UTH vs UTSA vs UTMB vs TAMU

[cyanide12345678]

Hey everyone!

Well many consider UTH, UTSA, UTMB, and TAMU as Mid tier schools in Texas. But, how would you rank these 4 against each other in the Texas match (Like which would be No.1, No. 2 and so on out of the 4 schools)? And why would you rank them as such?

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[NickNaylor]

I would go with UTH first strictly because it's in a pretty urban area and has access to Texas Medical Center. Everyone's going to have their own opinions, though, depending on what you're looking for and thoughts on the school.

 

[Stumpyman]

Honestly they're all great schools, but I'd also go with UTH as first, then TAMU, then UTMB, and UTSA.

SA and MB are improving rapidly, so is AM.

 

[ozzi22]

honestly they're all great schools, but i'd also go with uth as first, then tamu, then utmb, and utsa.

Sa and mb are improving rapidly, so is am.

+1

 

[torshi]

Hey everyone!

Well many consider UTH, UTSA, UTMB, and TAMU as Mid tier schools in Texas. But, how would you rank these 4 against each other in the Texas match (Like which would be No.1, No. 2 and so on out of the 4 schools)? And why would you rank them as such?

Personal preference:

UTH > UTMB > UTSA > TAMU

 

[AestheticMed]

UTH simply b/c it's right in the heart of the medical center and connects directly to Memorial Hermann.

 

[cyanide12345678]

UTH simply b/c it's right in the heart of the medical center and connects directly to Memorial Hermann.

Nobody seems to be giving any love to SA. Apparently its the only other school apart from SW (which ofcourse is in another league by itself) that is ranked in the primary care section of usnews. I know rankings don't matter much, but why is SA last in everyone's list in comparison to the other schools?

 

[Stumpyman]

Nobody seems to be giving any love to SA. Apparently its the only other school apart from SW (which ofcourse is in another league by itself) that is ranked in the primary care section of usnews. I know rankings don't matter much, but why is SA last in everyone's list in comparison to the other schools?

SA is rapidly improving but for now they're on the lower end of TX schools.

 

[BA11]

1: UT-Houston (Texas Medical Center alone makes this an easy #1 out of the schools you listed for most)

2: A&M

3: UTMB

4: UTSA

Just my opinion

 

[BA11]

nm

 

[Morzh]

The crap people spew around here about some schools being better than others is ridiculous. They're all going to give you the exact same quality in your medical education.

The differences in preference lie in intangibles that are going to vary person-to-person. Things like curriculum style, location, emphasis on research vs primary care vs purposefully well-rounded. The student body will more or less be the same at all of them--mostly Texans.

My personal list: UTHSCSA>UTMB=UTH>A&M. The new curriculum San Antonio is implementing with next year's class sounds amazing. Galveston and Houston are both too humid and farther away from family than UTHSCSA or A&M. A&M is good but I'd prefer not to attend a school where there's a good chance I'll be moving again in two years to go elsewhere for my clerkships. The Texas Medical Center in Houston isn't really as big of a deal as people here make it out to be. First, the South Texas Medical Center (San Antonio) is equally as impressive. So is the Dallas/Ft Worth area medical center (whatever it's called) for UTSW and TCOM. Second, as medical students we will be learning at such a basic level that we will be nowhere near prepared enough to appreciate or benefit much extra from giant medical centers versus smaller ones (like A&M's). Those kinds of things matter more for residency considerations, but not so much right now.

And I've always been irked when people start paying attention to USNews Rankings or start labeling schools generally as being "low-tier", "high-tier", etc. If it is an LMCE accredited school, the education provided will be more than you can possibly absorb in four years. This truth becomes more apparent once you see a group of fresh interns and realize that the Loma Linda graduates are just as good (and sometimes better) than the Columbia graduates standing next to them.

 

[deleted393595]

How about the Techs?

 

[Morzh]

How about the Techs?

Yeah I was wondering that too. Tech-Lubbock is on par with all of the aforementioned schools. However, for me, Lubbock=A&M for the same reason that the class is split up for years 3 and 4. But the curriculum and instruction is just as good as anyone's. El Paso is new and very focused on creating border/rural primary care physicians. If that mission doesn't fit you, then it will be lower on your list. But its not like schools in Houston or Dallas or San Antonio have secret textbooks that they teach out of that create far more knowledgeable doctors than schools in smaller towns.

 

[Whatyousay]

How about the Techs?

TTUHSC - Heavy focus on rural medicine / primary care. Depends on how enthusiastic you are about spending 4 years in Lubbock or West Texas.

Foster - Relatively new. Heavy emphasis on rural medicine / primary care. The new medical building is nice, but some of the teaching hospitals seem a bit old. Seems like there are opportunities to see / do things during clinical rotations that other students may not have access to. This school seems like it's highly dependent on "fit."

 

[minerva3121]

Hey everyone!

Well many consider UTH, UTSA, UTMB, and TAMU as Mid tier schools in Texas. But, how would you rank these 4 against each other in the Texas match (Like which would be No.1, No. 2 and so on out of the 4 schools)? And why would you rank them as such?

Here's how I'd rank them for the match:

School that fits me best and where I'd be happiest > School with 2nd best fit > School with 3rd best fit > School with worst fit for me

How do I determine "fit"? Like Morzh, I look for things like curriculum: will I be in basic science lectures 8-4 every day, or do I finish class at noon/1 and then spend some time with groups in problem-based learning? Clinical rotations: will I be staying on the same campus all 4 years, or will I be exposed to different patient populations in my 3rd and 4th years? Facilities/affiliated hospitals: are there a lots opportunities for clinical experience in primary care or different specialties on campus? Location: how far away is the school from my family?

I knew very little about these things (except location) before interviewing at all 4 schools, so I'm assuming the posters who won't be applying until future cycles are mostly basing their rankings on USNews.

 

[rockyrado]

The new curriculum San Antonio is implementing with next year's class sounds amazing.

Out of curiosity, do you know what the new curriculum will be like?

 

[Morzh]

Out of curiosity, do you know what the new curriculum will be like?

The first semester of MS-I will consist of integrated modules teaching the basic sciences necessary to develop a sound understanding (biochemistry, anatomy, etc.). These will primarily be lectures in the AM only. Afternoons will consist of clinical skills development (the HEB clinical skills center is new and looked really impressive). Every Friday morning will be a PBL session. Every Monday morning will be review of the previous week's material and introduction to that week's PBL case (you spend Tue-Thur preparing individually for the Fri PBL discussion group) This is all the first semester only of MS-I

Starting the second semester and continuing through the end of your second year, there will be 9 organ-based modules that integrate both the basic and clinical sciences. Second year ends in mid-March, leaving ~8 weeks to study for and take step 1, whereas many other schools only give you 4 or 5 weeks. To me this is probably the most significant aspect, as there is a strong correlation between time given off to study for step 1 and average step 1 scores. So basically they are doing away with the traditional distinction between MS-I and MS-II where the first year was all basic science/normal physiology, and second year is all abnormal physiology. They are moving to a more integrated approach, designed to prepare you better for step 1 and success in your clerkships. It's not too heavily focused on PBL, but nor is it as much overkill on the low-yield (for step 1) basic science stuff that used to dominate their first year. At my interview we were told they hired the former dean at UCLA to help design this curriculum, a similar version of which was a major success several years ago at UCLA.

3rd and 4th year are supposed to be moderately restructured as well, but I don't know much about that.

All lectures will be available after class online as video podcasts. Attendance at these lectures is purely optional, so you can tailor your learning methods to your personal preferences. All the small group stuff is not optional, though.

This is a powerpoint detailing the new curriculum (presented to faculty it seems like, not potential applicants) with a much more detailed breakdown.

 

[rockyrado]

The first semester of MS-I will consist of integrated modules teaching the basic sciences necessary to develop a sound understanding (biochemistry, anatomy, etc.). These will primarily be lectures in the AM only. Afternoons will consist of clinical skills development (the HEB clinical skills center is new and looked really impressive). Every Friday morning will be a PBL session. Every Monday morning will be review of the previous week's material and introduction to that week's PBL case (you spend Tue-Thur preparing individually for the Fri PBL discussion group) This is all the first semester only of MS-I

Starting the second semester and continuing through the end of your second year, there will be 9 organ-based modules that integrate both the basic and clinical sciences. Second year ends in mid-March, leaving ~8 weeks to study for and take step 1, whereas many other schools only give you 4 or 5 weeks. To me this is probably the most significant aspect, as there is a strong correlation between time given off to study for step 1 and average step 1 scores. So basically they are doing away with the traditional distinction between MS-I and MS-II where the first year was all basic science/normal physiology, and second year is all abnormal physiology. They are moving to a more integrated approach, designed to prepare you better for step 1 and success in your clerkships. It's not too heavily focused on PBL, but nor is it as much overkill on the low-yield (for step 1) basic science stuff that used to dominate their first year. At my interview we were told they hired the former dean at UCLA to help design this curriculum, a similar version of which was a major success several years ago at UCLA.

3rd and 4th year are supposed to be moderately restructured as well, but I don't know much about that.

All lectures will be available after class online as video podcasts. Attendance at these lectures is purely optional, so you can tailor your learning methods to your personal preferences. All the small group stuff is not optional, though.

This is a powerpoint detailing the new curriculum (presented to faculty it seems like, not potential applicants) with a much more detailed breakdown.

You are a stud. Thank you kindly.

 

[cyanide12345678]

Second year ends in mid-March, leaving ~8 weeks to study for and take step 1, whereas many other schools only give you 4 or 5 weeks. To me this is probably the most significant aspect, as there is a strong correlation between time given off to study for step 1 and average step 1 scores.

I'm sorry for the ignorance, but is STEP 1 mostly taken after 2nd year med school? It sounds rather soon to me :S

 

[minerva3121]

I'm sorry for the ignorance, but is STEP 1 mostly taken after 2nd year med school? It sounds rather soon to me :S

Yup, Step 1 comes between 2nd and 3rd years of med school.

 

[cyanide12345678]

Here's how I'd rank them for the match:

School that fits me best and where I'd be happiest > School with 2nd best fit School with 3rd best fit > School with worst fit for me

So by that definition, what do you think of SW with its gunner reputation and somewhat unhappy students? I personally think I will love the relaxed laid back environment of SA where I don't have to attend classes. I've gone through 3 years of college with around a 20% attendence in most of my classes Sleeping until 2 pm feels good and makes me happy.

 

[Morzh]

So by that definition, what do you think of SW with its gunner reputation and somewhat unhappy students? I personally think I will love the relaxed laid back environment of SA where I don't have to attend classes. I've gone through 3 years of college with around a 20% attendence in most of my classes Sleeping until 2 pm feels good and makes me happy.

I haven't interviewed at UTSW so I can't say anything other than what I've heard from friends who have been there this year already--which is that the "gunner" reputation is really blown out of proportion. The truth is that UTSW and Baylor are the major research-dominated schools in Texas. They have giant endowments and NIH funding and attract some of the biggest names in academic medicine. If you want that kind of career, where you only "treat" patients in the traditional way 2-3 days a week and spend the rest of your time teaching and doing research, then perhaps those schools would be better options for you. I personally prefer some of the so-called "middle tier" schools because, while they do have strong research programs, their primary goal is to graduate world class physician-clinicians (vs physician-researchers).

I'm stereotyping these schools a bit too much, but my point is that, as has been mentioned, the "best" school is the one that suits your personality, learning style, budget, and long-term career goals best. For me, I can honestly say that I would choose UTHSCSA/Tech/UTMB over UTSW/Baylor, even though the latter are "ranked" higher. That is because I'm 90% sure I want to go into private practice and see patients most of the time. I may occasionally dabble in clinical research on things that are of particular interest to me, but I would never want that to be the cornerstone of my work.

Also, while San Antonio is my top choice, and I'm super excited about being in the inaugural class of its new curriculum luck, other schools have similar curriculum (like UTMB, I've heard). Many other schools also record lectures, but I think UTHSCSA is the only school I know that actually advertises that fact and encourages you not to attend lecture if you learn better watching the videos at home.

Don't pay any attention to what other people, especially pre-meds (including me), say about schools. When it is time for you to apply, just go to as many interviews as you can get and read everything you can about the school and its curriculum, atmosphere, policies, and what current students are saying. Then carefully look inward and decide which school you feel most "at peace" with and excited about. Don't feel pressured to choose the school with the highest rank, most prestigious name, or even lowest tuition. All schools will give you all the knowledge and skills you need. Make your decision based on where you believe you will be the happiest and least stressed (relatively) for the next four years.

 

[Morzh]

I'm sorry for the ignorance, but is STEP 1 mostly taken after 2nd year med school? It sounds rather soon to me :S

Yes, "Step 1" and the first of 3 "steps" of the United States Medical Licensing Examination (USMLE) that you are required to pass in order to become a licensed physician (get DEA number and prescribe drugs, legally treat patients in all 50 states, etc.). Step 1 covers the basic medical sciences--biochemistry, anatomy, physiology, pharmacology, etc. and how they all relate to the various organ systems. Since this is what is taught for the first two years of medical school, the Spring/Summer before 3rd year clerkships start is actually the ideal time to take it. Step 2 you take towards the end of 4th year and I believe it consists of both a clinical knowledge section (CK) as well as clinical skills portion (CS), which is more of a practical demonstration on standardized (actor) patients than a sit-down book test. Step three is usually taken after your first year of residency, or internship. Then you are a real-live, licensed doctor, although you still have to finish you residency and become board certified if you want to be competitively employable.

 

[LRAccord624]

The crap people spew around here about some schools being better than others is ridiculous. They're all going to give you the exact same quality in your medical education.

The differences in preference lie in intangibles that are going to vary person-to-person. Things like curriculum style, location, emphasis on research vs primary care vs purposefully well-rounded. The student body will more or less be the same at all of them--mostly Texans.

My personal list: UTHSCSA>UTMB=UTH>A&M. The new curriculum San Antonio is implementing with next year's class sounds amazing. Galveston and Houston are both too humid and farther away from family than UTHSCSA or A&M. A&M is good but I'd prefer not to attend a school where there's a good chance I'll be moving again in two years to go elsewhere for my clerkships. The Texas Medical Center in Houston isn't really as big of a deal as people here make it out to be. First, the South Texas Medical Center (San Antonio) is equally as impressive. So is the Dallas/Ft Worth area medical center (whatever it's called) for UTSW and TCOM. Second, as medical students we will be learning at such a basic level that we will be nowhere near prepared enough to appreciate or benefit much extra from giant medical centers versus smaller ones (like A&M's). Those kinds of things matter more for residency considerations, but not so much right now.

And I've always been irked when people start paying attention to USNews Rankings or start labeling schools generally as being "low-tier", "high-tier", etc. If it is an LMCE accredited school, the education provided will be more than you can possibly absorb in four years. This truth becomes more apparent once you see a group of fresh interns and realize that the Loma Linda graduates are just as good (and sometimes better) than the Columbia graduates standing next to them.

No, no, and no. As someone who has lived/worked/gone to school in DFW, Houston, and SA, I just want to say that the medical centers are not equal. Yes, there are great physicians and opportunities at each place. The idea of "rankings" is idiotic- every Texas school (every med school) will give you a great education.

Therefore I'll keep my opinions here limited to my own school because people tend to be protective of their institutions and I'd rather not start some kind of argument. I could cite a bunch of reasons why the TMC is awesome, or you could just refer to wikipedia: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Texas_Medical_Center. All I know is that this med center never fails to impress me, every single morning on my way to school. Every few afternoons when I study on the 21st floor of MD Anderson, looking over the entire medical center as helicopters land at Texas Heart and Memorial Hermann. Every Friday when interviewees are led to the observation dome at THI to see an open heart surgery. The list goes on.

 

[LRAccord624]

I'm stereotyping these schools a bit too much

True

The "best" school is the one that suits your personality, learning style, budget, and long-term career goals best.

True

Many other schools also record lectures, but I think UTHSCSA is the only school I know that actually advertises that fact and encourages you not to attend lecture if you learn better watching the videos at home.

False.

Don't pay any attention to what other people, especially pre-meds (including me), say about schools.

True

When it is time for you to apply, just go to as many interviews as you can get and read everything you can about the school and its curriculum, atmosphere, policies, and what current students are saying. Then carefully look inward and decide which school you feel most "at peace" with and excited about. Don't feel pressured to choose the school with the highest rank, most prestigious name, or even lowest tuition. All schools will give you all the knowledge and skills you need. Make your decision based on where you believe you will be the happiest and least stressed (relatively) for the next four years.

Finally. This is all that matters.

 

[Zuerst]

historically...

baylor > or ~= utsw > uth=utmb=utsa > atm > or ~= tech > tcom

it's all about personal fit in the end though

 

[ksmi117]

Moving to the School Specific Discussions forum.

 

[deleted307836]

Fantastic posts morzh, thank you.