UW vs UNC reputation in anesthesia

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Ravenclaw90

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Can anyone offer their 2 cents? I liked UW and UNC equally, but these programs have a very different flavor to them.

UW- huge program with a culture of excellence that also values compassion, located in a big city with a high cost of living that is more catered to singles

UNC- a very nice program with an emphasis on teamwork that is smaller, family friendly, and located in the research triangle

I know I have to make a decision about the lifestyle I want to have, but does anyone have other thoughts on what could be another differentiating factor? For example, is the case mix or exposure to various patient populations better at one or the other? Both seem well rounded to me. My interest is in peds, and both provide a great experience. In regards to academics, does one have a stronger national reputation than the other?

Ultimately I see myself returning to Texas eventually, and since neither are in-state, I can’t easily use proximity as a differentiating factor. The UW class size doesn’t bother me, and I think the faculty seem equally supportive at UW and UNC.

Thanks in advance for your thoughtful consideration.

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Don't know about either program, but

culture of excellence that also values compassion

an emphasis on teamwork

What does that even mean? That sounds like something a nurse would brainstorm at a weekend synergy retreat to put on a brochure for the Joint Commission.
 
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Don't know about either program, but



What does that even mean? That sounds like something a nurse would brainstorm at a weekend synergy retreat to put on a brochure for the Joint Commission.

Haha, I get what you’re saying. “Culture of excellence” is something I heard people at UW say. The program also kept saying they’re looking for compassion in their residents, so that was shorthand for my impression.
 
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Can anyone offer their 2 cents? I liked UW and UNC equally, but these programs have a very different flavor to them.

UW- huge program with a culture of excellence that also values compassion, located in a big city with a high cost of living that is more catered to singles

UNC- a very nice program with an emphasis on teamwork that is smaller, family friendly, and located in the research triangle

I know I have to make a decision about the lifestyle I want to have, but does anyone have other thoughts on what could be another differentiating factor? For example, is the case mix or exposure to various patient populations better at one or the other? Both seem well rounded to me. My interest is in peds, and both provide a great experience. In regards to academics, does one have a stronger national reputation than the other?

Ultimately I see myself returning to Texas eventually, and since neither are in-state, I can’t easily use proximity as a differentiating factor. The UW class size doesn’t bother me, and I think the faculty seem equally supportive at UW and UNC.

Thanks in advance for your thoughtful consideration.

Interesting that you buy the brochure filler rhetoric so literally, but getting more to the point....

One program is in Washington and one is in North Carolina. That’s not exactly close - all things being equal,would you rather spend 4 years on the east coast or the west coast? Consider family, friends.
 
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Ultimately I see myself returning to Texas eventually, and since neither are in-state, I can’t easily use proximity as a differentiating factor. The UW class size doesn’t bother me, and I think the faculty seem equally supportive at UW and UNC.

Thanks in advance for your thoughtful consideration.


I don't think either are drastically different in terms of national reputation. I always encourage people to do residency nearer to where they want to ultimately work (if they care) since personal connections are what leads to jobs. While you may want to ultimately work in Texas, you will more likely take a job closer to where you do residency so I'd go to whichever half of the country seems more appealing to you.
 
I am a PP guy in the middle of the country.

As someone far away from either program with no connections to either, I would not care which you came from.
A single personal connection within a group would sway them towards that choice. You would never receive advertisements for our jobs at either spot, and would have to get lucky with timing of communication attempts to even get an application looked at here.

Those are the logistics you face when looking somewhere very far from either program, it just isn’t worth our time to advertise nationally. However we would gladly talk to people from either spot, no major difference to me. Perhaps someone familiar with both can give you a view on their respective alumni networks. If you want to end in Texas, train in Texas.

Regarding the training, you will do well at both I’m sure.
 
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Don't know about either program, but



What does that even mean? That sounds like something a nurse would brainstorm at a weekend synergy retreat to put on a brochure for the Joint Commission.

NEVER badmouth synergy.
 
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North Carolina is cheaper and would offer a better quality of life probably, that's something to look into as wel.
 
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Can anyone offer their 2 cents? I liked UW and UNC equally, but these programs have a very different flavor to them.

UW- huge program with a culture of excellence that also values compassion, located in a big city with a high cost of living that is more catered to singles

UNC- a very nice program with an emphasis on teamwork that is smaller, family friendly, and located in the research triangle

I know I have to make a decision about the lifestyle I want to have, but does anyone have other thoughts on what could be another differentiating factor? For example, is the case mix or exposure to various patient populations better at one or the other? Both seem well rounded to me. My interest is in peds, and both provide a great experience. In regards to academics, does one have a stronger national reputation than the other?

Ultimately I see myself returning to Texas eventually, and since neither are in-state, I can’t easily use proximity as a differentiating factor. The UW class size doesn’t bother me, and I think the faculty seem equally supportive at UW and UNC.

Thanks in advance for your thoughtful consideration.

I know a lot about UNC but next to nothing about UW, so I can't really make any comparisons. Others have commented on the geographical differences. I can tell you that there are a large number of Duke and UNC grads in Texas as far as connections go. Happy to answer questions about UNC/NC in general via PM if you have them.
 
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Equal programs in terms of quality. But, I'd skip both and go to a program like UT Southwestern instead. Why? The answer is obvious.
 
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Equal programs in terms of quality. But, I'd skip both and go to a program like UT Southwestern instead. Why? The answer is obvious.

Interestingly enough the 4(?) UTSW med students I've interviewed with all seem to equally be fleeing from that program for residency training for various reasons.
 
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i dont have interviews at either but i would imagine seattle infinitely >>>>> chapel hill
 
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If you want to return to metro TX, you should do your residency here or plan on doing a fellowship to get a decent job.
 
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I interviewed at UW last year and actually did not like it. The residents seemed exhausted and beat down. There pay is HORRIBLE for Seattle (do a cost of living comparison.) It was so bad that the residents had just voted to unionize that year. On a side note, wherever there is resident unions typically this means there has been resident abuse.

The program itself had actually not matched a spot the year before which was why I was there (physician only). They had a new PD that seemed nice but a bit overwhelmed. The residents that toured me around spent the whole time complaining how they couldn't get letters for applications (that is a BRIGHT RED FLAG). In short, residents seemed burnt out, there was a feel of malignancy, and I did not want to eat beans out of a can on my salary.

But it has a nice name and Seattle would be great if you are single. I see somewhat the appeal but surprised about your unabashed positive feel for it. Maybe things have changed in the past year :/
 
I'm a former UW resident and feel I should chime in on a couple issues. It's been a little while so forgive me if the details aren't perfect, but they should be in the ballpark.

(1) UW is one of two (I think) centers that has a resident union, the other being UMich. The formation of the union, in my understanding, was less about resident abuse and more about Seattle as a city getting expensive as hell and changes needing to be made to resident benefits to keep up. This was more about financial assistance with parking/biking/bus cost, child care, salary, and academic fund stipend. Some of these things the anesthesiology department already did (more than $1k/yr academic fund for boards/books) but the union made it a standard requirement across all departments. Prior to the unionization, I want to say I was making 56-58K as a PGY2 or PGY3 (can't remember) and then after the union was formed I got a couple thousand dollar bonus and higher increase year to year thereafter. If I remember back to applications, pay should be on FREIDA so you can do your own research... Considering the ENTIRE house staff (all programs at UW) formed the union, it would be hard to say the union was formed because of a single department abusing their residents.

(2) New PD is awesome and very well liked. Prior PD was great as well, but had been doing it for years and decided it was time to step down. The job is a TON of work and the prior PD had been doing it for much longer than the average length nationally. She is still on staff, working at UW so it wasn't a forced transition.

(3) Burnout- I can't speak to what the hours are like this year or moving forward. I think all CA3s at any program are going to have some feelings of burnout just by nature of residency...It's on you as the applicant to ask multiple people and form your own opinion on this.

(4) Seattle is an amazing city and the program's 2 major hospitals (UW and Harborview) sandwich where the best restaurants, bars, etc are at. I would agree that if you're married with kids, and plan on supporting your family on a resident salary it is going to be a rough 4 years financially.

Feel free to PM me if you have more detailed questions.

My advice to the original poster: Go to a program close to where you want a job after you're done.
 
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Feel free to PM me if you have more detailed questions.

My advice to the original poster: Go to a program close to where you want a job after you're done.

Could you PM me please? Seems like I’m unable to, and I’d love to get some more details.

In regards to finances in Seattle, I am single and have student loans. How much of a crutch is it to defer loan payments until after residency is over? This is the main thing keeping me from ranking UW #1 right now. At other programs with lower cost of living, I would be able to pay off $500-1000/mo.
 
Could you PM me please? Seems like I’m unable to, and I’d love to get some more details.

In regards to finances in Seattle, I am single and have student loans. How much of a crutch is it to defer loan payments until after residency is over? This is the main thing keeping me from ranking UW #1 right now. At other programs with lower cost of living, I would be able to pay off $500-1000/mo.
Don't "defer" student loans. Just consolidate and enter RePAYE immediately after you graduate. Your payments the first year of residency will be $0 a month, and then around $80 a month the next year, and probably around $300 a month for your last 2 years. All the while the federal government supplements up to 50% of your interest.

These numbers are just based on UWs salary projections and the current poverty level guidelines. Also dependent on you being unmarried without kids. Feel free to message me if you have questions.
 
I’m a current resident at UNC and interviewed at UW and many other big city programs. While i can’t speak to anything about UW based on experience, i can tell you that both programs are of similar (very good) caliber and reputation. Your decision really should ultimately be based on location. My wife and I enjoy living in Chapel Hill which is a quaint college town neighbored by a hipster up and coming Durham and Raleigh. Plenty of job opportunities for many different fields (especially tech, healthcare, and academia). For me the ultimate deciding factor between Durham/Chapel Hill and west coast was cost of living. My wife and I live in a modern 1K sq ft one bedroom apartment that’s a 10 min drive from the hospital and pay $1,020 a month. That leaves us plenty of money left over to save/invest, go out to eat, travel, etc
 
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I really like UNC's program. It is solid and the area is fantastic; but, the job opportunities are better out West. How much should that alter your decision? Seattle is just too expensive IMHO for what you get.

I can see all sides to this discussion but in the end it comes down to weighing all the pluses and minuses.
 
Equal programs in terms of quality. But, I'd skip both and go to a program like UT Southwestern instead. Why? The answer is obvious.

I understand Blade is trying to make it a point to stay in texas. I do think he used UTSW's name recognition rather than personally endorsing the residency.

I would recommend BCM or UT San Antonio as first choices. PM me for deets on the latter.
 
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I'm a former UW resident and feel I should chime in on a couple issues. It's been a little while so forgive me if the details aren't perfect, but they should be in the ballpark.

(1) UW is one of two (I think) centers that has a resident union, the other being UMich. The formation of the union, in my understanding, was less about resident abuse and more about Seattle as a city getting expensive as hell and changes needing to be made to resident benefits to keep up. This was more about financial assistance with parking/biking/bus cost, child care, salary, and academic fund stipend. Some of these things the anesthesiology department already did (more than $1k/yr academic fund for boards/books) but the union made it a standard requirement across all departments. Prior to the unionization, I want to say I was making 56-58K as a PGY2 or PGY3 (can't remember) and then after the union was formed I got a couple thousand dollar bonus and higher increase year to year thereafter. If I remember back to applications, pay should be on FREIDA so you can do your own research... Considering the ENTIRE house staff (all programs at UW) formed the union, it would be hard to say the union was formed because of a single department abusing their residents.

(2) New PD is awesome and very well liked. Prior PD was great as well, but had been doing it for years and decided it was time to step down. The job is a TON of work and the prior PD had been doing it for much longer than the average length nationally. She is still on staff, working at UW so it wasn't a forced transition.

(3) Burnout- I can't speak to what the hours are like this year or moving forward. I think all CA3s at any program are going to have some feelings of burnout just by nature of residency...It's on you as the applicant to ask multiple people and form your own opinion on this.

(4) Seattle is an amazing city and the program's 2 major hospitals (UW and Harborview) sandwich where the best restaurants, bars, etc are at. I would agree that if you're married with kids, and plan on supporting your family on a resident salary it is going to be a rough 4 years financially.

Feel free to PM me if you have more detailed questions.

My advice to the original poster: Go to a program close to where you want a job after you're done.


This right here.

Current resident, multiple years into residency and went to Med school here.

Uw has this really odd reputation online due to a couple negative posts from way back, and that reputation is promulgated and then reinforced by people picking out random bits of negative things.

As in, a resident saying they ”couldn’t get letters.”

I’m applying for fellowship and I got seven letters, lickety split(I'm applying for a combined fellowship). All of them but one were in within a week of sending the official eras upload letter.

I got offers for interview the last week of December/first week of January, when traditionally interview invites don’t even start going out until late February for my chosen sub specialty.

The training here is killer(pun intended), the attendings are great, and everybody ends up with the type of fellowship or PP job they want. (Maybe not their first choice for fellowship but certainly in the top three of their rank list.)

As for above:

1) The Union is about improving and standardizing benefits for resident. We now get childcare stipends, bike commuting stipends, parking stipends, standardized pay scale and yearly raises. I’m making about 7-9k more at my level of training than others made at this level a few years ago.

2) Hallman is a baller. He comes to bat for you. If you want some training that is a bit out side of the box, you can make it happen. If you get injured and are out for an extended period, he’ll do what it takes to keep you moving towards graduation and the direction you want to head into after that.

3) Burnout. This is a thing, in all residencies everywhere (except maybe dermatology?). Residents here are happy, and sometimes tired from CT call. I can say without a doubt, I was ecstatic that I was fortunate enough to end up here and I am only more thankful as my training goes on. Bottom line, we work hard to become good doctors. Some weeks are sweeeeeeeeeet, some are harder. Last year I think we average 53ish hours a week.

4) Seattle is awesome. It is expensive because of this. Some people in our program are single income supporters of a partner and 2-4 kids. It can be done, just don’t expect to live like royalty. My partner and I live very comfortably with two moderate incomes and one child.

As for original post.

Bro, go where you want to live. Even just having an attending who has a previous medical school classmate, who’s partner has a brother, that has a half sister, who is an ortho surgeon at the hospital you want to work at will take you light years ahead of other candidates.

Work hard, be good, do your best, learn lots.

The rest will take care of itself.

Go Hawks.
 
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Sorry not a frequent poster on this site. I'm glad people chimed in with their experiences at UW. I really did like their program director when I interviewed. I think there is a lot of good things going on there (from my limited perspective). Good luck in your decision.
 
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UW seems legit on all fronts, and deservingly earns a lot of respect. Anyone have insight for the “Continued Accreditation with Warning” effective 1/29/18 on the ACGME site?

This accreditation status caught me by surprise while comparing program data. Imagine it’s something minor but am curious to know the trigger while finalizing my list... once more.
 
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UW seems legit on all fronts, and deservingly earns a lot of respect. Anyone have insight for the “Continued Accreditation with Warning” effective 1/29/18 on the ACGME site?

This accreditation status caught me by surprise while comparing program data. Imagine it’s something minor but am curious to know the trigger while finalizing my list... once more.
Email them about it. It's not unreasonable.
 
This might be a bit late, as I think rank lists are due tonight but:

I believe this stems from an old administrative issue; not problems with resident training, treatment, or performance in other domains.

If you interviewed here, email the PD. I’m sure he would be more than happy to clarify.
 
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This might be a bit late, as I think rank lists are due tonight but:

I believe this stems from an old administrative issue; not problems with resident training, treatment, or performance in other domains.

If you interviewed here, email the PD. I’m sure he would be more than happy to clarify.

That checks with the word I got. At the interview, I was amazed by the overall program and its people. Inspiring.

Seems like a lagging technicality, if you will, that triggered this odd status. Couldn't have imagined a more professional response from the program leadership.

Best of luck to everyone!!
 
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