(WAMC) What are my chances for matching into Dermatology?

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While there are lots of things that are "important," keep in mind that none of them are deal-breakers and a lot of them are subjective. What's important to one program (and thus the answers you'll get from students who trained there) might be different than what's important to another.

I thought I was going to do family medicine until August of my 4th year. I did a derm elective so that I would be a better family doc and ended up loving it. I didn't know anyone, I had no research, and I barely had time to cram in an away rotation before ERAS went out (and I did not end up getting an interview at my away anyhow).

You've made it this far in life... you should be able to tell if you're annoying someone or not. If the person you're working with seems easily annoyed by your presence, find someone else to work with. Dermatologists are as different from one another as much as any other two people are... some of them are very nice and some are not. Work with the nice ones if you can... you'll learn more and be more likely to get a good letter of recommendation out of the experience.

With your Step 1 score I would wait until January or later to take your Step 2. Some people will tell you to just take it after Sep. 1 so that it's not automatically reported, but programs are allowed to ask for your score in the interview. It doesn't happen often, but it did happen on 2 of my interviews. I was glad to be able to say I hadn't taken it yet.
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yaihjai1 said:
I am a 3rd year medical student at a mid-tier medical school in the midwest.
Step 1: 254
3rd year: honored 1st semester (now on 2nd semester)
1st/2nd year: half honors/high pass
Research in derm: anticipate one first author and one 2nd author
LOR: anticipate 3 strong LOR from home derm program

So my question is how competitive am I? I'm looking to do an away rotation as well but am wondering whether I should do it at a mid-tier vs top-tier (ie:mayo) to increase my chances.

Advice would be appreciated. Thanks.
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Do an away at a place you think you might like to go for residency. You're more likely to get an interview at the place you do your away than you are to land interviews because someone was impressed by where you did it.
 
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ClockworkDoc said:
How about:
Step 1: 256
Junior AOA
No Pubs
some bench research before med school without presentations.
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Seriously? You couldn't ask for better grades or step 1, plus it looks like you're from Creighton, which is not exactly a no-name school. The only thing we're going to be able to tell you you already know... go talk to your department and try to get something published.
 
SierraPoppa said:
Seriously? You couldn't ask for better grades or step 1, plus it looks like you're from Creighton, which is not exactly a no-name school. The only thing we're going to be able to tell you you already know... go talk to your department and try to get something published.
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I apologize for my unproductive post. I just started looking into derm just recently and I got a little trigger happy. All that I knew about applying to derm was that it is ultracompetitive.

As far as getting back to the West Coast, do you have any suggestions for how to increase my chances? What time of year would you suggest taking the step 2. Any suggestions for externships - especially schools not part of VSAS?
 
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Now I know that third year grades are the most important and that if one is going into Dermatology he/she should try to get as many clinical honors under their belt.

Lets say it just say for whatever reason it doesn't work out, and by the time third year is over grades are all high pass. ~245 boards, no AOA, top 25 school with reputable derm department. Are chances shot even with a good productive research year off? Will my application be automatically screened out because of no clinical honors? Is all hope lost?
 
No reason not to try. If you have a super productive research year, that might cancel out your less than stellar grades. Good board score. For sure you can't get senior AOA?

There's always research fellowship after intern year if it doesn't work out as a med student. One of my acquaintances finally matched (outside NRMP) after applying 4 times and finishing out a 2 year fellowship at one of the top derm programs. She stuck with it despite the frustration, and came out on top.
 
I had a similar problem and was able to match.

You need to make sure something on your CV is outstanding enough to cover for that.

Perhaps you have some research already under your belt?

Or perhaps you can take off an entire year to commit to research?
 
You pretty much described me. I matched this year to a program I was very excited about. 3rd year honors and AOA definitely get you interviews but are not boxes that must be checked in order to match. Having some research to talk about, preparing well for interviews, and good letters go a long way to matching.
 
I didn't have any honors (basically all HP's), pretty average step 1 and 2 scores (compared to derm applicants), and did a ton of research (5 first author publications and 6-8 middle author) during med school and received plenty of interview invitations and matched at a very strong program (not my home program). Get to know your program very well if nothing more than to get strong LORs, do 1-2 away rotations, and try to publish as much as possible. You'll want to focus on things that you have control over, like research/etc. Perhaps a year of research will help, but certainly not a necessity. Good luck!
 
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ClockworkDoc said:
I apologize for my unproductive post. I just started looking into derm just recently and I got a little trigger happy. All that I knew about applying to derm was that it is ultracompetitive.

As far as getting back to the West Coast, do you have any suggestions for how to increase my chances? What time of year would you suggest taking the step 2. Any suggestions for externships - especially schools not part of VSAS?
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It's harder to get to the west coast from the midwest. Probably the only thing you can do to help your chances is try to land some aways out there. I didn't even apply to the coasts b/c it's largely a futile effort for midwesterners.

Anyone with a step 1 high enough to be looking at derm I would wait until Dec/Jan/Feb to take your step 2. My step 1 was near yours and I took my step 2 in late Dec. That way there's no pressure. If you take it early but after ERAS it won't go to programs unless you want it to, but they can still ask (and some did for me... I was glad to be able to honestly say I hadn't taken it).
 
This is the perfect thread to appease the neurotic med student, like me. Lay it on me folks, here are my stats:

Step 1: 256
1st-2nd year: Mostly honors (6/11 first year; 11/13 second year)
AOA: Not junior, maybe senior but not sure. Let's say no for now
3rd year: Honors in Medicine, Surgery, Psychiatry (3/6)
Medical School: We like to think we are awesome, but we're not. Probably mid-tier but with an excellent derm department at least (top 20 NIH funding)
Research: my achilles heel. 1 pub anesthesia (4th author), 1 textbook pub (2nd author), currently working on a derm project and case report. May get the case report out by October.
Other: I am going to do some work abroad in derm this summer, I realize it isn't a make it or break it thing but maybe some of you know some programs that look more highly on that then other programs.
 
thanks for the replies and supportive comments! it's always nice to know that the other spectrum of applicants does exist!
 
Jimmer Fredette said:
This is the perfect thread to appease the neurotic med student, like me. Lay it on me folks, here are my stats:

Step 1: 256
1st-2nd year: Mostly honors (6/11 first year; 11/13 second year)
AOA: Not junior, maybe senior but not sure. Let's say no for now
3rd year: Honors in Medicine, Surgery, Psychiatry (3/6)
Medical School: We like to think we are awesome, but we're not. Probably mid-tier but with an excellent derm department at least (top 20 NIH funding)
Research: my achilles heel. 1 pub anesthesia (4th author), 1 textbook pub (2nd author), currently working on a derm project and case report. May get the case report out by October.
Other: I am going to do some work abroad in derm this summer, I realize it isn't a make it or break it thing but maybe some of you know some programs that look more highly on that then other programs.
Click to expand...

Being college player of the year should land you some interviews.
 
sensitive skin said:
There's always research fellowship after intern year QUOTE]

Can one do a research fellowship as the first thing they do (with the hope that it will land them the residency) or is it always done after an intern year?
Click to expand...
 
I am a 3rd year so it is relatively later in the game, but I want to know what you guys think of my chances if I do NOT take a research year.

1. Medical school ranked in 20s
2. Grades are 70th percentile (no AOA). Clinical rotations: H in Surgery, Neuro, Psych - HP in Medicine, Family, OB Gyn. Basic sciences average out to an HP.
3. Step 1: 260
4. 3 case reports in derm, 4 publications in non-derm (2 are case series, 2 are case reports), 2 posters.
5. I'm a guy and my looks are average (I'm pretty sure looks matters).
6. Most of my good extracurriculars are from college, the most significant one was where I was a student teacher for about 150 college students for a year (do they care about college?).

Be honest. Thanks.
 
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I'm posting this with very limited experience on what makes or breaks a derm applicant. However, since this tread is titled 'what are my chances', I thought I'd give my impressions on the importance of extracurriculars status-post my 2011 interview experience.

I never thought extracurriculars mattered much. Grades, AOA, publications and LORs seemed more critical. That being said, once you had the interview... extracurriculars became VERY important. As a matter of fact, they were how you got remembered out of the other 30 or so stellar interviewees.

Your potential future colleagues wanted to know that you liked hiking, biking, cooking, traveling, playing & watching sports, volunteering at the local soup kitchen, etc. Not only did they want to know you did these things, but they wanted you to be 'AOA' in those fields!! :rolleyes:

:luck::luck: Good luck! :luck::luck:
 
comedone said:
I'm posting this with very limited experience on what makes or breaks a derm applicant. However, since this tread is titled 'what are my chances', I thought I'd give my impressions on the importance of extracurriculars status-post my 2011 interview experience.

I never thought extracurriculars mattered much. Grades, AOA, publications and LORs seemed more critical. That being said, once you had the interview... extracurriculars became VERY important. As a matter of fact, they were how you got remembered out of the other 30 or so stellar interviewees.

Your potential future colleagues wanted to know that you liked hiking, biking, cooking, traveling, playing & watching sports, volunteering at the local soup kitchen, etc. Not only did they want to know you did these things, but they wanted you to be 'AOA' in those fields!! :rolleyes:

:luck::luck: Good luck! :luck::luck:
Click to expand...

I hate this process. What do you have to do to impress these people? I am going to take a couple years off and live in the Himalayas where I will build a monestary dedicated to rearing and teaching orphans. At the same time I will fly to and from the NIH (in an air balloon) where I will conduct cutting edge research on the skin samples I collect from the orphans. When I am done, I will be in such great shape from climbing the Himalayas to and from my monestary palace that I will win the Boston Marathon. Then I will take on the biggest challenge of all... applying to dermatology. Do you think this will increase my chances of getting in?
 
comedone said:
I'm posting this with very limited experience on what makes or breaks a derm applicant. However, since this tread is titled 'what are my chances', I thought I'd give my impressions on the importance of extracurriculars status-post my 2011 interview experience.

I never thought extracurriculars mattered much. Grades, AOA, publications and LORs seemed more critical. That being said, once you had the interview... extracurriculars became VERY important. As a matter of fact, they were how you got remembered out of the other 30 or so stellar interviewees.

Your potential future colleagues wanted to know that you liked hiking, biking, cooking, traveling, playing & watching sports, volunteering at the local soup kitchen, etc. Not only did they want to know you did these things, but they wanted you to be 'AOA' in those fields!! :rolleyes:

:luck::luck: Good luck! :luck::luck:
Click to expand...

I saw this as well. Interviewers were very interested in things I thought were not that important and actually caught me off guard asking about them a couple of times. I have many strange hobbies as far as med students go, and that's what most of my interviewers wanted to talk about. I'm sure it helped me match.
 
jiggabot said:
I am a 3rd year so it is relatively later in the game, but I want to know what you guys think of my chances if I do NOT take a research year.

1. Medical school ranked in 20s
2. Grades are 70th percentile (no AOA). Clinical rotations: H in Surgery, Neuro, Psych - HP in Medicine, Family, OB Gyn. Basic sciences average out to an HP.
3. Step 1: 260
4. 3 case reports in derm, 4 publications in non-derm (2 are case series, 2 are case reports), 2 posters.
5. I'm a guy and my looks are average (I'm pretty sure looks matters).
6. Most of my good extracurriculars are from college, the most significant one was where I was a student teacher for about 150 college students for a year (do they care about college?).

Be honest. Thanks.
Click to expand...

It's my personal opinion, but I would not take a research year unless you don't match the first time around. I say that because I don't enjoy research. I think grades matter less if you're from a school that's seen as "hard" and more if you're from a no-name school, but that all depends on individual programs.

Yes they care about your college extra-curriculars. Most med students don't have time to do as much during med school. Like I said above, most of my interviewers wanted to talk about my hobbies more than anything, most of which I had much more time for during undergrad.
 
Jimmer Fredette said:
I hate this process. What do you have to do to impress these people? I am going to take a couple years off and live in the Himalayas where I will build a monestary dedicated to rearing and teaching orphans. At the same time I will fly to and from the NIH (in an air balloon) where I will conduct cutting edge research on the skin samples I collect from the orphans. When I am done, I will be in such great shape from climbing the Himalayas to and from my monestary palace that I will win the Boston Marathon. Then I will take on the biggest challenge of all... applying to dermatology. Do you think this will increase my chances of getting in?
Click to expand...

Sounds like the beginning framework of an ideal dermatology applicant personal statement... :laugh::laugh::laugh:
 
comedone said:
Sounds like the beginning framework of an ideal dermatology applicant personal statement... :laugh::laugh::laugh:
Click to expand...

You think so? I wonder if building a monestary is getting to commonplace these days, that is why I opted to fly to the NIH in the hot air balloon rather then a plane... Honestly, I love derm and will keep at it until I get in. So what are examples of extracirriculars you all have seen that set people apart? It seems like these can be somewhat regional, right? If you are from CA and like to surf it may sound awesome to Wisconsin people but might be ho-hum to other CA schools. Same is true with the "outdoorsy, love to ski" type in Utah, that descibes 95% of the hospital staff, but it is a bit more unique in other places. So what is the secret to making your extracirriculars sound unique and to set yourself apart with them? I realize they are personal but it seems like few people do nothing but study, work and sleep (when they weren't in med school, of course) who are applying to residency. I could be very wrong, please correct me if so.
 
Jimmer Fredette said:
You think so? I wonder if building a monestary is getting to commonplace these days, that is why I opted to fly to the NIH in the hot air balloon rather then a plane... Honestly, I love derm and will keep at it until I get in. So what are examples of extracirriculars you all have seen that set people apart? It seems like these can be somewhat regional, right? If you are from CA and like to surf it may sound awesome to Wisconsin people but might be ho-hum to other CA schools. Same is true with the "outdoorsy, love to ski" type in Utah, that descibes 95% of the hospital staff, but it is a bit more unique in other places. So what is the secret to making your extracirriculars sound unique and to set yourself apart with them? I realize they are personal but it seems like few people do nothing but study, work and sleep (when they weren't in med school, of course) who are applying to residency. I could be very wrong, please correct me if so.
Click to expand...

I discussed trekking in the Himalayas and shadowing a high altitude doc during my interview. I didn't even include it in my ERAS application as it is so common place nowadays.

However, if I trekked past base camp to the Everest summit with Edmund Hillary and Tenzing Norgay -- I am quite sure UCSF would have called me this past cold December.

(I still dream about you, UCSF...:sleep:)
 
SierraPoppa said:
I saw this as well. Interviewers were very interested in things I thought were not that important and actually caught me off guard asking about them a couple of times. I have many strange hobbies as far as med students go, and that's what most of my interviewers wanted to talk about. I'm sure it helped me match.
Click to expand...


??seriously?? please tell us more!!
 
Jimmer Fredette said:
You think so? I wonder if building a monestary is getting to commonplace these days, that is why I opted to fly to the NIH in the hot air balloon rather then a plane... Honestly, I love derm and will keep at it until I get in. So what are examples of extracirriculars you all have seen that set people apart? It seems like these can be somewhat regional, right? If you are from CA and like to surf it may sound awesome to Wisconsin people but might be ho-hum to other CA schools. Same is true with the "outdoorsy, love to ski" type in Utah, that descibes 95% of the hospital staff, but it is a bit more unique in other places. So what is the secret to making your extracirriculars sound unique and to set yourself apart with them? I realize they are personal but it seems like few people do nothing but study, work and sleep (when they weren't in med school, of course) who are applying to residency. I could be very wrong, please correct me if so.
Click to expand...

Examples drawn from my class, colleagues around country, and future members:

- former teacher
- derm attending in other country
- Rhode scholar
- former engineer
- international concert pianist
- research in derm (1 to 5) years

And then some people are just smart, friendly folks. You have to make a certain score cutoff (230s, decent grades), and then you have to have letters that vouch for you as a good candidate. After that, you have to genuinely want derm and convey that at the interview and not be annoying. That's all.
 
Nellyakgo said:
sensitive skin said:
There's always research fellowship after intern year QUOTE]

Can one do a research fellowship as the first thing they do (with the hope that it will land them the residency) or is it always done after an intern year?
Click to expand...

Many research fellowship involve patient contact, which means licensure. Some are more basic science or epi, and don't.
Click to expand...
 
Iwy Em Hotep said:
Examples drawn from my class, colleagues around country, and future members:

- former teacher
- derm attending in other country
- Rhode scholar
- former engineer
- international concert pianist
- research in derm (1 to 5) years

And then some people are just smart, friendly folks. You have to make a certain score cutoff (230s, decent grades), and then you have to have letters that vouch for you as a good candidate. After that, you have to genuinely want derm and convey that at the interview and not be annoying. That's all.
Click to expand...

Thanks. It seems like most people I know in med school have some pretty interesting hobbies. If they don't, it is usually because they haven't had the time to develop them due to having a busy job in the past, which also sets them apart. It seems to me you just have to do a good job making sure you make yourself look interesting. Am I right?
 
comedone said:
I discussed trekking in the Himalayas and shadowing a high altitude doc during my interview. I didn't even include it in my ERAS application as it is so common place nowadays.

However, if I trekked past base camp to the Everest summit with Edmund Hillary and Tenzing Norgay -- I am quite sure UCSF would have called me this past cold December.

(I still dream about you, UCSF...:sleep:)
Click to expand...

Whoa... I wonder what the people who got into UCSF did. Maybe it was Eddy Hillary himself who got in ahead of you, but then again, how many people these days backpack up the side of large mountains? Everyone does it, especially in San Francisco.
 
Jimmer Fredette said:
Thanks. It seems like most people I know in med school have some pretty interesting hobbies. If they don't, it is usually because they haven't had the time to develop them due to having a busy job in the past, which also sets them apart. It seems to me you just have to do a good job making sure you make yourself look interesting. Am I right?
Click to expand...

Proof of passion for dermatology first. Be an interesting, easy-going person next.
 
comedone said:
I discussed trekking in the Himalayas and shadowing a high altitude doc during my interview. I didn't even include it in my ERAS application as it is so common place nowadays.

However, if I trekked past base camp to the Everest summit with Edmund Hillary and Tenzing Norgay -- I am quite sure UCSF would have called me this past cold December.

(I still dream about you, UCSF...:sleep:)
Click to expand...

I still dream about you, UCLA...:), but I'm just thankful to have obtained a spot somewhere, even if it means I'll have to get used to snow again!
 
comedone said:
??seriously?? please tell us more!!
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I would, except that I don't particularly want my true identity out there on SD and it would be pretty easy to pick me out based on my hobbies. Like I said, they're unusual.
 
I'm really worried about no clinical honors. I've got >250 Step I, 2 non-derm research projects that are submitted, all pre-clinical honors, but only A's (I guess other schools' equivalent of "High Pass") during third year. I'm finishing up family med, and then I have psych and neuro left. I don't know if I'll honor any of them (but I'll sure try), but if I end this year with no clinical honors I feel like my derm chances are diminishing quite a bit.

Added to that, despite my preclinical performances and Step I and such, I was nominated for but failed to achieve AOA status.

This whole applying for derm thing really makes you neurotic.
 
vicinihil said:
How did you go from being interested to EM 2 days ago to suddenly Derm 2 days later?
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It's a messy situation, for sure. I've been wanting to apply for dermatology, but as of right now there are a lot of logistics that need to be worked out in order for that to happen. EM is what I've set up for now as my specialty, but I would prefer to do derm and am trying to arrange things so that I may successfully do so. So although ultimately I'm hoping to apply for derm, as things stand right now EM is sort of the direction my boat has been headed.

I don't know if that makes sense.
 
I am a visual person and enjoyed my the dermatology pre-clinical course very much. My Step 1 score is in the 240s but I have no honors, no AOA. I completely ruled-out dermatology because I am not competitive enough, but am starting to consider it again since I can see myself doing it for a long time- compared to others specialties which have aspects I dislike.

Do I have close to 0 chance at a dermatology residency? With my stats, will it even make a difference if I took some time off to do research?

Wish there were more derm positions open :(

Thanks :)
 
jiggabot said:
I am a 3rd year so it is relatively later in the game, but I want to know what you guys think of my chances if I do NOT take a research year.

1. Medical school ranked in 20s
2. Grades are 70th percentile (no AOA). Clinical rotations: H in Surgery, Neuro, Psych - HP in Medicine, Family, OB Gyn. Basic sciences average out to an HP.
3. Step 1: 260
4. 3 case reports in derm, 4 publications in non-derm (2 are case series, 2 are case reports), 2 posters.
5. I'm a guy and my looks are average (I'm pretty sure looks matters).
6. Most of my good extracurriculars are from college, the most significant one was where I was a student teacher for about 150 college students for a year (do they care about college?).

Be honest. Thanks.
Click to expand...

Really... LOL! What is your personality like? Probably a tad bit more important than your looks or the fact that you are a guy.
 
vicinihil said:
That makes too much sense to be well received in the Derm application cycle. They probably won't even ask you.
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Actually I did have a few places that asked me in so many words. One place asked if I was interested in seeing patients...I was like WTF...this isn't a med school interview...like I've said before, some places know how to interview and some places don't have a clue. Go figure...be prepared to answer to both types of questions...good ones and bad ones.
 
Th biggest mistake you are making is not approaching the dermatology department heads.Some were probably in the same situation as you are and they will be the best ones to guide you, why should anyone laugh at you,?
 
dermathalon said:
Actually I did have a few places that asked me in so many words. One place asked if I was interested in seeing patients...I was like WTF...this isn't a med school interview...like I've said before, some places know how to interview and some places don't have a clue. Go figure...be prepared to answer to both types of questions...good ones and bad ones.
Click to expand...

I was actually asked that at Pittsburgh...thought it was an obnoxious, but fair (I guess...) question....(like...um...for real???!).
 
To go along with the "no clinical honors" question/thread that apparently got moved here, I'm a 3rd year medical student who honored all of my 1st/2nd year courses, and have all A's but no honors in my 3rd year clerkships (we do Honors/A/B/C/F), except an A- in Medicine:mad:. I'm not sure how that happened, as it was one of my middle-of-the-year rotations and I was working my butt off and did well on the shelf.

Anyway, nothing I can do about that now but do the best with what I have. Aside from my grades, my situation is as follows:

Step I: 255
AOA: No, unfortunately (was considered, and may be again for senior AOA hopefully)
Research: Zero pubs, but 2 submissions (one a first author) in an unrelated field, and I'm just now starting to get involved with some derm research.

How screwed am I? SDN makes me feel really neurotic, and looking over my transcript, the A- in Medicine kinda sticks out like a sore thumb to me.
 
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