What Kind of an SMP GPA would one ideally need to have a shot at MD schools?

[MedicallyEnthused]

Hello All,

As the 1st semester in my SMP is coming to an end, I was wondering what sort of overall GPA I would want for my SMP before applying to med school (I intend to apply next cycle).

My 1st semester has been a bit of a struggle, so It looks like I'll be getting only a 3.51 GPA (14 credits).
Everyone tells me the spring semester is much more manageable, and so I feel confident that I can bring my overall GPA to around 3.65+ (over 28 credits).
Would that be enough to have a shot for MD (assuming a competitive MCAT >512, which I will be taking the summer when I apply)?

I should also note that current M1 (who did this SMP) and many professors who teach both to the SMP and med students have told me this SMP is a bit more difficult than the 1st year of med school. Not sure if this holds any weight, but the program is very well known.

My undergrad gpa probably matters, even with an SMP. So my uGPA is below 3.0, but my last 2 years (of a DIY Postbacc) are at a 3.71 (58 credits).
Overall (including my pbGPA), my uGPA is at a 2.72 sGPa and 2.92 cGPA (total 215 credits and 2 BS degrees).

As for Extracurriculars / LORs / Personal Statement, I feel like those are pretty competitive.
I am just missing research, which I will be starting in August (and intend to put as a future activity on my app).

Also, how many med schools should I plan to apply to next cycle?
Right now I'm thinking somewhere in the neighborhood of 80-100, a mix of MD and DO, but mostly MD.
I know this is an insane number, but I just want to make sure I get in somewhere my 1st try, as I will be 31 when I apply.
I also have FAP, which helps with costs a little, part of the reason why I'm applying to so many schools.

Thank you very much and any input/advice is much appreciated.

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[Goro]

3.7+

 

[Mr.Smile12]

80 to 100 schools is a complete waste of money, especially if you are coming out of a SMP. You need a better strategy. Do not go over the FAP limit. If you are thinking about 100 schools, you make me question whether you really need FAP.

Your SMP faculty should be advising you on timing your MCAT and schools they have had success with given your performance. You pay them to help you get to medical school after all, provided you keep your end of the deal.

 

[MedicallyEnthused]

3.7+

Would being slightly below a 3.7 still be doable for MD (given a solid MCAT score and the fact the last 2 years of my undergrad were 3.71)?
I am trying to be realistic, and it seems more likely that ill end up somewhere around 3.65-3.67 based on my calculations.

80 to 100 schools is a complete waste of money, especially if you are coming out of a SMP. You need a better strategy. Do not go over the FAP limit. If you are thinking about 100 schools, you make me question whether you really need FAP.

Your SMP faculty should be advising you on timing your MCAT and schools they have had success with given your performance. You pay them to help you get to medical school after all, provided you keep your end of the deal.

What is the FAP limit? All you really get is 20 free schools, which is kind of low number to apply to, even for those with competitive GPAs.
My thinking was that med school apps is a numbers game, so more apps = better chance (of course I would still be strategic on which schools to actually apply to). I was even going to start pre-writing secondaries over winter break before I apply next cycle.

FAP is mainly based on my parents income, but I was going to use my extra loan money + some savings for applications. This is why I would be able to do so many (also since most school waive secondaries fees for FAP participants).
So if 80+ is too many, how many schools would you recommend that I apply to?

My SMP has advised us to take the MCAT somewhere around end of June to mid July, which is when I plan to do so. This will be my 2nd take, but many people coming out of the program seem to do quite well on it.

As for my GPA, I am only projecting what I think I will achieve due to my 1st semester performance so far. I can't really ask for much advice, until I have grades on my transcript though (but I will probably reach out after the fall semester is over). That being said, my SMP does advertise that people who have gotten 3.5+ in the program have around a 85% chance of acceptance to med school (this probably is for both MD and DO though). They also have a list of all the schools people have gotten accepted in the last 5 years.

 

[Mr.Smile12]

Would being slightly below a 3.7 still be doable for MD (given a solid MCAT score and the fact the last 2 years of my undergrad were 3.71)?
I am trying to be realistic, and it seems more likely that ill end up somewhere around 3.65-3.67 based on my calculations.




What is the FAP limit? All you really get is 20 free schools, which is kind of low number to apply to, even for those with competitive GPAs.
My thinking was that med school apps is a numbers game, so more apps = better chance (of course I would still be strategic on which schools to actually apply to). I was even going to start pre-writing secondaries over winter break before I apply next cycle.

FAP is mainly based on my parents income, but I was going to use my extra loan money + some savings for applications. This is why I would be able to do so many (also since most school waive secondaries fees for FAP participants).
So if 80+ is too many, how many schools would you recommend that I apply to?

My SMP has advised us to take the MCAT somewhere around end of June to mid July, which is when I plan to do so. This will be my 2nd take, but many people coming out of the program seem to do quite well on it.

As for my GPA, I am only projecting what I think I will achieve due to my 1st semester performance so far. I can't really ask for much advice, until I have grades on my transcript though (but I will probably reach out after the fall semester is over). That being said, my SMP does advertise that people who have gotten 3.5+ in the program have around a 85% chance of acceptance to med school (this probably is for both MD and DO though). They also have a list of all the schools people have gotten accepted in the last 5 years.

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I am interested in what their advice is for you. Most of us know there is diminishing returns after 30 schools (some have seen it diminish with 20, which is why the FAP limit was established).

You need to ask the hard question: given your performance in their program and your background, what schools do they feel would be best fits with you. Do they base their advice on where students have gotten A's?

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You are right to give yourself time to pre-write your secondaries. One's brain usually goes crazy after 25-30 applications to write or edit essays for. Not everyone will change their prompts in the summer except for the ones we know who do.

Time is your most precious commodity followed by your energy to prepare your app and your MCAT. prioritize properly or your effort could be subpar and jeopardize your chances for success.

 

[MedicallyEnthused]

How Much Does it Cost to Apply to Medical School? - SDN

The Student Doctor Network provides free tools, resources, and advising services to help students become health professionals.

www.studentdoctor.net

I am interested in what their advice is for you. Most of us know there is diminishing returns after 30 schools (some have seen it diminish with 20, which is why the FAP limit was established).

You need to ask the hard question: given your performance in their program and your background, what schools do they feel would be best fits with you. Do they base their advice on where students have gotten A's?

Medical School Application Secondary Essays - SDN

The Student Doctor Network provides free tools, resources, and advising services to help students become health professionals.

www.studentdoctor.net

You are right to give yourself time to pre-write your secondaries. One's brain usually goes crazy after 25-30 applications to write or edit essays for. Not everyone will change their prompts in the summer except for the ones we know who do.

Time is your most precious commodity followed by your energy to prepare your app and your MCAT. prioritize properly or your effort could be subpar and jeopardize your chances for success.

Well most people I've know, who had a sub 3.0 uGPA (with upward trend, postbacc, SMP, etc) applied to 60+ schools.
I just wanted even more to maximize my chances as to avoid any possible reapplication cycles. I will seek advice to what my program advisor thinks about number of schools as well, but I really do feel like it is a numbers game (ie you have a better shot with 80 schools, rather than 40 schools).
I have never applied to med school before, so I can't really say if there are diminishing returns after x number, but you may be right.

I also calculated it out, it should cost me around $2500 for 80 school (with FAP), as secondaries fees are mostly waived with FAP.

I haven't really formulated much of a school list yet, but I was going to look for schools that fit me in a few ways:
-Mission fit.
-My PB / SMP GPA close to their median (or at the very least above 10%ile).
-My MCAT close to their median (or at the very least above 10%ile).
-Schools where people from my program have historically been accepted to.
-Schools that are more non-trad friendly.
-Schools that have no 3.0 GPA screen (or screen for more recent credits) or have a screen with some wiggle room.
-State Schools that are in my state of residence, my SMP state, and in the State that I have strong ties to.

I don't think I'll get into my SMP school, as they are a T40 school and have quite high median stats, but I still plan to apply anyways (because you never know).

I know Goro answered this, but can I get your opinion on my potential SMP GPA? I am a little worried, but feel like I can manage around a 3.65-3.67. I know this is slightly below a 3.7, but would I still have a chance for MD with this SMP GPA (given all other parts of my app, including MCAT, are solid). Or is anything below a 3.7 seen as a red flag for MD?

Again, thank you for the advice.

 

[Mr.Smile12]

It is a numbers game, but it also is about what support your SMP will give you when you apply.

My point is that your FAP will not save you TIME. If all 80 secondary portals open in the same week in June or July, can you finish them all by the end of July? You said you had an MCAT to schedule around that time too. Do you really want to apply without knowing your official MCAT score or take PREVIEW or CASPER? I just wanted to be sure you really had a plan on this.

 

[MedicallyEnthused]

It is a numbers game, but it also is about what support your SMP will give you when you apply.

My point is that your FAP will not save you TIME. If all 80 secondary portals open in the same week in June or July, can you finish them all by the end of July? You said you had an MCAT to schedule around that time too. Do you really want to apply without knowing your official MCAT score or take PREVIEW or CASPER? I just wanted to be sure you really had a plan on this.

I really have planned this out. I already pushed my app back a year (I was originally going to apply after my postbacc, before my SMP, but ended up deciding not to and canceled my MCAT last summer).

But I feel confident enough to know that my future MCAT score will be good enough to go ahead with my application. I say this because of how intense this program is. If I continue the same style of studying (as well as the fact that the bio/biochem section won't need much content review), the MCAT shouldn't be an issue.
Many of the 2nd year students in my program that I have spoken to, who got around 3.6-3.7 GPA, have all gotten over a 514+ MCAT.
The director of our SMP program has also told us that many people have gotten 515+ in just 2 months following the 1st year of the program.

That being said, simply for verification, I will start off with a throw away school and add more as my practice exam scores get to where I want to be (or possibly how I felt on test day). I just can't wait until I get my actual score back from the real thing, because that will be a bit late in the game.

In terms of time commitment, I was going to pre-write as many as I could over winter break. Focus on my spring semester classes, than focus on my MCAT from mid May-mid July. After that, I would focus on secondaries like its a full time job. I know this is not ideal, but have been told most schools won't review my app until they get my MCAT score anyways. So the only secondaries I should be getting are from schools that automatically send them (which is where i will focus my pre-writing to start).

As for PREVIEW and CASPER, I have taken CASPER before and got 4th quartile (with minimal prep). I took it because one of the SMPs i applied to required it. I never have taken PREVIEW though.

Really my only real concern is having below a 3.7 SMP GPA, but above 3.65 (most likely).

 

[chilly_md]

Do not make assumptions about your MCAT score and do not apply to such a large number of schools. You will need to apply to DO schools as a reinventor and not just to a few amongst many MD schools.

It is not a numbers game in respect to it being random chance. You will be throwing money away if you apply to 60-80. To get to that number, you would have to include schools that would not consider OOS students or are research powerhouses and do not take students who needed an SMP. Those would have been a waste of your time and money.

 

[MedicallyEnthused]

Do not make assumptions about your MCAT score and do not apply to such a large number of schools. You will need to apply to DO schools as a reinventor and not just to a few amongst many MD schools.

It is not a numbers game in respect to it being random chance. You will be throwing money away if you apply to 60-80. To get to that number, you would have to include schools that would not consider OOS students or are research powerhouses and do not take students who needed an SMP. Those would have been a waste of your time and money.

I'm not really making assumption on my MCAT, I just know that I will have enough time to study in order to achieve a good score. That being said, I will base my application off my practice exam scores, since I won't have my actual score back until early to mid august.
I just can't see myself postponing applying another year, so underperforming on the MCAT is really not an option for me.

Of course I will still be applying to a decent amount of DO schools (I was thinking around 15 regardless to how many MD schools I end up applying to).
I just really am hoping for an MD acceptance, but I understand beggars can't be choosers.
As for number of schools, maybe closer to 60 is more appropriate.
It is just that I have seen many other students in similar situations as me applying to around 80.
So I'm starting to question the number of applications I should submit.

But regardless of the number of schools I apply to, I will be applying strategically to schools that I have some kind of chance at.
So I'm not randomly applying to schools like you imply.

 

[deleted1133766]

The short answer is..."it all depends."

A 3.0 in my SMP will get you into some of the top DO programs based on the success of the class so far. The exam averages during the first year of our program hovered in the 82-85 range. I can guarantee you most of the class was nowhere at 3.5

Like I said...it all depends on the SMP program an, the schools you apply to, and your application strategy.

 

[chilly_md]

Of course I will still be applying to a decent amount of DO schools (I was thinking around 15 regardless to how many MD schools I end up applying to).
I just really am hoping for an MD acceptance, but I understand beggars can't be choosers.
As for number of schools, maybe closer to 60 is more appropriate.
It is just that I have seen many other students in similar situations as me applying to around 80.
So I'm starting to question the number of applications I should submit.

But regardless of the number of schools I apply to, I will be applying strategically to schools that I have some kind of chance at.
So I'm not randomly applying to schools like you imply.

Don’t make the same mistake others are making. And I assure you, if you are applying strategically, you should not end up with close to 60 MD schools.

I wish you luck on the MCAT, but do keep in mind that many people have as much time as you to prepare, but end up with lower scores than what they got on their practice tests. The schools that someone should apply to with a real score of 512 is vastly different than that of their 516+ practice scores (as an example scenario).