Virginia Central State Hospital death

[calvnandhobbs68]

Video shows Virginia deputies and medical staffers piling on Black man before his death

Surveillance video from the March 6 incident at Virginia's Central State Hospital captures some of the final moments of the life of Otieno, a 28-year-old Black man.

www.nbcnews.com

Just saw this myself, wanted to know what others thought of this. Reminded me of why I hated having police in the hospital rather than techs/hospital security who were actually trained in safe restraint protocols rather than dogpiling on top of a handcuffed guy until they asphyxiate him. VA police were notorious for coming in and pepper spraying patients if there was a behavioral code at the VA.

Also really interesting that the actual hospital techs just seem to be standing around while the police manhandle this guy (and also somewhat begs the question as to why the police are still there to begin with if he's being admitted to the inpatient unit?). I suppose it was probably some intimidation on the hospital techs part but now makes them accessories to murder based on the charges since they let the cops take the lead with the restraint.

---

Members don't see this ad.

 

[wolfvgang22]

Sad story.

My experience with VA police has been the exact opposite. I'll just say I've seen dangerous patients running all over campus and out into the street because of VA police reluctance to act. They are clearly concerned about something like this happening.

 

[mistafab]

This is hard to watch. Truly sad - in a treatment setting.

Restrained to death.

 

[Fan_of_Meehl]

Sad story.

My experience with VA police has been the exact opposite. I'll just say I've seen dangerous patients running all over campus and out into the street because of VA police reluctance to act. They are clearly concerned about something like this happening.

I'd imagine that there's a lot of variability in this. It's anecdotal but the occasions where I've witnessed VA police intervening with upset patients in a VA setting have been ones where the police handled it well...particularly as veterans themselves (many of the police were), they could establish rapport while also letting the upset veteran know what was up in terms of needing to reign it in.

 

[calvnandhobbs68]

Sad story.

My experience with VA police has been the exact opposite. I'll just say I've seen dangerous patients running all over campus and out into the street because of VA police reluctance to act. They are clearly concerned about something like this happening.

I'd imagine that there's a lot of variability in this. It's anecdotal but the occasions where I've witnessed VA police intervening with upset patients in a VA setting have been ones where the police handled it well...particularly as veterans themselves (many of the police were), they could establish rapport while also letting the upset veteran know what was up in terms of needing to reign it in.

There probably is a lot of variability in this in terms of the culture at each VA (kind of like how variable each VA itself is). The response may also be different in terms of de-escalating a patient in the outpatient setting vs showing up for a behavioral code/restraint situation on the inpatient unit.

This is another great example of why safe restraints are important and don’t consist of just holding someone down until they stop moving. It’s also interesting that outside police were allowed to basically take the lead here while they’re physically on the inpatient unit, rather than the techs taking the lead and having the police assist if necessary while they’re there. I figure there’s some level of not wanting to override what the police are doing but now this guy is dead and they’re being charged at the least with accessory to murder…

 

[WisNeuro]

Sad story.

My experience with VA police has been the exact opposite. I'll just say I've seen dangerous patients running all over campus and out into the street because of VA police reluctance to act. They are clearly concerned about something like this happening.

This was my experience as well. The kind of crap that goes on in the VA would get those patients permabanned from most other hospital systems. **** had to really be off the rails for the VA police to intervene with a Vet.

 

[comp1]

Are people in this thread confusing Veterans Affairs police with police in the state of Virginia? If we're talking about Veterans Affairs police, they are hands off unless a staff member or other patient is at immediate risk of harm, per policy.

 

[calvnandhobbs68]

Are people in this thread confusing Veterans Affairs police with police in the state of Virginia? If we're talking about Veterans Affairs police, they are hands off unless a staff member or other patient is at immediate risk of harm, per policy.

Nope, not confusing these two things at all. That was just an aside initially on my part initially from when VA police at our VA had been on the VA inpatient unit. Although this might be a change to policy now and every VA is different, this doesn't always seem to have been the case:

Veterans Affairs Police Are Supposed to “Protect Those Who Served.” They Have a Shocking Record of Brutality and Impunity.

The VA is unable to conduct adequate oversight of its 4,200 police officers. Veterans across the country pay the price — sometimes with their lives.

theintercept.com

 

[wolfvgang22]

Well, we will see how all this plays out in court. There isn't enough money in the world to make me want to be a police officer in the U.S. for a multitude of reasons. I don't think I'd fancy being a behavioral health tech or nurse, either. I barely want to be a doctor anymore, lol.

 

[psycho-matic]

Well, we will see how all this plays out in court. There isn't enough money in the world to make me want to be a police officer in the U.S. for a multitude of reasons. I don't think I'd fancy being a behavioral health tech or nurse, either. I barely want to be a doctor anymore, lol.

Where was the nurse in all of this? They are in charge of the techs and responsible for the safety of the patient.

 

[wolfvgang22]

Where was the nurse in all of this? They are in charge of the techs and responsible for the safety of the patient.

Where was the hospital administrator? Aren't they responsible for ensuring patient safety? Doesn't the buck stop with them?

 

[psycho-matic]

Where was the hospital administrator? Aren't they responsible for ensuring patient safety? Doesn't the buck stop with them?

They aren’t on the floor when these things happen. The nurse is.

 

[psychmd03]

They aren’t on the floor when these things happen. The nurse is.

Does that matter? Just like when a doctors NP kills someone for sure that doc will be on the chopping block even if they weren't there or on the floor or directly invovled.

 

[psycho-matic]

Does that matter? Just like when a doctors NP kills someone for sure that doc will be on the chopping block even if they weren't there or on the floor or directly invovled.

My point is that the nurse should also be charged if they did nothing to intervene when these guys were on top of the patient. Not just the techs.