Weighing ranking criteria

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Cool_Whipple

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Unfortunately a top-5, 100% boards pass rate, super-happy residents, powerhouse fellowship match, 40 hours a week, close to my family program doesn't exist. All applicants must attempt to balance their ranking criteria to compare programs.

This is a question for current residents and staff: what factors were most important to you as your built your rank list? Did you realize during/after training that some of these issues were more or less important?

I'm trying to sort out my top 5, but each has very different +/-'s. Right now location and fellowship match is most important to me, but I'm trying to identify if experience would suggest other factors are more important.

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IMHO for most people location should be the lowest on the list.. I also think work hours should be low on your list. Residency is a finite period of your life that you should want to be as complete an experience as possible. Go to a place where you fit and will be well trained. Forget the stuff that doesn't matter.
 
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To be a good surgeon you have to operate. You have to live and breath it. If you aspire to be a technically proficient surgeon, you have to more than do just the required amt of cases to graduate. Any plcae that cannt afford you that opportunity should be low of your list no matter how big and famous they are. No point graduating from a big name prog and u can ****ing operate. That **** is embarrassing.
 
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One problem is that, for me at least, an idealized list of "things that in retrospect I think matter most" is not the same as the list of "things you can actually know ahead of time about each program, and therefore should use to make your rank list." I agree with Southern that resident camraderie is important, its 80 hrs/week for 5 years, or more, which is a long ****ing time to spend with people you hate, and honestly flies by when working with people you enjoy. But I think you will have a very hard time assessing this for most of your programs, and there will be lots of false positives, so its hard to consider this important in a rank list. To some extent, operative experience is the same way. Its crucially important, but most programs represent their numbers in very misleading ways, and "total case # for each chief" is pretty misleading. Autonomy, variety, complexity, these all matter and are hard to get a handle on.

So with that all said, if I had to do it all over again, I think I'd actually rank name/prestige as a pretty major factor. Mostly just because you can pretty accurately assess it ahead of time, and because it may open a few doors down the road for you depending on what you decide to do. Places that have well-known surgeons, good mentors, good research opportunities and a good fellowship track record are probably the most USEFUL things to guide your rank list, even if they arent truly the most IMPORTANT things to ensure a quality residency experience.
 
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The problem you'll find is that everyone thinks (or at least will tell you) their operative experience is excellent. I only went to one program where residents expressed doubt about their operative autonomy/experience. Needless to say that program was ranked last, but in terms of ranking most programs it was tough to judge.
 
The problem you'll find is that everyone thinks (or at least will tell you) their operative experience is excellent. I only went to one program where residents expressed doubt about their operative autonomy/experience. Needless to say that program was ranked last, but in terms of ranking most programs it was tough to judge.

I think that you can figure that out indirectly pretty well. When you ask a PGY3, what did you do this week? You can figure pretty easily what is what. Nobody will ever say, "ya, our volume sucks." But, if I tell you, "I have on average 3 residents and 4 fellows on our service and we have cases going uncovered", you bet your ass we are up to our eyeballs in volume compared to other places.
 
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Unfortunately a top-5, 100% boards pass rate, super-happy residents, powerhouse fellowship match, 40 hours a week, close to my family program doesn't exist. All applicants must attempt to balance their ranking criteria to compare programs.

This is a question for current residents and staff: what factors were most important to you as your built your rank list? Did you realize during/after training that some of these issues were more or less important?

I'm trying to sort out my top 5, but each has very different +/-'s. Right now location and fellowship match is most important to me, but I'm trying to identify if experience would suggest other factors are more important.


My priorities now are probably different than they were 10 years ago, but here you go (note these are not in order):

1. Operative experience: numbers, breadth of cases, and different learning environments (including a VA and a community hospital if you choose an ivory tower program). A nice gauge is the number of TA cases that the chiefs get.

2. Board pass rates, available on the ABS website. You can't be a surgeon if you can't pass your boards.

3. Fellowship match rates, including a history of matching people into your subspecialty of interest

4. Geography. I thought it didn't matter when I went through, but 5 years is a long time to spend in a city that is difficult/expensive/time consuming to leave when you want to see family and friends. In addition, if you are married, you need to choose somewhere your spouse can tolerate for 5-7 years.

5. Resident camaraderie. If you hear residents talking crap about eachother or the attendings, remember that they are on their best behavior in front of you. Things will only be worse when you get there.

6. BALANCE of experience. You don't want to trains somewhere with a very lopsided caseload or patient population. You need to treat insured and uninsured, first crack and reoperative, complex and straightforward, etc. If you go somewhere and do 5 whipples a week, but never do an inguinal hernia, you will be lost. Some places are too heavy in vascular, or possibly too heavy in the reop-reop-reop game. You want everything to be balanced.....some graduates should go into high-powered fellowships, but others should be going into general surgery practice...some rural, some urban...you want attendings that trained at multiple institutions so you'll have several unique perspectives and approaches to the same problems. You want a nice lifestyle, but not TOO nice (you want to work hard and earn it)....you want hard call nights, and easy call nights. I cannot stress enough how important it is to have balance.

7. You don't want to be on the front or the back end of any concept....shouldn't be the first or last program to adopt robotics, or simulation, or SCORE, or whatever.

8. If you are a competitive applicant, you should never rank a new/emerging program high. Sure, they may be great, but they are unproven. You don't want to be the guinea pig for your surgical education.

9. You should avoid places where they complain constantly about work hour rules, etc. Yes, we are all frustrated by the limitations of current surgical education, but the strong programs will focus on how to adjust and evolve, and keep the resident experience high yield, while those that are simply butt-hurt and fixated on the unfairness of the situation will not survive the winter.


Good luck!
 
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I think that you can figure that out indirectly pretty well. When you ask a PGY3, what did you do this week? You can figure pretty easily what is what. Nobody will ever say, "ya, our volume sucks." But, if I tell you, "I have on average 3 residents and 4 fellows on our service and we have cases going uncovered", you bet your ass we are up to our eyeballs in volume compared to other places.

Thats a pretty sophisticated question that no med student has ever asked me, but yeah ok, as long as you get routinely honest answers to that question, you can maybe begin to slowly suss out which programs have good operative volume.

That is unless the PGY3 you happened to ask just happened to be having a pretty slow week.

Or worse yet, the PGY3 you happened to ask just happened to be having a pretty busy week.
 
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