What do I tell this kid?

[startswithb]

Hello everyone. My boss (PhD researcher) just had our college student volunteer ask him for a letter of recommendation to apply to MD/PhD programs. Here is what I know about his resume:

-4.0 from a rural community college and extremely small rural private college
-Low 20s MCAT (not sure the exact score, but below 25)
-NO research experience. He just started coming into our lab a few months ago, and he either fills our tip boxes, does dishes, or observes
-Some healthcare related community service (Red Cross, I think)

He is also under the impression that receiving secondaries is a sign that things are going well. He is also planning on submitting things at the deadline (sometime in December).

Obviously, he is so far lost that I don't know where to begin. Any advice? I am not very familiar with what MD/PhD programs are like or what they look for in applicants. What should I do to help?

Thanks!

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[Caristra]

You might want to point him in the direction of some of the great resources there are online for learning about MD-PhD or even just MD admissions. I went to a college with very limited pre-med resources and those sites helped me from becoming like the guy you are talking about. It might not be too late for him to turn things around for the next cycle.

Feel free to PM for a list of my favorite websites. The AAMC has a great website.

Whatever you do, be nice. Don't tell him it is impossible. Tell him he needs to work on a few things before it becomes possible.

 

[Xcited392]

Yes, be honest, but nice about it.

Is he going to work in your lab till the end of the semester or till the end of the school year? If it's the former, don't worry about hard feelings since he'll be leaving soon...

A part of me thinks that you shouldn't offer your opinion/advice until he asks for it. However, you could just start a casual conversation like, "How are your applications going?" And then proceed.

 

[QofQuimica]

Did this kid specifically ask you for advice? If not, you should mind your own business. Having many years of experience as a mentor, I can tell you that unsolicited advice is unlikely to be received in the spirit with which it was given--especially considering that you're only a premed yourself, and especially since you admit to not knowing very much about the MD/PhD admissions process. Not that it isn't unpleasant to watch someone make what you know is obviously a big mistake, but you can't do much to help a person who doesn't think that he needs help, which it sounds like this guy doesn't from what you've said.

If the kid did ask you for advice, then you should point him to some good resources. Presumably your school has a premed counselor, and even though many of them are not particularly helpful, it's probably a good idea to send him to that person anyway since a lot of schools use composite LORs. You can also tell him about online resources like Caristra suggested, including SDN. I also agree that you should not tell him that getting into an MD/PhD program is impossible. That's the program adcom's job to decide, not ours.

Hope this helps.

 

[jckut10]

.

 

[Neuronix]

I also agree that you should not tell him that getting into an MD/PhD program is impossible. That's the program adcom's job to decide, not ours.

I disagree. Send him to me and I'll tell him

Edit: Strongly agree with the post below me.

 

[runner125]

I agree with a couple of the previous posters that perhaps this is technically none of your business. But as someone who is currently applying and interviewing, I'd say it's risky and stressful enough to apply with stats around the average for these programs. The application process requires a lot of money and time (I've spent $4,000+ in application fees and travel expenses so far). If at all possible, I think it would be the compassionate thing to do to dissuade this guy from applying, until he can get some more solid research experience and improve his score a bit.

This isn't really your responsibility at all, but it's clear he hasn't consulted a pre-med advisor or MSAR or any other resources that would give him a realistic view of the application process. So even if all you can do is point him in the direction of some stats, that would probably be very helpful.

Here's a link to some stats I found helpful while applying:
https://www.aamc.org/data/facts/enrollmentgraduate/

 

[startswithb]

Thanks for the responses. No, he didn't ask for my advice (yet), but my boss asked me for advice since I am in the thick of the application process myself (interviewing) and have a lot of knowledge on the subject from my own past mistakes. He is going to try to write the LOR for him, and then mention that he can come to me if he has any questions since I have been through the MCAT and application process myself. I just wanted to be prepared to not give him advice on his chances per se but to at least get him started on doing his own research. I was planning on giving him some links such as the ones you have posted. Thank you for those.

As far as his pre-med advisor, well, I know he has an advisor because he came with him to tour our lab. The problem is, this school does not have great success in getting people into medical schools because its extremely limited resources. It's a local school, so I am familiar with it.

 

[Neuronix]

As far as his pre-med advisor, well, I know he has an advisor because he came with him to tour our lab. The problem is, this school does not have great success in getting people into medical schools because its extremely limited resources. It's a local school, so I am familiar with it.

Even good pre-med advisors often have little to no experience with MD/PhD programs. It's not at all surprising if this person is doing incorrect things even under advice. If an applicant ONLY had three websites to apply to MD/PhD with, they should be:

http://www.mdphds.org/
http://www.aamc.org/students/considering/research/mdphd/
http://forums.studentdoctor.net/forumdisplay.php?f=32 (especially: http://forums.studentdoctor.net/showthread.php?t=539268)

 

[Shifty B]

Even good pre-med advisors often have little to no experience with MD/PhD programs.

It's true. I went to a large state school and the advice I got ranged from useless to mediocre. It was pretty clear that the advisor I spoke to was not even aware of the existence of these programs, let alone the credentials needed.

Strangely, for this process, web sites may offer you some of the best available information if you are able to sort through the crap.

 

[Desperad0oo7]

just let him revel in his ignorance. he is never going to get into medical school with that MCAT, let alone MD-PhD.

 

[tortuga87]

I would personally provide him with the information, so he doesn't have to waste the big bucks & emotional energy involved in the process... A link to SDN, some AMCAS statistics, etc.

 

[gstrub]

just let him revel in his ignorance. he is never going to get into medical school with that MCAT, let alone MD-PhD.

Seen it happen. URM usually, but it happens.