told him the TRUTH. As a member of the MFST is the closest most docs will get to the high speed stuff. There is a Doc I worked with named Uhorchak an orthopedic surgeon, he had both SF and Ranger tabs as a doc. Make no mistake, SF is is still SF and if one cannot cut the mustard, it doesn't matter what specialty is, you won't be SF. But do not misrepresent in the extreme negative either,some people live for that kind of stuff, you never know, this guy could be super stud and make it. I would be lying if I said he couldn't do it all. It all depends on the individual. I know I can't do it, but members of my family have. Too many people attack without reading my entire response or read what they want out if because they are dead set on the "recruiter is a liar premise". Just remember this, I can't put you in the Army, it is board of officers that decides who gets the scholarship, a board of officers who decides if you are officer material, not me. I am a facilitator, I run around for transcripts and recommendation letters. I have had people apply and get non-selected, I have people apply, get selected and then decline. You have more say than I do on joining the army.


Anyway on another note which one is better Kaplan or Princeton review? I have my own med school worries.

 

[Croooz]

For a military member you are ubber sensitive.

Here's a perfect example why you're being attacked. Read the response of the young person who started the thread

Thank you very much for this post bliss, it's always been a dream of mine to work with a group like the SF.

Would gen surgery or emergency medicine better prepare or make one more qualified for this position?

Does that give you the impression he knows what you were talking about? Does it not better illustrate how he is now confused and an unscrupulous recruiter will convince him to sign with the dangling carrot of SF? If you are the unscrupulous recruiter I don't know. What I do know is your answers, while not recruiting, are viewed by novice eyes as the bottom line. So if you are here for yourself then you will need to give complete answers and not assume these young people have any idea about the military.

Extreme negative? What planet are you on? How many physicians will have the oppurtunity to become SF qualified physicians? If 100 want it how many will the Army take? Maybe, just maybe 1 or 2. The extreme negative is the reality that you join to become a physician. All the HSLD stuff is left to those men who have to do it not simply think it's a cool thing to do.

Unless you've done time as a physician commissioned in the military most of what you say is hearsay. It's quite alright. I'm not a physician yet either and stay in my lane. I suggest you do the same. Offer facts. Not what you believe to be facts but facts.

Start with the fact that the OP believes they can become SF because of your post. Whose fault is that? Is it theirs for not knowing all the background information? How far along the paperwork trail would they get before being told the extreme reality that they have very little chance of becoming a SF doc? How long before they are told that the team you are talking about and SF are not synonymous?


To your last question...I'm registered for the ExamKrackers review myself.

First off you are not the one being attacked all the time, secondly I NEVER said he would be an SF Doc but MFST do operate in the same zones. After a casualty is triaged and is determined the to be an "Urgent Surgical" you cannot really transport this person too far. When Jessica Lynch was rescued there were a some MFST docs that tended to her after the rescue raid. Do not misinterpret what I am saying, I am not stating that the docs are in there with the teams extracting people but they ARE near enough to the zones where they can administer treatment. We both know that no regular medics roll with the SF team unless they are in a support status, usually in Garrison. Out there it is the 18D that cares for the teams but the MFST certainly is not Battallion Aid Station nor is it a CSH. They are pretty close to the FLOT. Those docs get imminent danger pay, well at least the ones I knew.

Working with the SF and for the SF are two different things. I merely told him the TRUTH. As a member of the MFST is the closest most docs will get to the high speed stuff. There is a Doc I worked with named Uhorchak an orthopedic surgeon, he had both SF and Ranger tabs as a doc. Make no mistake, SF is is still SF and if one cannot cut the mustard, it doesn't matter what specialty is, you won't be SF. But do not misrepresent in the extreme negative either,some people live for that kind of stuff, you never know, this guy could be super stud and make it. I would be lying if I said he couldn't do it all. It all depends on the individual. I know I can't do it, but members of my family have. Too many people attack without reading my entire response or read what they want out if because they are dead set on the "recruiter is a liar premise". Just remember this, I can't put you in the Army, it is board of officers that decides who gets the scholarship, a board of officers who decides if you are officer material, not me. I am a facilitator, I run around for transcripts and recommendation letters. I have had people apply and get non-selected, I have people apply, get selected and then decline. You have more say than I do on joining the army.


Anyway on another note which one is better Kaplan or Princeton review? I have my own med school worries.

 

[bliss72]

For a military member you are ubber sensitive.

Here's a perfect example why you're being attacked. Read the response of the young person who started the thread

Does that give you the impression he knows what you were talking about? Does it not better illustrate how he is now confused and an unscrupulous recruiter will convince him to sign with the dangling carrot of SF? If you are the unscrupulous recruiter I don't know. What I do know is your answers, while not recruiting, are viewed by novice eyes as the bottom line. So if you are here for yourself then you will need to give complete answers and not assume these young people have any idea about the military.

Extreme negative? What planet are you on? How many physicians will have the oppurtunity to become SF qualified physicians? If 100 want it how many will the Army take? Maybe, just maybe 1 or 2. The extreme negative is the reality that you join to become a physician. All the HSLD stuff is left to those men who have to do it not simply think it's a cool thing to do.

Unless you've done time as a physician commissioned in the military most of what you say is hearsay. It's quite alright. I'm not a physician yet either and stay in my lane. I suggest you do the same. Offer facts. Not what you believe to be facts but facts.

Start with the fact that the OP believes they can become SF because of your post. Whose fault is that? Is it theirs for not knowing all the background information? How far along the paperwork trail would they get before being told the extreme reality that they have very little chance of becoming a SF doc? How long before they are told that the team you are talking about and SF are not synonymous?


To your last question...I'm registered for the ExamKrackers review myself.

You know, his quote says he always wanted the ability to work WITH the SF not BECOME SF. You want to talk about lanes? As a healthcare recruiter we work with a host of people including consultants who happen to be the physicians who decide what docs qualify for the Army and the Branch Managers that decide where they go when they do access and assignments while they are in. What I am saying is not speculation, just because something is difficult, has a high attrition rate or low possiblity of success, doesn't make it impossible. If you would like to see what one emergency room physician did since being in, since I am "speculating", send me an email address in a private message and I'll send you HIS Power point presentation of all the things HE did. Things like working in Antartica, working for NASA, then you tell me if these things are impossible and I am working off of hearsay. What it boils down to is this, I am a HEALTHCARE RECRUITER, I am supposed to know because I get asked these questions DAILY. If I don't know, then I am supposed to know where to find the answer or find someone who can. When I answer PROGRAM questions and ARMY questions I answer that anything is possible if you take the right channels. That is the truth. I do not have to be a Ranger to understand the Ranger selection process. Everything else you are talking about is subjective, not the objective truth. You believe it is impossible so you are dead set that it is and everyone else is a liar. I show you one person that contradicts your pre-conceived notions about what you can do, you will probably shout " you made that up". I have no need to make anything up. The beauty of my job is I get paid no matter if 600 take the scholarship or 0 people take it. I have been in 8 years and I am about to get promoted to E-7, people told me THAT was impossible but here I am, living proof. You know why? I did everything possible to posture myself with the right assignments and achievements to get promoted ahead of my peers. That is why there is a system of evaluation for NCOs and Officers. There are Docs who do more than just care for patients, they teach, make policy, work with SF, do humanitarian work, work at the White House, do research...etc. If you would like to view that powerpoint Iw ould be glad to send it to you.

BTW I thank you for at least being a gentleman/lady and civil, I do enjoy responding to your posts.

Is Kramkracers expensive? I just found out how much Princeton review costs.

 

[chopper]

If you would like to view that powerpoint Iw ould be glad to send it to you.

sorry for the snide comment, but you are already on your way to a great career in the military, by realizing early on the all-importance of power points! So, if I sent you a POWER POINT presentation showing the problems with milmed, then you would believe? At least you are falling for the same recuriting fluff you are handing out. Power point presentation does not necessarily equal reality. They are advertising gimicks for whatever the presenter is 'selling' (From MY extensive experience on military staffs over the years).

Oh, and TPR and Kaplan are both about the same price. I liked TPR myself. Ended up teaching for them. But I've heard good things about Examcrackers as well. You will find that for any review system, it is what you put into it that matters. Good luck.

 

[Croooz]

Round and round we go....

You assume he knows the difference of what working WITH SF entails.

BTW what does NASA and the Antartic have to do with SF? Anyone can luck out and get a tour at NASA or the Antartic. Hell I turned down an Antartic tour so what does that prove?

Name me more than 1 or 2 that have gone that route....in say the last 4 years. This is why you are getting flamed. As a recruiter you are presenting what is possible but not likely. Is it possible that women will be allowed in SF? Possible but not likely. So then I should encourage young women who are interested in SF to sign up because there is always the possibility?

You present the exception as if it's the rule. I'm not talking about attrition or anything dealing with making it thru selection. I'm talking about the likelihood of getting to selection in the first place.

There are a host of things that are possible in the military but what is likely is that the needs of the service will override anything else. If your dreams match up to the needs of the service then it'll work.

Expensive? Depends on how expensive the difference between a 25 vs a 35 on the MCAT will be.

You know, his quote says he always wanted the ability to work WITH the SF not BECOME SF. You want to talk about lanes? As a healthcare recruiter we work with a host of people including consultants who happen to be the physicians who decide what docs qualify for the Army and the Branch Managers that decide where they go when they do access and assignments while they are in. What I am saying is not speculation, just because something is difficult, has a high attrition rate or low possiblity of success, doesn't make it impossible. If you would like to see what one emergency room physician did since being in, since I am "speculating", send me an email address in a private message and I'll send you HIS Power point presentation of all the things HE did. Things like working in Antartica, working for NASA, then you tell me if these things are impossible and I am working off of hearsay. What it boils down to is this, I am a HEALTHCARE RECRUITER, I am supposed to know because I get asked these questions DAILY. If I don't know, then I am supposed to know where to find the answer or find someone who can. When I answer PROGRAM questions and ARMY questions I answer that anything is possible if you take the right channels. That is the truth. I do not have to be a Ranger to understand the Ranger selection process. Everything else you are talking about is subjective, not the objective truth. You believe it is impossible so you are dead set that it is and everyone else is a liar. I show you one person that contradicts your pre-conceived notions about what you can do, you will probably shout " you made that up". I have no need to make anything up. The beauty of my job is I get paid no matter if 600 take the scholarship or 0 people take it. I have been in 8 years and I am about to get promoted to E-7, people told me THAT was impossible but here I am, living proof. You know why? I did everything possible to posture myself with the right assignments and achievements to get promoted ahead of my peers. That is why there is a system of evaluation for NCOs and Officers. There are Docs who do more than just care for patients, they teach, make policy, work with SF, do humanitarian work, work at the White House, do research...etc. If you would like to view that powerpoint Iw ould be glad to send it to you.

BTW I thank you for at least being a gentleman/lady and civil, I do enjoy responding to your posts.

Is Kramkracers expensive? I just found out how much Princeton review costs.

 

[Galo]

First off I am a 91WM6 Licensed Pratical Nurse with an Expert Field Medical Badge, I have worked in hospitals and TO&E units. It is called MFST NOW but when I was on one it was called an FST period. Sir.

Well, lpn with expert field badge, the army must be scraping the bottom of the barrel. MFST teams in the AF are made up of a General surgeon, and Orthopod, an Anesthesiologist, or CRNA, a scrub tech, and a Registered Nurse.

I REITERATE I AM HERE FOR ME NOT TO RECRUIT. You'll get no sales pitches from me. I do not think I should have to twist someone's arm for them to help themselves. I am no used car salesman.


Yet later on this thread you admit to being a "healthcare recruiter." So what is it that people are supposed to believe? You have a crap "job" that you are being paid for, but don't try to pull B.S. on this forum. There are too many people with experience that will call you out on your crap.

I know what it is like to sit on your butt for six months not using yor skills but at least you didn'th ave to use your tender hands to dig trenches or burn human waste or even sit in 100 degree desert with the grunts while the Surgeons like yourself were probably in Air conditioning complaining.


My buddy that was deployed was in a new camp with no AC, and did in fact dig latrines as well as play primary care doc, while for 6 months his surgical skills languished. It was an AF camp, not army. Also, LPN skills are not as critical as skills that took minimun 10 yrs to learn.


I am studying to go to medical school because my entire family was very poor, I am doing through the Army because out of the 6 people in my family that served inthe Army, 3 in the Air Force and two in the Navy. I am the only native born American, so I think I should do my part too. Do not pass judgement on me.


Good for you. The child of an immigrant family does good. Well, same here. But I have never posted that, because it has NOTHING to do with military medicine and the extremely poor condition in which it currently exists. You don't know anything about that because you are just a student. You have not even been to med school, yet you are recruiting into a field you have NO idea of exactly what it is. So chill out your hurrah's. If you want to be effective, tell the truth, research it. Why don't you yourself call up some bases and talk to current active duty Army surgeons, ask them if they are satisfied, would they do it again, would they talk to students.

So far, you've made yourself here look no more ethical than an unscrupulous used car salesman. Also take a chill with your sir's, I am no longer on active duty.

 

[bliss72]

First off I am a 91WM6 Licensed Pratical Nurse with an Expert Field Medical Badge, I have worked in hospitals and TO&E units. It is called MFST NOW but when I was on one it was called an FST period. Sir.

Well, lpn with expert field badge, the army must be scraping the bottom of the barrel. MFST teams in the AF are made up of a General surgeon, and Orthopod, an Anesthesiologist, or CRNA, a scrub tech, and a Registered Nurse.

I REITERATE I AM HERE FOR ME NOT TO RECRUIT. You'll get no sales pitches from me. I do not think I should have to twist someone's arm for them to help themselves. I am no used car salesman.


Yet later on this thread you admit to being a "healthcare recruiter." So what is it that people are supposed to believe? You have a crap "job" that you are being paid for, but don't try to pull B.S. on this forum. There are too many people with experience that will call you out on your crap.

I know what it is like to sit on your butt for six months not using yor skills but at least you didn'th ave to use your tender hands to dig trenches or burn human waste or even sit in 100 degree desert with the grunts while the Surgeons like yourself were probably in Air conditioning complaining.


My buddy that was deployed was in a new camp with no AC, and did in fact dig latrines as well as play primary care doc, while for 6 months his surgical skills languished. It was an AF camp, not army. Also, LPN skills are not as critical as skills that took minimun 10 yrs to learn.


I am studying to go to medical school because my entire family was very poor, I am doing through the Army because out of the 6 people in my family that served inthe Army, 3 in the Air Force and two in the Navy. I am the only native born American, so I think I should do my part too. Do not pass judgement on me.


Good for you. The child of an immigrant family does good. Well, same here. But I have never posted that, because it has NOTHING to do with military medicine and the extremely poor condition in which it currently exists. You don't know anything about that because you are just a student. You have not even been to med school, yet you are recruiting into a field you have NO idea of exactly what it is. So chill out your hurrah's. If you want to be effective, tell the truth, research it. Why don't you yourself call up some bases and talk to current active duty Army surgeons, ask them if they are satisfied, would they do it again, would they talk to students.

So far, you've made yourself here look no more ethical than an unscrupulous used car salesman. Also take a chill with your sir's, I am no longer on active duty.

You are quite violent and the reason we got into this was because YOU threatened me. "If I was in Brooklyn, I would put a hit out on you" That kind of talk can get you banned. You crossed the line. Next, I tell people that I am a health care recruiter because people often ask for help for things having to do with the scholarship. IE someone has already asked me to help them get the proper Direct Deposit form so they can get their stipend. I am not trying to put anyone in from this site. I DON'T CAREif someone wants the scholarship or not otherwise I would not be in the military forum with disgruntled people who are already in the military, I would look in other forums. You are obviously an angry person and whatever got screwed up with you is not my fault. Bottom line did you get your med school paid for? I am happy for you. When you are done with the military for better or worse you still have no tuition bills to pay off.

As for the bottom of the barrel, what are you? top of the food chain? I see so many physicians that cannot pass the EFMB and try 6,7, and 8 times. Why? Failure to follow directives, a problem when you think you know everything.

As for speaking to surgeons in the military, I worked in PACU at West Point and Walter Reed, one of the reasons I wanted to complete my education and go to med school. Motivated, positive military surgeons who cared about my friends and helped them get back on their feet. Not ones that bitched about this and that.

I do my "sucky" job as a recruiter because it is my duty, I serve in the Armed Forces and I do not get involved in the politics of the war because it is my duty. That's what it means to serve.

As for my immigrant background, I mentioned that because it always amazes me that the majority of the people who want to take the military opportunities, even if it risks their lives, are people who weren't born here. My family, not me, they are the heroes, because they chose to serve a country not theirs. This is my duty as a citizen.

If you feel otherwise, then you are entitled to your opinion, I never said that you weren't, but don't down others for having a different opinion. Just because I don't eat pork doesn't mean that no one else shouldn't. I am very saddened that you have made my stay here as a student an angry one. I am merely trying to get where you are, I am trying to network in a system that is difficult for someone who has been out of school for 8 years.

I know of many surgeons who have no regrets. They come and speak at our events, they say what they like and what they don't like. Most of them have been in a number of years. I am an NCO, I can't tell an officer what to say. That is the beauty of it, once you are done and you have finished your obligation, get out. Resign your commission, do whatever makes you happy as an American, I will not criticize you for leaving if you are unhappy. That is YOUR experience, but not everyone's.

You can always find people to spread bad news, hence the reason News networks are in business. No one believes somone when they say their experience has been positive. Why should that be considered BS? Is the negative side of the story the only truth? If I were to believe some residents I would not want to be a physician as a civilian either because the only thing they find satisfying is the prospect of BIG BUCKS. They hate the fact they have to do 60-80 to 100 hour work weeks, the hate the fact that they are being paid a lousy sum of money. If everyone listened to their version of the story, we would have no doctors. If people were only motivated by money, we'd have no teachers, cops, firemen, sanitation workers (well maybe not, they get paid alot LOL).

All in all, it is easy to find people to complain, what have you done to improve it? Get out? Have you ever met a Surgeon who was happy being in the military? If you did, would he be a liar? Or maybe he is motivated by something other than himself? I am not saying you are but give those of us a break who have not had the same experience or have a different outlook on life. That's all.

I hope you read this and take a breath and answer me, calmly and free of threats and insults. I am not grouping you with the disgruntled, I am letting you define yourself. I am here to learn from you as much as I am here to help anyone that asks me. Other than that I appreciate your choice to serve and your choice to be a PHYSICIAN. I aspire to be what you are.

 

[bliss72]

sorry for the snide comment, but you are already on your way to a great career in the military, by realizing early on the all-importance of power points! So, if I sent you a POWER POINT presentation showing the problems with milmed, then you would believe? At least you are falling for the same recuriting fluff you are handing out. Power point presentation does not necessarily equal reality. They are advertising gimicks for whatever the presenter is 'selling' (From MY extensive experience on military staffs over the years).

Oh, and TPR and Kaplan are both about the same price. I liked TPR myself. Ended up teaching for them. But I've heard good things about Examcrackers as well. You will find that for any review system, it is what you put into it that matters. Good luck.

Actually I would believe the power point you sent me, then I would weigh the positive with the negative and make a decision, an informed one. The reason I said I'd send you a power point from that doc was to show you some of the atypical things he did. I am not brainwashed into thinking that the Army is a place where streams are made of choclate and children are laughing and playing to pun the Team America Movie. I am well aware that in some places in the Army things don't go well and sometimes they really suck. I know that not everyone gets what they want, but for godsakes I am in the military LOL. I put my hopes down and deal with what I get, If I get what I want, great!! If I don't then I just try again or seek another avenue. That's the reason it has taken me 8 years to finish my education. The Army said my job comes first so if I want to stay inthe Army I have to adjust fire until I am able to go to school. I am definitely not trying to paint a rosy picture here but I am leaving myself open to possibilities no matter how remote. LOL we have more chance of getting hit by lightning twice than winning the Megamillions but it doesn't stop people from trying. ( I know I do). All I have to say is don't invalidate possibilities. Some are lucky, some are not, some are motivated, some are not. If people just accepted that the law said black people couldn't vote or ride in the front of the bus, America would still be segregated. Somebody has to try, even when it seems impossible. Thanks for your responding, I really do enjoy when people are at least polite. It is ok to agree to disagree as long as we are not hurting each other or hurling threats like some people in this forum.

I saved up for TPR, I will try exam crackers, I am trying toget myself down to no more than 30 sec- 1 minute per question. My brain feels like it is going to explode with all this Organic Chem!!

 

[Galo]

You are quite violent and the reason we got into this was because YOU threatened me. "If I was in Brooklyn, I would put a hit out on you" That kind of talk can get you banned. You crossed the line. Next, I tell people that I am a health care recruiter because people often ask for help for things having to do with the scholarship. IE someone has already asked me to help them get the proper Direct Deposit form so they can get their stipend. I am not trying to put anyone in from this site. I DON'T CAREif someone wants the scholarship or not otherwise I would not be in the military forum with disgruntled people who are already in the military, I would look in other forums. You are obviously an angry person and whatever got screwed up with you is not my fault. Bottom line did you get your med school paid for? I am happy for you. When you are done with the military for better or worse you still have no tuition bills to pay off.

As for the bottom of the barrel, what are you? top of the food chain? I see so many physicians that cannot pass the EFMB and try 6,7, and 8 times. Why? Failure to follow directives, a problem when you think you know everything.

As for speaking to surgeons in the military, I worked in PACU at West Point and Walter Reed, one of the reasons I wanted to complete my education and go to med school. Motivated, positive military surgeons who cared about my friends and helped them get back on their feet. Not ones that bitched about this and that.

I do my "sucky" job as a recruiter because it is my duty, I serve in the Armed Forces and I do not get involved in the politics of the war because it is my duty. That's what it means to serve.

As for my immigrant background, I mentioned that because it always amazes me that the majority of the people who want to take the military opportunities, even if it risks their lives, are people who weren't born here. My family, not me, they are the heroes, because they chose to serve a country not theirs. This is my duty as a citizen.

If you feel otherwise, then you are entitled to your opinion, I never said that you weren't, but don't down others for having a different opinion. Just because I don't eat pork doesn't mean that no one else shouldn't. I am very saddened that you have made my stay here as a student an angry one. I am merely trying to get where you are, I am trying to network in a system that is difficult for someone who has been out of school for 8 years.

I know of many surgeons who have no regrets. They come and speak at our events, they say what they like and what they don't like. Most of them have been in a number of years. I am an NCO, I can't tell an officer what to say. That is the beauty of it, once you are done and you have finished your obligation, get out. Resign your commission, do whatever makes you happy as an American, I will not criticize you for leaving if you are unhappy. That is YOUR experience, but not everyone's.

You can always find people to spread bad news, hence the reason News networks are in business. No one believes somone when they say their experience has been positive. Why should that be considered BS? Is the negative side of the story the only truth? If I were to believe some residents I would not want to be a physician as a civilian either because the only thing they find satisfying is the prospect of BIG BUCKS. They hate the fact they have to do 60-80 to 100 hour work weeks, the hate the fact that they are being paid a lousy sum of money. If everyone listened to their version of the story, we would have no doctors. If people were only motivated by money, we'd have no teachers, cops, firemen, sanitation workers (well maybe not, they get paid alot LOL).

All in all, it is easy to find people to complain, what have you done to improve it? Get out? Have you ever met a Surgeon who was happy being in the military? If you did, would he be a liar? Or maybe he is motivated by something other than himself? I am not saying you are but give those of us a break who have not had the same experience or have a different outlook on life. That's all.

I hope you read this and take a breath and answer me, calmly and free of threats and insults. I am not grouping you with the disgruntled, I am letting you define yourself. I am here to learn from you as much as I am here to help anyone that asks me. Other than that I appreciate your choice to serve and your choice to be a PHYSICIAN. I aspire to be what you are.

OK sparky take it easy. Taking out a hit on you oviously went over your head, as you live in Brooklyn, so did I. In fact I trained there.

Now, as for you posts. I still don't think its a good idea for you to come out so gun ho, then tell people your not a recruiter, then tell people you are.


Unfortunately you will not be able to understand the level of frustration that I experienced in the military, as a physician, and as an officer. My father was also enlisted, and I felt what was sold to me was a place where excellence was required. In fact, over the 10 yrs since I took my scholarship many things happened, Tricare amongst the most notorious that severely damaged the ability of certain physicians to stay current. That coupled with the decline in funding, and the leaving of good physicians with the ascension of officers instead of doctors into positions of leadership, has made the military a place to languish in as a physician. You really should read some of the threads I have recommended to prospective HPSP'ers, to see what the current state of military medicine really is.

I do get angry, passionately angry when I know what I went through can happen to any devoted person who goes in without the knowledge of what is happening in today's military medicine. If you read through the threads you will find that many of us disgruntled docs went in with all good intentions, some even prior service. I was proud to serve, and happy I could help our soldiers. Knowing that they are now being served by a medical machine that is broken makes me even more upset. YOu really should learn who and what you are advertising for before you make blanket statements about work performance, what jobs are available, and most important training. There are published statistics and papers about how military medicine is in trouble, and I will not let you come to this forum and candy coat it for some naive student who thinks he's gonna be killing enemy while putting a stich in.

Although we have tried to call them out, there are very few peple here who are acutally physicians that have been on active duty that can advocate for the military. There are NO surgeons that have ever posted anything positive. So if you can have one of them post on this site, it should open up healthy discussion everyone can learn from.

All of us who post are proud to have served. No one has ever denied that. What upsets us is seeing an increasingly disfunctional system poke along, and leave many people in uniform with less than desirable health care.

I am working on my anger!

OUT

 

[mumiitroll]

Wow. Does the Army do this? I can't imagine what use it would be to enlist people for one year. I'd think that neither the Army nor the signer get much out of that.


I'd recommend reading up a bit more on the other forums about the different specialties you're talking about here.

I think it is applaudable if army allows 1yr enlistments. If that guy then goes to medschool and then decides to make military medicine as his career, the army has much more to gain than if it had fooled some guy to waste 6years as an enlisted soldier even though that's not the kind of career that is suitable for him.

 

[bliss72]

OK sparky take it easy. Taking out a hit on you oviously went over your head, as you live in Brooklyn, so did I. In fact I trained there.

Now, as for you posts. I still don't think its a good idea for you to come out so gun ho, then tell people your not a recruiter, then tell people you are.


Unfortunately you will not be able to understand the level of frustration that I experienced in the military, as a physician, and as an officer. My father was also enlisted, and I felt what was sold to me was a place where excellence was required. In fact, over the 10 yrs since I took my scholarship many things happened, Tricare amongst the most notorious that severely damaged the ability of certain physicians to stay current. That coupled with the decline in funding, and the leaving of good physicians with the ascension of officers instead of doctors into positions of leadership, has made the military a place to languish in as a physician. You really should read some of the threads I have recommended to prospective HPSP'ers, to see what the current state of military medicine really is.

I do get angry, passionately angry when I know what I went through can happen to any devoted person who goes in without the knowledge of what is happening in today's military medicine. If you read through the threads you will find that many of us disgruntled docs went in with all good intentions, some even prior service. I was proud to serve, and happy I could help our soldiers. Knowing that they are now being served by a medical machine that is broken makes me even more upset. YOu really should learn who and what you are advertising for before you make blanket statements about work performance, what jobs are available, and most important training. There are published statistics and papers about how military medicine is in trouble, and I will not let you come to this forum and candy coat it for some naive student who thinks he's gonna be killing enemy while putting a stich in.

Although we have tried to call them out, there are very few peple here who are acutally physicians that have been on active duty that can advocate for the military. There are NO surgeons that have ever posted anything positive. So if you can have one of them post on this site, it should open up healthy discussion everyone can learn from.

All of us who post are proud to have served. No one has ever denied that. What upsets us is seeing an increasingly disfunctional system poke along, and leave many people in uniform with less than desirable health care.

I am working on my anger!

OUT

Thank you, you made me smile. I am no longer angry with you. Now I understand EXACTLY what you are saying. Yeah and growing up in Brooklyn myself I might have taken that joke seriously LOL.

BTW I never said I wasn't a recruiter, I am just not here to recruit. Believe me when you spend 12-15 hours a day recruiting, you don't want to hear another person say " So how does the scholarship work?"on your time. LOL

If people look, under my name it says HPSP counselor/Student. I am not trying to hide what I do,because I am NOT a liar. If someone needs help on a MODS question or stipend problem they can ask me , like some people already have. But I am glad we are flying the white flags.

 

[bliss72]

I think it is applaudable if army allows 1yr enlistments. If that guy then goes to medschool and then decides to make military medicine as his career, the army has much more to gain than if it had fooled some guy to waste 6years as an enlisted soldier even though that's not the kind of career that is suitable for him.

Yes this is true but the problem is, when you get a 1yr enlistment your choice of MOSs is very limited. You will get only fast train jobs available to you ie. infantry, cook, yada yada. The Army will not spend money to train you to be an LPN or a Pharmacy Tech or X-RAY tech (all 12 month training)and then release you after it's over so the longer the training, the longer the committment. The only exception to this is when someone is already trained in a particular job. If you were already an LPN , the Army doesn't need to train you and it is easy fro them to release you after a year.

 

[mumiitroll]

Why is military medicine being dissed so much? Are military docs really sitting around doing nothing but twiddling their thumbs like everyone is making them out to be? It seems people make military docs out to be just pencil pushers ... wasting away their skills doing nothing. How far is that from the truth?

And please, unbiased opinions --- people that just hate the idea of serving in the military need not respond, or at least make it known that you just hate the military and are trying to persuade people not to practice in the military.

I did a lot of reading on this. I can suggest that you do on this forum searches such as "dmo", "flight surgeon", "battalion surgeon", "afsoc", "specwar", "ship gmo",etc to arrive at the same info as I. Here is a summary of what i got:
1) if you plan to go into a high paying specialty like plastic surgery, you will do at least 6years of residency training. by the time you become board certified you'll be quiete old and your outlook on life will change.
2) in this case signing up for the military is financially bad for you. let's say you sign up for 4 years. then you do military residency and then you work for 4 years as a military surgeon making $120k/yr. In the civilian world you'd be making $500k/yr, so even though military pays for your school, you basically lost $1million to go to Iraq... When you are done, if you still plan to be a plastic surgeon, you now have to do a civilian fellowship, working at $50k/yr for 2 years, and you're now 35yo?
3) This is why i think if you're just looking for some fun, the best way to go is to take hpsp and do a gmo tour for 3-4yeras and then get out and do civilian residency. That way you'll get out 5 years younger, so you'll be more motivated to succeed in the civilian world. While hpsp is financially bad for you, keep in mind that it pays for your school and gives you a stipend while in medschool, making you quiete independent at an early age. Decide for yourself if that's good for you. Some might stay away from the military because they figure if they do residency and get a cushy job before 35, they might go on long expensive adventures/vacations at 35, while you're still working like a middle class pawn(but you might join them 3-4years later).

4) navy offers gmo positions as dmo or flight surgeon. neither of those positions assumes much medical skills. i.e. your medical experience will be equivalent to moonlighting at a hospital as a pgy-2. but believe me, military appreciates you in those positions, and if you like them, you'll remember them as experiences of a lifetime. as an army surgeon, as i said, you'll first finish residency and then your position in the military will actually involve a lot of medical skills, you might treat military injuries that you wouldn't see in the civilian world. but as i said, you'll be older, and you'll probably want to be married, which is why i think army sucks.

5) From what i've read, army battalion surgeons can be assigned to ranger or special forces battalions. Then you can expect to go to airborne school and possibly ranger school. In terms of work it might mean that you might parachute into some hostile country and set up a field hospital. You might hike with your medical tools in your backpack...

6) As a navy fs, you do 6months of schooling and then you can get assigned to an operational air squadron, which may be attached to an aircraft carrier. Then most of the time you primary care for the aircrew on your base while getting to fly on some fighter jets once a week. When your aircraft carrier deploys, you get to take a long cruise and visit many countries and of course you get to fly helicopters and jets on the aircraft carrier. Of course the pilot does most of the flying, but he would let you hold the stick occasionally... Also flight surgery has overseas billets, like Diego Garcia, you might just chill for a year on some tropical island in the middle of nowhere and fly Bombers!

7) Air force has an interesting program, called "afsoc flight surgeon". No one wrote much about it, so description is very limited... They are attached to the air force specops command in hurlburt,fl. They are in support role, and it is very unlikely that they would go to any schools beyond airborne. Many of their missions involve medevacs, so they fly in helicopters a lot, but never on any combat missions. They are possibly in charge of training pararescue jumpers in medical emt skills. They do deploy a lot (9months out of the year) but only in support role. It means they likely do set up hospitals with their own medications in backpack. But based on all this it is unclear if their job is fun or not. They have 1year of training, but what that training entails is unknown, it might be interesting or it might be some boring bull****.

8) navy dmo-navy dive doc said that he didnt deploy more than 30months out of several years. they train 6months, mostly in diving. Then their missions may involve small tours on submarines, dives to check on some ship wreckage; if you're assigned to eod mobile teams, you may go to airborne school, jump out of helicopter, and you may deploy more often. but to me, it is not clear why jumping out of a helicopter once a year or diving to some ship wreckage(which a civilian might do as well), or shooting a rifle or riding in a boat is more cool than flying fighter jets and bombers as a flight surgeon. Here is an interesting bio on some dmo: http://www.uncw.edu/aquarius//2003/08_2003/Foster.htm

While navy fs seems coolest to me, i was not able to obtain as much info about dmo or afsoc fs...

 

[mumiitroll]

Yes this is true but the problem is, when you get a 1yr enlistment your choice of MOSs is very limited. You will get only fast train jobs available to you ie. infantry, cook, yada yada. The Army will not spend money to train you to be an LPN or a Pharmacy Tech or X-RAY tech (all 12 month training)and then release you after it's over so the longer the training, the longer the committment. The only exception to this is when someone is already trained in a particular job. If you were already an LPN , the Army doesn't need to train you and it is easy fro them to release you after a year.

i heard army had a 2yr rangers contract. it's not 1yr, but i think if a high school student feels that he's not ready to go to college and wants to do something exciting, it's much better than to do poorly in college or to do something else stupid like just bumming around for 2 years. so i certainly wouldn't discourage the army from advertising various jobs which may not lead to careers in the same field.

 

[mumiitroll]

For a military member you are ubber sensitive.

Here's a perfect example why you're being attacked. Read the response of the young person who started the thread

Does that give you the impression he knows what you were talking about? Does it not better illustrate how he is now confused and an unscrupulous recruiter will convince him to sign with the dangling carrot of SF? If you are the unscrupulous recruiter I don't know. What I do know is your answers, while not recruiting, are viewed by novice eyes as the bottom line. So if you are here for yourself then you will need to give complete answers and not assume these young people have any idea about the military.

Extreme negative? What planet are you on? How many physicians will have the oppurtunity to become SF qualified physicians? If 100 want it how many will the Army take? Maybe, just maybe 1 or 2. The extreme negative is the reality that you join to become a physician. All the HSLD stuff is left to those men who have to do it not simply think it's a cool thing to do.

Unless you've done time as a physician commissioned in the military most of what you say is hearsay. It's quite alright. I'm not a physician yet either and stay in my lane. I suggest you do the same. Offer facts. Not what you believe to be facts but facts.

Start with the fact that the OP believes they can become SF because of your post. Whose fault is that? Is it theirs for not knowing all the background information? How far along the paperwork trail would they get before being told the extreme reality that they have very little chance of becoming a SF doc? How long before they are told that the team you are talking about and SF are not synonymous?


To your last question...I'm registered for the ExamKrackers review myself.

No offence, but i don't think many doctors "want to be SF". If you're not one at 18, i dont see why you'd want to be one at 35. But i'm sure it's not hard to "work with SF" if you still want it after going through surgery residency training(which i dare to say is much harder than sf training). I think that going to a combat scuba school would be real cool, and even a 35yo doctor might want to go, but you can't have everything.

 

[Croooz]

Unless you've been both SF and gone thru surgery residency then you have no frame of reference to speak intelligently on which is more difficult.

Please direct your comments to those youngsters who have these fantasies. I'm not one of them. I got the HSLD stuff out of my system long ago.

No offence, but i don't think many doctors "want to be SF". If you're not one at 18, i dont see why you'd want to be one at 35. But i'm sure it's not hard to "work with SF" if you still want it after going through surgery residency training(which i dare to say is much harder than sf training). I think that going to a combat scuba school would be real cool, and even a 35yo doctor might want to go, but you can't have everything.

 

[bliss72]

No offence, but i don't think many doctors "want to be SF". If you're not one at 18, i dont see why you'd want to be one at 35. But i'm sure it's not hard to "work with SF" if you still want it after going through surgery residency training(which i dare to say is much harder than sf training). I think that going to a combat scuba school would be real cool, and even a 35yo doctor might want to go, but you can't have everything.

Believe me, I am one of those with no desire to do that. After 30 (I'm 34) my body started hurting, so my high speed dreams are over LOL. Some still shoot for the Paratrooper badge, and Air Assault but SF and Ranger are still SF and Ranger. It washes out 18 year olds, I haven't a snowball's chance to do that. I've only met one Orthopaedic surgeon who had both of them, he is now retired and living outside of West Point. I wish I had gotten those badges when I just got in but now my body cannot hack the punishment anymore.

 

[Croooz]

mumitroll please refrain from posting on things you've read about and think are accurate. Your post above is full of hearsay and all the possibilities with very little reality.

This is the Military Medicine forum. It should be a place for those with military medical experience to post. Not a free for all for those merely interested and who read a thread or two and now believe they are knowledgeable.

Learn from the experienced not the learned.

 

[bliss72]

i heard army had a 2yr rangers contract. it's not 1yr, but i think if a high school student feels that he's not ready to go to college and wants to do something exciting, it's much better than to do poorly in college or to do something else stupid like just bumming around for 2 years. so i certainly wouldn't discourage the army from advertising various jobs which may not lead to careers in the same field.

Yes that is called the Ranger option, but you are basically signing up for the infantry with an contractual option to go to the Ranger Indoctrination Program (RIP).What you MUST be aware of is if you fail Airborne school, bye bye Ranger option. I would never encourage or discourage someone to do what is in their heart to do. If you that's right for you, who am I to stomp on your dreams?

 

[mumiitroll]

mumitroll please refrain from posting on things you've read about and think are accurate. Your post above is full of hearsay and all the possibilities with very little reality.

This is the Military Medicine forum. It should be a place for those with military medical experience to post. Not a free for all for those merely interested and who read a thread or two and now believe they are knowledgeable.

Learn from the experienced not the learned.

Crooz, you haven't said anything useful here at all. Do you claim to be a former SF soldier, a med student now, or what? From reading your posts, you mostly criticize others but you never answer any questions directly. The few posts that you wrote about how army doctors get to go to combat scuba school or not are incoherent and mostly serve to glorify your own military experiences rather than inform us of any career opportunities. Most of the info that i cited is not "hearsay". I cited people like navy dive doc and others who had a history of telling their military experiences honestly. There is more about military that i need to know, as my summary of gmo positions clearly isn't very comprehensive. It is important for people to know about job opportunities in the military when they are deciding whether to pick army or navy or af hpsp or whether to do hpsp at all.

 

[Croooz]

Does mumi know your on her computer?
Since you need it spelled out...

YOU WILL NOT BE SPECIAL FORCES.

You call your drivel useful? I answer what it is I know about. Since you want to imply I'm a liar I'll call you a ******. Fair enough?

Wait a second...I remember you. Your Mr. 45MCAT who wants to enlist to become a pilot, SF, PJ, SEAL. Why didn't you say so? I'll sit back and listen to you and all your 0 years of military wisdom & experience.

Quit wasting our time. Sign on the dotted line or go to med school. Just make sure you wear your bike helmet in that short yellow bus of yours. Make a decision. There's enough info here for you to do that without you cluttering the threads with your fantasies of combat.

In the, now infamous, words of IgD

Find some other place to troll?

 

[mumiitroll]

Your post is as anti-intellectual as ever. You failed to answer whether you're in med school, what military experience you have,etc. I am fairly certain you are not a physician right now. If you even get into a medschool, you'll probalby wind up in one of the ****tiest residencies. All your posts demonstrate only how bitter you are, you don't come here to ask/answer any questions about military medicine.
As for me, i specifically said in this thread that someone like me would have to be fairly stupid to even want "to be special forces". Why would a physician want to do an enlisted man's job?
My post about gmo positions was certainly not intended for you. I hope you don't even become a doctor.

Does mumi know your on her computer?
Since you need it spelled out...

YOU WILL NOT BE SPECIAL FORCES.

You call your drivel useful? I answer what it is I know about. Since you want to imply I'm a liar I'll call you a ******. Fair enough?

Wait a second...I remember you. Your Mr. 45MCAT who wants to enlist to become a pilot, SF, PJ, SEAL. Why didn't you say so? I'll sit back and listen to you and all your 0 years of military wisdom & experience.

Quit wasting our time. Sign on the dotted line or go to med school. Just make sure you wear your bike helmet in that short yellow bus of yours. Make a decision. There's enough info here for you to do that without you cluttering the threads with your fantasies of combat.

In the, now infamous, words of IgD

 

[Croooz]

First of all the use of the word "anti-intellectual" would imply that I'm against intellectuallism. I'm just against your brand of juvenile drivel.

Grow up junior.

The great thing about the military is even if I get the crappiest residency I can deal with it since I did 12 years in military medicine as a.....(go search). Semper gumby is something the military teaches in spades.

So which is it mommyTROLL? You just posted

As for me, i specifically said in this thread that someone like me would have to be fairly stupid to even want "to be special forces". Why would a physician want to do an enlisted man's job?

Someone like you? So you went from taking the MCAT to a physician? So now you're a doctor? So this week you don't want to enlist.....funny. On 08-02-2006, 08:25 PM you wrote,

Let's say you are on your way to applying to med school, did well on mcat, but instead you decide to enlist.. You took mcat just to ensure that 3 years later, if your scores expire, you know you can take it again and do just as well. You lose 4 years. Gi Bill might pay for medschool? But then you would be an extremely old med student. On the other hand, if you do hpsp and do 4 years of payback as a flight surgeon, you will start civilian residency and life at the same old age. So financially it wouldn't be much different. But if i told my parents that i wanted to enlist after doing well on the mcat, they would say "are you trying to give us a heart attack"? with hpsp they would be more understanding, because it pays for med school though they would still offer to pay for med school/take out loans instead.

In both cases: hpsp or enlistment, i'm interested in the military because i want to have fun, do something that i won't be able to do once i become a civilian doctor. Both flight surgeon and enlisted pj are fun jobs, but the latter is more appealing to me. But the risk with enlistment is that it's possible to get hurt and that might jeopardize my career.

So what do i do?

You are crazy everywhich way from Sunday and the real problem is you appear so normal. On second thought, you are exactly what the military is looking for.

 

[orbitsurgMD]

Your post is as anti-intellectual as ever. You failed to answer whether you're in med school, what military experience you have,etc. I am fairly certain you are not a physician right now. If you even get into a medschool, you'll probalby wind up in one of the ****tiest residencies. All your posts demonstrate only how bitter you are, you don't come here to ask/answer any questions about military medicine.
As for me, i specifically said in this thread that someone like me would have to be fairly stupid to even want "to be special forces". Why would a physician want to do an enlisted man's job?
My post about gmo positions was certainly not intended for you. I hope you don't even become a doctor.

Are you serious about going to medical school and becoming a doctor? Having done well on MCATs takes you only to your applications, no farther. From your post, it sounds as if you would rather do other things with your time. Keeping your parents happy, or from having a "heart-attack" is a poor reason to become a doctor, no matter how competitive your application might be. That will not sustain you in the tiring and lengthy training you will have to do, or through the lifetime commitment to the profession you will need to have to remain a capable, productive and satisfied doctor. If you are not completely committed to that, then you should stop.

As far as enlisting or commissioning to do special forces work, that should be a completely separate decision. Maybe a conversation with someone in the special forces would be a better starting point for that than this board. I have met exactly two ex-special forces medical professional people in my active duty time, one a dentist and one a physician. Both did those things before college and professional school.

 

[Croatalus_atrox]

All of this discussion sparked by an Original Poster who's so full of **** that his eyes are brown.

Let's see, he somehow managed to get a one-year enlistment contract, despite the fact that, by US law, the minimum contracted initial enlistment is 15 months (not counting basic training and AIT). Beyond that, all enlistments incur an 8 year total MSO. Not to mention that he says he enlisted in Jan (I assume in 2004), trained until May of 2004, and separated 8 months later. Yet, in another of his posts, he says he separated from the Army in April 2005, which is just shy of a year post-training. So which is it?

Being that he is supposed to be a wrestler at Cornell College who graduated from a high school in Winston-Salem, NC sometime in 2003-04, there isn't a freshman student on the 05-06 wrestling roster at CC that matches his description.

Or how about this one...in his introductory post in the "New Members" subforum, he says that he performed an emergency trach on a person who fell and injured his neck/trachea this summer. After only having a course in CPR/AED. And that a physician/surgeon later congratulated and praised him for his actions.

So, Xypathos, how do you explain this? By all means, show me that I'm wrong. More likely, I'll bet that your posts magically disappear from your posting history.

Don't waste any more time on this assclown.

 

[former military]

All of this discussion sparked by an Original Poster who's so full of **** that his eyes are brown.

Let's see, he somehow managed to get a one-year enlistment contract, despite the fact that, by US law, the minimum contracted initial enlistment is 15 months (not counting basic training and AIT). Beyond that, all enlistments incur an 8 year total MSO. Not to mention that he says he enlisted in Jan (I assume in 2004), trained until May of 2004, and separated 8 months later. Yet, in another of his posts, he says he separated from the Army in April 2005, which is just shy of a year post-training. So which is it?

Being that he is supposed to be a wrestler at Cornell College who graduated from a high school in Winston-Salem, NC sometime in 2003-04, there isn't a freshman student on the 05-06 wrestling roster at CC that matches his description.

Or how about this one...in his introductory post in the "New Members" subforum, he says that he performed an emergency trach on a person who fell and injured his neck/trachea this summer. After only having a course in CPR/AED. And that a physician/surgeon later congratulated and praised him for his actions.

So, Xypathos, how do you explain this? By all means, show me that I'm wrong. More likely, I'll bet that your posts magically disappear from your posting history.

Don't waste any more time on this assclown.

When in doubt, make **** up! We had this guy who was in my residency who got run out... first, he missed the annual inservice and came in bruised and scraped up..."he was mugged the day of the inservice". He then told a bunch of people that he had to do a roadside amputation to save this guy's life at the scene of a car accident. Then, after bounced from the residency, he was GMOing it in the desert and made Stars and Stripes with this other big lie. He was the military's Catch me if you Can. Nobody could make a patient's chart disappear like he could. He may be solely responsible for the electronic record!

 

[MedicalCorpse]

He was rather strucken back and pushed me to reconsider the 5 year enlistment option and I held strong so he made some calls and the next day they had the paperwork for me to sign.

Strucken? You will make an excellent military medical General officer.

R. Carlton Jones, M.D.
http://www.medicalcorpse.com