WAMC (511/3.94) Virginia ORM Female

[NothingGoodGetsAway-]

I need some advice after receiving my score! I took the exam for the first time on 1/26 and got a 511 (129/126/128/128), which is lower than what I was hoping for. I'm trying to gauge my chances at East Coast schools, especially the DMV area. I am Asian, so that might be another factor to consider. Is it worth retaking the exam during my last (and busy) semester of undergrad or do I have a good chance of getting accepted somewhere decent with my score?


- I have a 3.94 overall GPA (likely same sGPA) at a university that is known to be academically challenging


- Biology major and public health minor


- Graduating in 3 years (1 year early)


- Have a paid gap year position lined up as a medical assistant in a pediatrics office after graduating


- I have 2 leadership positions in college clubs


- 2.5 years research experience and soon to be published


- Diverse service experiences


- Several public health/clinical experiences (hospice care and free clinics)


- LORs from Spanish professor (definite), 2 biology professors (need to ask), public health professor (need to ask), and my PI (need to ask, but almost definite)





My very preliminary college list after going through MSAR:

School			Fit or Reach (MCAT)	MD/MPH Offered?
Albert Einstein			Mid - 90th percentile	Yes
Boston University			Reach	Yes
Columbia			Reach	No
Cooper			Fit - 75th percentile	No
Drexel			Fit	Yes
Duke			Reach	No
EVMS			Fit	Yes
Emory			Mid - 90th percentile	Yes - direct
Geisel at Dartmouth			Mid - 90th percentile	No
George Washington			Fit	Yes
Georgetown			Fit - 75th percentile	Yes
Harvard			Reach	Yes
Johns Hopkins			Reach	No
Temple			Fit	Yes
South Carolina			Fit	Yes
Penn State			Fit	Yes
Perelman UPenn			Reach	Yes
SUNY			Fit - 75th percentile	Yes
Brown			Mid - 90th percentile	No
Tufts			Mid - 90th percentile	Yes - direct
UC Davis			Fit	No
UCLA			Fit - 75th percentile	Yes
UConn			Fit - 75th percentile	Yes
UMD			Fit - 75th percentile	Yes - direct
UNC Chapel Hill			Fit - 75th percentile	Yes
UPitt			Reach	Yes
UVA			Reach	Yes
UWashington			Fit	No
VCU			Mid - 90th percentile	Yes
VTech			Fit - 75th percentile	Yes
Yale			Reach	Yes

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[candbgirl]

When are you applying?( before or after your gap year?)
Do you have non clinical volunteering?
Do you have clinical experience?
Do you have shadowing?
How did you develop your list?

 

[NothingGoodGetsAway-]

@candbgirl
- I'm hoping to apply this upcoming cycle during my gap year
- I have non-clinical volunteering (I'm in a service organization in college)
- I have clinical experience in free clinics and a hospital
- I have some shadowing experience at a family practice
- For the included list, which is VERY preliminary, I literally just looked through MSAR for schools in areas I would want to go to and based on MCAT range

 

[Mr.Smile12]

Tell us what advice or help you have from your prehealth advising team.

Experience details would help us. Itemize your hours. What activities have you done off-campus? Out of your comfort zone?

 

[candbgirl]

@candbgirl
- I'm hoping to apply this upcoming cycle during my gap year
- I have non-clinical volunteering (I'm in a service organization in college)
- I have clinical experience in free clinics and a hospital
- I have some shadowing experience at a family practice
- For the included list, which is VERY preliminary, I literally just looked through MSAR for schools in areas I would want to go to and based on MCAT range

Could you please expand on every area? Number of hours, locations, duties, etc?
What you have provided is minimal,at best and makes it very hard to advise you where you stand with your application.

 

[ClashRoyaleKing]

Could you please expand on every area? Number of hours, locations, duties, etc?
What you have provided is minimal,at best and makes it very hard to advise you where you stand with your application.

Number of hours is just the quantity of hours spent at each activity. For example, how many hours did you spend doing "Several public health/clinical experiences (hospice care and free clinics," " 2.5 years research experience," and "Diverse service experiences."

You might have spent anywhere from a 50 to a few thousand hours on each of these. Your time spent in certain activities will influence where you can/should apply.

 

[ClashRoyaleKing]

Your list contains many schools that are unrealistic for your MCAT score or admit very few non-instate students per year without significant ties. Do you want to stay on the East Coast or are you also open to West Coast/Central US? From your list, you could probably apply to:

Einstein
Drexel
Eastern Virginia Medical School
Emory
Dartmouth
George Washington
Georgetown
Temple
Penn State
Tufts
Virginia Common W
Virginia Tech

You could also apply to:
Wayne State
OUWB
Rush
Loyola
RFU
TCU
Creighton
Tulane
MCW
Sidney Kimmel
Wake Forest
Nova Southeastern
Belmont
Alice Walton (when it opens)
Albany
NYMC
Vermont

You might be able to get into any of the above schools. I don't think your chances for T20's are great with your MCAT, if that's what you're shooting for.

 

[NothingGoodGetsAway-]

@Mr.Smile12 @candbgirl
Please keep in mind that I was often taking full credit loads, which allowed me to graduate in 3 years and I will have an additional year of paid full time medical assistant experience after graduation in pediatrics, which is what i'm interested in (I'm not sure how much they'll weigh this in applications)
- nonclinical volunteer hours during school (75 hours) --> helping elders with technology, habitat for humanity restore, activities with neurodivergent kids, etc
- emergency department hospital volunteer during school (20-30 hours) --> tasks that helped the department run smoothly such as restocking linens and IV carts, worked closely with a staff member there (non-clinician)
- free clinic intern during summer (64 hours): helped low-income/uninsured women get mammograms (more administrative focus but interacted with patients, mostly hispanic and non-english speaking so my Spanish was useful)
- free clinic volunteer during summer (122 hours): screener (vitals and history) and administrative volunteer, large number of patients were refugees in addition to being low-income/uninsured
- shadowed at family practice over a winter break (20 hours)
- hospice care volunteer during school (15-20 hours): spend time with patients in hospice/palliative care (the patients I work/have work with are elderly and have Alzheimer's/dementia) *definitely outside of my comfort zone
- research (hard to say exactly how many hours but 5-8 hours per week for 2 fall and 3 spring semesters)

 

[Mr.Smile12]

Please keep in mind that I was often taking full credit loads, which allowed me to graduate in 3 years and I will have an additional year of paid full time medical assistant experience after graduation in pediatrics, which is what i'm interested in (I'm not sure how much they'll weight this in applications)

I can tell you that we don't factor you had 3 years of undergrad. Future or projected hours won't matter. Your application must stand besides those with gaps or built up their profile for years.

That said, you are under par with your clinical experience and maybe nonclinical service, but you are on the right track. You need 50 hours of shadowing, and up to 100 hours of other clinical experience to avoid getting screened out at most schools. I'll count your free clinic internships. The other 75 hours sounds like random involvement. You should have 150 total to avoid getting screened out (which you appear to have). Going for now desirable schools requires more hours in the service category (not fundraising nor tutoring/teaching)... at least 250. Public health is helpful, but I need to know what your mission is as a physician.

 

[Faha]

You should accumulate another 30 hours of physician shadowing before you apply as well as another 100+ hours of non clinical volunteering. You have several state public schools on your list that admit few non residents with your MCAT and no connection to the state (UC Davis only admits 2 or 3 non residents per year) and also several unrealistic schools. I suggest these schools with your stats:
Virginia Commonwealth
Eastern Virginia
Virginia Tech
UVA
West Virginia
George Washington
Wake Forest
Belmont
NOVA MD
Alice Walton (when it opens)
TCU
Rosalind Franklin
Medical College Wisconsin
Oakland Beaumont
Penn State
Drexel
Temple
Jefferson
Hackensack
Albany
New York Medical College
Vermont
Quinnipiac

 

[candbgirl]

@Mr.Smile12 @candbgirl
Please keep in mind that I was often taking full credit loads, which allowed me to graduate in 3 years and I will have an additional year of paid full time medical assistant experience after graduation in pediatrics, which is what i'm interested in (I'm not sure how much they'll weigh this in applications)
- nonclinical volunteer hours during school (75 hours) --> helping elders with technology, habitat for humanity restore, activities with neurodivergent kids, etc
- emergency department hospital volunteer during school (20-30 hours) --> tasks that helped the department run smoothly such as restocking linens and IV carts, worked closely with a staff member there (non-clinician)
- free clinic intern during summer (64 hours): helped low-income/uninsured women get mammograms (more administrative focus but interacted with patients, mostly hispanic and non-english speaking so my Spanish was useful)
- free clinic volunteer during summer (122 hours): screener (vitals and history) and administrative volunteer, large number of patients were refugees in addition to being low-income/uninsured
- shadowed at family practice over a winter break (20 hours)
- hospice care volunteer during school (15-20 hours): spend time with patients in hospice/palliative care (the patients I work/have work with are elderly and have Alzheimer's/dementia) *definitely outside of my comfort zone
- research (hard to say exactly how many hours but 5-8 hours per week for 2 fall and 3 spring semesters)

ADCOMS really don’t care how long it took you to graduate, be it 3 years or 6+ years. They do care about the content of your total application. Just because you chose/decided to graduate in three years does not exempt you from having the expected ECs and service activities that other applicants have. And I’m not sure what you mean by “Please keep in mind that I was often taking full credit loads,” but I’m pretty sure most of us took full credit loads when we were in undergrad, so…

 

[Mr.Smile12]

@Mr.Smile12 @candbgirl
Please keep in mind that I was often taking full credit loads, which allowed me to graduate in 3 years and I will have an additional year of paid full time medical assistant experience after graduation in pediatrics, which is what i'm interested in (I'm not sure how much they'll weigh this in applications)
- nonclinical volunteer hours during school (75 hours) --> helping elders with technology, habitat for humanity restore, activities with neurodivergent kids, etc
- emergency department hospital volunteer during school (20-30 hours) --> tasks that helped the department run smoothly such as restocking linens and IV carts, worked closely with a staff member there (non-clinician)
- free clinic intern during summer (64 hours): helped low-income/uninsured women get mammograms (more administrative focus but interacted with patients, mostly hispanic and non-english speaking so my Spanish was useful)
- free clinic volunteer during summer (122 hours): screener (vitals and history) and administrative volunteer, large number of patients were refugees in addition to being low-income/uninsured
- shadowed at family practice over a winter break (20 hours)
- hospice care volunteer during school (15-20 hours): spend time with patients in hospice/palliative care (the patients I work/have work with are elderly and have Alzheimer's/dementia) *definitely outside of my comfort zone
- research (hard to say exactly how many hours but 5-8 hours per week for 2 fall and 3 spring semesters)

Just saying you can try to apply during your gap year. Your metrics should warrant attention, especially with your in-state options. You can probably add other schools within the region who have a record of taking OOS applicants (mostly the private schools, see Faha's and Clash's lists).

Your application will be stronger after your gap year as long as you continue activities and show that you don't need to be a college student to do community service. I admit, activities with fewer than 50 hours (except shadowing) receive very little weight or attention with me. Your passion comes from activities where you spend the most time. If you rack up 1000+ hours as an MA (plus hospice) this gap year, this will help solidify your strong interest in working in healthcare.

Focus on one or two community service non-clinic or clinic-adjacent activities (if you are doing hospice) to show your service orientation (again, not reliant on you being a college student): you have many choices and a head start in different opportunities (H4H Restore, elders with technology, refugee assistance). Given your time, where do you find the greatest personal fulfillment helping others, and how does that carry forward with you as a future physician?

So it sounds like I'm contradicting myself a bit, but I just want to posit for you: your application is strong on metrics but not so strong when it comes to showing your purpose as a physician. Taking a year off away from campus will help you not spend twice the amount of money on applications, and it could give you a needed mental break where you find your purpose as a physician.

 

[NothingGoodGetsAway-]

ADCOMS really don’t care how long it took you to graduate, be it 3 years or 6+ years. They do care about the content of your total application. Just because you chose/decided to graduate in three years does not exempt you from having the expected ECs and service activities that other applicants have. And I’m not sure what you mean by “Please keep in mind that I was often taking full credit loads,” but I’m pretty sure most of us took full credit loads when we were in undergrad, so…

Thank you for your incredibly constructive advice. I did not mean to offend you by saying I am graduating early or suggest that everyone else here did not work hard, just that I perhaps did not have as much time for clinical and other experiences because of my decision to fit all of my courses into 3 years instead of 4 and focus on grades. That is why I am here asking the community if I have a good chance or not based on the experiences I do have thus far, so I can decide what my next steps are.

 

[NothingGoodGetsAway-]

Just saying you can try to apply during your gap year. Your metrics should warrant attention, especially with your in-state options. You can probably add other schools within the region who have a record of taking OOS applicants (mostly the private schools, see Faha's and Clash's lists).

Your application will be stronger after your gap year as long as you continue activities and show that you don't need to be a college student to do community service. I admit, activities with fewer than 50 hours (except shadowing) receive very little weight or attention with me. Your passion comes from activities where you spend the most time. If you rack up 1000+ hours as an MA (plus hospice) this gap year, this will help solidify your strong interest in working in healthcare.

Focus on one or two community service non-clinic or clinic-adjacent activities (if you are doing hospice) to show your service orientation (again, not reliant on you being a college student): you have many choices and a head start in different opportunities (H4H Restore, elders with technology, refugee assistance). Given your time, where do you find the greatest personal fulfillment helping others, and how does that carry forward with you as a future physician?

So it sounds like I'm contradicting myself a bit, but I just want to posit for you: your application is strong on metrics but not so strong when it comes to showing your purpose as a physician. Taking a year off away from campus will help you not spend twice the amount of money on applications, and it could give you a needed mental break where you find your purpose as a physician.

Thank you, your advice has been very informative and I will definitely be taking it into consideration moving forward!

 

[Mr.Smile12]

Thank you for your incredibly constructive advice. I did not mean to offend you by saying I am graduating early or suggest that everyone else here did not work hard, just that I perhaps did not have as much time for clinical and other experiences because of my decision to fit all of my courses into 3 years instead of 4 and focus on grades. That is why I am here asking the community if I have a good chance or not based on the experiences I do have thus far, so I can decide what my next steps are.

Can I ask what your prehealth advising team thinks?

 

[candbgirl]

Thank you for your incredibly constructive advice. I did not mean to offend you by saying I am graduating early or suggest that everyone else here did not work hard, just that I perhaps did not have as much time for clinical and other experiences because of my decision to fit all of my courses into 3 years instead of 4 and focus on grades. That is why I am here asking the community if I have a good chance or not based on the experiences I do have thus far, so I can decide what my next steps are.

Sarcasm not with standing, you certainly didn’t offend me. I don’t really care what you do or don’t do with your application . You asked for advice . I gave some. You can take it, think about it or completely ignore it. But understand , med schools don’t care how long it took you to get through college. They do care how prepared you are for achieving success in medical school not only academically but experience and maturity wise too. Each year less than 40% of all applicants are accepted at any medical school and of this number about half are accepted at one school. That means that nearly 60% of all applicants are outright rejected, including applicants with stellar applications. Every medical school has thousands of applicants. If one applicant doesn’t meet what they are looking for they move on to the next applicant.
Only you know if your application is the very best it can be, good enough to be accepted.
Good luck.

 

[premed2022hopeful]

I’ve had a solid application cycle this year as a VA applicant (9 interviews) with similar metrics (slightly higher mcat) and maybe just a bit more hours. Here’s my advice:

Network with EVMS and VCU ahead of time. Get your name in their pool of applicants. This is your BEST chance of being accepted. Apply to UVA and VTECH (can’t hurt your instate) but recognize that they are low yield options based on your current stats and experiences.

Find a narrative. Do you like community service? Research? Etc. You have an entire gap year now… tailor your experiences to that narrative. Perhaps working with children with disabilities would be a good fit for you.

You’re a year ahead of the curve timeline wise but it seems to have come at the expense of your experiences. Are your ready to apply? One year is nothing to wait. Don’t listen to people who talk about a future year of salary. You are becoming a doctor not a banker…. everyone wants to get paid but you have to recognize that medicine isn’t the best route for doing so in the short to medium term. Can you develop a better narrative over a year and then leverage that for your primary and secondary essays? When you look at prompts for last years secondaries do you have meaningful things to say? The hours don’t matter so much as what you can take away from them. Do you feel like you have good answers now? It’s incredible to sit for an interview and have someone say your essays moved them

Your initial school list is very bad. Sorry. Simply looking at MSAR and seeing where your stats fit will not carry you. Your current application is not a suited for T-30 schools (basically your entire list). Graduating in the 3 years is not nearly as impressive or relevant as having a higher mcat score and more experiences that you can speak to. There are many other candidates who pursued these activities instead and now have comparatively strong applications.

You are also likely not competitive for the DMV schools. While your stats are below average for Asian matriculants, I’m basing this more on the strong service mission of Georgetown, policy focus of GW, and service to the underserved at Howard. I think the activities you have participated with in the past are great choices but you don’t have enough hours to seriously make these claims.

Everyone in the DMV wants to be the next Harvard bound doctor. My advice is to focus on what you actually want and not what other people think of you. Either raise your application to the level of the tier of school you want to apply to by investing a year in service oriented activities and improving your MCAT to the 516+ range or be happy with the hard work you already put in and apply to schools that you are better suited for. We have exceptional state schools that your stats are well suited for! When you have 50% less debt you will thank yourself in the future!

Also take a deep breathe, try to remember how far you’ve come (this is a marathon not a sprint) and shoot for your goals.

Hope this helps future doctor

 

[premed2022hopeful]

Edit: meant to say many more hours in the first paragraph

 

[Mr.Smile12]

^^^ What @premed2022hopeful said. I would have gotten around to saying the same things once I had more information.