What Are Your Thoughts on Prescribing Stimulants for newly diagnosed ADHD adults?

This forum made possible through the generous support of SDN members, donors, and sponsors. Thank you.

Blitz2006

Full Member
15+ Year Member
Joined
Nov 20, 2006
Messages
1,599
Reaction score
390
I'm starting a new outpatient job this week.

Haven't done outpatient in a bit, was wondering what your thoughts are with :

1. Diagnosing ADHD in adults >21?
2. And prescribing stimulants (such as Adderall IR or Ritalin)?

And if you do prescribe stimulants, what should I do to be comprehensive?

1. Neuropsych testing?
2. What screening tests should I use? CAT-A? TOVA testing?
3. Should I get UDS on initial visit? And if so, how often do you do UDS on patients Rx stimulants?

Any information/advice appreciated, as I didn't have much experience with ADHD patients in the past, so want to be prepared if I come across these patients in outpatient!

Members don't see this ad.
 
ADHD is a clinical diagnosis first and foremost, and no screening tests, nor neuropsych testing is needed.

I require UDS testing for all my patients on a first visit, whatever their chief complaint. Most don't...
I require UDS testing for routine stimulant prescribing, each office visit. Most don't...
I do two ADHD focused questionnaires to supplement my history, not guide it. Most do some sort of questionnaires...
I make ADD diagnoses in adults, if reports of childhood also reflect symptomology, too. Most do?

"new onset" adult ADHD gets far greater scrutiny, depression, anxiety, OSA, SUDs, etc, etc, etc. And even then may still get a neuropsych testing referral to further clarify symptoms and 'why now?'
 
  • Like
Reactions: 7 users
 
  • Like
Reactions: 4 users
Members don't see this ad :)
I think that it is helpful to understand the specific concerns that relate to prescribe a stimulant to an adult, how much of a concern you consider them to be, and then have a strategy for each. I see these as the common issues:

1) You may believe that your patients are entirely honest, but find the phenomenology difficult to disentangle - this is in some ways the lest significant issue, and rating scales and more experience with assessment may be helpful. Neuropsychological testing could include 1) simply administering rating scales that are already available to you anyway (and may not add that much more information than a clinical interview) and 2) assessment of cognitive task performance for attention and executive function. The latter may be helpful in determining whether the patient has the underlying brain-based vulnerabilities that seem to be most common in those who end up with the clinical syndrome of ADHD. Note that many ADHD 'clinics' don't actually assess this and you may need to make sure you request this specifically.

2) You believe that your patient may be exaggerating symptoms - neuropsychological testing may help here, as it can be more obvious when someone is faking poor performance on a cognitive test versus reporting symptoms. Getting to know the patient over a number of visits may be helpful, and likely they will stop coming to see you if create barriers in the form of insisting on more than one or two visits to establish the diagnosis.

3) You believe the patient may intend to sell the medication (+/- exaggerating symptoms) - I don't actually know how one would detect this clinically, but it is clearly extremely common and large groups of young people have admitted to it on surveys. Again, simply being extra thorough may reduce the likelihood that you get a patient like this. Doing a UDS to ensure the patient tests positive for whatever you have prescribed is another way but it is not particularly reliable and I'm not sure it constitutes 'medicine' to do it for this purpose.

4) You believe the patient has a substance use disorder (+/- exaggerating symptoms OR being phenomenologically complex) - if you in general have the belief that people who have a substance use disorder shouldn't be prescribed stimulants, than UDS at some interval can address this concern. You could also assess the patient clinically for evidence of behavioral or physical manifestations of an active substance use disorder. It is of course possible that patients may have clinically significant attentional deficits and do a lot better with stimulants AND have difficulties with active substance use disorders.

I take the order of precedence as being that I first need to be confident that this is something that won't harm the patient. Then I need to believe it will also help the patient. I don't know that I can do much about it if they then also secretly sell some. I don't believe that patients with addictions shouldn't get any medications.

Some basic strategies that I believe allow me to help the most while minimizing risk is that I ONLY prescribe long acting stimulants (there are probably some patients who could do incrementally better if I gave them an afternoon dose of IR but they are suffering for the benefit of the overall practice being safer); I only give 1 month at a time for a fairly long period, I do a detailed assessment, and I try and develop a therapeutic relationship even though these are patients that could technically have very brief visits.
 
  • Like
Reactions: 5 users
I think that it is helpful to understand the specific concerns that relate to prescribe a stimulant to an adult, how much of a concern you consider them to be, and then have a strategy for each. I see these as the common issues:

1) You may believe that your patients are entirely honest, but find the phenomenology difficult to disentangle - this is in some ways the lest significant issue, and rating scales and more experience with assessment may be helpful. Neuropsychological testing could include 1) simply administering rating scales that are already available to you anyway (and may not add that much more information than a clinical interview) and 2) assessment of cognitive task performance for attention and executive function. The latter may be helpful in determining whether the patient has the underlying brain-based vulnerabilities that seem to be most common in those who end up with the clinical syndrome of ADHD. Note that many ADHD 'clinics' don't actually assess this and you may need to make sure you request this specifically.

2) You believe that your patient may be exaggerating symptoms - neuropsychological testing may help here, as it can be more obvious when someone is faking poor performance on a cognitive test versus reporting symptoms. Getting to know the patient over a number of visits may be helpful, and likely they will stop coming to see you if create barriers in the form of insisting on more than one or two visits to establish the diagnosis.

3) You believe the patient may intend to sell the medication (+/- exaggerating symptoms) - I don't actually know how one would detect this clinically, but it is clearly extremely common and large groups of young people have admitted to it on surveys. Again, simply being extra thorough may reduce the likelihood that you get a patient like this. Doing a UDS to ensure the patient tests positive for whatever you have prescribed is another way but it is not particularly reliable and I'm not sure it constitutes 'medicine' to do it for this purpose.

4) You believe the patient has a substance use disorder (+/- exaggerating symptoms OR being phenomenologically complex) - if you in general have the belief that people who have a substance use disorder shouldn't be prescribed stimulants, than UDS at some interval can address this concern. You could also assess the patient clinically for evidence of behavioral or physical manifestations of an active substance use disorder. It is of course possible that patients may have clinically significant attentional deficits and do a lot better with stimulants AND have difficulties with active substance use disorders.

I take the order of precedence as being that I first need to be confident that this is something that won't harm the patient. Then I need to believe it will also help the patient. I don't know that I can do much about it if they then also secretly sell some. I don't believe that patients with addictions shouldn't get any medications.

Some basic strategies that I believe allow me to help the most while minimizing risk is that I ONLY prescribe long acting stimulants (there are probably some patients who could do incrementally better if I gave them an afternoon dose of IR but they are suffering for the benefit of the overall practice being safer); I only give 1 month at a time for a fairly long period, I do a detailed assessment, and I try and develop a therapeutic relationship even though these are patients that could technically have very brief visits.

Thank you for the responses, very helpful and insightful!
 
If I had a magic wand and could do things the way I want for the money I'd want for it then I'd probably plan to do ADHD evaluations over at least 2 hours. That would be for ample time to work through a full comprehensive differential, possibly include elements from structured clinical interviews, and allow time for collateral gathering for patients with more challenging presentations. As it stands, I have to try and do all of that in an hour so I don't tend to get really heavy into doing full structured clinical interviews or collateral gathering unless really necessary.

Really compelling ADHD patients do not require nearly that long. They have ample, affectively congruent, spontaneous, unique, specific examples of the many ways that their life is directly and significantly impacted by their difficulty getting anything done quickly/accurately/completely. They rarely use the words "inattention" and "executive function." They rarely give the exact singular example that 70% of ADHD eval patients have given me, with almost the exact same wording and ordering. "I go to do the laundry but then I realize I need to do the dishes and then..." They tend to be genuinely inattentive, distractible, impulsive, and sometimes even a little hyperactive in the room with you. They don't fire all of your anxiety/avoidant/depressive/amotivated mirror neurons.

I don't go as far as sushi with UDS as far as frequency. All patients get an initial UDS and an annual UDS. I tell patients they can be randomly tested and they have 7 days to complete a random test if it is asked of them. But I only ever randomly test if there's a reason to suspect diversion, misuse, or new undisclosed substance abuse. I also don't go as far as some people w/r/t frequency of f/u visits. I basically use the same timing for stims that I use for most other psych complaints. 6 weeks after med changes, 3 months when things are initially stable, then 6 mo, then annual. I do allow a few steps of dose titration by email or planned between sessions.

I think there is compelling enough evidence for the utility of bupropion and atomoxetine that I very frequently suggest starting there. I try to emphasize the importance of behavioral interventions but I don't require starting there like some people do. If I had the aforementioned magic wand, I probably would.
 
  • Like
Reactions: 1 user
What are the logistics for obtaining a UDS in PP? Or, do you send them to a lab with a script?
 
What are the logistics for obtaining a UDS in PP? Or, do you send them to a lab with a script?
Sushi has a setup for UDS in his office, has the CLIA certification and all that. It's sort of necessary if you're doing it that often. Sending someone to Quest or Labcorp means it's a lot less likely to get done in a timely manner, just like any lab requests. Sending someone with an order to an outside lab is what I and most of the psychiatrists I know personally do. I'm pretty sure Sushi just does a dipstick (or maybe his office manager does it?) so he has the results ready during the encounter instead of chasing people down after the fact.

Getting the certification for having UDS in your own office isn't usually too big of a headache, other than submitting some forms, making sure your office has the physical setup required (sink, toilet, etc), and having staff willing/able to handle someone else's urine. Having this type of in-office lab is generally not a concern for Stark/self-referral/anti-kickback laws. As long as you're ordering the UDS within reason you can bill for it (some states have maximum annual UDS billing limits, so don't overdo it). While urine levels aren't as useful for monitoring therapeutic levels, it can be a nice alternative to serum detection when you're trying to make sure someone's at least taking any of the meds you want them to take, but if you're going beyond simple dipstick you would need to send the sample somewhere. Generally not worth it to have a more specific test related to your office.
 
  • Like
Reactions: 2 users
What are the logistics for obtaining a UDS in PP? Or, do you send them to a lab with a script?
I send them to a lab and have e-lab integration to send the order electronically.
 
  • Like
Reactions: 1 user
Top