Wanting to become a GMO

[riversoul]

I know I know, I may sound crazy by considering GMO via Navy 3 yr HPSP, but please hear me out first before the expected flaming!

My background
22y/o, just graduated from college, currently applying to medical school (1 interview so far, from Tulane, and applied to 36 schools), not married, dad was in AF 10yrs, grandpa + 2uncles former Navy (If my grandpa had never joined the U.S Navy in the Philippines during WWII, who knows where I would be right now). I know it may be too early for me to be thinking about GMO since i haven't even been accepted to a med school, but i'm preparing myself for possible interview questions such as "Where do you see yourself in 10 years?" or "How do you plan to pay off your loans?" Tulane was also the only med school to ask specifically about a military scholarship, so I'm expecting a question from them about the military.

My plan (assuming med school acceptance)
Sign up for 3yr Navy HPSP during med school and graduate. 1 yr mil internship, followed by 3 yrs payback as GMO. Then apply for civilian residencies. Plz correct me if i'm wrong about payback years, internship, etc.

Why I'm considering GMO

1) Assuming med school acceptance, I'll be 27 y/o upon graduating from med school. I don't plan on being married at that age (although I know things can unexpectedly change in the near future). Also, I'm not sure if I would want to immediately go into a civilian residency. I'll be in my late 20's and would want time to explore the world, and partake in activities you just can't do in the civilian sector (http://forums.studentdoctor.net/showthread.php?t=77416&highlight=civilian+residency), and serve my country with my medical (albeit limited b/c of no residency) abilities before going into hardcore residency training, getting married, and having kids. I've lived in Cali for the past 15 yrs, and have been out of the country only once in my life (to the Philippines for a month back in 1999). Admittedly, I've lived a pretty sheltered life here and want to experience something other than the Cali bubble.

If I decided to go the traditional route (forgo the military altogether, and apply for residency immediately after med school), I would be ~35 y/o after residency (age depending on type of residency, but I'm considering specializing, so prob 5-6 yrs of resid right?) At that age, I DO want to be married and start a family. With a family life, however, I wouldn't want to be in the military and be deployed…which is why I'm not sure if FAP would be right for me. With the traditional route now, I will have missed out on the opportunity to see other parts of the world, serve my country, possibly partake in the activities in the thread linked above, and be trained in the military (based on what I've read in other posts, military training would help me to be even more disciplined, enhance my physical fitness, gain more real world leadership experience, and possibly be a better "protector" for my family in case, god forbid, something were to happen. They teach basic combat and weapons techniques to GMO's right? Perhaps I should get a gun license in the future too?).

2) Financial reasons. I know I know, I've seen many of those posts about "Don't join the military just for the money…You'll be better off financially if you just go straight through to residency after med school, and it won't be that difficult to pay off your loans."

As I've described above, though, money wouldn't be the sole reason for me wanting to serve in the military. However, I think the scholarship money would benefit my situation:

I'm a Cali resident so it'll be rough for me to get into a state school and have that wonderful IS tuition. Chances are i'll end up OOS (assuming acceptance of course) and the tuition will be pretty damn high. W/o a military scholarship, I would have a crapload of loans to pay off. My parents are already having to pay for undergrad loans for me and my sibling. And then my sibling is considering dental school, so even more expensive loans for my parents to look forward to help pay off! A military scholarship would lighten their financial burden so to speak, even though my mom isn't really thrilled about me considering the military. My Dad was in the AF for 10 years so he somewhat supports my consideration.

And I don't really mind if those who go the traditional route are able to finish residency earlier and make more money sooner than me, if i decide to go military. I mean, we're not supposed to go into medicine just for the money ANYWAYS, right???

3) Apparently, GMO tours will help you to become a more well-rounded applicant than the traditional med school graduates applying for civilian residencies (assuming you already have high board scores, letters, etc.).
http://forums.studentdoctor.net/showthread.php?t=264194&highlight=GMO+tour


Other points
- I really would like to hear more about positive GMO experiences, especially those in the Navy. Positive GMO's seem to be lacking in this forum, although the ones I did find sound very exciting.

- And where can I find accurate info about GMO's in the AF or Army? Do they even have GMO's where you get HPSP, payback solely via GMO, and then can apply for civilian residency?

- What are the difficulties in applying to civilian residency after completing GMO? For instance, Is it more difficult to obtain letters of rec from professors in your old med school? Can you ask for those letters before heading out to GMO and will the letters still be valid by the time of residency application?

- I don't intend to have a career in military medicine. After reading about the negatives, which are so prevalent in this forum, I wouldn't want to pursue a military residency. THIS is why i'm considering GMO as my main payback option if I decide to go for and successfully obtain HPSP.

- How difficult is it to be married during residency?? And I'm assuming it's even harder to have a family during residency, right?

- I also would like to hear any criticism of my current plans for my future. Again, I'm only 22y/o and still applying to med school, so I would really appreciate advice from those who have been there and done that in med school and beyond.

In summary, the GMO tour sounds like a good way to live an exciting and valuable life after med school and before entering the more limiting life of residency, marriage, and kids. I don't want to regret not having seen the rest of the world, doing "cool" military activities, and being military trained, all while i'm still single. And plus, I wouldn't have to worry about med school loans! Helps both me and my parents out.

Is my thinking about becoming a GMO reasonable, or am I just downright crazy?? Thanks in advance. And sorry for the long read, but there was a lot on my mind!

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[orbitsurgMD]

..... In summary, the GMO tour sounds like a good way to live an exciting and valuable life after med school and before entering the more limiting life of residency, marriage, and kids. I don't want to regret not having seen the rest of the world, doing "cool" military activities, and being military trained, all while i'm still single. And plus, I wouldn’t have to worry about med school loans! Helps both me and my parents out.

You are making a lot of assumptions about your life four or five years down the line. Doing a GMO tour followed by a civilian residency pushes out the date at which you would normally be able to start work as an attending; that might mean geographic moves later on and disruption of your spouse's career, if your assumptions hold.

If you think GMO duties are "cool", then you are thinking of only a small percentage of the duties. Most of the duties are not so cool. Some are not appropriate for you to be doing as an independently-practicing medical professional with only an internship for post-graduate training. "Exciting and valuable life after med school?" You made me laugh. You sure you aren't a recruiter?

You would probably be able to do a GMO payback as you imagine, although there might be more pressure/expectation for you to do a residency first. If you go HPSP, that choice won't be entirely yours. If you go FAP, it would.

Most students assume their own debts just fine. I don't know why you couldn't also. The military today isn't your daddy's AF/Army/Navy, so I would base your decision on something more concrete than parental encouragement. If your family members weren't medical doctors in the military recently, I would discount that "encouragement." Not that they don't wish the best for you, but the idea of the so-called "free-ride" can be an inducement to encourage things that sound better than they are.

I recommend you don't do HPSP to become a GMO. You should really have the idea of wanting to do your residency as soon as you can, because that is what you will really be doing as a doctor. And if you aren't so enthusiastic about doing your residency straight away, are you really all that certain you want to go into medicine in the first place?

 

[IgD]

Read the book "On Call in Hell". It was written by a former Marine Corps officer turned physician. The book is about his experiences as GMO attached to a Marine unit in Iraq. If you still want to do it go for it.

 

[Galo]

You are making a lot of assumptions about your life four or five years down the line. Doing a GMO tour followed by a civilian residency pushes out the date at which you would normally be able to start work as an attending; that might mean geographic moves later on and disruption of your spouse's career, if your assumptions hold.

If you think GMO duties are "cool", then you are thinking of only a small percentage of the duties. Most of the duties are not so cool. Some are not appropriate for you to be doing as an independently-practicing medical professional with only an internship for post-graduate training. "Exciting and valuable life after med school?" You made me laugh. You sure you aren't a recruiter?

You would probably be able to do a GMO payback as you imagine, although there might be more pressure/expectation for you to do a residency first. If you go HPSP, that choice won't be entirely yours. If you go FAP, it would.

Most students assume their own debts just fine. I don't know why you couldn't also. The military today isn't your daddy's AF/Army/Navy, so I would base your decision on something more concrete than parental encouragement. If your family members weren't medical doctors in the military recently, I would discount that "encouragement." Not that they don't wish the best for you, but the idea of the so-called "free-ride" can be an inducement to encourage things that sound better than they are.

I recommend you don't do HPSP to become a GMO. You should really have the idea of wanting to do your residency as soon as you can, because that is what you will really be doing as a doctor. And if you aren't so enthusiastic about doing your residency straight away, are you really all that certain you want to go into medicine in the first place?

This is excellent advice and I could not have said it better.

You seem to know way too litte about military medicine and its current numerous pitfals, and I'd advice you to keep reading this forum.

Also the idea of holding back your training as a physician for 4 year in order to have the possibility of experiencing something cool, or saving a little money which you would easily pay off as a civilian physician, is really not a good one.

Military medicine has way too many negatives now. If you want to be a military officer, that's the only reason you should join. It will be expected of you.

Good luck

 

[DiveMD]

So, you want to join the military to get out of California and do something cool? Why don't you take some time off before med school and do something different? Peace Corps, Student Exchange Programs, back packing on your own (highly recommended). But if your real desire is to serve the military and you understand the consequences of that decision (READ THE FORUM) then do join…

 

[edmadison]

I agree with previous posters. I will add the following as well as answer some specific questions. If you want to a GMO after your internship in the Army, you will have no problem. There are plenty of spots available and not enough bodies to fill them. The guys at HRC will kiss you on the mouth, because they can fill a billet.

One issues you need to think about is what your future specialty will be. If you want to do something requiring a transitional year (RADS, GAS), you can do a transitional and then just go GMO. You can then apply for PGY-2 civilian match, no problem. But if you decide to do something that has a straight through residency you may have a problem. You may have to repeat internship. It's tough going back to the bottom of the heap after being an attending. You also may have to lie to military program directors. Noone will want to rank you if you are going to bail after one year. If you do pick this course, make sure you sign up for the GI bill. You can use it to supplement your income in your future civilian residency.

Ed

 

[riversoul]

After reading your replies, as well as bricktamland's GMO experience on another recent thread, there is almost no chance that I will pursue HPSP. I also feel like, "Damn, I really was crazy for writing that post" after reading over the FAP section in this forum.
Don't get me wrong though, I did not want to be a GMO for the sole reasons of doing something "cool" and seeing the world. I just thought those would be added benefits of receiving military training, wanting to serve my country and helping out the troops who sacrifice a lot for our security. I, like my dad, uncles, and grandpa who were in the military, am a strong supporter of the armed forces and really cannot stand those liberal types who bash on the military. I have one friend who said he really doesn't see the importance of the armed forces for our country. If that was so, the world would be like a city without a police force, complete chaos with hostiles attacking us left and right...like New Orleans right after Katrina. Without the U.S military, who would've stopped Hitler in his sadistic campaign, or the Japanese from murdering countless Filipinos during WWII?

Anyways, I still do want to serve time in the military as a physician, assuming a med school acceptance, and am considering FAP instead, and be a full-fledged doc upon entering AD in the military. It's probably still too early for me to be thinking about this, but I'm also considering taking a "gap" year(s) after med school graduation in case I'm not really sure about the specialty I want to pursue, based on bricktamland's experience. I'm supposing those years would give me more time to pursue more research, help out in medical missions abroad (allowing me to see other parts of the world while participating in a good cause), and possibly get married (my plan changed) before settling into a residency. So instead of a GMO, I would have that gap year(s). I still have to do more research though on how common and how plausible a gap year(s) would be, however.

It's a long road ahead, but I'm glad that I may have many things to look forward to. Now, I just have to do my best in this upcoming med school interview and hopefully get more interviews, and subsequent acceptances soon!

Thank you for all the advice.

 

[RugbyJC]

To OP...

I have done a few military rotations and its funny how different people might view this. There are a fair number of senior residents who did GMO tours who are very pro-GMO and would encourage this. Several of the interns i've worked with are completely psyched about trying to do dive medicine or flight surgery. Then there are others who are in more competative fields and are determined to go straight through.

Granted, I am just an MSIV and I didn't read much after the intro, so I don't know your reasons, but not everything in this community is representative of Navy medicine. Either that or everone who I have worked with is really two-faced and hates their job.

I agree that a lot could change in 4 years, but if you are flexible and in this for the long hall, then its something to consider and not completely throw out based on this forum.

 

[Mirror Form]

I never did a GMO tour, but it seems like the large majority of younger people I talked to who have done them say they were great (that said, there are plenty of true horror stories as well).

Most people, including myself, want to go straight through with training b/c it's such a long process that you just want to get it over with. However, now that I'm in residency, I'm starting to wonder if I should have just done a gmo tour first. Residency is so incredibley miserable that I really wish I had wasted years of my 30's doing this instead of years of my 20's.

 

[rotatores]

I used to think I wanted to do a GMO tour...but things change. I can't imagine if I had had to leave my fellow residents and go play on a a ship for several years as they finished their education. In addition, I also couldn't imagine having to take care of adults unsupervised (not only b/c I did a Peds internship but also b/c of only 1 year of training). By the time you finish medical school and internship...hopefully the Navy will have changed their system.

As far as "doing something cool"...I'd take DiveMD's advice

Rotatores
USUHS 2006
PGY-2 Pediatrics