MD WAMC (520, 3.99, School List Provided)

[scienceguy95]

[deleted]

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[Goro]

“This not the application of a person who dearly wants to be a physician. It is the application of someone who wants to be a doctor as long as it is convenient,”

From the wise LizzyM”: I am always reminded of a certain frequent poster of a few years ago. He was adamant about not volunteering as he did not want to give his services for free and he was busy and helping others was inconvenient. He matriculated to a medical school and lasted less than one year. He's now in school to become an accountant.

Your lack of ECs will be lethal. My own student interviewers would eat you alive.

What are you going to say when asked how you know you are suited for a life of caring for the sick and suffering? “That you just know”? Imagine how that will go over!

Here's the deal: You need to show AdComs that you know what you're getting into, and show off your altruistic, humanistic side. We need to know that you're going to like being around sick or injured people for the next 40 years.

Here's another way of looking at it: would you buy a new car without test driving it? Buy a new suit or dress without trying it on??

We're also not looking for merely for good medical students, we're looking for people who will make good doctors, and 4.0 GPA robots are a dime-a-dozen.

I've seen plenty of posts here from high GPA/high MCAT candidates who were rejected because they had little patient contact experience.

Not all volunteering needs to be in a hospital. Think hospice, Planned Parenthood, nursing homes, rehab facilities, crisis hotlines, camps for sick children, or clinics.

Some types of volunteer activities are more appealing than others. Volunteering in a nice suburban hospital is all very well and good and all, but doesn't show that you're willing to dig in and get your hands dirty in the same way that working with the developmentally disabled (or homeless, the dying, or Alzheimers or mentally ill or elderly or ESL or domestic, rural impoverished) does. The uncomfortable situations are the ones that really demonstrate your altruism and get you 'brownie points'. Plus, they frankly teach you more -- they develop your compassion and humanity in ways comfortable situations can't.

Service need not be "unique". If you can alleviate suffering in your community through service to the poor, homeless, illiterate, fatherless, etc, you are meeting an otherwise unmet need and learning more about the lives of the people (or types of people) who will someday be your patients. Check out your local houses of worship for volunteer opportunities. The key thing is service to others less fortunate than you. And get off campus and out of your comfort zone!

Examples include: Habitat for Humanity, Ronald McDonald House, Humane Society, crisis hotlines, soup kitchen, food pantry, homeless or women’s shelter, after-school tutoring for students or coaching a sport in a poor school district, teaching ESL to adults at a community center, Big Brothers/Big Sisters, or Meals on Wheels.

 

[scienceguy95]

“This not the application of a person who dearly wants to be a physician. It is the application of someone who wants to be a doctor as long as it is convenient,”

From the wise LizzyM”: I am always reminded of a certain frequent poster of a few years ago. He was adamant about not volunteering as he did not want to give his services for free and he was busy and helping others was inconvenient. He matriculated to a medical school and lasted less than one year. He's now in school to become an accountant.

Your lack of ECs will be lethal. My own student interviewers would eat you alive.

What are you going to say when asked how you know you are suited for a life of caring for the sick and suffering? “That you just know”? Imagine how that will go over!

Here's the deal: You need to show AdComs that you know what you're getting into, and show off your altruistic, humanistic side. We need to know that you're going to like being around sick or injured people for the next 40 years.

Here's another way of looking at it: would you buy a new car without test driving it? Buy a new suit or dress without trying it on??

We're also not looking for merely for good medical students, we're looking for people who will make good doctors, and 4.0 GPA robots are a dime-a-dozen.

I've seen plenty of posts here from high GPA/high MCAT candidates who were rejected because they had little patient contact experience.

Not all volunteering needs to be in a hospital. Think hospice, Planned Parenthood, nursing homes, rehab facilities, crisis hotlines, camps for sick children, or clinics.

Some types of volunteer activities are more appealing than others. Volunteering in a nice suburban hospital is all very well and good and all, but doesn't show that you're willing to dig in and get your hands dirty in the same way that working with the developmentally disabled (or homeless, the dying, or Alzheimers or mentally ill or elderly or ESL or domestic, rural impoverished) does. The uncomfortable situations are the ones that really demonstrate your altruism and get you 'brownie points'. Plus, they frankly teach you more -- they develop your compassion and humanity in ways comfortable situations can't.

Service need not be "unique". If you can alleviate suffering in your community through service to the poor, homeless, illiterate, fatherless, etc, you are meeting an otherwise unmet need and learning more about the lives of the people (or types of people) who will someday be your patients. Check out your local houses of worship for volunteer opportunities. The key thing is service to others less fortunate than you. And get off campus and out of your comfort zone!

Examples include: Habitat for Humanity, Ronald McDonald House, Humane Society, crisis hotlines, soup kitchen, food pantry, homeless or women’s shelter, after-school tutoring for students or coaching a sport in a poor school district, teaching ESL to adults at a community center, Big Brothers/Big Sisters, or Meals on Wheels.

Thanks for your honest appraisal Goro. I acknowledge my clinical and volunteering experiences are on the low side. I don't want to make any excuses for this weakness; my only contention is that I don't believe I have a complete lack of EC's. I have been engaged in rewarding and meaningful research and teaching/communication experiences that have shaped my desire to pursue medicine. As I understand it, most applicants have a set of strengths and weaknesses outside of stats: some have incredible life stories, others have memorable service experiences, and yet others show dedication to research. Assuming I don't have zero clinical/volunteering experience, would an emphasis on research and communication really be lethal?

 

[Goro]

Yes

Thanks for your honest appraisal Goro. I acknowledge my clinical and volunteering experiences are on the low side. I don't want to make any excuses for this weakness; my only contention is that I don't believe I have a complete lack of EC's. I have been engaged in rewarding and meaningful research and teaching/communication experiences that have shaped my desire to pursue medicine. As I understand it, most applicants have a set of strengths and weaknesses outside of stats: some have incredible life stories, others have memorable service experiences, and yet others show dedication to research. Assuming I don't have zero clinical/volunteering experience, would an emphasis on research and communication really be lethal?

 

[Goro]

You're competing with people who have high hundreds if not 1000s of hour of volunteering. You wanna aim high? You need to show you're exceptional, not just another lab rat.

 

[scienceguy95]

You're competing with people who have high hundreds if not 1000s of hour of volunteering. You wanna aim high? You need to show you're exceptional, not just another lab rat.

Thanks for following up. I don't really want to get into an argument here, but I am little curious how having hundreds of hours of volunteering experience makes an applicant any more exceptional than having hundreds of hours of research experience, assuming both activities are run-of-the-mill (e.g., stocking supplies in the ER for volunteering or helping with a small research project over the summer). I agree with your emphasis on unique experiences, but I feel as though my research/teaching ECs have been unique and meaningful. Why do only unique clinical/volunteering experiences matter? Why can't an applicant be successful with run-of-the-mill service/clinical experiences and unique research/teaching experiences?

I'm also guessing that each admissions committee has a unique set of attributes they value most in applicants based on the history and mission of the institution. From your characterization of high-stats research-focused applicants ("dime-a-dozen," "lab rat") I'm guessing you (and maybe by extension your admissions committee) value service much more than teaching and research? If this is the case, maybe you could suggest schools whose mission/values align strongly with my own (if they aren't on my list).

Assuming my stats and research/teaching ECs land me interviews (which seems likely from what I have read) and I can convincingly articulate how my experiences have led me to pursue medicine at those interviews, I don't see how my chances are slim. Maybe my assumptions are mistaken? Again, I am basing this off what I have read on this site and with my conversations with people familiar with the process.

 

[Toutie]

You have 6 months before you apply. Why not CYA and beef up the volunteer hours a bit during that time? Surely you can find 5-10 hours a week to get some clinical and non-clinical volunteering in. In 6 months you could easily have a hundred or two of each.

 

[ciestar]

Thanks for following up. I don't really want to get into an argument here, but I am little curious how having hundreds of hours of volunteering experience makes an applicant any more exceptional than having hundreds of hours of research experience, assuming both activities are run-of-the-mill (e.g., stocking supplies in the ER for volunteering or helping with a small research project over the summer). I agree with your emphasis on unique experiences, but I feel as though my research/teaching ECs have been unique and meaningful. Why do only unique clinical/volunteering experiences matter? Why can't an applicant be successful with run-of-the-mill service/clinical experiences and unique research/teaching experiences?

I'm also guessing that each admissions committee has a unique set of attributes they value most in applicants based on the history and mission of the institution. From your characterization of high-stats research-focused applicants ("dime-a-dozen," "lab rat") I'm guessing you (and maybe by extension your admissions committee) value service much more than teaching and research? If this is the case, maybe you could suggest schools whose mission/values align strongly with my own (if they aren't on my list).

Assuming my stats and research/teaching ECs land me interviews (which seems likely from what I have read) and I can convincingly articulate how my experiences have led me to pursue medicine at those interviews, I don't see how my chances are slim. Maybe my assumptions are mistaken? Again, I am basing this off what I have read on this site and with my conversations with people familiar with the process.

Why? Because you're not applying to medical school to work in a lab. That's why you need clinical experiences and ALL schools value this. You can't cherry pick. The top schools do indeed value research and high stats, but you have to have clinical experiences to tie it altogether. You need more clinical hours and you have time to do it, so do it. As to answer another one of your assumptions, most schools seem to value service more than research. That's why thousands of applicants successfully get into school every year with no research at all.

 

[scienceguy95]

Why? Because you're not applying to medical school to work in a lab. That's why you need clinical experiences and ALL schools value this. You can't cherry pick. The top schools do indeed value research and high stats, but you have to have clinical experiences to tie it altogether. You need more clinical hours and you have time to do it, so do it. As to answer another one of your assumptions, most schools seem to value service more than research. That's why thousands of applicants successfully get into school every year with no research at all.

Don't get me wrong: I absolutely understand why service/clinical exposure is important. Although I only volunteered for 50 hours, that opportunity was very rewarding. I had a great time interacting with the patients and residents; the only reason I stopped is because I moved. I am trying my best to secure a clinical volunteering opportunity where I am now, but realistically I won't be able to get more than 40-50 hours (and that's being optimistic since I work full-time). I understand my clinical exposure isn't ideal, but I am honestly a bit surprised at the reaction here. It almost seems like I have zero clinical exposure and no compelling ECs whatsoever. I'm not looking for confirmation that I'll do great in the cycle, but the doom and gloom doesn't seem warranted either.

 

[shopsteward]

Success rates for ORM candidates with your stats level out at 90%. The betting is that the 10% who don't make it are the ones with inadequate shadowing, inadequate clinical experience and inadequate volunteering, or the ones who come across poorly in trying to justify their choices. Like you.

You are lucky: you have six months in which to make sorting this out your priority, and it's much easier than sorting out a low GPA or MCAT. Easier, that is, if you are the sort of person who is suited to becoming a doctor. The more you protest, the less likely it seems that you are that sort of person.

 

[scienceguy95]

Success rates for ORM candidates with your stats level out at 90%. The betting is that the 10% who don't make it are the ones with inadequate shadowing, inadequate clinical experience and inadequate volunteering, or the ones who come across poorly in trying to justify their choices. Like you.

You are lucky: you have six months in which to make sorting this out your priority, and it's much easier than sorting out a low GPA or MCAT. Easier, that is, if you are the sort of person who is suited to becoming a doctor. The more you protest, the less likely it seems that you are that sort of person.

Look, I came here looking for an honest appraisal of my chances. The consensus so far seems to be that my admittedly lackluster clinical exposure has doomed me to failure despite my otherwise strong stats and ECs, which I find hard to believe. I apologize for whatever aspect of my original post or subsequent replies possessed you to question my suitability for medicine. I certainly did not wish invite hostility.

 

[futuremdforme]

Are you still volunteering at the nursing home? If not, you should really pick that up again, and keep it up all through next year throughout the cycle.

 

[Toutie]

You posted your stats last July. People told you then you to get some clinical and non-clinical. All you have done in the last 6 months is get 20-30 hrs of shadowing.

HOW do you not have an extra 5-10 hours a week to spare?

You may very well garner an acceptance without any additional clinical/non-clinical volunteering and shadowing. BUT the lack of them may also come back and bite you in the ass. WHY would you risk the possibility of not being accepted when it's such an easy thing to fix and you have plenty of time to fix it.

Your call. If you feel your application is strong enough on it's own, then go for it.

 

[TSteezy]

Don't get me wrong: I absolutely understand why service/clinical exposure is important. Although I only volunteered for 50 hours, that opportunity was very rewarding. I had a great time interacting with the patients and residents; the only reason I stopped is because I moved. I am trying my best to secure a clinical volunteering opportunity where I am now, but realistically I won't be able to get more than 40-50 hours (and that's being optimistic since I work full-time). I understand my clinical exposure isn't ideal, but I am honestly a bit surprised at the reaction here. It almost seems like I have zero clinical exposure and no compelling ECs whatsoever. I'm not looking for confirmation that I'll do great in the cycle, but the doom and gloom doesn't seem warranted either.

I understand the full-time work grind. Your stats are phenomenal. Your research experience is top-notch. Don't let something as simple as volunteering 5-10 hours/wk ruin your application. The "doom and gloom" here is not that you won't get accepted -- it's that you won't get accepted at the top/high tier schools that your stats warrant. AMCAS allows you to estimate hours on your app prior to matriculation -- I recommend you secure a solid service position and commit 5 hours a week (and include your estimated hours on AMCAS) until you matriculate.

 

[scienceguy95]

Thanks for the feedback everyone. I have been actively searching for a volunteer opportunity recently; I should be able to get 3-4 hours per week for at least 3-4 months before the cycle begins. I planned on doing this even before posting here, so I do understand its importance. My question is what my chances look like given the current state of my application (since the only difference will be 40-50 hours of additional volunteering at most—nothing groundbreaking).

 

[shopsteward]

Look, I came here looking for an honest appraisal of my chances. The consensus so far seems to be that my admittedly lackluster clinical exposure has doomed me to failure despite my otherwise strong stats and ECs, which I find hard to believe. I apologize for whatever aspect of my original post or subsequent replies possessed you to question my suitability for medicine. I certainly did not wish invite hostility.

Well, I told you that you had a 90% chance of acceptance and were lucky enough to be able to fix the other 10% before you apply. To me, that seems like an accurate appraisal of your chances, based on the stats, and honest advice about what to do. I did then imply that you would be demonstrating that you might not be suitable for medicine if you didn't put the fix in. But if you put the fix in, then the "unsuitability" issue does not arise, does it? Your impression of hostility only arises through your apparent unwillingness to accept what are received truths around here.

 

[Mcatbot]

Thanks for the feedback everyone. I have been actively searching for a volunteer opportunity recently; I should be able to get 3-4 hours per week for at least 3-4 months before the cycle begins. I planned on doing this even before posting here, so I do understand its importance. My question is what my chances look like given the current state of my application (since the only difference will be 40-50 hours of additional volunteering at most—nothing groundbreaking).

Bump up your clinical hours to 150 and shadowing hours to ~50, and assuming that you have average interview skills, you'll be fine as far as getting into your state school. You might also get some love from mid tier. I doubt you will have much luck with top 20 though. You can go to mdapps and look at the profiles of people who got into top 20, and see what their credentials are.

 

[WedgeDawg]

List is good. Try to get some more active clinical exposure before the application. Volunteer like 5 hours/weekend at a nursing home or ED or something.

sorry if this has already been addressed - only read the first post

 

[scienceguy95]

List is good. Try to get some more active clinical exposure before the application. Volunteer like 5 hours/weekend at a nursing home or ED or something.

sorry if this has already been addressed - only read the first post

Thanks WedgeDawg. Your resources have been very helpful!

 

[scienceguy95]

Thanks for the feedback everyone. I have deleted my original post to help protect my anonymity. The consensus appears to be to get more clinical exposure before the application begins, which I will make a top priority moving forward. Can only hope for the best.