WAMC and should I apply this cycle?

[cafenoir]

I’m currently a junior, major in Biology, at the local university and plan to apply this year. Since I just received my MCAT score today, I want to ask the experts here to see whether I should apply this cycle or take a gap year to build stronger app. Up to this point, I have been focusing with grades and prepping for MCAT, resulting in weak clinical & non-clinical experiences.

1. cGPA/sGPA: 4.0

2. MCAT: 524 (131/131/130/132)

3. State: Maryland

4. ORM (Asian)

5. Undergraduate: state flagship university

6. Clinical experiences: Paid MA at a local doctor office (currently 100+ hrs and projected to be around 250 hrs when apply)

7. Non-Clinical volunteers: Food pantry & food recovery network volunteer (currently 150 hrs)

8. Shadowing experiences: Neurologist and allergist for total of 100 hrs + 80 hrs virtual shadow at University of Maryland Medical Center (UMMC)

9. Research: about 500 hrs (during summer + 1 semester ) for biology lab in school

10. Extra ECs: about 24 hrs volunteer at HIV screening

11. Relevant honors or awards: Honor College and Dean Lists

12. Hobbies: Played piano and violin as hobbies


What are my chances at all if I apply this cycle ? Please provide a list of schools I should apply, if you think I have any chances.

Thank you in advance.

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[Faha]

Do not include the virtual shadowing. Do you have any research experience or other ECs ?

 

[candbgirl]

You have a perfect GPA and a wonderful MCAT score but that’s about it. Your ECs seem very lack luster and you barely meet the basic expectations. What else did you do in school? What other activities did you take part in? It would be a shame to apply with great stats but be rejected because of the lack of other activities? You probably have additional activities. Think about it. A gap year or two might be a good idea in your case. Where did you see yourself in medicine? Do you need research to get there? Are you thinking academic medicine or rural medicine?

 

[Mr.Smile12]

I concur with the previous advice. You will be evaluated on more than your stats, but you also will be expected to have more impactful accomplishments if you intend to apply to brand name schools.

You spent 100 hours on shadowing 2 specialties. That way too many hours for too few perspectives. You don't even have primary care covered. Meanwhile you have the same number of clinical experience hours as an MA to date.

Then you only have the bare minimum 150 hours of community service activities.

No research???

There must be more. This looks like someone who only devoted their entire undergraduate time studying and no involvement making a difference on campus or with others. There is a tendency to staying safely in their comfort zone, and thus no preparation for the real challenges facing patients or caregivers.

 

[cafenoir]

You have a perfect GPA and a wonderful MCAT score but that’s about it. Your ECs seem very lack luster and you barely meet the basic expectations. What else did you do in school? What other activities did you take part in? It would be a shame to apply with great stats but be rejected because of the lack of other activities? You probably have additional activities. Think about it. A gap year or two might be a good idea in your case. Where did you see yourself in medicine? Do you need research to get there? Are you thinking academic medicine or rural medicine?

Do not include the virtual shadowing. Do you have any research experience or other ECs ?

I updated the list to include research and other ECs. Thanks for your input

 

[cafenoir]

I concur with the previous advice. You will be evaluated on more than your stats, but you also will be expected to have more impactful accomplishments if you intend to apply to brand name schools.

You spent 100 hours on shadowing 2 specialties. That way too many hours for too few perspectives. You don't even have primary care covered. Meanwhile you have the same number of clinical experience hours as an MA to date.

Then you only have the bare minimum 150 hours of community service activities.

No research???

There must be more. This looks like someone who only devoted their entire undergraduate time studying and no involvement making a difference on campus or with others. There is a tendency to staying safely in their comfort zone, and thus no preparation for the real challenges facing patients or caregivers.

@Mr.Smile12,
I had about 500 hours of research as an intern for biology lab and 24 hours volunteers to help with HIV screening events. I plan to get a few additional hours for non-clinical volunteer during spring break. Anything else I should look for to help with my app in this cycle?

 

[cafenoir]

Thank you for the advices. I updated my list to include the research and extra ECs.

 

[Faha]

I suggest these schools with your stats:
Maryland
West Virginia
U Virginia
Duke
USF Morsani
Miami
Vanderbilt
Washington University (in St. Louis-they like applicants with high MCAT scores)
Northwestern
Western Michigan
U Michigan
Case Western
Ohio State
Cincinnati
Pittsburgh
Jefferson
UPenn
Johns Hopkins
Hofstra
Einstein
Mount Sinai
NYU
Cornell
Rochester
Brown
Yale
Boston University
Tufts
UMass
Kaiser
UCSF
Mayo

 

[Mr.Smile12]

@Mr.Smile12,
I had about 500 hours of research as an intern for biology lab and 24 hours volunteers to help with HIV screening events. I plan to get a few additional hours for non-clinical volunteer during spring break. Anything else I should look for to help with my app in this cycle?

Do more food pantry/food security work. Get it up to at least 250 hours before applying to be at least on par with your peers. If getting into a top brand school is a priority, consider taking a gap year to do Peace Corps or Americorps or a prestigious scholarship (Rhodes, Churchill, Gates, etc.). Show us you can stretch beyond your comfort zone for an extended period of time in communion with underresourced communities (especially in the US), and you will get the attention you want from brand-name schools. We want to know that the schools you graduate from will miss you and that you left behind an indelible impression and campus impact.

 

[cafenoir]

You have a perfect GPA and a wonderful MCAT score but that’s about it. Your ECs seem very lack luster and you barely meet the basic expectations. What else did you do in school? What other activities did you take part in? It would be a shame to apply with great stats but be rejected because of the lack of other activities? You probably have additional activities. Think about it. A gap year or two might be a good idea in your case. Where did you see yourself in medicine? Do you need research to get there? Are you thinking academic medicine or rural medicine?

Thank you very much for your advices. I updated my list to include research and other ECs. The truth is I didn't know much about other requirements beside academic, during my first 2 years and just focusing on research and shadowing. Also, I was thinking about a gap to build up stronger application. However, part of me wanted to try my luck this year to see if I can get in if I can. As for academic or rural medicine, I prefer clinical medicine practicing in the city and haven't thought about rural medicine, since I'm fairly new in the process.

 

[cafenoir]

Do more food pantry/food security work. Get it up to at least 250 hours before applying to be at least on par with your peers. If getting into a top brand school is a priority, consider taking a gap year to do Peace Corps or Americorps or a prestigious scholarship (Rhodes, Churchill, Gates, etc.). Show us you can stretch beyond your comfort zone for an extended period of time in communion with underresourced communities (especially in the US), and you will get the attention you want from brand-name schools. We want to know that the schools you graduate from will miss you and that you left behind an indelible impression and campus impact.

Thank you for the great advices.

 

[cafenoir]

I suggest these schools with your stats:
Maryland
West Virginia
U Virginia
Duke
USF Morsani
Miami
Vanderbilt
Washington University (in St. Louis-they like applicants with high MCAT scores)
Northwestern
Western Michigan
U Michigan
Case Western
Ohio State
Cincinnati
Pittsburgh
Jefferson
UPenn
Johns Hopkins
Hofstra
Einstein
Mount Sinai
NYU
Cornell
Rochester
Brown
Yale
Boston University
Tufts
UMass
Kaiser
UCSF
Mayo

Thank you very much for the school list. For learning purpose, how do students compile the list ? MSAR ? LizzyM ? what are the the prereqs? GPA? MCAT ? location ? I was trying out the LizzyM score and got a list, which didn't include Maryland, where I hope that I can attend.

Another question, any reason why I shouldn't list virtual shadow experience ? It was a 2 week program provided by University of Maryland Medical Center. I was able to learn more about medicine by shadowing several specialties, including primary care. There were also my sessions, where I was able to talk to doctors and med students.

 

[Faha]

Thank you very much for the list. For learning purpose, how do students compile the list ? MSAR ? LizzyM ? what are the the prereqs? GPA? MCAT ? location ? I was trying out the LizzyM score and got a list, which didn't include Maryland, where I hope that I can attend.

Another question, any reason why I shouldn't list virtual shadow experience ? It was a 2 week program provided by University of Maryland Medical Center. I was able to learn more about medicine by shadowing several specialties, including primary care. There were also my sessions, where I was able to talk to doctors and med students.

Virtual shadowing has very little value. What you describe is not really clinical where you are in person with patients and their doctors. The list of schools is based on MCAT, GPA, ECs and state of residence. No lower tier schools since they will "yield protect" with your stats.

 

[Mr.Smile12]

Thank you very much for the school list. For learning purpose, how do students compile the list ? MSAR ? LizzyM ? what are the the prereqs? GPA? MCAT ? location ? I was trying out the LizzyM score and got a list, which didn't include Maryland, where I hope that I can attend.

Another question, any reason why I shouldn't list virtual shadow experience ? It was a 2 week program provided by University of Maryland Medical Center. I was able to learn more about medicine by shadowing several specialties, including primary care. There were also my sessions, where I was able to talk to doctors and med students.

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[cafenoir]

Virtual shadowing has very little value. What you describe is not really clinical where you are in person with patients and their doctors. The list of schools is based on MCAT, GPA, ECs and state of residence. No lower tier schools since they will "yield protect" with your stats.

The school list has several reach schools, and I'm worry that they don't even look at my app. As for the lower tiers schools, do you think I have any chances with VCU, Georgetown, George Washington and Temple? I'm would like to be able to attend school near home if possible.

 

[Faha]

The school list has several reach schools, and I'm worry that they don't even look at my app. As for the lower tiers schools, do you think I have any chances with VCU, Georgetown, George Washington and Temple? I'm would like to be able to attend school near home if possible.

There are no reach schools for an applicant with a GPA of 4.0 and a MCAT of 524. Georgetown is looking for applicants with far more clinical and non clinical hours than you have. You could try George Washington, Temple and VCU but they may "yield protect" with your stats.

 

[cafenoir]

Thanks to both @Faha and @HappyRabbit with my current list of schools below:

State	School Name	Apply ?
FL	USF Health Morsani College of Medicine	Yes
IL	Northwestern University Feinberg School of Medicine	Yes
MD	The Johns Hopkins University School of Medicine	Yes
MD	University of Maryland School of Medicine	Yes
MI	University of Michigan Medical School	Yes
MI	Western Michigan University Homer Stryker M.D. School of Medicine	Yes
MN	Mayo Clinic Alix School of Medicine	Yes
MO	Washington University in St. Louis School of Medicine	Yes
NC	Duke University School of Medicine	Yes
NY	Albert Einstein College of Medicine	Yes
NY	Donald and Barbara Zucker School of Medicine at Hofstra/Northwell	Yes
NY	Icahn School of Medicine at Mount Sinai	Yes
NY	NYU Grossman School of Medicine	Yes
OH	Case Western Reserve University School of Medicine	Yes
OH	The Ohio State University College of Medicine	Yes
PA	University of Pittsburgh School of Medicine	Yes
TN	Vanderbilt University School of Medicine	Yes
VA	University of Virginia School of Medicine	Yes
NY	Tufts University School Of Medicine	Maybe
NY	University of Rochester School of Medicine and Dentistry	Maybe
NY	Weill Cornell Medicine	Maybe
OH	University of Cincinnati College of Medicine	Maybe
PA	Perelman School of Medicine at the University of Pennsylvania	Maybe
PA	Sidney Kimmel Medical College at Thomas Jefferson University	Maybe
RI	Warren Alpert Medical School of Brown University	Maybe
VA	Virginia Commonwealth University School of Medicine	Maybe
WV	West Virginia University School of Medicine	Maybe
CA	Kaiser Permanente Bernard J. Tyson School of Medicine	No
CA	UCSF School of Medicine	No
CT	Yale School of Medicine	No
FL	University of Miami Leonard M. Miller School of Medicine	No
MA	Boston University School of Medicine	No
MA	Harvard Medical School	No
MA	UMass Chan Medical School	No
NY	Columbia University Vagelos College of Physicians and Surgeons	No

There are several "No" schools that I'm thinking that I have no chances (or low chances) and several "Maybe" that I may apply but on the fence at this point. Any suggestions ? I want to bring the down to 25.

Since I will apply this cycle, the main activity I'm working on is the paid MA, which I should have over 300 hours by early June and more project hours, since I have 1 year commitment with the clinic.

Any advices and/or suggestions are welcomed and appreciated.

 

[Faha]

Remove Jefferson, Virginia Commonwealth and West Virginia since they will "yield protect" with your stats.

 

[cafenoir]

Remove Jefferson, Virginia Commonwealth and West Virginia since they will "yield protect" with your stats.

Thank you.

 

[everythingis onfire]

I plan to get a few additional hours for non-clinical volunteer during spring break. Anything else I should look for to help with my app in this cycle?

I’m not sure if just a few additional volunteer hours will be enough to tie your application together. You have stellar stats, and while you were involved in research you don’t mention any publications/presentations. Have you read through school secondaries and seen the type of questions they ask and what experiences they are looking for? Do you think you have meaningful experiences, reflections, etc. to be able to answer those types of questions and more during interviews? If you do, that’s awesome. I just don’t want you to fall into the trap of other 4.0 applicants who don’t end up anywhere because their app otherwise lacked substance.

 

[Alejandro]

I think the problem that I foresee with all of this and I could be wrong, but to just go on a limb here:

I think your stats will get you into a medical school, just by sheer brute force. There will be at least one who will accept you just because the numbers are impressive.

That said, I get nothing in your application that demonstrates that you would care or understand how to care for my loved ones if they were hospitalized. A GPA and MCAT like that will put you on the stand for whether or not if you failed at some point in your life. I wrote in another thread the same thing: "Do you want your doctor to introduce him/herself with an MCAT and GPA?" So the bigger things are for you to get some life experience. You have all of the grades to get into medical school, but I think you owe it to yourself (and your future patients) to learn something outside of the ivory towers of university before you commit to med school and onward. Fail a few times. Learn something from it. Get humbled. Nobody is questioning your ability to pass a test in training, but being a physician is way more than taking a test.

 

[Goro]

Thank you very much for your advices. I updated my list to include research and other ECs. The truth is I didn't know much about other requirements beside academic, during my first 2 years and just focusing on research and shadowing. Also, I was thinking about a gap to build up stronger application. However, part of me wanted to try my luck this year to see if I can get in if I can. As for academic or rural medicine, I prefer clinical medicine practicing in the city and haven't thought about rural medicine, since I'm fairly new in the process.

Applying this cycle with such weak extracurriculars will mean that all of your money will go as donations. The schools you want to Target, in fact deserve to Target do not need the money. Better off taking your mom out for Mother's Day.

 

[Goro]

Really, OP what are you going to say when asked how you know you are suited for a life of caring for the sick and suffering? “That you just know”? Imagine how that will go over!

Quoting the wise LizzyM: If you have more than 300 hours of non-clinical volunteering by the time you apply you will be in the top 25% of applicants with regard to community service (based on what I see). The tip top of the pyramid are those who do a full-time volunteerism during a gap year or two (Peace Corps, City Year, etc).
Clinical... top 25% of the pool have employment in a clinical setting: EMT, scribe, patient care technician (aide). The hours don't matter... it is going to be hundreds of hours if you even work full-time for a few weeks.


Here's the deal: You need to show AdComs that you know what you're getting into, and show off your altruistic, humanistic side. We need to know that you're going to like being around sick or injured people for the next 40 years.
Here's another way of looking at it: would you buy a new car without test driving it? Buy a new suit or dress without trying it on??

We're also not looking merely for good medical students, we're looking for people who will make good doctors, and 4.0 GPA robots are a dime-a-dozen.
I've seen plenty of posts here from high GPA/high MCAT candidates who were rejected because they had little patient contact experience.
Not all volunteering needs to be in a hospital. Think hospice, Planned Parenthood, nursing homes, rehab facilities, crisis hotlines, camps for sick children, or clinics.

Some types of volunteer activities are more appealing than others. Volunteering in a nice suburban hospital is all very well and good and all but doesn't show that you're willing to dig in and get your hands dirty in the same way that working with the developmentally disabled (or homeless, the dying, or Alzheimer’s or mentally ill or elderly or ESL or domestic, rural impoverished) does. The uncomfortable situations are the ones that really demonstrate your altruism and get you 'brownie points'. Plus, they frankly teach you more -- they develop your compassion and humanity in ways comfortable situations can't.

Service need not be "unique"; it can be anything that helps people unable to help themselves and that is outside of a patient-care setting. If you can alleviate suffering in your community through service to the poor, homeless, illiterate, fatherless, etc, you are meeting an otherwise unmet need and learning more about the lives of the people (or types of people) who will someday be your patients.
Check out your local houses of worship for volunteer opportunities. The key thing is service to others less fortunate than you. And get off campus and out of your comfort zone!

Examples include: Habitat for Humanity, Ronald McDonald House, Humane Society, crisis hotlines, soup kitchen, food pantry, homeless or women’s shelter, after-school tutoring for students or coaching a sport in a poor school district, teaching literacy or ESL to adults at a community center, Big Brothers/Big Sisters, Meals on Wheels, mentoring immigrant/refugee adults, being a friendly visitor to shut-ins, adaptive sports program coach or Special Olympics.

Faha's list is a good one. Keep in mind that many Top Schools are also service-loving, not merely research who...um...sex workers.

 

[cafenoir]

Thank you all for sharing your perspectives. I agree with everybody here about the importance of demonstrating empathy and understanding in patient care, beyond grades and scores. Personally, my curiosity and desire to learn about medicine began at a young age, and this commitment helped me focus in school and become involved in volunteering throughout high school and college. While my primary focus in college was obtaining good grades and preparing for a decent MCAT score, I actively sought opportunities to learn beyond the classroom, to engage with and contribute to local community.

I am aware that there are still years of learning and service ahead before becoming a physician and "greeting" the first patient with my awesome MCAT score . I am confident that I will have numerous additional clinical and volunteer experiences. I believe that medical school is where students continue to develop the skills and qualities necessary to become compassionate and effective physicians.

I am still on the fence about applying this cycle or taking time to explore and learn more about the medical path. I will take all the advices here into consideration.

 

[Mr.Smile12]

I am still on the fence about applying this cycle or taking time to explore and learn more about the medical path. I will take all the advices here into consideration.

You have put yourself on a clock. Most schools want MCAT scores within 3 years of matriculation.

Take time to explore why you want to help people in the role of a physician by immersing yourself in communities outside your own experience. Do Peace Corps or an Americorps year. Many Mormons have their 2 year missions, and many Koreans and Israelis have compulsory military service obligations. Work in an Indian Health Service or a rural health clinic. Be changed by the communities you serve. Then you will understand how they need health care and how our system fails them.

 

[cafenoir]

You have put yourself on a clock. Most schools want MCAT scores within 3 years of matriculation.

Take time to explore why you want to help people in the role of a physician by immersing yourself in communities outside your own experience. Do Peace Corps or an Americorps year. Many Mormons have their 2 year missions, and many Koreans and Israelis have compulsory military service obligations. Work in an Indian Health Service or a rural health clinic. Be changed by the communities you serve. Then you will understand how they need health care and how our system fails them.

I was looking at AmeriCorps opening in my area , and current opening required college graduated for the positions. Perhaps, I will look intio it after graduation.

 

[FlaringRaynauds]

Your resume checks enough boxes I think you are going to matriculate, likely at your flagship university. Moreover, you have the horsepwer with the GPA/MCAT scores to be a strong applicant at the schools most can only dream about if you take a gap or two and polish up the resume. However, opting for a gap year or two might come at a price, not just in terms of time but also financially. When factoring in living expenses and potential earnings lost during each gap year, the costs can add up significantly. It's really about thinking it through, having a plan, and envisioning where you see yourself in the future.

 

[cafenoir]

Your resume checks enough boxes I think you are going to matriculate, likely at your flagship university. Moreover, you have the horsepwer with the GPA/MCAT scores to be a strong applicant at the schools most can only dream about if you take a gap or two and polish up the resume. However, opting for a gap year or two might come at a price, not just in terms of time but also financially. When factoring in living expenses and potential earnings lost during each gap year, the costs can add up significantly. It's really about thinking it through, having a plan, and envisioning where you see yourself in the future.

Thank you for your input.