What is more important GPA or MCAT

[TexasFool]

Will they forgive a low GPA or a low MCAT more?

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[Turkeyman]

It seems that a high GPA with a lower MCAT is usually more favored than a high MCAT with an equally low GPA...pretty sure about that.

 

[gluon999]

It seems that a high GPA with a lower MCAT is usually more favored than a high MCAT with an equally low GPA...pretty sure about that.

Isn't the MCAT the great equalizer. GPA can be highly inflated, especially at some of the Ivy institutions.

 

[anystream]

Isn't the MCAT the great equalizer. GPA can be highly inflated, especially at some of the Ivy institutions.

you get a high GPA by doing well over a long period of time...the MCAT is based off one test day, and you can retake if you don't do well.

I'm of the opinion that they're both pretty important. one can be a bit lower than the average, but you still have to be within a certain range.

 

[TexasFool]

What if you have a high GPA from a low quality school like UTSA?

Anyone else from UTSA here?

 

[gujuDoc]

A low GPA with a higher MCAT is better then the reverse because you can always bring up GPA through postbac programs, master's programs, doing another degree etc. Plus you have to look at whether there are trends of increasing grades or whether or not people had someting like a 3.0 due to starting high and then going down. Or you also have to take into account someone with B's the whole time they are there and a 3.0 is different then someone who just returned to school after several years but had a 2.5 overall in their hay day and then got a 4.0 later on after several years, but still having a 3.0 overall.

But if someone has a 35, that is a better equalizer to show that they do have potential, etc.

 

[murphomatic]

A low GPA with a higher MCAT is better then the reverse because you can always bring up GPA through postbac programs, master's programs, doing another degree etc. Plus you have to look at whether there are trends of increasing grades or whether or not people had someting like a 3.0 due to starting high and then going down. Or you also have to take into account someone with B's the whole time they are there and a 3.0 is different then someone who just returned to school after several years but had a 2.5 overall in their hay day and then got a 4.0 later on after several years, but still having a 3.0 overall.

But if someone has a 35, that is a better equalizer to show that they do have potential, etc.

man i hope you right, else i'm screwed

 

[ForbiddenComma]

Opinion on this is fairly split. High-GPA people will say that the GPA should be weighted more; the high-MCAT people will say that the MCAT should be weighted more.

From personal experience as a low GPA, high MCAT applicant, some schools dropped my file like a hot potato once they saw that GPA. For these institutions, not even a 45 MCAT will save your behind. Sometimes it's a hard "floor" (typically 3.5) where anything below is auto-rejected by the computer.

Private schools will be more receptive of a low-GPA, high-MCAT student (in general!), as they are not bound by state-mandated GPA floors. The exception of course is your in-state public school, unless you are in California. If you have low grades, an upward trend ("I had a lousy freshman year!") and/or good postbacc grades might be enough to earn forgiveness from the adcoms.

 

[Avalanche21]

A low GPA with a higher MCAT is better then the reverse because you can always bring up GPA through postbac programs, master's programs, doing another degree etc. Plus you have to look at whether there are trends of increasing grades or whether or not people had someting like a 3.0 due to starting high and then going down. Or you also have to take into account someone with B's the whole time they are there and a 3.0 is different then someone who just returned to school after several years but had a 2.5 overall in their hay day and then got a 4.0 later on after several years, but still having a 3.0 overall.

But if someone has a 35, that is a better equalizer to show that they do have potential, etc.

I don't think that's necessarily true. I would say it depends on the school. Some people I know with Ph.Ds who were told that the committee would need to take a close look at their undergraduate record (I mean, isn't Ph.D more important and more indicative of recent performance?).

 

[greendot]

From personal experience as a low GPA, high MCAT applicant, some schools dropped my file like a hot potato once they saw that GPA. For these institutions, not even a 45 MCAT will save your behind. Sometimes it's a hard "floor" (typically 3.5) where anything below is auto-rejected by the computer.QUOTE]

A 3.5 "hard floor" seems a bit high. Isn't 3.5 about the average gpa of accepted med students throughout the country?

 

[TexasFool]

I got a 35+ on my MCAT and a 4.0 in post bac, but my GPA was less at the college where I got my degree. There's an up trend but there was one semester where I did pretty bad because I played rugby and had a spinal injury.

 

[Mixtli]

I work next to a kid who got a 38R (11, 13, 14) who got rejected from all the schools he applied to. He was a bio major, his GPA was a 3.0. I think the major reason he got rejections was because he got lots of failing grades in undergrad. He applied 3 times in a row, getting 36 and 37 on his 2nd and 3rd time to renew his scores, yet he still got rejected everywhere.

A good MCAT will pull you up, unless you have been consistently failing.

 

[SanDiegoSOD]

"The MCAT won't get you in, it will just keep you out." - Anonymous ADCOM member

 

[CTG]

"The MCAT won't get you in, it will just keep you out." - Anonymous ADCOM member

Based on my experience, this is the truth!!!

 

[gujuDoc]

"The MCAT won't get you in, it will just keep you out." - Anonymous ADCOM member

Hence why the MCAT is a tad bit more important then the GPA!!!!!!!! This is actually the point I was driving at.

See the thing is, you can repair a bad GPA. No you won't ever be able to make it a 4.0 overall again. But if you are really really truly dedicated, then you can bring it up by doing few years of postbac or Special Master's programs. People who do this and get a high MCAT score with higher trends of postbac or master's education often get a chance to get in somewhere.

People who get a high GPA but can never even pull in the early 20's will probably never get into med school because their GPA's validity will be called into question.

However, if you have something like 27 or above and a high GPA, then I think you'll still be getting in somewhere.

But if your situation is 3.0 and you have a 37, then you should be able to get into a state school if that 3.0 showed upward trends. If it doesn't get you in the first time, then realize there are SMP programs to show how competitive you are and you are almost a sure shot for one with a 3.0 and 40 MCAT.

And if you do real well in that you most likely will have a 85% chance of getting in somewhere. It might not be your top choice school, and a person with a 3.8 and 31 may still have a better chance and more choices in where they decide to go to school then a 3.0 and a 40 MCAT person. Nonetheless, you'll still get in somewhere.

But if you compare a person with a 3.0 and 40 to a person with a 3.9 and 21 who could never get higher then a 21 (provided ECs LOR quality, etc is the same), then it is going to be the person with a slightly lesser GPA but who showed increasing grades in trends who gets in, because they met the MCAT cutoff and showed that the GPA may be low for other reasons besides intelligence.

If you are a 3.0 and 38 vs. 3.9 and 31 (again provided everything else is the same including both candidates with equally good interviews)

Then most likely the 3.9 and 31 MCAT will get in over the 3.0 and 38 MCAT.

That's usually how it works.

That said, for those of you with high MCAT scores and low GPAs, just do the best you can to make it through the process. If you don't have luck this time, then there is always ways to show that you can make your GPAs higher. Consider SMP programs, they'll give you a good chance to increasing your odds of getting in med schools. Formal postbac programs or informal postbac programs are also an option if you don't succeed this time around. But apply to a lot of schools and be as honest as possible in talking about what may have accounted for your low gpas. Good luck.

For those of you with high GPAs and low MCATs. The best I can tell you is to try and reassess where you went wrong the first time and focus on those weaknesses while you only brush up on the stronger points.

If it is issues with timing or strategy then focus on that. If it issues with the material itself, then study the things you are weakest in and do practice in those specific topics.

That's all.

 

[gujuDoc]

I work next to a kid who got a 38R (11, 13, 14) who got rejected from all the schools he applied to. He was a bio major, his GPA was a 3.0. I think the major reason he got rejections was because he got lots of failing grades in undergrad. He applied 3 times in a row, getting 36 and 37 on his 2nd and 3rd time to renew his scores, yet he still got rejected everywhere.

A good MCAT will pull you up, unless you have been consistently failing.

Did he do any SMP programs??????? Did he do any postbac programs in general?? Or Master's programs???

If this was Florida, if you show a strong trend of increasing grades and postbac work, they'll over look it when you get higher grades in postbac work or master's level science work as long as you also do well on the MCAT.

At least that has been the case at USF and Umiami, from what I've seen.

 

[gujuDoc]

I don't think that's necessarily true. I would say it depends on the school. Some people I know with Ph.Ds who were told that the committee would need to take a close look at their undergraduate record (I mean, isn't Ph.D more important and more indicative of recent performance?).

That's because PhD work does not require much actual course work. You spend 98% of your time in PhD school doing your actual research projects etc that go towards your dissertation. Only maybe about 1-2% of the time do you take classes. Often times the classes you take are classes that your advisor asks you to take, and then there are few classes which you may take if you wish but are not required.

So there are not really that many actual grades from lecture courses in grad school. This is what I've been told by those who I do research with.

Most of their time they are teaching or doing their dissertation project. I think they only needed like 12 credit hours of actual course work.

That said, for a person with your sort of stats, I wouldn't say one outlooks the other. But for the person with a 4.0 and 21 vs. the person with a 3.0 and 38, I'd be willing to bet anything that they would take the latter as long as the latter person had shown a positive trend through postbac work, master's degree work, etc.

Now if the person with a 21 retook the test and got a higher score, then it would be a different story.

But read below what SandiegoSOD said. He put it beautifully. The MCAT does not guarantee admissions. However, it can prevent it in the most dreaded ways and is what has been the reason why many friends have ended up having to go to the Carribbean in the past. Although, thankfully, despite MCAT issues...............

many of my friends were able to get in this year.........at an American school.

 

[Dr.Pdizzle]

But for the person with a 4.0 and 21 vs. the person with a 3.0 and 38, I'd be willing to bet anything that they would take the latter as long as the latter person had shown a positive trend through postbac work, master's degree work, etc.

I take issue with your example. I don't know the exact statistics of it, but I can't imagine either case you are describing is all that common. If you 4.0 your way through undergrad chances are you are bright enough to do well on the MCAT, regardless of where you went to college/grade inflation/whatever.

Now the lower gpa with a high mcat is somewhat believable, for a lack of effort and what not, but even in that case I find it hard to believe that someone who is pulling a 3.0 cumulative average in college can pull those kind of mcat scores. Sure, there are exceptions to this, but I don't think the scenario you paint for us is all that common. If anyone has any statistics that proves otherwise than I will stand corrected and eat some crow

Point? I wouldn't be pleased with either situation and would consider myself in some ****. Get yourself a good gpa and a good mcat score and end all the controversy.

 

[MoosePilot]

I take issue with your example. I don't know the exact statistics of it, but I can't imagine either case you are describing is all that common. If you 4.0 your way through undergrad chances are you are bright enough to do well on the MCAT, regardless of where you went to college/grade inflation/whatever.

Now the lower gpa with a high mcat is somewhat believable, for a lack of effort and what not, but even in that case I find it hard to believe that someone who is pulling a 3.0 cumulative average in college can pull those kind of mcat scores. Sure, there are exceptions to this, but I don't think the scenario you paint for us is all that common. If anyone has any statistics that proves otherwise than I will stand corrected and eat some crow

Point? I wouldn't be pleased with either situation and would consider myself in some ****. Get yourself a good gpa and a good mcat score and end all the controversy.

2.88 sci/36 MCAT

I've heard of people that have a 4.0 and did poorly on the MCAT, but I can't point to any without research.

 

[gujuDoc]

I take issue with your example. I don't know the exact statistics of it, but I can't imagine either case you are describing is all that common. If you 4.0 your way through undergrad chances are you are bright enough to do well on the MCAT, regardless of where you went to college/grade inflation/whatever.

Now the lower gpa with a high mcat is somewhat believable, for a lack of effort and what not, but even in that case I find it hard to believe that someone who is pulling a 3.0 cumulative average in college can pull those kind of mcat scores. Sure, there are exceptions to this, but I don't think the scenario you paint for us is all that common. If anyone has any statistics that proves otherwise than I will stand corrected and eat some crow

Point? I wouldn't be pleased with either situation and would consider myself in some ****. Get yourself a good gpa and a good mcat score and end all the controversy.

Because I've seen it happen before. This guy I knew took the MCAT twice and got a 23 and 21 respectively. He had a 3.9 GPA overall and BCPM. I kid you not.

I've seen it happen to a few other people too. GPA is very subjective based on school and level of difficulty of teachers. It is also subjective because of differences in grade inflation vs. deflation and +/- vs. no plus minus scales etc.

So yes, believe it or not, it has happened.

GPA and MCAT don't have a super strong correlation as you would like to believe it does.

For the same reason there are some people who don't study much and get a good MCAT score but low GPA, there are people who do get good grades but don't do well on the MCAT. I have plenty of friends with 3.6-3.9 GPAs who were barely able to get into the mid 20's. Some of the 3.6 GPA people I know are barely able to pull their diag scores out of the teens and into the 20's.

So yes it does happen as hard as it is to believe it. I didn't want to believe that it would be true either. I had a good friend that had a 3.8 GPA. His MCAT score was no better then my initial MCAT score from the first time I took it (18-19 range). I've heard of other stories like this too.

So, yes, it is possible to have a 3.8-4.0 and fail the MCAT because the MCAT is a typical standardized test that requires part knowledge, part test taking skills, part timed test taking skills to be exact.

 

[gujuDoc]

Point? I wouldn't be pleased with either situation and would consider myself in some ****. Get yourself a good gpa and a good mcat score and end all the controversy.

No the point is that some people can't change their past. But what they can do is do everything to rectify the mistakes of their youthful past and do everything in their living power to increase their chances of acceptance.

And the point is that the MCAT carries slightly bit more weight then GPA.

But for those of you freshmen, of course keeping both high is better. I already stated that above when I said that a 3.8 and 31 MCAT is probably more likely to have an easier time then a 3.0 and 37. But that a 3.8 and 19 will have a much harder time then a 3.2 and 37. Just giving you some perspective.

 

[Centinel]

Isn't the MCAT the great equalizer. GPA can be highly inflated, especially at some of the Ivy institutions.

I'm sorry, the verb you were looking for is 'deflated'. Better luck next time!

 

[gujuDoc]

I'm sorry, the verb you were looking for is 'deflated'. Better luck next time!

Actually, I think he said inflation because there have actually been news reports in the past about Harvard using grade inflation. You can do a search on it on yahoo or google. But really this does not need to turn into another argument about inflation or deflation of GPAs. The point is the MCAT carries a bit more weight then the GPA does. But both are important in their own right.

 

[de_la_soul]

I say the MCAT should be abolished. it is the bane of my existence.

 

[Centinel]

Actually, I think he said inflation because there have actually been news reports in the past about Harvard using grade inflation. You can do a search on it on yahoo or google. But really this does not need to turn into another argument about inflation or deflation of GPAs. The point is the MCAT carries a bit more weight then the GPA does. But both are important in their own right.

1) Sorry, my attempt at humor apparently failed. Continuing with the seriousness, then: Harvard is not 'the Ivies'.

2) I think that everyone's analysis of MCAT scores and GPAs in this thread is close but a bit off the mark (although I am not on any committee, of course). The MCAT is probably more of a multiplier; something which gives meaning to the GPA.

I.e., what does a 4.0 GPA mean coming from that diploma factory in Cambridge, Mass.? Well, if the kid also got a 34 on her MCAT, I'd say that 4.0 is just fine.

What does a 3.5 GPA coming from State U mean? If this person got a 43, then I'll be interested to look over the student's courses. Given the difficulty of their courses, that 3.5 might actually be pretty impressive. Maybe this student took extremely rigorous courses, bumping down the GPA but giving the thorough scientific understanding (coupled, of course, with a knack for test-taking) necessary for a high MCAT score.

The MCAT is an achievement test, not an aptitude test; it is useful in comparing (to some extent) the knowledge of students from different schools (and even different courses of study within the same school) where a given GPA can have different meanings.

 

[dajimmers]

It seems to me that, in general, it is easier to rectify an MCAT score than to rectify a GPA. A <3.0 undergrad GPA carries 120+ credits with it, and even 120 post-bac credits (four more years!!!) can only boost that to <3.5. Most people in a low-MCAT situation should be able to take an MCAT course or even three for far less $$ than post-bac, and in less time than a post-bac, and then turn their score around.

No experience to back this up, just seems easier to correct a 6-month mistake than a 48-month mistake.

 

[Law2Doc]

Will they forgive a low GPA or a low MCAT more?

You need to do well in both. Med school admissions isn't a one shot deal, and not a time to expect "foregiveness". If you have a high GPA and do really poorly on the MCAT you are expected to retake the MCAT. If you have a low GPA, you are expected to rehabilitate it with further study until it is at a competitive level. Many people start with one or the other of these stats low, and do not get admitted until they remedy the problem. The fact that the average age of medical school admission is significantly higher than 21 is suggestive of this fact. Either way, you also need competitive ECs, LOR and PS and need to then interview well too.

 

[BlondeCookie]

1 vote for the MCAT. GPAs are highly inflated at some schools. MCAT is standardized.

 

[bwells46]

Will they forgive a low GPA or a low MCAT more?

I know a few docs that used to be on med school adcoms and they thought that while the MCAT is probably a better measure that GPA, it's still a load of crap because it tests you on material you'll never need or use in medical school. One of those docs was saying he thought the only reason we keep the MCAT is to torment med school applicants .

 

[Avalanche21]

I know a few docs that used to be on med school adcoms and they thought that while the MCAT is probably a better measure that GPA, it's still a load of crap because it tests you on material you'll never need or use in medical school. One of those docs was saying he thought the only reason we keep the MCAT is to torment med school applicants .

A load of crap it may be, but that doesn't appear to stop schools from using it to screen people...

 

[MoosePilot]

It seems to me that, in general, it is easier to rectify an MCAT score than to rectify a GPA. A <3.0 undergrad GPA carries 120+ credits with it, and even 120 post-bac credits (four more years!!!) can only boost that to <3.5. Most people in a low-MCAT situation should be able to take an MCAT course or even three for far less $$ than post-bac, and in less time than a post-bac, and then turn their score around.

No experience to back this up, just seems easier to correct a 6-month mistake than a 48-month mistake.

I agree that if you're going to be able to bring up your MCAT, then it won't take that much time. 6 months tops of quality preparation.

Some people won't ever be able to, though. There's much more of a ceiling on MCAT than on GPA. You can generally work harder, improve your study skills, and improve your grades. I'd say most people top out on the MCAT below where they want to, though.

 

[bwells46]

A load of crap it may be, but that doesn't appear to stop schools from using it to screen people...

I never claimed it did - I was just repeating what I've heard from former members of medical school admissions committees

 

[visualwealth]

GPA means a lot more b/c it is something you can list on your CV!! That is, if you graduate with the highest distinction(summa cum laude) or manga... It is something you will always have, and can always brag about.The MCAT on the other hand is just a barrier you cross to get into med school.

 

[Centinel]

GPA means a lot more b/c it is something you can list on your CV!! That is, if you graduate with the highest distinction(summa cum laude) or manga... It is something you will always have, and can always brag about.The MCAT on the other hand is just a barrier you cross to get into med school.

*manga* - ahahaha


Also, at some schools summa and magna are awarded to an inordinate number of students, so those don't necessarily mean anything at this point.

 

[TexasFool]

I’m just drawing conclusions on what I read and heard before.
To sum up everything so far:

GPA shows that you are willing to work hard.

MCAT shows that you are smart enough to understand the material you learned the last couple of years and apply the material in a more mature way than just simple regurgitation. The MCAT also shows that your GPA reflects your knowledge if you have a high GPA.

A low GPA and no up trend and high MCAT shows that you are smart and lazy and probably won’t do well in med school.
A low GPA and a sharp up trend and high MCAT shows that you are smart, and now that you are mature you are willing to put in the effort and will probably do very well in medical school.

A high GPA and low MCAT shows that you are a hard worker, but you might not be able to think fast enough, or maintain you knowledge well enough to do well in medical school.

I have a friend in med school right now that said the people run out of time on tests because they are trying to prep you for boards. I think the MCAT is an important test; I just wanted to see what everyone else thought.

 

[63768]

it can go either way.

a low GPA with a high MCAT means you're a smart person that underachieves and doesn't work that hard in school.

a high GPA with a low MCAT may indicate less intelligence but hard-working.

this is what i've heard from adcoms. it doesn't mean that everyone with these scores fits into this profile, but i think that's the general opinion or first impression from reading a file. i think it's best for both scores to be correlated but for people with a low GPA, this is kinda tough haha.

 

[Jbienven]

Well, what about these stats?

I have a 3.3 cummulative GPA in Neuroscience at Tulane.

My freshman GPA: 3.02
My Sophomore GPA: 3.19
My Junior GPA: 3.67

My Science is a 3.3, my Major GPA is a 3.7

I made a 34P on the MCAT (13 ps/ 11 vr / 10 bs)

I'm applying to LSU-NO (3.6 / 28 average).

Is this attractive to the adcom? I have 2 years of research, volunteering, and leadership stuff.

I'm just worried about my GPA.

anyone?

 

[tgerwuds]

I’m just drawing conclusions on what I read and heard before.
To sum up everything so far:

GPA shows that you are willing to work hard.

MCAT shows that you are smart enough to understand the material you learned the last couple of years and apply the material in a more mature way than just simple regurgitation. The MCAT also shows that your GPA reflects your knowledge if you have a high GPA.

A low GPA and no up trend and high MCAT shows that you are smart and lazy and probably won’t do well in med school.
A low GPA and a sharp up trend and high MCAT shows that you are smart, and now that you are mature you are willing to put in the effort and will probably do very well in medical school.

A high GPA and low MCAT shows that you are a hard worker, but you might not be able to think fast enough, or maintain you knowledge well enough to do well in medical school.

I have a friend in med school right now that said the people run out of time on tests because they are trying to prep you for boards. I think the MCAT is an important test; I just wanted to see what everyone else thought.

Sorry dude or dudette. You could not be more wrong. I hate to say it but those are just generalizations and do not necessarily apply to everyone - or even the majority. There are many more variables in the equation.

However, I would say that the MCAT score is probably more important. Sorry to stress out whomever requested that info.

 

[gujuDoc]

Well, what about these stats?

I have a 3.3 cummulative GPA in Neuroscience at Tulane.

My freshman GPA: 3.02
My Sophomore GPA: 3.19
My Junior GPA: 3.67

My Science is a 3.3, my Major GPA is a 3.7

I made a 34P on the MCAT (13 ps/ 11 vr / 10 bs)

I'm applying to LSU-NO (3.6 / 28 average).

Is this attractive to the adcom? I have 2 years of research, volunteering, and leadership stuff.

I'm just worried about my GPA.

anyone?

Yes you have a shot.

For one, you showed an upward trend. For two, you did well on the MCAT.

For three, you have decent ECs, and I'm assuming will have good LORs.

And for four, you are applying early. So I think you have a shot at a state school. You said you are from Louisiana right?? I'd apply to both LSU campuses and Tulane as well as some out of state schools.

Rosalind Franklin, SLU, Drexel, NYMC, Albany, are a few examples of schools I'd apply to. But search around and see.

Oh and as per your GPA issue, if you don't get in this cycle then do a Special Master's program at somewhere like BU or georgetown and do real well in it. That will get you in somewhere most likely. But do that if nothing works out this cycle.

 

[gujuDoc]

GPA means a lot more b/c it is something you can list on your CV!! That is, if you graduate with the highest distinction(summa cum laude) or manga... It is something you will always have, and can always brag about.The MCAT on the other hand is just a barrier you cross to get into med school.

In the real world, most people don't get their job offers based on their GPA so much as their actual work experience. GPA is only important to getting into professional schools etc.

But for something like engineering, business, etc, it is more important that you have internships and experiences that show that you can do the work then that you have a 4.0 but never held an internship. That's what I saw with my brothers and many other people I've talked to over the years.

With med school, we get that experience in 3rd/4th year, internship, and residency. But we need the GPA to get to med school. For people not planning on doing higher degrees outside of a bachelor's, GPA may be important but not half as important as having real life job experiences that show they can handle the position they are interviewing for.

When my brother graduated with his engineering degree, he couldn't get to many jobs because he hadn't done any internships etc and all the jobs required several years of experience in the chem eng field. But other people with slightly lower gpa's but with internships were getting jobs left and right. So I disagree with the importance you place on Suma Cum Laude etc.

 

[Dr.Pdizzle]

Because I've seen it happen before. I kid you not.

So yes, believe it or not, it has happened.

GPA and MCAT don't have a super strong correlation as you would like to believe it does.

So yes it does happen as hard as it is to believe it. I didn't want to believe that it would be true either.

So, yes, it is possible to have a 3.8-4.0 and fail the MCAT because the MCAT is a typical standardized test that requires part knowledge, part test taking skills, part timed test taking skills to be exact.

I don't mean to harp here on anyone, but seriously read what I actually posted before responding. I said, "I take issue with your example. I don't know the exact statistics of it, but I can't imagine either case you are describing is all that common." I did not say it doesn't happen, that I have never heard of it happening, or that it isn't feasible. I said I don't think it's all that common, at least not as common as some of people like to think. I'm willing to bet that people that actually did well in their courses will actually do well on the MCAT, moreso than the example you paint for us that the reverse is true. I could go ahead and give lots of my friends and my own scores for proof of this, but that is all relative and not substantiated data.

But that's just it, that's what I think, I don't have facts to back this up. On the flipside, I have yet to see any facts that support this frequent occurance of people with stellar grades getting poor MCAT scores and at the same time people with poor grades getting superb MCAT scores.

On a side note, I too agree with the other person saying that a poor MCAT score would be a lot easier to rectify than a poor gpa. You can't change 120 credits of lackluster effort overnight, for a poor MCAT score, you just have to wait till August to retake it.

I hope I don't come off as attacking you personally guju, if so those aren't my intentions and I apologize. I just felt as if I was being misinterpreted and I feel that a lot of pre-meds, especially ones I know, are given a false sense of security by having great MCAT scores and taking swan dives in the grade book.

 

[gujuDoc]

I know a few docs that used to be on med school adcoms and they thought that while the MCAT is probably a better measure that GPA, it's still a load of crap because it tests you on material you'll never need or use in medical school. One of those docs was saying he thought the only reason we keep the MCAT is to torment med school applicants .

Was this a Florida school????????? Because if so, I hate to inform you but let's start by looking at each of the major MD schools in Florida.

UF: I've had friends with very very strong GPAs and 27 MCATs who've been told not to even bother turning in their secondary because their MCAT wasn't high enough. Most of the people that got in their either had 3.8 and 28, in which that is not too different then a 3.8 and 31 because 27-28 and greater is where most state or lower tier med schools are ok with things provided that a 27 is more like 10 9 8 or 9 9 9 rather then 6 11 10 as a breakdown.

But you get my point. I can say that of those accepted to UF that I personally know........ very few had a 27-28 range MCAT. Maybe less then 5 people. The rest had above the average for their school (31.75 = avg), with ranges of 32-35+

A good percentage of those people had 3.0 Overall GPAs and 4.0 Postbac gpa's. Meanwhile, people with both 3.8 and 33 MCATs were put on hold never to hear back. What all those who were accepted told me was that an upward trend in GPA coupled with a high MCAT did the trick for them. Here we are assuming equal ECs.

Others with more stellar GPAs and slightly lower MCATs did not get in and were told not to put in a secondary unless they met certain scores.

USF: We pretty much have cutoffs. If you don't have at least a 24, you will automatically not be considered. 25-26 you still have a fighting chance even if it is very slim. 27 and over and you are ok. Just try to keep your subscores even as possible. No lower then a 7. Some excptions have been made in the Verbal area because of people not having Eng as first lang etc.

Umiami: No cut offs.

FSU, prefers people to have no lower then a 8 in a given section if possible.

A greater percentage of the people that are forced to go to the Carribbean are forced to do so not because they couldn't bring their GPA up, but because they couldn't bring their MCAT scores up.

A person with a 3.0 and 40 is more likely to be better then a person with a 3.9 and a 18 MCAT. And believe it or not, there are people who do have a 3.8 or 3.9 and can't seem to bring their MCAT score up. So good GPA does not always equate out to good MCAT scores. I know of a few people who were forced to consider Carribbean schools because they couldn't bring their MCAT scores up even though their GPA was high. So assuming the rest of the profile is the same in terms of level of clinical experience, ECs, LORs, good interviews, etc...........

If it came down to the numbers and the person with a 3.0 was someone that showed a strong upward trend and was able to hack a good score, and a person with a higher GPA but who couldn't even get near the averages, most likely they'd choose the person with the higher MCAT score.

So to reiterate what someone said earlier:

The MCAT won't guarantee your acceptance. But it will KEEP YOU OUT. If you can't get in the 23+ range at least. For DO schools, things are slightly different but even there...........Most DO schools are now striving for a minimum of at least 21.

 

[visualwealth]

what we can all agree with is if you have both you are on easy street! 3.8+ 33+ will get you in somewhere and you might even get a nice finantial aid package

 

[gujuDoc]

what we can all agree with is if you have both you are on easy street! 3.8+ 33+ will get you in somewhere and you might even get a nice finantial aid package

Very true!!!!!! Both are important.

At the end of the day, if one is lacking it is your best interest to do your best to bring up the one that is lacking to make sure everything is up to par.

 

[gluon999]

I'm sorry, the verb you were looking for is 'deflated'. Better luck next time!

Negative. Are you familiar with inflation at Harvard? If not, you might want to google it.

 

[bwells46]

Was this a Florida school????????? Because if so, I hate to inform you but let's start by looking at each of the major MD schools in Florida.

Hey,

No, none of these guys were on the adcom of Florida schools. They were all up in the NE.

Also, the docs I know are no longer on the adcoms. Their comments are the comments of old docs looking back on the admissions process. They, of course, considered the MCAT while they were on the committee.

 

[CTG]

It seems to me that there is no foolproof answer. Both are definitely important, but there are extenuating circumstances. Basically, if you're lacking in one facet, you're at a disadvantage. There are so many factors that go into the med school admissions process, and every school is different. It's very hard to generalize...therefore, arguing about it won't accomplish anything...

 

[gluon999]

Are you familiar with inflation in the United States? It's devastating if it happens too quickly. Thank God for monetary policy.

Ran out of fuel? Lets get back to talking about grades and GPA.

 

[gujuDoc]

Hey,

No, none of these guys were on the adcom of Florida schools. They were all up in the NE.

Also, the docs I know are no longer on the adcoms. Their comments are the comments of old docs looking back on the admissions process. They, of course, considered the MCAT while they were on the committee.

Oh ok. I think at the end of the day both are important, but the MCAT will knock you out of the water even if you have a good strong GPA, while a slightly lower GPA may not knock you out of the running if you have a strong MCAT and upper trend in grades and can explain why you got a lower GPA and what you did to repair the damage.

 

[CTG]

It seems to me that there is no foolproof answer. Both are definitely important, but there are extenuating circumstances. Basically, if you're lacking in one facet, you're at a disadvantage. There are so many factors that go into the med school admissions process, and every school is different. It's very hard to generalize...therefore, arguing about it won't accomplish anything...