West Virginia program cuts

[The Cinnabon]

West Virginia University Slashes Majors and Cuts Staff Despite Protests

The West Virginia University Board of Governors voted to cut 28 academic programs and eliminate 143 faculty jobs in favor of what they say is a necessary step toward financial viability.

www.wsj.com

Just want to get faculty perspectives. Do these sort of things worry you, or do you find clinical/counseling psych is shielded, as a field? I ask mainly because I have research career aspirations.

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[Ollie123]

Have friends who graduated from WVU and on faculty there, so this is something I've been following. Psych has not been subject to position cuts, but they are impacted. Resources there are....already not abundant...and being further stripped away. Forget about buying out of teaching, etc.

There are lots of reasons not to go into academia, but I wouldn't let this deter you if you are otherwise committed. Psych is almost invariably one of the largest majors, which helps (drives tuition dollars). You'll notice it is (usually) smaller departments that get cut. We have strong potential for extramural funding so deans generally like us. We don't require the physical infrastructure of basic sciences so we're cheaper. My needs are very "expensive" for a psychologist, but I could still deck out a new lab from scratch VERY nicely for < 250k as long as I had scanner access elsewhere and didn't need any major remodeling done. Relative to a basic scientist who might need a few million dropped on lab equipment....that's nothing. You have far more options for hybrid positions where a portion of your salary is covered by some other entity. You have more flexibility in what department you work in than many fields (e.g., I personally know psychologists working in biostats, public health, anthropology, engineering, neuroscience, nursing and basically every department within medicine). Humanities is going to get eaten long before they come for us. It doesn't mean we aren't impacted, but I don't see psychology departments ceasing to exist anytime soon.

That said, I do think this impacts approach. I would be nervous taking a position at a low-tier regional largely-teaching-focused college right now unless I was geographically flexible or had another backup plan. I would do a deep dive on university financials before accepting a job. I quizzed the equivalent of the dean on our financial health before accepting my current role (bit easier since we are a state institution so much info is public). While it obviously needs to be done delicately, I actually think higher-ups view it positively when faculty (esp junior faculty) are aware of and thinking about financial issues. It demonstrates a recognition of the big picture, that they are pragmatic and (probably) more likely to be a team player. At least relative to the faculty whose department consistently runs in the red already, has rapidly declining enrollment, has absolutely no awareness of any of this and demands xyz immediately, etc.

 

[Sanman]

Have friends who graduated from WVU and on faculty there, so this is something I've been following. Psych has not been subject to position cuts, but they are impacted. Resources there are....already not abundant...and being further stripped away. Forget about buying out of teaching, etc.

There are lots of reasons not to go into academia, but I wouldn't let this deter you if you are otherwise committed. Psych is almost invariably one of the largest majors, which helps (drives tuition dollars). You'll notice it is (usually) smaller departments that get cut. We have strong potential for extramural funding so deans generally like us. We don't require the physical infrastructure of basic sciences so we're cheaper. My needs are very "expensive" for a psychologist, but I could still deck out a new lab from scratch VERY nicely for < 250k as long as I had scanner access elsewhere and didn't need any major remodeling done. Relative to a basic scientist who might need a few million dropped on lab equipment....that's nothing. You have far more options for hybrid positions where a portion of your salary is covered by some other entity. You have more flexibility in what department you work in than many fields (e.g., I personally know psychologists working in biostats, public health, anthropology, engineering, neuroscience, nursing and basically every department within medicine). Humanities is going to get eaten long before they come for us. It doesn't mean we aren't impacted, but I don't see psychology departments ceasing to exist anytime soon.

That said, I do think this impacts approach. I would be nervous taking a position at a low-tier regional largely-teaching-focused college right now unless I was geographically flexible or had another backup plan. I would do a deep dive on university financials before accepting a job. I quizzed the equivalent of the dean on our financial health before accepting my current role (bit easier since we are a state institution so much info is public). While it obviously needs to be done delicately, I actually think higher-ups view it positively when faculty (esp junior faculty) are aware of and thinking about financial issues. It demonstrates a recognition of the big picture, that they are pragmatic and (probably) more likely to be a team player. At least relative to the faculty whose department consistently runs in the red already, has rapidly declining enrollment, has absolutely no awareness of any of this and demands xyz immediately, etc.

While @Ollie123 provided the most comprehensive answer I will agree. I too know some grads and faculty there. I am glad the program is safe at the moment.

The popularity of psychology as an undergrad major certainly helps to insulate us from the chopping block. Grad students can also work in the counseling center as well as teach classes. That said, I agree that smaller institutions will continue to struggle.

 

[futureapppsy2]

Faculty member at an R1 here, previously worked at a public masters college. I'd say this is a concern, especially in states and at institutions with declining enrollments--I've seen psych departments get cuts at those institutions. IMO, the bigger concern is states rolling back free speech and tenure protections--if you can be fired for saying something the governor/Board of Trustees doesn't like, you can't say anything, and you have no stability of employment at all. IMO, academia is 100% not worth it--and I'm saying that as someone at an R1, with tenure, who had a strong enough CV to sail through the tenure process multiple years early.

 

[PsyDr]

I HATE to say this.

I think the Republican love of Jordan Peterson might specifically protect psychology departments from budget cuts.

 

[The Cinnabon]

Faculty member at an R1 here, previously worked at a public masters college. I'd say this is a concern, especially in states and at institutions with declining enrollments--I've seen psych departments get cuts at those institutions. IMO, the bigger concern is states rolling back free speech and tenure protections--if you can be fired for saying something the governor/Board of Trustees doesn't like, you can't say anything, and you have no stability of employment at all. IMO, academia is 100% not worth it--and I'm saying that as someone at an R1, with tenure, who had a strong enough CV to sail through the tenure process multiple years early.

Yeah, it seems like a traditional academic gig may not be the plan. Especially given that it does seem like you can have a solid research career at other institutions that seem to be facing fewer problems.

 

[futureapppsy2]

Yeah, it seems like a traditional academic gig may not be the plan. Especially given that it does seem like you can have a solid research career at other institutions that seem to be facing fewer problems.

FYI, in my experience, working in pure soft money roles is even more stressful, because if it don't have funding, you don't have a job--this may be mitigated if you are okay doing heavy clinical work, and you work in a place that allows clinical work to substitute for shortfalls in grant funding.

 

[MCParent]

FYI, in my experience, working in pure soft money roles is even more stressful, because if it don't have funding, you don't have a job--this may be mitigated if you are okay doing heavy clinical work, and you work in a place that allows clinical work to substitute for shortfalls in grant funding.

Soft money to do anything related to diversity seems like it would be a nightmare rn. Or maybe even proven but politically unpopular things like harm reduction (see https://www.npr.org/2023/07/26/1190...nded and,the probe "blatantly inappropriate.")

 

[The Cinnabon]

FYI, in my experience, working in pure soft money roles is even more stressful, because if it don't have funding, you don't have a job--this may be mitigated if you are okay doing heavy clinical work, and you work in a place that allows clinical work to substitute for shortfalls in grant funding.

What institutions allow for substitutes?


My current PI does an 80/20 (in favor of clinical work) split right now and they do seem much happier/secure than most of the research heavy hitters I know. Having said that I am at a VAMC right now so I imagine that adds extra, VA specific, caveats.

 

[Ollie123]

Faculty member at an R1 here, previously worked at a public masters college. I'd say this is a concern, especially in states and at institutions with declining enrollments--I've seen psych departments get cuts at those institutions. IMO, the bigger concern is states rolling back free speech and tenure protections--if you can be fired for saying something the governor/Board of Trustees doesn't like, you can't say anything, and you have no stability of employment at all. IMO, academia is 100% not worth it--and I'm saying that as someone at an R1, with tenure, who had a strong enough CV to sail through the tenure process multiple years early.

This is an excellent point, but does depend on what specifically you do. Disparities-focused work for someone who has family ties and really wants to be in FL? Yeah, I'd be nervous. Effects of antidepressants on striatal-PFC connectivity? Some existential worry about the future of academia is appropriate, but no need to panic.

Some of my work has a disparities angle, but I'm going to be pretty damn far down to the list of targets if anyone even picked up on it. I don't like the broader implications it has for the field and where this is leading, but its not something I (personally) lose sleep over with regards to what it means for my career. Of course, this is happening in the context of a broader war on education so those blanket budget cuts could still be felt.

RE: what institutions allow substitutions - there isn't a list somewhere. <Most> medical schools will have some kind of option for this. A lot will depend on your particular position, what department you are hired in, etc. Sometimes the salaries differ between the two as well depending on how its structured, so moving from an 80/20 split to a 50/50 split would not necessarily yield the same salary. At least at places I've been this is minimally impactful at the Assistant Prof level, but the higher you climb as a researcher the more it would "hurt" to pick up more clinical time. Its usually the opposite for MDs, who often have to be willing to take a financial hit to do research.