Vanderbilt vs UAB vs Wake Forest

[gasdocDO]

Hello everyone and happy new year! I have just concluded my interviews and would love your insight on my top 3 programs. To help out, I am interested in both peds and pain and would like to stay on at an academic center in the future. I also have a family and enjoy spending time in the great outdoors when not in the hospital.

Vanderbilt- Great case load with excellent learning opportunities. Impressive people on faculty here. Hospital chief of staff is an anesthesiologist that works closely with the department. Top notch critical care, arguably the best in the country. Really hit it off with the PD and residents. Loved the international anesthesia presence and hope to do lots of mission work in the future. Closest to family. Nashville is a great city, but the traffic is bad. Vandy seemed to be right on track in preparing their resident for the evolving future of our specialty. Embraces the perioperative practice model and has a great relationship with the surgery departments largely due to the work that is being done in this avenue. Great Children's hospital/peds exposure and opportunity to stay on for fellowship. Unaware of the pain exposure that I would get here?? Good work hours (60-65/wk), out of the OR by 4-5. Intern year can be daunting but high yield and manageable from what I hear. Excellent opportunities to do research and stay involved in advocacy. Opportunities to teach medical students/great relationship with the school of medicine. Housing is most expensive compared to others. Longer commute to work. Possible financial problems on the institutional level?

UAB- Also has a good case load with excellent learning opportunities. The attendings are great teachers. Got along great with most of the residents. Offers other learning tracks during training (LEAD program) and good research options. Best option for moonlighting. Bham is a great, mid-sized city. Residents seemed very happy to be here. Not as big of a name in the event that I wanted to practice in other parts of the country in the future. Great chronic pain program at UAB Highlands. International anesthesia opportunities here as well. Intern year wasn't as appealing as the others to me (and yes, I know the intern year is minutia when evaluating programs). Out of the OR by 3 and $70/hr after. Residents work ~60 hrs/wk (non-ICU). Housing affordable but not as sweet as Wake Forest.

Wake Forest- did a visiting rotation here and LOVED it. Furthest from family (BIG negative) but LOVED the location more than any of the others due to size of city, family friendliness, affordability, and proximity to great hiking, biking, kayaking, etc. Unprecedented training in airway devices. Got along great with the residents and love the PD and Asst PD. NO CHAIR currently. Some financial problems on the institutional level? Attendings were great teachers. Very strong pain program. No peds fellowship but great peds exposure. Doesn't do liver transplants. Less impressive caseload compared to Vandy and UAB but more than adequate for great training. Excellent in OB, regional and pain. Weak in CT. Out of the OR by 3 (can't remember if paid $ to stay after) and residents work ~55 hrs/wk. Structured didactics and curriculum that I liked. Opportunity for international experiences. Not as strong in research. Great intern year.

Overall, I would be ecstatic to match at any one of these programs but would love your input to help iron out the details. Thank you in advance!

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[BLADEMDA]

I like all three of your selections a great deal. You can't go wrong with any of them as they are all strong programs. What is your plan for post residency? That may tilt the balance in favor of one of them.

 

[gasdocDO]

Thanks for the response BLADEMDA. At this point I'm interested in doing a fellowship, likely in peds or pain. After my training I see myself at an academic institution somewhere in the Southeast. Thanks again!

 

[gasknight]

I'm also involved in anesthesia advocacy and the ASA.

sounds contradictory

 

[gasknight]

any idea of what the CBY is like at UAB?

 

[GABAergic]

any idea of what the CBY is like at UAB?

Something like this...2 months gen medicine wards, 4 months medicine subspecialty wards, 2 months peds (some get NICU), 1 month each SICU, ED, OR anesthesia, pain clinic. The anesthesia month is at the end of the year, but not necessarily in June.

 

[NICMAN]

All three programs are great. I'm at Wake Forest and would say the pediatric anesthesia experience is excellent and the chronic pain fellowship is one of the best in the country. I looked at both Vandy and UAB when I interviewed last year and ultimately found Wake Forest to be a better fit for me. I liked how Wake Forest was so flexible with the rotations, and how much Dr. Reynolds is constantly tinkering with the intern/CA rotations to make them more educational. I also wanted a place where i knew my family would flourish--short commute, no traffic, safe city, inexpensive, family-friendly culture that extended beyond the program to encompass the entire hospital and community (e.g., great schools, parks, events for children, etc.). All three programs will provide you with an incredible training. It's a very personal decision, and ultimately boils down to which program fits your personality/learning style/larger life goals. For me, I couldn't imagine a program that could be better for me or my family.

 

[Wan2BanMD]

Hi! Can I jump in here? I'm debating between UAB and Wake Forest for my top choice as well... I got the impression that Wake Forest is super family friendly, but maybe not great for the newly wed couples who still want to go out and do some single-type stuff on occasion (beer tastings, sports bars, football games, etc). Did I get the wrong impression? Is there a group of residents that do that kind of stuff regularly? The RSA seems to cater more to women spouses... not sure that my husband would necessarily be interested in all those activities... Thanks for your advice!

 

[gymone1]

I did my residency at Wake Forest. I came single then quickly met my now husband (he's not in medicine). We think Winston is a great town for young couples. We loved all the restaurants/bars downtown. Now having the minor league baseball team downtown is lots of fun. Our residency class had lots of married couples without kids (well at first) so we all went out every week minus the few who were on call. My husband joined the RSA my last year and we did big activities like bowling, wine tasting ect but lots of the activities are geared to wives namely wives that do not work and can meet for lunch on random Tuesday's.

 

[kzjb333]

Anyone else have anything to say about Vanderbilt?

 

[MERICA]

Anyone else have anything to say about Vanderbilt?

I interviewed at all three institutions as a medical student. All are quality programs and you will get solid training from each one. I am a current vanderbilt resident.

Internship- very focused on preparing for anesthesiology (Medicine-VA wards, Cards; Surgery: CT surg, ENT (?); ICU: SICU, MICU, NeuroICU, VA SICU; Anesthesiology: Periop medicine, professional development (?), Anesthesia Bootcamp) A few of the rotations have changed since I was an intern, but the key is that you are constantly in touch with your anesthesiology comrades and the bootcamp month is amazing. All CA-1's are ready to fly solo on July 1.

Didactics- For the bootcamp and CA1s, there are daily lectures for the first month or two covering the absolute basics from preop evaluation to emergence.
CA1s- Wednesday lecture series (06:30- 07:30), mostly covering Morgan and Mikhail, geared for the basic exam.
CA2/CA3s- Advanced lecture series (06:30- 07:30), somewhat covering Barish, but also delving into the stuff that we all need extra teaching- finances, contracts, insurance, certification, and the all important mock oral prep.
Oh, and you get Chick Fil A at these conferences.
Grand Rounds-Fridays from 06:30- 07:30, free breakfast. And there's either a $100 drawing for the residents before GR starts. Once a month at GR, a resident is presented the "golden LMA" award and $100 for exceptional service, nominated by his/her peers.

Hours- variable depending on your service (40 hr/week on PACU, 70+ in the ICU, 60-65 hr/week in the general cases). Generally, you show up at 06:30 in the MAIN (06:00) on Wednesdays and Fridays for room setup, etc. Cases start at 07:30 M/Tu/Th and 08:00 W/F. Relief in the Main is anywhere from 16:00-18:00 but usually on the earlier side.

Call- variable depending on your service
-Main OR call pool (gen surg, ortho, plastics, ENT, ophtho)- weekday call is 3p-7a, weekend 7a-7p -average at least 2-3 golden weekends in the main OR. For the upper level resident, you take over the board at 3P and manage relief for everyone, clear out the PACU, and call in the home call residents for transplants/cardiac cases when needed. Usually, the board is empty by around 9PM, at which time you wait for the inevitable trauma case or crani. For the junior resident, you basically help set up trauma rooms, help in the PACU, order dinner for the call team, and are the in-room provider for the emergent cases (split with the night float resident who is 9P-7A). You also carry the pain pager at night, which can be busy at times. CA1s start call on July 1. I had a posterior fossa crani case on my first call and will never forget it.
-Subspecialties (vascular-hepatic, CT, OB) call is q3 and is 24 hours. OB is in house call and busy, but you get a post call day and second "education day", which is essentially a second post call day. CT and VH frequently done before 9-10 PM on call day and still get post call day off.
-Peds- 1-2 weekend shifts, 1 week of night float (aka sleep/study), easy hours and very relaxed.

Caseload- First few months of CA-1 is by far the most stressful time of residency with tons of reading. You do a month of general surgery and ortho. After getting more efficient and experienced, you move to the subspecialties. Some residents do liver transplants after 3 months into CA1 year. The first few months are basic cases, but frequently involve very sick patients. After that, you get a nice mix of rotation specific basic cases and monster cases. Most residents meet all ACGME minimums by the end of CA1 year with the exception of peds and regional. Some residents don't start cardiac until early CA2 year due to scheduling, but quickly get the minimum after the first month. CA2 seems to be a revolving door of peds, cardiac, OB, vascular hepatic, and advanced general cases.

Research- If you want it, you can have as much as you please. Everyone participates in some sort of quality improvement project. You don't have to be published by any means. Most will at least do a poster for the ASA, since the department pays for the trip.

Moonlighting- Although UAB has an insanely awesome moonlighting program (from what I remember), you have the opportunity to make a significant amount of money starting in CA1 year. Pay is 75/hr and involves the same duties as any other day in the OR. Weeknight moonlighting is 16:00-20:00 and is easy to pick up (5 slots usually per night). Weekend call is divided into 8-12 hour shifts (around 5 slots total for the weekend). Its easy money. There are also two 24 hour home backup call shifts on the weekends in which you get 150 if you don't get called in and 75/hr if you get called in for a potential 1800 bucks, but this is rare.

Life outside of work. Every few months, our department will rent out a restaurant or bar and we get to unwind and have a good time. Nashville is a fun town with tons of activities to fit any personality.

Regarding the financial scare, it is true that the changing healthcare landscape led to the proactive clamping down in the institution, but this likely was happening nationwide. However, our department is doing very well as we still get free meals at lectures, paid educational trips, generous personal educational spending account, paid resident outings at restaurants, Ipad, and 1200 on our meal card.

In summary- solid program, abundant fellowships, great city, very rigorous and stressful at times but reasonable most of the time. I will repeat this again that you will have the potential to be a great anesthesiologist at any of the above programs. Pick the one in which in which your personality best matches the current residents and faculty. Also, If you don't like CRNAs or the idea of the new perioperative surgical home, you probably will be unhappy here. Best of luck in the match.

 

[kortneeluv]

I just got an away rotation at Vandy and I'm thrilled!! What kind of stats did you guys have to get an interview here? I have great board scores/class rank but not much as far as extracurriculars. It has to mean something that I got an away rotation, right??

 

[Quixotic2501]

I just got an away rotation at Vandy and I'm thrilled!! What kind of stats did you guys have to get an interview here? I have great board scores/class rank but not much as far as extracurriculars. It has to mean something that I got an away rotation, right??

~250s Step 1, ~270s Step 2, top 5 rank, AOA. I didn't have much in the way of extracurriculars other than some cursory research, volunteer experience, and class officer positions. I know people who were nowhere near me in scores/grades who got interviews there.

 

[kortneeluv]

What did you think of the program? Did you do an audition month?

 

[Quixotic2501]

What did you think of the program? Did you do an audition month?

No audition rotations or aways.

Nice program, strong intern year, cool city, and really wants to expand the scope of what being an anesthesiologist entails. It's hard to really gauge a program after only a few hours, but there weren't any red flags. Chief of Medicine is an anesthesiologist who will know your name and personal statement and will hang out with you during the lunch.

 

[doresdoc]

What did you think of the program? Did you do an audition month?

PM'ed you.